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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (4 Viewers)

matuski said:
The NFL and the owner of his team have both said there isn't a problem with it.

So now we are talking about his freedoms as a citizen of this country, where being an idiot is something he is free to do.  

I can see the distinction if you want to have the NFL or his team make him stand.. but that seems ridiculous none-the-less.
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Yeah ... I'm not so sure the 49ers can legally cut him because of this.  Like you said, he has the right to do this and the team and NFL have both stated it's a non-issue.  If he gets cut (and I think he will), it will be for his ineffectiveness as an NFL QB.  At least, that is what the 49ers will say.

 
WheelsUp said:
In the same country that people defend their right to own a gun to hurt people, they criticize this man for utilizing his freedom of speech and right to protest to save people and bring awareness. Think about that long and hard and wonder why so many people are bitter. After you realize the racism behind that, maybe you people against a football player for not standing for the National Anthem will finally understand why he isnt standing. Its not disrespect for the military in anyway, I say this as a vet.

The excuses and hate coming for Kaep are those who do not want to talk about this issue and are not what I fought for.

I am a white man and am a retired Sgt Major of our US army and led many men in the military.. I will not allow anyone to use this issue as a farce to say that he doesnt care about the military as many of my brothers and sisters come home and are forgotten about by those same people. I will not hold a mans right that we fought for, against him. This is the thing I keep hearing "The military fought for that flag" and yes we did. But with that flag comes rights, a right Kaep has is his freedom of speech, the same right you have to avoid the issue and criticize him. Do not use this issue as a scapegoat on people not caring about the military. I have seen many people with flags on their car and bumper stickers with support for the military drive by many vets on the road as they ask for help that our country does not give them.

So cut the excuses and look at the issue, now discuss that. So many less fortunate to come back home fought for these rights, so if you are going to us us as a reason, you better hear what some of us have to say. I am nothing special, to be clear about my posts intentions, it is to just point out if you are going to use the military as the excuse better understand how some of us feel. And some of us feel that if you dont use the rights we fought for, what is the point of fighting?
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I am also a veteran and I also despise racism.  I do what I can to combat it on a daily basis.  With that said, I am so sick and tired of hearing the argument that he is simply exercising his rights that we in the military fought for.  We all have the right to do things that are disrespectful but legal.  However, the majority of us refrain from such behavior because we understand that those actions hurt other human beings.  These types of protests remind me of the bats**t crazy church that protests at funerals.  Do they have the right to do it?  Of course.  Should they?  Absolutely not.

And please do not even for one second insinuate that because I despise what Kap is doing, that somehow makes me a racist.  This is the exact mis-use of the race card that has set the war on racism back decades in this country.  And before you say that isn't what you said, read this again:

"In the same country that people defend their right to own a gun to hurt people, they criticize this man for utilizing his freedom of speech and right to protest to save people and bring awareness. Think about that long and hard and wonder why so many people are bitter. After you realize the racism behind that, maybe you people against a football player for not standing for the National Anthem will finally understand why he isnt standing."

 
It's really this simple.  CK has the 1st amendment right right to say whatever he wants.  However, others have the same right to comment/criticize/commend him.  People that are pissed off that others are criticizing him are being hypocritical.  It works both ways.

 
mikmak8902 said:
Yeah ... I'm not so sure the 49ers can legally cut him because of this.  Like you said, he has the right to do this and the team and NFL have both stated it's a non-issue.  If he gets cut (and I think he will), it will be for his ineffectiveness as an NFL QB.  At least, that is what the 49ers will say.
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You are 100% correct about that. If this was a good player making this statement and drawing this negative attention, they might try to ride it out. But a guy fighting for the number two QB position? Chip Kelly doesn't like this kind of nonsense. He was accused of being racist in Philadelphia for trading or cutting players who weren't "team guys' (and guys like Stephen A Smith thought that meant white or white-acting). So for a guy to be acting like this who has very limited NFL skills, I'd say his days are numbered. But they'll say it was all about the fit and the direction the team is going.

 
Mike Kachman said:
It's really this simple.  CK has the 1st amendment right right to say whatever he wants.  However, others have the same right to comment/criticize/commend him.  People that are pissed off that others are criticizing him are being hypocritical.  It works both ways.
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It depends what the criticism is, right?  If the criticism is that he shouldn't be allowed to do what he is doing, the hypocrisy goes the other way.

 
matuski said:
It depends what the criticism is, right?  If the criticism is that he shouldn't be allowed to do what he is doing, the hypocrisy goes the other way.
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I agree again.  He should be allowed to protest in this manner.  My argument is that I think he's wrong and a complete piece of ##### for doing so.  Forcing him to stand for the national anthem is just as wrong.  He needs to make that decision for himself.  The vast majority of NFL players stand and show respect.  I commend them for that.

 
I think CK could pick a better way to bring attention to his cause but if he wants to sit during the anthem, I have no real issue.  His bigger issues are that he is a distraction to his team and he just isn't a very good quarterback.

 
Mike Kachman said:
It's really this simple.  CK has the 1st amendment right right to say whatever he wants.  However, others have the same right to comment/criticize/commend him.  People that are pissed off that others are criticizing him are being hypocritical.  It works both ways.
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I don't think anyone's saying others don't have a right to criticize him. People are disagreeing with that opinion which is not the same.

 
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Not sure why people think what Kaepernick did had anything to do with the military.  It had nothing to do with the military and it is bizarre that some are trying to frame the argument against him with statements of how it is disrespectful specifically to soldiers.  The military does not own the national anthem and the suggestion that they have special rights to that song is kind of disrespectful to everyone else.  It's our National song, and just because some of us don't pick up a gun and go fight in hostile territories every time someone looks at us crosswise doesn't diminish the contributions that we make to society. If it was offensive, and I am not saying it was or wasn't (it wasn't), it was offensive to everyone regardless of their military status.

Besides, I think the NFL does enough to show "respect for the military" (going to a game is practically a military recruitment infomercial) that our vets, or anyone else, doesn't need to get into a twist because some marginally famous person made a very small protest during a song.

 
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So...  What does the playing of the anthem mean?  I suggest it means different things to different people.

 
Chaka said:
Not sure why people think what Kaepernick did had anything to do with the military.  It had nothing to do with the military and it is bizarre that some are trying to frame the argument against him with statements of how it is disrespectful specifically to soldiers.  The military does not own the national anthem and the suggestion that they have special rights to that song is kind of disrespectful to everyone else.  It's our National song, and just because some of us don't pick up a gun and go fight in hostile territories every time someone looks at us crosswise doesn't diminish the contributions that we make to society. If it was offensive, and I am not saying it was or wasn't (it wasn't), it was offensive to everyone regardless of their military status.

Besides, I think the NFL does enough to show "respect for the military" (going to a game is practically a military recruitment infomercial) that our vets, or anyone else, doesn't need to get into a twist because some marginally famous person made a very small protest during a song.
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Keep in mind much of that "respect and honor" was bought by the DoD. That practice was recently banned by the DoD and the NFL gave money back. If you felt insulted by Kap sitting during the anthem, you should be about 1000x more angry about the NFL charging millions of dollars to pay tribute to fallen soldiers. 

 
he'll get cut long before his protest changes anything...maybe that's his desire out of all of this.  

It's well known that this kid is a punk and this stunt doesn't surprise me at all.  He got too much too fast...he'll be out of the league and completely irrelevant again soon enough so he may as well enjoy the press and attention while he can.

 
mikmak8902 said:
Yeah ... I'm not so sure the 49ers can legally cut him because of this.  Like you said, he has the right to do this and the team and NFL have both stated it's a non-issue.  If he gets cut (and I think he will), it will be for his ineffectiveness as an NFL QB.  At least, that is what the 49ers will say.
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Splitting hairs I guess, and I can't claim to be an expert, but my guess is that NFL players can be cut for any reason simply because teams don't even have to GIVE a reason.  In this case, his performance will make any questioning of the reasoning for the cut difficult at best.  But even if he was the best player in the league, they could still cut him if they wanted to and not say a word about why, even if it were obvious.

 
Tool said:
I don't think anyone's saying others don't have a right to criticize him. People are disagreeing with that opinion which is not the same.
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I think he's referring to people constantly pointing out his right to protest.  I don't think anyone on this board has said he doesn't have that right.

 
Holy Schneikes said:
Splitting hairs I guess, and I can't claim to be an expert, but my guess is that NFL players can be cut for any reason simply because teams don't even have to GIVE a reason.  In this case, his performance will make any questioning of the reasoning for the cut difficult at best.  But even if he was the best player in the league, they could still cut him if they wanted to and not say a word about why, even if it were obvious.
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It is really splitting hairs because if the 49ers cut Kap, you can be absolutely certain his protests factored into that decision, however, they will never admit that and it certainly will not be the reason given for his dismissal.

 
Ilov80s said:
Keep in mind much of that "respect and honor" was bought by the DoD. That practice was recently banned by the DoD and the NFL gave money back. If you felt insulted by Kap sitting during the anthem, you should be about 1000x more angry about the NFL charging millions of dollars to pay tribute to fallen soldiers. 
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Yup.  Our taxpayer dollars hard at work supporting those poor billionaire NFL owners.

 
mikmak8902 said:
I agree again.  He should be allowed to protest in this manner.  My argument is that I think he's wrong and a complete piece of ##### for doing so.  Forcing him to stand for the national anthem is just as wrong.  He needs to make that decision for himself.  The vast majority of NFL players stand and show respect.  I commend them for that.
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So if a person is a sheep then they are doing things that are commendable but if a person has a spine and is not afraid to go against the mass then they are a piece of ####. Interesting concept, however I'll disagree and proudly go buy a CK jersey as a Raiders fan to show my support for someone that has the balls to speak out on a real issue. I suggest you go read the full transcript of his interview as he is spot on.

 
mikmak8902 said:
The vast majority of NFL players stand and show respect.  I commend them for that.
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I would not be surprised if the vast majority are standing because they have been conditioned to for decades and because everyone else is standing. In reality I would bet that the vast majority have probably never given the reason behind it a second thought.  Same goes for the people in the stadium.

It seems like even those who have given it a little consideration view standing as a show of respect for the military, when it really is meant to honor our nation, which is comprised of, and great because of things other than just our military.  Although I cannot fault people for not seeing a difference between our nation and our military.

 
I'm a 48 year old white male.  I don't know anything about oppression. I'm being genuine in this statement.  I really won't judge anyone who chooses to quietly sit during the national anthem.  

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
So what specifically does he want changed so we can stand back up again?
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After sitting on the bench as the anthem was played before a Friday night exhibition against the Green Bay Packers (Kaepernick sat out The Star Stangled Banner in the Niners' two previous preseason games, too, when he wasn't in uniform) told NFL Network's Steve Wyche that he refused to “show pride in the flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.”

Referring to recent slayings of African-Americans by police that have sparked racial tensions, protests and other forms of backlash across the nation, which has historically tilted the scales of the criminal justice system so unfavorably against minorities, Kaepernick lamented that it would be selfish not to protest.

"There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder,” he said.

In the face of intense criticism, including some fans who have responded by burning his jersey, Kaepernick doubled down Sunday after a meeting in which the issue was discussed with teammates — and most supported his First Amendment right to express himself.

The embattled quarterback calmly spoke for roughly 20 minutes afterward, hardly afraid to face the heat or dodge the opportunity to explain himself in further detail. He maintained that he wanted to bring awareness to an issue. Mission accomplished.

“This country stands for liberty, freedom, justice for all,” he said. “And it’s not happening for all right now.”

 
CGRdrJoe said:
So if a person is a sheep then they are doing things that are commendable but if a person has a spine and is not afraid to go against the mass then they are a piece of ####. Interesting concept, however I'll disagree and proudly go buy a CK jersey as a Raiders fan to show my support for someone that has the balls to speak out on a real issue. I suggest you go read the full transcript of his interview as he is spot on.
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Showing national pride and respect for the flag, the anthem, and your country isn't being a "sheep".  But feel free to go buy that jersey.  

I personally find it offensive that he is stating this country oppresses black people.

  "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color,"

I'm part of this country as well as hundreds of millions of others that do no such thing.  

 
mikmak8902 said:
Showing national pride and respect for the flag, the anthem, and your country isn't being a "sheep".  But feel free to go buy that jersey.  

I personally find it offensive that he is stating this country oppresses black people.

  "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color,"

I'm part of this country as well as hundreds of millions of others that do no such thing.  
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Here's the next line out of his mouth "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

There has always been issues between minorities and police but now technology is finally bringing this all to our televisions to witness and yet officers are still getting off at an alarming rate.

 
Tool said:
CGRdrJoe said:
Here's the next line out of his mouth "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

There has always been issues between minorities and police but now technology is finally bringing this all to our televisions to witness and yet officers are still getting off at an alarming rate.
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Yessir ... he's correct on that.  It's an absolute tragedy.  There is some serious reform needed in our law enforcement agencies.  And that is coming from someone who was an MP when I was in the military and I have many friends that are police officers.  But just as the entire country is not to blame for racism, neither is the entire field of law enforcement for the pure evil that is taking place in parts of America. 

 
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mikmak8902 said:
Yessir ... he's correct on that.  It's an absolute tragedy.  There is some serious reform needed in our law enforcement agencies.  And that is coming from someone who was an MP when I was in the military and I have many friends that are police officers.  But just as the entire country is not to blame for racism, neither is the entire field of law enforcement for the pure evil that is taking place in parts of America. 
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I don't think you have to blame every law enforcement officer for deaths they personally had nothing to do with. But it's clear that the way law enforcement is accomplished in America is structurally problematic for African-Americans. It's not just a few guys doing the wrong things.

 
gb the boards quote function failures.
 

But just as the entire country is not to blame for racism, neither is the entire field of law enforcement for the pure evil that is taking place in parts of America.
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True, and most of the outrage is still being focused on the police rather than the laws/courts that are protecting them from facing consequences for their actions. When I first heard about what CK did I was miffed but then I read his full post game interview transcript and my perception of who is and why he did it changed.

 
CalBear said:
I don't think you have to blame every law enforcement officer for deaths they personally had nothing to do with. But it's clear that the way law enforcement is accomplished in America is structurally problematic for African-Americans. It's not just a few guys doing the wrong things.
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Agreed.  Hence, the reason I said reform is needed.

 
CGRdrJoe said:
gb the boards quote function failures.
 

True, and most of the outrage is still being focused on the police rather than the laws/courts that are protecting them from facing consequences for their actions. When I first heard about what CK did I was miffed but then I read his full post game interview transcript and my perception of who is and why he did it changed.
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Fair enough.  I just don't think turning your back on the country you're trying to improve is the way to go about it.  What happened to doing positive things to promote change?  I don't know.  I'm entirely frustrated with the current racial climate in this country so I'm probably better off just commenting on WDIS threads. :)

 
mikmak8902 said:
Fair enough.  I just don't think turning your back on the country you're trying to improve is the way to go about it.  What happened to doing positive things to promote change?  I don't know.  I'm entirely frustrated with the current racial climate in this country so I'm probably better off just commenting on WDIS threads. :)
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I'm not sure I would call this turning your back on your country. Military members that are outside when the National Anthem or morning colors is being played are to stop what they are doing, face the flag and salute (in uniform). However we both know that there are plenty of those members that stand by the door at 759 and wait for colors to start playing at 8 and be over before leaving a building just so they don't have to stand out there and salute. Slightly different but not entirely as it's a conscious decision to avoid the national anthem.

 
CGRdrJoe said:
I'm not sure I would call this turning your back on your country. Military members that are outside when the National Anthem or morning colors is being played are to stop what they are doing, face the flag and salute (in uniform). However we both know that there are plenty of those members that stand by the door at 759 and wait for colors to start playing at 8 and be over before leaving a building just so they don't have to stand out there and salute. Slightly different but not entirely as it's a conscious decision to avoid the national anthem.
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Haha ... yes, you are absolutely correct.  However, I don't put that even in the same ballpark.  If you want a fair comparison, imagine someone in the middle of the parking lot when the morning colors are played and they choose to take a seat on the ground.  Staying inside is not showing disrespect as you are not actively being defiant of the tradition itself.

 
Bronco Billy said:
i see that we're still focused on solving the symptoms while the disease goes unchecked.  
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I was going to post something similar.  What is he doing to help the cause he supports?  OK....so he doesn't stand for the Anthem...everyone is talking about it....now what does he do to help? 

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
I was going to post something similar.  What is he doing to help the cause he supports?  OK....so he doesn't stand for the Anthem...everyone is talking about it....now what does he do to help? 
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or how do you know when the racism that he's protesting is addressed/improved? 

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
I was going to post something similar.  What is he doing to help the cause he supports?  OK....so he doesn't stand for the Anthem...everyone is talking about it....now what does he do to help? 
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Do you plan to do things beyond sitting during the national anthem, as far as activism?

CK: Yeah, most definitely. There are things that I have in the works right now that I’m working on to put together in the future and have come to fruition soon. Those are things that I’ll talk about as we get closer to those days.

 
Banger said:
or how do you know when the racism that he's protesting is addressed/improved? 
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This was my point earlier as well.  What are his measurable goals? 

CGRdrJoe said:
Do you plan to do things beyond sitting during the national anthem, as far as activism?

CK: Yeah, most definitely. There are things that I have in the works right now that I’m working on to put together in the future and have come to fruition soon. Those are things that I’ll talk about as we get closer to those days.
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Sounds like he didn't have a plan until he was asked this question.  Talk about vague.

 
Bronco Billy said:
The disease is a power block in this country whose best self interests lie in maintaining a minority underclass.  You want racism - that's where the elephant in that room lives. 
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Correct to a point.  I mean ... we did just have a black president for 2 terms.  But yes, there is a good old boy system in play in some facets of this country but that is dying a very slow death.  I'd like to see it sped up quite a bit as I'm sure you would as well.  There will always be more white men and women in power than black simply based on the fact that whites in america outnumber blacks 6 to 1 ... hence the term "minority".  However, the number of African-Americans in important, powerful positions is growing each year.  

 
Kap could have went to LA and helped the flood victims with $100,000 worth of food and water.

Kap could have done a LOT of things ... sitting for a 1 minute show of respect was the absolute LEASE he could do to make MAXIMUM amount of waves.

But perhaps he mistook those waves as positive, because they're only negative and KAP reinforces the perception that too many black people are thugs and want free stuff without earning anything. 

Fisher explains it best  

nation anthem and why

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
This was my point earlier as well.  What are his measurable goals? 

Sounds like he didn't have a plan until he was asked this question.  Talk about vague.
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The other option is to follow the herd & hope.  Doing nothing, I think, would be ineffective.

 
mikmak8902 said:
Haha ... yes, you are absolutely correct.  However, I don't put that even in the same ballpark.  If you want a fair comparison, imagine someone in the middle of the parking lot when the morning colors are played and they choose to take a seat on the ground.  Staying inside is not showing disrespect as you are not actively being defiant of the tradition itself.
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I think you need to assess your own personal take.  Some believe he was declining to participate, some believe he was flipping off America.

 
mikmak8902 said:
Correct to a point.  I mean ... we did just have a black president for 2 terms.  But yes, there is a good old boy system in play in some facets of this country but that is dying a very slow death.  I'd like to see it sped up quite a bit as I'm sure you would as well.  There will always be more white men and women in power than black simply based on the fact that whites in america outnumber blacks 6 to 1 ... hence the term "minority".  However, the number of African-Americans in important, powerful positions is growing each year.  
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The progressive movement has been goin on for decades......slowly but surely eating away at out constitution, and our society.......the liberal media keeps us fighting over emotional issues...

People jump on the bernie sanders bandwagon, thinking he will save the country........he's a ####### communist!

Unbelievable!  We are a nation of spoiled brats. And we're slowly but surely pissing it all away......that's what people should be fired up about!

 
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