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RB Kareem Hunt, CLE (9 Viewers)

Hot Sauce Guy said:
Alex Smith was Hunt (and the Chief’s) biggest problem today.

none of this is on Hunt. Just a disastrous performance by Smith.

He might get benched. Good lord - what a train wreck.

nothing sums this team up better right now than 4th & 2 direct snap to Kelce for a loss of 3. :doh:  
He is in ff for sure. 

KC is a hot mess.

 
Talent may be the least important variable that contributes to a RB's success. 
Talent is important.

situational playcalling, OL play, effective passing game, also important.

if the team around the RB is executing, a RB’s talent is the difference between a good RB and a great RB. 

Hunt is incredibly talented. But all the talent in the world is worthless with QB play like that. 

 
The Chiefs have got to bench Smith & go with Mahomes. I believe it's the only way to save their season.

Somebody on one of the TV shows said they can't bench Smith because it would hurt his trade value. LOL. What? Forget his trade value. Make him your backup.

Mahomes definitely has the potential to open up their offense & not rely on so much trickery. He may not be totally ready, but Mahomes is their only chance to salvage their season, IMO.

 
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The Chiefs have got to bench Smith & go with Mahomes. I believe it's the only way to save their season.

Somebody on one of the TV shows said they can't bench Smith because it would hurt his trade value. LOL. What? Forget his trade value. Make him your backup.

Mahomes definitely has the potential to open up their offense & not rely on so much trickery. He may not be totally ready, but Mahomes is their only chance to salvage their season, IMO.
Another coach did this a couple weeks ago. :whistle:

 
This is why I couldn't put Hunt up there with Bell or Johnson yet. Johnson was great last year, even with Palmer stinking the joint up. Guys like Barry, LT and others have put up monster numbers even with bad lines and bad qb play. That all being said Hunt is still at top 10ish running back going into next year unless there is some sort of split with Ware coming back.

 
This is why I couldn't put Hunt up there with Bell or Johnson yet. Johnson was great last year, even with Palmer stinking the joint up. Guys like Barry, LT and others have put up monster numbers even with bad lines and bad qb play. That all being said Hunt is still at top 10ish running back going into next year unless there is some sort of split with Ware coming back.
That is a huge risk.  All that's happening now is lowball offers, but if someone wants to toss me RB10 value in the offseason I'm out.

 
the problem is Andy Reid plain and simple. 

Hunt has  hit the rookie wall ...he was abused and overused early in the season I think he looks tired and worn out. Id like to know his usage stats thru this part of the season   v. Clinton Portis' rookie season and  Zeke Elliotts last year

 
the problem is Andy Reid plain and simple. 

Hunt has  hit the rookie wall ...he was abused and overused early in the season I think he looks tired and worn out. Id like to know his usage stats thru this part of the season   v. Clinton Portis' rookie season and  Zeke Elliotts last year
You got all that from 11 carries? :rolleyes:  

 
the problem is Andy Reid plain and simple. 

Hunt has  hit the rookie wall ...he was abused and overused early in the season I think he looks tired and worn out. Id like to know his usage stats thru this part of the season   v. Clinton Portis' rookie season and  Zeke Elliotts last year
I can't disagree with this. Maybe Reid needs to let someone else call the plays.

I didn't see today's game, but the last few I caught it seems like they've got more gadget plays than fundamental football plays. Offense is completely off the rails.

 
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Hunt owners should looking to trade for Ware this off-season.  IMO it's likely to be a time-share, and it's not clear that Hunt will have the bigger half of the pie.  At the very least, Ware would be a handcuff with upside and should be cheap.  Even if you don't love him throw some lowball stuff out there and see what comes back.

 
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It isn't that far fetched that he hit the wall and that is why Reid is limiting his carries, it could also just be Andy Reid being Andy Reid, he did the same thing to Charles when he was in his prime.
That’s not what hitting the wall means.

hunt has looked explosive the last few weeks. 

Geting 11 touches because the playcalling is so idiotic that your punter is your yardage leader is not an indictment of the RB’s freshness. 

The latter is more likely true. He’s a victim of Andy Reid. 

;)  

 
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Yes I still stand by my initial position.  The problem is not Hunt, and given what he has shown I’m sure not pulling him from my lineup in favor of a low RB2.  Give Zeke or Bell 9 carries in a game and odds are they aren’t going to put up great numbers either.

Football Outsiders have KC ranked as the 19th best run blocking line in the league yet Hunt leads the NFL in rushing yds despite his 9 carry effort last game.  Why is that?  Hunt is also their number 2 ranked RB behind only Zeke, and it’s close between them with a very wide margin to get to RB3.

I’ll ask again.  Have you seen him play?  The guy has some very special and unique talent.  if you watch him you can see it.  If you owned him in FF would you sit him?  For how many other RBs?  Please list them.

.
Are you still standing by your statement that he is a “plug and play matchup proof RB 1?l Or will you admit that maybe you overreacted to me disagreeing with that statement?

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Alex Smith was Hunt (and the Chief’s) biggest problem today.

none of this is on Hunt. Just a disastrous performance by Smith.

He might get benched. Good lord - what a train wreck.

nothing sums this team up better right now than 4th & 2 direct snap to Kelce for a loss of 3. :doh:  
But you would probably agree that he is not a “plug and play matchup proof RB1.”

Right? After all, this whole deal in this thread with me was my questioning that assertion a few weeks back and getting hammered for it. Seems pretty clear now.

 
But you would probably agree that he is not a “plug and play matchup proof RB1.”

Right? After all, this whole deal in this thread with me was my questioning that assertion a few weeks back and getting hammered for it. Seems pretty clear now.
:lmao:

I wasn't even involved in that whole ordeal but the reason you got hammered is because you were being pedantic about the semantics of the statement.  Disagreeing that Hunt would be one going forward would certainly have been fair, but writing 80 paragraphs about how a guy has to put up top 12 numbers each and every week when the person making the statement made it clear they were talking about a guy you could plug into your RB1 slot in your lineup was hard to watch.

 
I can't disagree with this. Maybe Reid needs to let someone else call the plays.

I didn't see today's game, but the last few I caught it seems like they've got more gadget plays than fundamental football plays. Offense is completely off the rails.
It's bizarre the way they continue to stick with all the gadget plays even as they continually backfire.

 
:lmao:

I wasn't even involved in that whole ordeal but the reason you got hammered is because you were being pedantic about the semantics of the statement.  Disagreeing that Hunt would be one going forward would certainly have been fair, but writing 80 paragraphs about how a guy has to put up top 12 numbers each and every week when the person making the statement made it clear they were talking about a guy you could plug into your RB1 slot in your lineup was hard to watch.
:rolleyes:

It’s literally been about 7 weeks since he’s posted RB1 numbers. He hasn’t been a guy you could plug into your RB1 lineup for quite awhile. 

But go ahead and keep doing that.

 
:rolleyes:

It’s literally been about 7 weeks since he’s posted RB1 numbers. He hasn’t been a guy you could plug into your RB1 lineup for quite awhile. 

But go ahead and keep doing that.
Keep doing what?  Like I said, this is my first comment on the topic.

You're like a dog with a bone.  You could have been sitting here with everyone patting you on the back for calling Hunt's decline here if you had just acted like a normal human being and said that instead of harping on a word.  Instead everyone just thinks you're a pedantic troll who is barely worth engaging because you're just going to pick out some singular dumb semantics to fixate on even once the poster clarifies what they meant by it. 

Despite ultimately being on the correct side with regards to Hunt's future projections you've somehow managed to come out of it looking like the fool.  So congrats on that, I guess.

 
Another coach did this a couple weeks ago. :whistle:
Mahomes was probably the best rookie QB in the NFL in the preseason and training camp. He looked great. Until Smith had the hot start people thought Mahomes was going to take over at some point. Mahomes is closer to Watson than Peterman. I think Mahomes is ready and would bring a new look to the Chiefs offense which they badly need right now. Teams have adjusted to what the Chiefs were doing were doing early in the year and Alex Smith just has nothing more to give.He is a mediocre QB.

I don't see the Chiefs making the move yet though. Reid is too loyal and the Chiefs still lead the division. However, I think it is possible Mahomes comes in soon. If they don't beat the Jets Smith may be done.

 
I am curious if anyone who watched the most recent game could describe what has gone wrong with Hunts performance?

I have heard some say it is Andy Reids fault, and I can see that being part of it. Maybe the largest part of it, but 11 rushing attempts for 17 yards is still not doing well enough with the opportunities he did have.

I didn't get to see the game so I don't know. I would just like to hear observations from those who did see the game and if this is a problem that will continue, or if it is just a bad game.

Buffalo is capable of blowing up a teams running game I suppose and perhaps they just had a very good day on defense?

There has to be more to it than just bad coaching. You could bring a guy off the street and get 11 for 17.

I thought his game against Dallas might be his lowest performance of the year, but this game against Buffalo was even worse.

Over 11 games Hunt is now on pace for 16.7 rushing attempts 81 yards .36 TD 3.8 targets 3.3 receptions 31.3 yards .18 TD per game.

268 rushing attempts 1295 yards 5.8 TD 61 targets 52 receptions 500 yards 2.9 TD by the end of the year.

The yards per reception of 9.6 is still likely too high based off of two really long ones he had earlier in the year.

He is regressing towards average efficiency stats for a RB of 4.3 ypc and 7.3 ypr how I projected for him before the season began. He is still ahead of that for now at 4.8 ypc and 9.6 ypr but this is not looking good for him moving forward.

 
I don't see the Chiefs making the move yet though. Reid is too loyal and the Chiefs still lead the division. However, I think it is possible Mahomes comes in soon. If they don't beat the Jets Smith may be done.
KCC lost 5 of 6, avg 12 ppg over last 3... you know the Jets are scoring at least 20 pts (likely 24-27)... I can't see any way for the Chiefs put up 30 on the road.

Must be so frustrating to be a Chiefs fan. The ship is going down and it doesn't have to.

 
Keep doing what?  Like I said, this is my first comment on the topic.

You're like a dog with a bone.  You could have been sitting here with everyone patting you on the back for calling Hunt's decline here if you had just acted like a normal human being and said that instead of harping on a word.  Instead everyone just thinks you're a pedantic troll who is barely worth engaging because you're just going to pick out some singular dumb semantics to fixate on even once the poster clarifies what they meant by it. 

Despite ultimately being on the correct side with regards to Hunt's future projections you've somehow managed to come out of it looking like the fool.  So congrats on that, I guess.
Uh, ok?

 
But you would probably agree that he is not a “plug and play matchup proof RB1.”
At this point it’s obvious.

Right? After all, this whole deal in this thread with me was my questioning that assertion a few weeks back and getting hammered for it. Seems pretty clear now.
That was not “the whole deal in this thread” - this is the Hunt player thread. No offense, but I don’t remember a single one of your posts. 

 
:lmao:

I wasn't even involved in that whole ordeal but the reason you got hammered is because you were being pedantic about the semantics of the statement.  Disagreeing that Hunt would be one going forward would certainly have been fair, but writing 80 paragraphs about how a guy has to put up top 12 numbers each and every week when the person making the statement made it clear they were talking about a guy you could plug into your RB1 slot in your lineup was hard to watch.
This. +1

 
I am curious if anyone who watched the most recent game could describe what has gone wrong with Hunts performance?

I have heard some say it is Andy Reids fault, and I can see that being part of it. Maybe the largest part of it, but 11 rushing attempts for 17 yards is still not doing well enough with the opportunities he did have.

I didn't get to see the game so I don't know. I would just like to hear observations from those who did see the game and if this is a problem that will continue, or if it is just a bad game.

Buffalo is capable of blowing up a teams running game I suppose and perhaps they just had a very good day on defense?

There has to be more to it than just bad coaching. You could bring a guy off the street and get 11 for 17.

I thought his game against Dallas might be his lowest performance of the year, but this game against Buffalo was even worse.

Over 11 games Hunt is now on pace for 16.7 rushing attempts 81 yards .36 TD 3.8 targets 3.3 receptions 31.3 yards .18 TD per game.

268 rushing attempts 1295 yards 5.8 TD 61 targets 52 receptions 500 yards 2.9 TD by the end of the year.

The yards per reception of 9.6 is still likely too high based off of two really long ones he had earlier in the year.

He is regressing towards average efficiency stats for a RB of 4.3 ypc and 7.3 ypr how I projected for him before the season began. He is still ahead of that for now at 4.8 ypc and 9.6 ypr but this is not looking good for him moving forward.
Yes. The chiefs couldn’t get a 1st down and that resulted in 11 carries and one deception.

they telegraph plays, to the point that a shotgun draw is a loss of 5. 

They insist on using Hill as a running back or calling direct snaps to the TE. 

But even with the gadget plays, the fundamental reason for Hunt’s awful game was the fact that Alex Smith had one of the worst games of his career. He was flat out terrible.  He missed his receivers, seemingly refused to use a check-down, threw into coverage, held the ball way too long (resulting in unexesssary sacks) and seems to have falling in love with himself as a running QB, because he’s doing it at Kaepernick frequency. 

As a result hunt got 11 carries. It’s impossible to put up great numbers under those circumstances.  No flow, no wearing down a defense, no RZ carrries (or possessions for that matter)

just bad football. This one wasn’t on Hunt. 

ETA: regarding the Bills glowing up the run, that’s not quite it. They blew up the pass and stacked the box. 8 man fronts all day for Hunt’s limited work. 

 
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Yes. The chiefs couldn’t get a 1st down and that resulted in 11 carries and one deception.

they telegraph plays, to the point that a shotgun draw is a loss of 5. 

They insist on using Hill as a running back or calling direct snaps to the TE. 

But even with the gadget plays, the fundamental reason for Hunt’s awful game was the fact that Alex Smith had one of the worst games of his career. He was flat out terrible.  He missed his receivers, seemingly refused to use a check-down, threw into coverage, held the ball way too long (resulting in unexesssary sacks) and seems to have falling in love with himself as a running QB, because he’s doing it at Kaepernick frequency. 

As a result hunt got 11 carries. It’s impossible to put up great numbers under those circumstances.  No flow, no wearing down a defense, no RZ carrries (or possessions for that matter)

just bad football. This one wasn’t on Hunt. 

ETA: regarding the Bills glowing up the run, that’s not quite it. They blew up the pass and stacked the box. 8 man fronts all day for Hunt’s limited work. 
I don't think the Bills were stacking the box actually. They played in nickel for most of the day and substituted a CAB in for a LBer. What they did was double Kelce and/or Hill most of the day. 

The biggest difference makers IMO against the run were Buffalo getting Yarborough in for Lawson and Milano in for Alexander. Milano has the speed and instincts at LB to consistently contain edges, fill gaps and minimize plays.

 
At this point it’s obvious.

That was not “the whole deal in this thread” - this is the Hunt player thread. No offense, but I don’t remember a single one of your posts. 
You left out the “with me” part in your quote, but whatever. Good luck with your boy the rest of the way.

 
Yes. The chiefs couldn’t get a 1st down and that resulted in 11 carries and one deception.

they telegraph plays, to the point that a shotgun draw is a loss of 5. 

They insist on using Hill as a running back or calling direct snaps to the TE. 

But even with the gadget plays, the fundamental reason for Hunt’s awful game was the fact that Alex Smith had one of the worst games of his career. He was flat out terrible.  He missed his receivers, seemingly refused to use a check-down, threw into coverage, held the ball way too long (resulting in unexesssary sacks) and seems to have falling in love with himself as a running QB, because he’s doing it at Kaepernick frequency. 

As a result hunt got 11 carries. It’s impossible to put up great numbers under those circumstances.  No flow, no wearing down a defense, no RZ carrries (or possessions for that matter)

just bad football. This one wasn’t on Hunt. 

ETA: regarding the Bills glowing up the run, that’s not quite it. They blew up the pass and stacked the box. 8 man fronts all day for Hunt’s limited work. 
I watched most of the first half, KC O'line was getting blown up regularly. The few Hunt carries I noticed, he was consistently hit behind the LoS. Smith held the ball way too long as well, early in the 1st quarter he was lucky he wasn't called for intentional grounding in the endzone. Smith took like a 9 step drop on a 3rd and long on that play, it was ridiculous.

Stick a fork in all KC skill players for the rest of the season, IMO. Their offense looks lost, I'll be surprised if they make the playoffs as even a wildcard at this point.

 
Hunt is also not a 3 down back anymore.  West comes in on 3rd down passing situations and in the 2 minute offense.  Frustrating as a Hunt owner knowing that Hunt will not be in the last few minutes of each half if KC is behind (which they have been the last few games).   Crazy how bad KC looks.

 
Hunt has hit the rookie wall.  Time to look a different direction if you are making a push for the Fantasy Playoffs.

Reid overused him.
This.

You see this quite often with rookie RBs that are featured right away.  There was no way Hunt could have kept that pace up (usage wise and performance wise), so the shark move was to deal him weeks ago in a redraft.

Still like his dynasty value.  He's a very talented RB and an excellent receiver.  Will be interesting when Mahomes takes over in KC.  Alex Smith is back to being same old mediocre Alex Smith.

 
the problem is Andy Reid plain and simple. 

Hunt has  hit the rookie wall ...he was abused and overused early in the season I think he looks tired and worn out. Id like to know his usage stats thru this part of the season   v. Clinton Portis' rookie season and  Zeke Elliotts last year
How can a 23 year athlete in great physical condition be tired?

 
How can a 23 year athlete in great physical condition be tired?
because even bigger athletes are pounding into him every week for the past 3 months, which is incidentally the time period for college full season, and a full season of college, the players are slower, smaller and don't hit as hard so 12 college games is probably equal to playing about 8 games in the NFL.

 
If Hunt has hit the "rookie wall"... wouldn't he be splitting time with Chark West and/or the other RB Hunt? West has proven himself enough to be playing regularly if indeed KHunt was nothing more than a notch above spent mayfly status out there.

I just think you've got the perfect storm of mediocrity right now in KCC... outdated playbook that everyone caught up to 6 weeks ago, a journeyman QB that played way above his proven track record for a few weeks, and an O-line that couldn't block a toilet.

KC is done. Stick a fork in 'em.

 
I don't think the Bills were stacking the box actually. They played in nickel for most of the day and substituted a CAB in for a LBer. What they did was double Kelce and/or Hill most of the day. 

The biggest difference makers IMO against the run were Buffalo getting Yarborough in for Lawson and Milano in for Alexander. Milano has the speed and instincts at LB to consistently contain edges, fill gaps and minimize plays.
Weird. - post game report talked about 8-9 man fronts in single coverage.

 
I watched most of the first half, KC O'line was getting blown up regularly. The few Hunt carries I noticed, he was consistently hit behind the LoS. Smith held the ball way too long as well, early in the 1st quarter he was lucky he wasn't called for intentional grounding in the endzone. Smith took like a 9 step drop on a 3rd and long on that play, it was ridiculous.

Stick a fork in all KC skill players for the rest of the season, IMO. Their offense looks lost, I'll be surprised if they make the playoffs as even a wildcard at this point.
This exactly.

It’s so weird how people who apparently watched this game see all of these things really clearly and yet people who so obviously didn’t watch any of the game blame Hunt & talk about “hitting a rookie wall”. :rolleyes:

The only wall Hunt hits is a bunch of LBs, DL & safeties in the backfield.

And it’s glaringly obvious. Last 3 games he’s looked like the exact same RB as he did the first 3 games. The difference is the team around him has imploded due to poor line play & more recently terrible QB play.  

if Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith & LT2 had a baby with Edge James & the Bus, that baby wouldn’t be able to do squat with 11 carries in this train wreck of an offense. 

:tfp:

(Ps - try not to picture the unholy orgy above or what the baby would look like) 

But by all means, people who didn’t watch this game or any of the last few - please do continue to educate us on what’s wrong with Hunt. :doh:  

 
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https://twitter.com/claywendler/status/935220446500413442

Looks like the Bills has their whole defense within 10yds of the LOS on both of those plays in the screen cap. If that was the norm yesterday, no wonder Hunt couldn’t find any room to run. 
It's an Alex Smith issue, a playcalling issue and a Tyreek Hill isn't a #1 WR issue. Hill is a gadget player and despite his speed, defenses don't seem to be too scared of him. Hill managed the very rare 11 target, 7 catch 41 yard game. It's one of the big issues people had with Hill coming into the season.Just like last year, his air yards and yards per target are awful. 

 
It's an Alex Smith issue, a playcalling issue and a Tyreek Hill isn't a #1 WR issue. Hill is a gadget player and despite his speed, defenses don't seem to be too scared of him. Hill managed the very rare 11 target, 7 catch 41 yard game. It's one of the big issues people had with Hill coming into the season.Just like last year, his air yards and yards per target are awful. 
He shouldn't be an outside receiver. He would be better working in the slot and backfield exclusively. Late last season when he played well down the stretch he was being used out of the backfield a lot. If the Chiefs were smart (big if) they would get back to using him there again. I actually think it was a big mistake letting Maclin go. They just don't have anyone besides Kelce to take the Defensive attention away from Hill anymore.

Right now the Chiefs offense kind of looks like the Seahawks offense. But Alex Smith is no Russell Wilson.

 
Not like it's the whole problem but don't they also stack the box because Hunt is too slow to outrun people? Yes he's a good back but he's not great at all.
Maybe. Think it has more to do with Smith not throwing deep and the only other consistent receiving threat being Kelce so if you can clog up the box, Kelce and Hunt are rendered useless. 

 

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