Dynasty Kareem Hunt Cleveland Browns

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

58 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

I don't think anyone thought West wasn't going to see the field, of course he has a role. As someone who followed Ware very closely last year, I do think that role is going to be slightly larger than what some Hunt owners are expecting but it's not going to be large enough to give West any stand alone value.

 

I'd say that we largely agree.  If anyone was thinking Hunt was going to soak up all the RB work they're deluding themselves.

 

.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Bronco Billy

[Hot Sauce Guy 8,910]

Leave it to a chiefs offense to pee on my Cheerios a little bit right before the season starts. 

I still Think Hunt is the back to own, and it would have been foolish to assume he'd get every RB carry/reception - every team spells their players. 

Just depends on GL usage & % of snaps. Hunt should be the lead dog. 

Hard to say who the handcuff is - maybe safe to assume a 50-50 RBBC if Hunt goes down?  

[jon_mx 8,747]

There is hardly a running back in the league who is a lock to get the vast majority of touches.  Almost every back is trying to earn their touches every week and if they are not producing, teams have plan B.  Hunt is no David Johnson or LeVeon.  There will be weeks West gets half or more carries unless Hunt goes out there and dominates.  

[Jed 283]

Went 2.09 in my FFPC last night. The hype is palpable. 

[B. Nugget 8]

Did you guys draft him thinking he was going to get 100% of the touches? 

West is nothing special & Spiller is an injury prone 30 yr old, but they will get touches to keep the defense guessing and to give Hunt a breather and take a series or two...you know, basically what every other RB corps in the league does except for a few sure-fire workhorse studs.

Reid traded up for him, hand-picked him, had him splitting reps in practice and then named him the starter.

 

[Interseptopus 5,722]

46 minutes ago, B. Nugget said:

Did you guys draft him thinking he was going to get 100% of the touches? 

West is nothing special & Spiller is an injury prone 30 yr old, but they will get touches to keep the defense guessing and to give Hunt a breather and take a series or two...you know, basically what every other RB corps in the league does except for a few sure-fire workhorse studs.

Reid traded up for him, hand-picked him, had him splitting reps in practice and then named him the starter.

 

I think everyone was just drinking the kool aid so willingly that they failed to see Hunt is a rookie. And he has West behind him, who is nothing special but is serviceable. KC has run a RBBC in the last 1-2 years if I remember right... I think even Ware was giving up some carries.

 

I was starting to panic because I ran a few DD mocks and Hunt went round 2 in my league (granted, RB 12 or so, because it's a keeper league), but I was starting to consider drafting him in round 2... but now I'm thinking I can still get value as this West news comes out. 

[Chaka 6,241]

O/U 245 touches.

[Interseptopus 5,722]

1 minute ago, Chaka said:

O/U 245 touches.

I'd say slightly under but receptions could really amp up his value

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

5 minutes ago, Chaka said:

O/U 245 touches.

 

I'll take the over on that barring injury.

[Dr. Octopus 15,707]

People can not be legitimately worried about CJ Spiller, could they?

[mbuehner 624]

6 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

I'll take the over on that barring injury.

I'll bet on injuries if he gets anything remotely close to that amount of touches. Rookie needs an offseason in the weight room, he looks a lot smaller than advertised to me.

[Boone22 338]

16 minutes ago, Chaka said:

O/U 245 touches.

Last year Ware only got 247 touches in 16 games and he wasn't a rookie.

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

4 minutes ago, mbuehner said:

I'll bet on injuries if he gets anything remotely close to that amount of touches. Rookie needs an offseason in the weight room, he looks a lot smaller than advertised to me.

 

You're betting that he can't stand up to something on the order of 12 rushes and 4 catches a game for 16 games?  What brings you to that conclusion other than your perception of his size (meaning that everyone dealing with his height/weight has been lying to date if that's true)?

 

.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Bronco Billy

[matttyl 2,689]

2 minutes ago, Boone22 said:

Last year Ware only got 247 touches in 16 games and he wasn't a rookie.

Ware missed 2 full games.  Those 247 touches came in only 14 games.

Of note is that he only got over 20 carries one time.

[Chaka 6,241]

9 minutes ago, Boone22 said:

Last year Ware only got 247 touches in 16 games and he wasn't a rookie.

14 games. He was on pace for 282 touches (a little over 17/game).

[mbuehner 624]

1 minute ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

You're betting that he can't stand up to something on the order of 12 rushes and 4 catches a game for 16 games?  What brings you to that conclusion other than your perception of his size (meaning that everyone dealing with his height/weight has been lying to date if that's true)?

 

 

 

What brings me to that conclusion is that that is a lot of touches for a rookie that looks undersized to me? And we know people dealing with him has been lying considering he was listed as 6ft in college and 5'10 at the combine and right now he looks closer to 200 than to 215 he was at the combine.

Its no knock against him, like I said, I think he needs an offseason to put on some muscle.

[Ojaays 130]

14 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

I'd say that we largely agree.  If anyone was thinking Hunt was going to soak up all the RB work they're deluding themselves.

 

.

Many of those folks reside in this thread...

5 hours ago, jon_mx said:

There is hardly a running back in the league who is a lock to get the vast majority of touches.  Almost every back is trying to earn their touches every week and if they are not producing, teams have plan B.  Hunt is no David Johnson or LeVeon.  There will be weeks West gets half or more carries unless Hunt goes out there and dominates.  

I'll add Crowell, Gurley, McCoy, Howard, Ajai, Powell, Freeman(who just got paid, they'll use him a lot) , Hyde, and I'll even add Fournette and Cook to get more touches than Hunt.

1 hour ago, Jed said:

Went 2.09 in my FFPC last night. The hype is palpable. 

The hype is also stupid.

1 hour ago, B. Nugget said:

Did you guys draft him thinking he was going to get 100% of the touches? 

West is nothing special & Spiller is an injury prone 30 yr old, but they will get touches to keep the defense guessing and to give Hunt a breather and take a series or two...you know, basically what every other RB corps in the league does except for a few sure-fire workhorse studs.

Reid traded up for him, hand-picked him, had him splitting reps in practice and then named him the starter.

 

So you're the guy drafting Hunt in the 2nd round...  Thank you btw...

13 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

People can not be legitimately worried about CJ Spiller, could they?

People can be legitimately concerned about Hunt's situation in a 3 person rbbc...

6 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

You're betting that he can't stand up to something on the order of 12 rushes and 4 catches a game for 16 games?  What brings you to that conclusion other than your perception of his size (meaning that everyone dealing with his height/weight has been lying to date if that's true)?

 

.

I'm betting Hunt does not get 16 touches per game.

[Tyrion 33]

33 minutes ago, Chaka said:

O/U 245 touches.

Well Ware got 247 touches last year while missing one game and most of another.  I think that Hunt is superior to Ware so I would take the Over. 

[Dr. Octopus 15,707]

4 minutes ago, Ojaays said:

People can be legitimately concerned about Hunt's situation in a 3 person rbbc...

 

People can do anything they want I guess.

[Hot Sauce Guy 8,910]

11 minutes ago, Ojaays said:

Many of those folks reside in this thread...

I'll add Crowell, Gurley, McCoy, Howard, Ajai, Powell, Freeman(who just got paid, they'll use him a lot) , Hyde, and I'll even add Fournette and Cook to get more touches than Hunt.

The hype is also stupid.

So you're the guy drafting Hunt in the 2nd round...  Thank you btw...

People can be legitimately concerned about Hunt's situation in a 3 person rbbc...

I'm betting Hunt does not get 16 touches per game.

Seems like an unfounded set of opinions based on presumption at best. 

The Chiefs rotated in RBs with Ware as the lead back last year. He got plenty of touches. 

Of course the Chiefs will use West & Spiller. But if you're "betting" Hunt doesn't get 16 touches a game, you'd be pretty foolish. 

There is no legitimate concern over a "3-way RBBC" because there isn't a 3-way RBBC. Hunt is the starting RB. West & Spiller are role players. 

You sound like someone mad that they missed Hunt and reaching for excuses to bash on those who were able to get him. 

6th round for me, BTW, my RB3 before you project some BS about me reaching like you did above to someone else.

Further, have you considered the possibility that maybe coaches don't always tell their opponents exactly their game plan a couple days before the game?  

<16 touches is somewhat preposterous. Chiefs are about 50-50 run/pass. There should be plenty of touches for Hunt with Spiller & West each getting a handful of carries. 

[Hot Sauce Guy 8,910]

1 hour ago, B. Nugget said:

Did you guys draft him thinking he was going to get 100% of the touches? 

West is nothing special & Spiller is an injury prone 30 yr old, but they will get touches to keep the defense guessing and to give Hunt a breather and take a series or two...you know, basically what every other RB corps in the league does except for a few sure-fire workhorse studs.

Reid traded up for him, hand-picked him, had him splitting reps in practice and then named him the starter.

 

Exactly. 

If West was better than Hunt, the Chiefs wouldn't have traded up for Hunt. Hell, if Ware was better than Hunt they wouldn't have done so.

And frequently overlooked by the naysayers in here, Hunt was already pressing Ware in camp for carries before the injury. Had Ware not been hurt this may have become a full blown timeshare. 

As it stands, its Hunt >>>>>> West >>>>>>>>>> Spiller. 

We'll see what they look like against the Pats. First quarter should tell the tale (if the Pats get way up, gameplans shift of course). 

[Weebs210 2,418]

All I'm saying is if I used a round 3 pick on Hunt I would be a little antsy to see how the carries shake out. No one thinks Spiller is going to have an impact. West could see more touches than people believe he will. Two more days to find out.

[Interseptopus 5,722]

18 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Seems like an unfounded set of opinions based on presumption at best. 

The Chiefs rotated in RBs with Ware as the lead back last year. He got plenty of touches. 

Of course the Chiefs will use West & Spiller. But if you're "betting" Hunt doesn't get 16 touches a game, you'd be pretty foolish. 

There is no legitimate concern over a "3-way RBBC" because there isn't a 3-way RBBC. Hunt is the starting RB. West & Spiller are role players. 

You sound like someone mad that they missed Hunt and reaching for excuses to bash on those who were able to get him. 

6th round for me, BTW, my RB3 before you project some BS about me reaching like you did above to someone else.

Further, have you considered the possibility that maybe coaches don't always tell their opponents exactly their game plan a couple days before the game?  

<16 touches is somewhat preposterous. Chiefs are about 50-50 run/pass. There should be plenty of touches for Hunt with Spiller & West each getting a handful of carries. 

16 touches a game is a lot... but KC runs their offense through the RBs... so I think 16 is pretty reasonable. I think he will average around 17-18 touches when it's all said and done. He'll have a few heavy games and some not so heavy. 

To say with certainty that he won't get 16 carries when 2 role players are behind him is completely short sighted and it's just peeing in someone's cheerio's because they got the last of the cheerios. 

 

Not sure if I want to try and get him round 3 or if I should jump on Zeke 2.01... tough call.

TBH, I think people who got Hunt outside of round 2 got a good deal... I think he will prove to be one of the stronger RB2s to own. Round 2 is a little early IMO but I can see it happening for people who are desperate for a RB2... 

[Wrigley 3,432]

42 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

16 touches a game is a lot... but KC runs their offense through the RBs... so I think 16 is pretty reasonable. I think he will average around 17-18 touches when it's all said and done. He'll have a few heavy games and some not so heavy. 

To say with certainty that he won't get 16 carries when 2 role players are behind him is completely short sighted and it's just peeing in someone's cheerio's because they got the last of the cheerios. 

 

Not sure if I want to try and get him round 3 or if I should jump on Zeke 2.01... tough call.

TBH, I think people who got Hunt outside of round 2 got a good deal... I think he will prove to be one of the stronger RB2s to own. Round 2 is a little early IMO but I can see it happening for people who are desperate for a RB2... 

Took Zeek at 1.10 and Hunt at 3.10

 

feel pretty good about it 

[zoonation 5,079]

Spiller isn't getting touches.  Come on now.  Hunt will be the lead dog as the season rolls along.  Few teams give all the touches to one guy.  Talk about blowing things out of proportion based on some token comment from the OC.  

I think West splits on Thursday night given that it would be tough to throw a rook out there every play against the world champs in prime time. 

[Weebs210 2,418]

2 minutes ago, zoonation said:

Spiller isn't getting touches.  Come on now.  Hunt will be the lead dog as the season rolls along.  Few teams give all the touches to one guy.  Talk about blowing things out of proportion based on some token comment from the OC.  

I think West splits on Thursday night given that it would be tough to throw a rook out there every play against the world champs in prime time. 

I agree with most of what you said except the bolded. Thursday night games are an atroucity.

[zoonation 5,079]

agree but this is the season opener.  

[Hot Sauce Guy 8,910]

1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

16 touches a game is a lot... but KC runs their offense through the RBs... so I think 16 is pretty reasonable. I think he will average around 17-18 touches when it's all said and done. He'll have a few heavy games and some not so heavy. 

To say with certainty that he won't get 16 carries when 2 role players are behind him is completely short sighted and it's just peeing in someone's cheerio's because they got the last of the cheerios. 

 

Not sure if I want to try and get him round 3 or if I should jump on Zeke 2.01... tough call.

TBH, I think people who got Hunt outside of round 2 got a good deal... I think he will prove to be one of the stronger RB2s to own. Round 2 is a little early IMO but I can see it happening for people who are desperate for a RB2... 

 Any other team, I would say that's correct. But with the Chiefs as you agreed to, they do run their offense through the running backs. We're also talking about touches, not rushing attempts. I think 14-16 rushing attempts is about right for Hunt -  maybe he gets 2 to 5 receptions a game? 

 20+ touches makes  him a "feature back" strong RB2. 

 But these are all just guesses until we see what happens in game. I'm reasonably sure hunt is going to be a solid value for where most people drafted him in the fifth sixth or seventh rounds.  

[Interseptopus 5,722]

2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 Any other team, I would say that's correct. But with the Chiefs as you agreed to, they do run their offense through the running backs. We're also talking about touches, not rushing attempts. I think 14-16 rushing attempts is about right for Hunt -  maybe he gets 2 to 5 receptions a game? 

 20+ touches makes  him a "feature back" strong RB2. 

 But these are all just guesses until we see what happens in game. I'm reasonably sure hunt is going to be a solid value for where most people drafted him in the fifth sixth or seventh rounds.  

Absolutely, adding receptions almost guarantees him over 16 touches a game. I would imagine 4 receptions a game is reasonable. Regardless, unless you drafted him round 2 you're going to get solid value from him. 

As everyone else clamors over Cook, Mixon, Fournette, and CMC you're looking at someone who provides equal if not greater value than most (if not all) of those RBs for 2017. 

He is definitely someone I'm targeting for the 3.12/4.01 swing. I think I will miss... I see him going early round 3 in my league if not late round 2 just because of the number of RBs being kept, but I can't justify him at 2.01. I'm better off taking Gronk/Kelce there which I really don't want to do either. As long as I can land one of the rookies at that spot then I am happy. 

[MattFancy 2,197]

39 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

I agree with most of what you said except the bolded. Thursday night games are an atroucity.

The opener is usually the best Thursday night game of them all since they have plenty of time to be rested and prepared. Now starting next week, yes, TNF games blow.

[spider321 1,124]

Are they still doing the horrific stupid-### ####ing color rush jerseys?

[Hot Sauce Guy 8,910]

1 minute ago, spider321 said:

Are they still doing the horrific stupid-### ####ing color rush jerseys?

Please God, no. What an abomination those uniforms are. A 1970s monochromatic acid trip nightmare.

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

Teicher today:

 

The Chiefs are putting a lot of trust in rookie running back Kareem Hunt. He’ll be their regular featured back in Thursday night’s game against the Patriots. Gillette Stadium will by far be the biggest stage of Hunt’s career. He played four seasons in college at the University of Toledo. Hunt said his approach this week was no different than it’s ever been. “I’m just trying to think about it as another game,’’ he said. “I played a lot of football growing up . . . I just can’t make it bigger than what it is.’’

 

Wonder if he got a call last night from Reid...

[Interseptopus 5,722]

I missed out on this one guys... He went pretty high in my league... 28 players kept and he went 2.07. Just ahead of Cook, Miller, CMC. RBs went crazy in the first 3 rounds. I was able to nab Abdullah 4.01 and Lacy 8.01 for my RB 3 and 4.

I would have had to take him over Hilton, Gronk, Fournette, Hopkins, D. Thomas... I thought it'd be a huge reach IMO

Best of luck to all of you with Hunt. Wish I could have hopped onto this one!

[SameSongNDance 7,014]

12 hours ago, Tyrion said:

Well Ware got 247 touches last year while missing one game and most of another. I think that Hunt is superior to Ware so I would take the Over.

He's not but I'd still take the over.

10 hours ago, zoonation said:

Spiller isn't getting touches. Come on now. Hunt wHill be the lead dog as the season rolls along. Few teams give all the touches to one guy. Talk about blowing things out of proportion based on some token comment from the OC.

I think West splits on Thursday night given that it would be tough to throw a rook out there every play against the world champs in prime time.

Being a heavy road dog usually isn't conducive to RB production and I think West's usage is going to depend on how early KC goes down multiple scores. This might be the most work West sees all season. If that turns out to be the case, I can see myself attempting to buy low.

[msudaisy26 5,903]

10 hours ago, MattFancy said:

The opener is usually the best Thursday night game of them all since they have plenty of time to be rested and prepared. Now starting next week, yes, TNF games blow.

Disagree, it is usually the Thanksgiving day games. 

[msudaisy26 5,903]

I think this is going going to be a 55/35/10 split on touches out of the backfield. 

55 to Hunt

40 to West

5 to Hill/Spiller/QBs

[Hot Sauce Guy 8,910]

16 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

I think this is going going to be a 55/35/10 split on touches out of the backfield. 

55 to Hunt

40 to West

5 to Hill/Spiller/QBs

Latest reports saying Hunt to receive a "feature back" workload and the timeshare talk was off base. 

[ZWK 1,969]

Ware had about 75% of the KC RB workload last year, in the 12 regular season games that he played from start to finish. In those 12 games, West never got more than 6 carries (9 touches) and he averaged a lot less than that. West had double digit carries in each of the 4 games when Ware missed time (including a ton of carries in the 4th quarter against the Broncos).

I'm expecting it to be pretty lopsided again this year, maybe 65-70% for Hunt.

 

[Judge Smails 3,608]

Thinking whether West is even worth a FAAB pickup.  I have Hill already - that might be too many shares of the Chiefs offense.

[The Jacket 197]

8 hours ago, msudaisy26 said:

I think this is going going to be a 55/35/10 split on touches out of the backfield. 

55 to Hunt

40 to West

5 to Hill/Spiller/QBs

You will be very wrong about that. Chiefs always like to feature a back if and when they have a decent one. Hunt will have to REALLY suck to lose that much work to West, who's terrible. And I wouldn't bet on that. One thing the Chiefs have proven pretty good at for a long time now is finding talent at RB. And they drafted Hunt higher than most of their investments at the position.

People are sleeping on this guy and I'm really surprised. I thought there'd be more credence given to the Chiefs' success at RB for decades now, or simply more specifically with Reid. RBs in his offenses simply always produce. Unless Hunt is some kind of bum -- and I have no reason whatsoever to think that's the case -- he's GOING to produce, and quite possibly VERY highly. Are people forgetting how much RZ work KC gives its lead back? 

[Weebs210 2,418]

8 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Latest reports saying Hunt to receive a "feature back" workload and the timeshare talk was off base. 

I'm personal not completely convinced until I see it in game. West is basically free so I'm going to hold until after Thursday.

[Interseptopus 5,722]

59 minutes ago, The Jacket said:

You will be very wrong about that. Chiefs always like to feature a back if and when they have a decent one. Hunt will have to REALLY suck to lose that much work to West, who's terrible. And I wouldn't bet on that. One thing the Chiefs have proven pretty good at for a long time now is finding talent at RB. And they drafted Hunt higher than most of their investments at the position.

People are sleeping on this guy and I'm really surprised. I thought there'd be more credence given to the Chiefs' success at RB for decades now, or simply more specifically with Reid. RBs in his offenses simply always produce. Unless Hunt is some kind of bum -- and I have no reason whatsoever to think that's the case -- he's GOING to produce, and quite possibly VERY highly. Are people forgetting how much RZ work KC gives its lead back? 

what are your thoughts on hunts negatives?

 

Struggles to accelerate after redirecting his feet.

Average explosion.

Marginal downhill burst through line of scrimmage.

Inconsistent inside runner.

Looks to spin rather than finish

[spider321 1,124]

Blah. blah, blah, blah, blah...

So ready to actually see some football.

[B. Nugget 8]

It'll be interesting to see how people feel about him Friday if he has 6-7 catches as they play catch-up in the 2nd half...I don't think he is going to be pounded between the tackles for a 3 yards and a cloud dust, they are going to use him all over the place to get him into space the way they did Charles because of his receiving skills.  He obviously isn't a game-breaker like JC, but he is going to catch a bunch of passes, IMO.

I'm a Chiefs homer and I expect him to struggle a bit early (Pats and Texans in the first month) but then about mid-October I expect him to really take off.

 

[Bayhawks 2,232]

1 hour ago, The Jacket said:

You will be very wrong about that. Chiefs always like to feature a back if and when they have a decent one. Hunt will have to REALLY suck to lose that much work to West, who's terrible. And I wouldn't bet on that. One thing the Chiefs have proven pretty good at for a long time now is finding talent at RB. And they drafted Hunt higher than most of their investments at the position.

People are sleeping on this guy and I'm really surprised. I thought there'd be more credence given to the Chiefs' success at RB for decades now, or simply more specifically with Reid. RBs in his offenses simply always produce. Unless Hunt is some kind of bum -- and I have no reason whatsoever to think that's the case -- he's GOING to produce, and quite possibly VERY highly. Are people forgetting how much RZ work KC gives its lead back? 

While 35% might be a bit high, during his years as HC, Reid has given his top RB 61% of the RB touches, and his second RB 23% of the RB touches.  Obviously, this is influenced by years with injuries, but it's also influenced the other way by years where Westbrook, McCoy, and Charles garnered over 70% and 80% of the touches.

The idea that Reid and/KC will ride their RB1 to death doesn't seem to be based in reality.  In his tenure as KC HC, Reid's RBs have averaged 428 touches.  If you give 60% to Hunt, that's 257 touches (rush AND rec).  If you give 30% to his RB2, that's 128 touches.  Those numbers seem realistic, IMO. 

If Hunt blows up and shows himself to be in the Westbrook, McCoy, Charles category, then I'd expect his touches to be higher, but on the flip side, if he makes rookie mistakes, his touches could be lower.

[matttyl 2,689]

A week or two ago someone posted a link to the video showing him blocking two players (I think it was the Bengals preseason game).  Can't find it now.  Anyone got it handy?

[in2win 29]

West isn't a slouch by any means.  His Sparq scores were very good and I think he is much closer to the type of back Charles was then Hunt is.  I'm sure the Chiefs will want to see what they have in Hunt but I think West eventually gets the nod.  Or the bulk share anyway. Just my opinion, but who am I?  Just sitting on my couch right now scratching myself

 

[MattFancy 2,197]

Not saying he's Ware, but didn't Ware catch a ton of passes in Week 1 last season? I could see something similar for Hunt tomorrow night.

[Chaka 6,241]

Anyone have information about how reliable Sparq score are as a predictor of NFL success? 

I only ask because, IIRC, guys like Christine Michael and Jerrick McKinnon had crazy good Sparq scores and I am curious if Sparq really means much.