Yeah, I was surprised by that. Not that no other teams would sign him, but I figured they'd chalk it up to the "distraction" angle. Then I remembered that NFL front offices are so conservative they make Tea Party rallies look like a Politburo meeting. Just ask Michael Sam.
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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Awesome
- Start date
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I think he addressed this directly, and said he felt so strongly about the issue he was willing to sacrifice his career.
CalBear
Footballguy
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
I wouldn't say he "sacrificed his career". He has already made an incredible amount of money and (should be) set for life.
If he was a 1st year player doing this, then I would say he sacrificed his career.
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Exactly. Plus, I'd hardly call it sacrificing your career when you were already at the point where you were on the roster bubble of a team with Blaine Gabbert as its starter.
theothervcruz
Footballguy
I'm curious if he would be doing this exact same thing 2 years ago - assuming the exact racial issues he is protesting at the present moment existed at that time - when he was the clear cut starter on a good Niners team and playing for a contract.
I'm not saying it's "convenient" for him to be doing it now but it's certainly less of a sacrifice when you are now backing up Blaine Gabbert on a bad Niners team and earned a boatload of $ last season and will earn a boatload of $ this season regardless of what happens thanks to his contract.
I'm not saying it's "convenient" for him to be doing it now but it's certainly less of a sacrifice when you are now backing up Blaine Gabbert on a bad Niners team and earned a boatload of $ last season and will earn a boatload of $ this season regardless of what happens thanks to his contract.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
I would take a liberal stance on what he's said, but I think part of the narrative has to be that he was probably done with this career months before he decided to take this stance. I think most QBs in his situation work something out with the Broncos. His motives seem to be to get his full paycheck for this year and move away from fb. He is more of an opportunist than someone with courage (again from a liberal but jaded viewpoint). If he can paint the picture as he was blackballed from the NFL, he can continue his celebrity without playing, similar to what Michael Sam did as the first openly gay (but still not a good enough player) to play in the NFL. I see non-fb, left of liberal friends of mine posting about him, and I cringe a little because he's not the best person to champion. It's possibly he's intentionally sabotaging his career more so than sacrificing.
mikmak8902
Footballguy
He's not sacrificing AS MUCH. Even though I despise his decision to not stand for the anthem, I'll give the guy enough credit to say he is still, at the very least, giving up $450k/yr over the next 5-7 years. He's 27yrs old and is probably good enough to hold a clipboard for the bottom 3rd of the league. The current minimum salary for an NFL QB is $450k. But in comparison to the $61M guaranteed he gets from his current contract plus the $10M he made last season plus the $4M he made on his rookie contract (total of about $75M), $2.5M isn't really giving up much.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
No one in the league will touch him with a 10 foot pole, because they don't want the PR headache that will result from the fan base back lash. He's done.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
See, I think it's the exact opposite. Starting QBs have a ton of leverage. To speak out when you're a bubble player is far riskier.
Let's assume a different counterfactual: Kaep never speaks out, but he still sucks at football and spends the season on the bench before getting released. You don't think a team would take a flier on him like the Browns did with RG3? At a minimum he could probably latch on somewhere as a backup and play a few more years.
Sure, he's in a better position than some UDFA rookie who's never made anything from football. But giving up a chance at 2-3 more years of even backup QB money is a real sacrifice, especially when it's the last time in your life you will ever have a chance to earn that kind of money.
I made my feelings on Kaepernick's actions clear in my earlier post from this morning. And none of us have any idea what's in his heart. But all the available information we have suggests he's doing this because he genuinely believes in it.
That can't be right. I thought his contract was basically a year-to-year deal disguised as a long-term one. My understanding is he gets $12M this year and then they can cut him with no further repercussions. So that would be $26M.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
rotoworld:
6/4/2014: Signed a seven-year, $126.97 million contract. The deal contains $61 million guaranteed, although only $13.073 was guaranteed at signing -- a $12,328,766 signing bonus, Kaepernick's 2014 base salary, and a $100,000 first-year workout bonus. Kaepernick's 2015-2017 base salaries are guaranteed only for injury. Kaepernick is eligible for annual $2 million per-game roster bonuses and offseason workout bonuses of $400,000 in years two through seven. 2016: $13.9 million, 2017: $16.5 million, 2018: $17 million, 2019: $18.8 million, 2020: $21 million, 2021: Free Agent
Just looked it up, and you're technically correct that his contract came with $61M in guarantees, but I was right that it's basically meaningless. So far he's only earned his 2015-16 salaries. The "guarantees" on his 2017 salary and (part of) his 2018 salary don't actually activate until April of those respective years, which is to say he's never going to sniff that money. He did get a $12M signing bonus, though, so I guess it's $38M?
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The reason why it's secondary is because it didn't make sense. You have a guy sitting because he feels like "black people and people of color are oppressed in this country"....he says this in a time where we have had a black, biracial president for 2-terms, 2 black attorney generals and a black secretary of homeland security. Oh, did I mention that he is a biracial millionaire because he can play a game? He chose to be a rebel without a cause or a point. People are now doing the same thing that BLM supporters do and that's making their point for them because the originators barely had a clue.
People have the nerve to mention him and Jackie Robinson or Muhammed Ali in the same sentence and it's a joke to compare their situations. CK (as far as Im aware) has done nothing previous to this to help the cause he feels so strongly about. His answer after he sat also was filled with nothing but vague answers about what he "has planned".
He's an idiot, plain and simple and if he feels so "oppressed" maybe he can head to Iraq to play football....if he could even make a team over there. Maybe next we can interview his parents (the ones who raised them) and they can give us some insight into what kind of oppression poor Colin was subjected to.
As far as his football relevance, he has none. His next step is marrying a Kardashian, if there's any left to marry, and getting a reality TV show.
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
WheelsUp said:
You are full of crap. What a nasty racist insult, and it just comes natural to you doesn't it?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Vick did his time and said all the right things and he was also more NFL relevant, CK is not. He's done IMO
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He was a big fan of Mr. Bentley and Tom Willis.squistion said:
Chaka
Footballguy
1) People are still talking about it so, still yes.
2) That's your issue. There are no laws enforcing behavior during the anthem there are Codes.
36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
I presume everyone here feels the same way about people who leave their hats on or don't put their hands over their hearts as they do about Kaepernick not standing. More likely you will refer to it as some form of a matter of degrees.
I displayed the code regarding the flag earlier (4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag). Look it up and note the use of the word "should" and not "shall" in both codes. That is a major distinction. There is no rule for enforcement or punishment, they're guidelines. It is what allows people to justify wearing clothing or use disposable napkins with the flag printed on them when both are considered things you should not do. I don't see the same outrage in those instances. So if you are allowed to do that and don't consider it an insult to the flag and the nation then shouldn't you have the same opinion about standing during the anthem? I doubt that most in here will agree because people love to be outraged, even if there is nothing justifiable to be outraged about as is the case with Kaepernick.
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mikmak8902
Footballguy
Well, right ... now that he has done what he has done. However, my point is to show what he would have made if he HADN'T done that. Still peanuts in comparison though. Just trying to be objective.
mikmak8902
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
mikmak8902
Footballguy
The word code is probably causing confusion. For those of us that were in the military, "code" and "law" meant exactly the same thing.
squistion
Footballguy
I would bet that he isn't. Teams are desperate for backup QBs even if they are mediocre (see Jimmy Clausen). This is not like the situation with Ray Rice in which RBs are a dime a dozen. Yesterday in the SP thread on Bridgewater and on social media people were discussing the possibility of the Vikes working out a deal with the 49ers for Kaep (as remote as that seems).
He has even gotten support from some veterans. The hashtag
Typical tweet from that hashtag:
Charles Bassett
My grandfather served so Rosa Parks could sit down. I served so
This will blow over eventually and he will get at least one shot as a backup.
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Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Black oppression and Fidel Castro (therefore Che Guevara)... Ya, he understands what he is talking about.
He'll be in the media begging to play for free and asking forgiveness like he's Ray Rice in two years.
He'll be in the media begging to play for free and asking forgiveness like he's Ray Rice in two years.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Even with the advancements that minorities have made throughout the years, they are still oppressed. To say otherwise is ignorant. Kaepernick's lineage, personal experiences and bank account are irrelevant.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
Are all of ya'll upset by Kaepernick also upset at Trump? Because Trump thinks America isn't great too.
VaTerp
Footballguy
I really appreciate this. Not that you complimented my post but your willingness to try and understand another perspective. As you said, we don't have to be in complete agreement on perspective, opinion, choices of action, etc. The world would be a terribly boring and complacent place if we did. But respecting other people and the willingness to attempt to undertand perspectives other than our own is sorely lacking in this country and a huge part of the problem. That's the beauty of diversity. Learning from and finding value in our differences. Be them race, gender, socio-economic status, religion, nationality, life experiences, personality, etc.mikmak8902 said:
Sadly, the internet and social media have taken us a step back in this regard. It is easier to believe than it is to think. And now people only seek and value opinions and "info" that support what they already believe, which we can all easily do online. Plenty of people have shared links to very thoughtful posts from veterans and others who have stated that while they do not agree with Kap's choice to sit for the anthem they respect his reasoning for doing so. But those posts have largely been ignored as people continue to spew the same ignorance.
A few other points I'd like to address before I attempt to focus any future comments I have in this thread on football.
-Many have referred to Kap's status as a millionaire, being bi-racial, and raised by white parents as if that makes his position any less legitimate. Well, if they actually listened to what he had to say he talked about his own experiences in dealing with this issue. And more importantly, he doesnt have to have been personally oppressed to speak out on social issues that affect many many people. By this terrible logic only slaves could have been abolitionist, only blacks living in the South could speak against Jim Crow, only children could speak out against child endangerment, only women could speak out against rape, and so on and so on. Some people actually have the capacity to empathize and speak on behalf of people other than themselves. The same hold true for the argument that b/c we elected a black president that somehow centuries of systemic racism have magically disappeared. People with this view simply do not understand historical facts or the context of systemic racism, I assume, because they've never had to deal with it and its never personally affected them. This again, speaks to people's inability and unwillingness to look outside of their own perspective.
-Secondly, I think the fact that so many find someone not standing for a song, no matter what song that is, more objectionable than some of the atrocities that go on in this country and aroud the world, really underscores the point that Kap was trying to make. If you find talking about racism and injustice more objectionable than racism and injustice themselves, then you are a huge part of the problem. There are many posters here that fit that description.
-Thirdly, if one conversation occured related to injustice in this country that would not have occured otherwise then I think Kaepernick's statement was a success. People can, and will, continue to run him through the mud to further whatever political points they want to make. His NFL career could be over, which again would be more due to his recent play, but that's a personal consequence that he apparently is fine with. I have low expectations for those conversations here on a board that is predominantly conservative white men, but there is some of that occuring here, and I've seen many, many more conversations on FB and other social media platforms where people with different perspective are engaging, where people are considering points of views they haven't before, and are learning from each other. I will take that as progress, no matter how slight it may be.
-Lastly, in regards to references to Ali, Jackie Robinson, Jim Brown and other athletes throughout history who have taken public stances on social issues. No, Kap is obviously not the athlete or the social justice figure that those men were. But let's remember how reviled those men were at the time of their actions. I have no doubt here that many of the same posters showing such disdain for Kap now would have been saying the same, if not worse, about those men then. I personally take Kap at his word, as I do most people, unless I have reason to believe otherwise. And again, while his decision to sit for the anthem is not I would personally emulate, I applaud him for the courage of his convictions, the reasoning he articulated, and for doing so knowing the damage it would do to him from a career and PR standpoint.
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mikmak8902
Footballguy
Exactly. As much as I don't appreciate his protest, he doesn't need to be oppressed himself to try to help. Yes, there is some question as to whether this is something he is sincere about, but not knowing for sure, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. If civil rights movements were restricted to oppressed individuals, MLK wouldn't have accomplished as much as he did. The country got behind him because it was the right thing to do. THE COUNTRY. The flag and the anthem represent the idea of a free country. The fact that he is refusing to acknowledge that, seems somewhat contradictory to me.
Manster
Footballguy
I tried to trade for Kaep in dynasty a few weeks ago. I figured with Chip, maybe he'd have one more good shot, and take advantage.......I offered a 2nd, and I'm sooooooo glad the other owner refused the offer.
Say what you want about his actions, but this feels like the beginning of the end of Kaeps NFL career to me.
Say what you want about his actions, but this feels like the beginning of the end of Kaeps NFL career to me.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Don't worry, he will be on your league's waiver wire soon and you can pick him up for free. Not sure what you will do with him however.
Gustavo Fring
Footballguy
Who's going to sign/trade for a guy who's legs no longer work to stand on? Boom. Patriots 1, Colin Kaepernick 0
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Semantics. The country isn't perfect and none are but go back just 40-50 years and you will see "oppressed black and people of color"...and the titles I mentioned above kind of don't get much higher in our country. Which trend is this oppression heading in? If this was such a bad place to be, maybe he should just leave. I'm sure there would be tons of people willing to take his place. Last time I checked there was a ton of soon to be oppressed people of color risking their lives to come to this horrible place and not leave....
HIs lineage, personal experiences and bank account most certainly are relevant. He has no clue what oppression is....at all, and that's because of his lineage, personal experiences and bank account.
It is what it is today. Make a blanket statement, no matter how stupid, and let others make your arguments for you....it's sad. But hey, he's "working on some things" to help.....:universaljerkoffmotion:
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Geez, I don't know...which is running for president and which is "working on some things"?
Chaka
Footballguy
Fair enough but we are not talking about military code. And I am guessing, no actually I am certain that a lot of the outrage is coming from non-military types who aren't exactly up to speed on the difference between laws* and guidelines as it relates to the flag and anthem.
*I don't believe there are any enforceable laws regarding the flag or anthem after the Flag Protection Act of 1989 was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. But don't quote me on that.
Chaka
Footballguy
Now if you want to dislike Kaepernick here is a legitimate reason:
Kaepernick goes vegan
You know who else didn't eat meat? Hitler.
#themoreyouknow
Kaepernick goes vegan
You know who else didn't eat meat? Hitler.
#themoreyouknow
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Nobody is talking about the core issues, only about Kap and disrespecting America and reinforces what people see in thug mentality. Anyone notice the NFL helmet has an American Flag on it? Every time he puts on that helmet, he put on the American Flag. Now what Kap? Play without a helmet ?
No laws to show signs of respect - its given because its deserved to be given.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Maybe after he's cut we can kick up the racist Chip Kelly rumors again?
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
You're just being obtuse.
I can only imagine your argument if it was made in the 60's. "The county isn't perfect and none are but go back 100 years and you will see 'oppressed black and people of color'.." back in 1865 they were slaves, now they get paid for a living. If they don't like that, maybe they should go back to work on the plantation." Just because things are better than they were 50 years ago doesn't mean that the struggle isn't still happening. I'm unsure if you are really arguing that having a black President means blacks are no longer oppressed? You can't be that stupid, can you?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I didn't say any of that but if you want to have a conversation with yourself have at it.
Dizzy
Footballguy
He's probably OK with that. Obviously his head is elsewhere. NFL QB may be the most difficult job in professional sports... his career may have been over for a while, and this all hints at why.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
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