Nope, more a product of a year with first round options that were just deep and highly attractive.
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RB Kareem Hunt, CLE (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Biabreakable
- Start date
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Well your assumption is incorrect. I'll try to be more clear for you in the future. Hopefully I can squash this by saying he is a good RB, but I don't expect him to be a super star in 2019 depending where he goes.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I look at it like the Bell/Conner situation. Bell looked great and people were so worried about the drop off from Bell to Connors. Well Conners blew people away and was just as productive as Bell. Yes they are different style backs for sure but Connor with the offense showed no signs of slowing down. I think the team makes the running back today more so then anything else these days unless you're a Gurley or someone similar.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
According to FBG's preseason page Hunt's ADP was:
Overall Rank: 9
PPR Overall Rank: 11
Seems like a 1st rounder to me, but I usually play 12+ team leagues, not 8
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Kind of coming off a bit snarky on this reply.
I only play in 12 teamleagues as well.
I said "not always" a first round pick. When his average is 11 in a 12 team league does that not support what I'm saying? He was a fringe first round guy, he went in first round a lot and he often slid into early second round.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
So it’s my fault? Don’t bother. It’s too tiresome getting into discussions with you and trying to figure out where you’ll move the goalposts next.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Pretty please, Eagles?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
no, I'm saying I will try to be more clear. who is defensive now? sheesh lighten up. I dont know why you have a bone to pick with me, but you're literally looking for things. All meant was exactly what I said: I will try to be more clear with what I'm saying
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
right. I dont thinj he slides into the 1st at all on his new team. however he is suspended for however many games first. so I'll say 2020 I dont think hes a 1st rounder. doesnt matter. I hate these arguments. people trying to put words in my mouth or assume what I'm trying to say, blowing it out of proportion. makes it exhausting to try and have a meaningful conversation when people are looking for problems and on a mission to argue.
If anyone thinks Hunt will be just as effective and valuable on his new team as he was on the Chiefs, i disagree. that is all I'm saying. not saying hes JAG,drop able, or anything else. just saying Hunt needed KC more than KC needed Hunt. and considering how fast they dropped him I think they knew that too, and they were right- they're in the AFC championship
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kittenmittens
Footballguy
He's definitely not a JAG. He's very good, but it takes volume and lots of passing game usage to be a top fantasy RB. It's almost impossible to improve on a situation of 3 down feature back in the best offense in the league.
He averaged 16.8 carries which is solid but I felt he was heavily underutilized at just 2.9 receptions a game, a number which was on the downward spiral this last seaso. I don't think he's going to struggle to get that volume just about any conceivable place he lands.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Wow, I'm surprised his KC volume wasn't a bit higher, honestly.
I'd say that if he gets 20 touches somewhere else, it will almost certainly be less valuable than 19 touches in KC.
I think you are taking some of your discussion with Billy Bob and putting that on me.
But at times it does appear as if you are implying that KC does not and will not miss him, that the Chiefs made him. That's calling a call a JAG without calling him a JAG. It is, and even your last sentence heavily implies he's just an easily replaceable player which by definition is a JAG, just another guy.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
From a fantasy perspective I wouldn’t want him on the Raiders. I don’t trust Carr or Gruden.
If it's same ratio of rushes to receptions I'd agree and even if he remained a Chief he was putting up a solid 14 TD's on just 207 touches this year which is a hard pace to keep up with. Only way I see him improving on that many touches is if it's like 15 carries and 5 receptions a game.
But I really like the Bears a lot should that be where he ends up. I'm a big Cohen fan but I think he'll get is in passing game and the OL is a strength to me. I won't like him much less if at all if he's a Bear but really more to your point it's going to hard for him to maintain his Chief value most places and hard to think of a place I'd value him more. So I'm not really trying to disagree with that point of your's, but I don't think I feel as strongly about it being as hard to achieve, but for sure the odds are not on his side.
No matter were he goes he's going to drop in redraft because he's going to get suspended so he's not going to be a first or second round pick next year no matter where he goes.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
they are one game away from the superbowl... without him. The guys who have filled in, have looked great. One of them an undrafted nobody. I'm just calling a spade a spade. IMO KC has brought in a specific kind of RB- and that specific kind of RB flourishes in their system; it's designed that way. Much more likely than KC has just gotten lucky and has 3 or 4 RBs who could be in the probowl if they started the entire season.
Hunt may very well be a really good RB. I don't think I can make a fair statement one way or the other, becuase I haven't seen him play anywhere else yet. He may go somewhere else and flop. We've seen it before with others. He could go and be the best back in the league- seen that too. The facts are: KC is one game away from the superbowl without him, and every player they've been in there has looked phenomenal. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Hunt may not be as good on another team as he was on KC
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Nor is it unreasonable to say that Hunt may be just as good on another team as he was on KC.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
he very well could be. I've acknowledged that in my posts above. I disagree with that being the outcome of all of this. I wouldnt go after someone for having that opinion though. that kind of a debate is worthless because we wont know until he plays. and then what does it matter?
this place is for gathering information to help all of us make the best decisions for our teams. not for debates like Alex Collins was last offseason. I welcome having a constructive conversation with someone and me being wrong. that makes me a better fantasy player. people who need to be right all the time arent worth it.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
If you’re going to have an opinion on Hunt expect others to as well, not just make statements about how he won’t be as good on another team and then say the debate is worthless. It wasn’t worthless for you to have that opinion on Hunt.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
JFC meanwhile so people really think he will only get 4 or 6 games? I was thinking closer to a full season maybe more.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
6 is standard for domestic abuse situations - and while this isn't literally domestic abuse I would have to say it fits the spirit of it. It's possible he gets more though based on the optics of the video.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I’m guessing it will start at a base of 6 games and could well get mitigated to less dependent upon how well Hunt has progressed - with clear documentation - in resolving his anger issue.
I’m not going to be a Hunt apologist. He deserves significant punishment for his actions. But he also wasn’t just picking random innocent victims and giving them beat downs. And if he had kicked a football with the force he kicked that woman, who by all accounts initiated and then significantly escalated the situation, it would have gone all of what - 2 yds? He could have seriously hurt that girl and did not do so.
So while I won’t excuse Hunt for his actions, I also won’t give the woman a complete pass for her behavior simply because she’s a woman. That’s not an excuse to act the way she did and it’s just insulting to give her a complete pass and ignore her part in what happened only because she is a woman.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
You keep harping on this but it's a strange position to take. They basically had to win one game without Hunt to get there. They pretty much had a 1st round bye locked up already when Hunt was cut.
They were 9-2 with Hunt and are now 4-3 without him.
matuski
Footballguy
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i think 6 to 8, and less than that is pretty unlikely. Just my opinion of course.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Tool said:
Your guess is as good as anyone’s.
saintfool
Dead sexy
I feel pretty comfortable saying if he gets more then 6 it won't be from the kicking the girl incident but will be because of the other incidents in conjunction with that one.
Also I believe spending 5 games on the commissioner exempt list is going to assist him, some stuff I was reading the other day suggested it might be utilized as time served so to speak. I'm dubious they'd just simply credit him 5 games, but I think it might be utilized to work the suspension down.
Men-in-Cleats
Footballguy
For those of you making the "product of the system" argument as to why he won't be as good if he goes elsewhere did you watch any of the games this year? There were times you just saw him taking over a game flat running over people, making extremely athletic moves to get free or get extra yardage, etc. He definitely passes the eye test, it wasn't that playing for them was giving him gaping wide lanes where he wasn't touched until he was 5 yards downfield. It certainly helps any RB to have a dynamic passing offense to open things up for you but if you watched him, he's a very good RB and as long as he doesn't fall into a really bad situation he'll be fine.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think it would take a really poor situation for him to not return at worst RB2 fantasy numbers - he's surely a talented complete back. I will admit that playing in an Andy Reid system with that passing game was very helpful (but it doesn't mean it was the only reason for his success).
trader jake
Footballguy
Agreed. Some have said they didn't notice any dropoff, but it seemed like the Chiefs had some real issues running out of shotgun after Hunt was released. That's just me watching games though. Anyone have something more concrete they can provide on that?
Heading into the game last week I heard Mike Lombardi say they they are averaging about one full yard less per run out of the shotgun since they lost Hunt.
krsone21
Footballguy
"By some accounts," I think you mean. Based on the video evidence, it was Hunt who significantly escalated the situation.
From a FF perspective, in redraft, a 6 game suspension would be difficult to overcome. In dynasty, it could offer a chance to acquire a valuable asset, cheaply.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I’m not interested in rehashing this. Hunt was at fault, no question. It’s unfortunate, IMO, that some people are willing to allow any behavior short of murder out of a person just because they have a uterus and not hold them accountable as well, but that’s their perogative.
So you're not interested in re-hasing this, but you do anyway. I will respond to your comment, then.
I think there's a big difference between "any behavior short of murder" and wanting to stay at a party where she's not wanted and loudly knocking on a person's door.
Regardless of whether this had been a woman or a man, HUNT CAME AFTER HER. She was out of the apartment/hotel room. You're choosing to believe the accounts of Hunt's allies (who didn't file any charges with regards to the claims they made, which is interesting), and ignore the video evidence of Hunt FOLLOWING her after she left his room and ATTACKING HER, without any video evidence of being provoked.
It's unfortunate, IMO, that some people are willing to allow any behavior short of murder out of a person just because he's athletically gifted and hold them accountable as well, but that's their prerogative.
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Well, that’s good to know, since you obviously were there and witnessed everything first hand. Thanks for the information. Have a great day.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
I love the Bronco Billy's of the world - fabulously clueless fake news people who believe everything they're told and never question anything..Billy were YOU there? nope. know who was? a camera. it saw everything , just list Bayhawks said!! he ate your lunch bro..I know you probably still believe the Duke Lacrosse players did 'something' and the UVA frat boys did too. despite zero evidence..but you probably don't believe the Kobe Bryant accuser, despite millions in payouts from KB.and evidence supporting her claims..or MJ and his wrongdoings.you probably think Bill Cosby is an upstanding citizen who got railroaded. and Blasey Ford's BS story to which there is zero corrobaration, zero evidence, and STILL not a single police report filed by her..why? because it's a felony to file false claims at the po-po office..and she'd have to face Kavvy in trial..and testify.and be cross-examined to which she'd fail. you and your ilk also believe the Tawana Brawley BS story, that Steven Pagones committed a crime, to which he never did, was awarded millions and sharpton has yet to pay the $$ the court ordered him to pay.not one penny.20+ years later. people like you are dangerous Billy.very dangerous and it's time you're kind are called out for it. Hunt beat a woman ,shoved her to the ground, then hit her when she was down.oh i'm sorry, kicked a woman when she was down and defenseless. I guess only some of us can see what happened in that video.you probably saw the Wizard of Oz or the Sound of Music..
say it with an English accent here, for dramatic effect: riiight riiight riight riiight riiight riiight...
or as Al from Happy Days would say while pulling up his pants..
Yeeeeppp yepp yeppp yepppp yeppp...LOL
say it with an English accent here, for dramatic effect: riiight riiight riight riiight riiight riiight...
or as Al from Happy Days would say while pulling up his pants..
Yeeeeppp yepp yeppp yepppp yeppp...LOL
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Do you find this kind of diatribe meaningful and productive en lieu of having a civil discussion?
I wasn’t there, nor, I’m guessing, were you. There IS video. EVERYTHING I discussed in my post was in the video. EVERYTHING you discussed in your post was based on accounts from Hunt’s friends; accounts, that if true, should have led to them filing criminal charges. They didn’t, which should cause one to question their stories (not discard them automatically, but it would be reasonable to be skeptical).
So, neither of us was there; one of us is basing his statements on video evidence, while the other is basing his on potentially biased accounts, that are not corroborated by law enforcement. So, there’s that.
You have a great day, too.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
To try and get this back on somewhat of a track - am I correct in thinking that if he comes back next year, it will be with a new team and brand new contract. As such, at least monetarily speaking, he could end up in a much better situation because of this situation? If that's the case, does the NFL need to amend it's contract rules to keep things like this from happening?
You are correct, but I would think he won’t get a massive contract next offseason. If he can stay out of trouble, he’d be smart to sign a short deal, stay out of trouble, dominate when his suspension ends, then go for a big contract.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
It's certainly possible. By NFL standards he wasn't making much. Still, I would expect whatever contract he signs to be very small and very short.
When Mike Vick came back he signed as the 39th highest paid QB, right between Seneca Wallace and Jon Kitna.
