Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
This stat seemed noteworthy to me from Graham Barfield. It was from April but got quoted/RT'ed yesterday after the trade.
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RB Alvin Kamara, NO (5 Viewers)
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Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Even in standard scoring? Do you think thomas or kamara has a better chance of scoring a td every week?
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
The crazy fact is that RB's generally score more points than WR's in general. Michael Thomas is around a top 10 WR, and perhaps top 5. That's studly. I would have a hard time not taking the trade for Thomas straight up for Kamara unless I was really hurting at RB and my WR's were all set. Crazy again...
TD's? Both have about a 50/50 score every week with Thomas more like .55 to .60 and Kamara more like .40 to .45. Just my crazy guess at this stage.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Payton is crazy - this is the week he does something totally unexpected like giving Ingram 8 total touches
Why? Nobody knows why ... its what Payton does.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
I think Ingram's skillset more closely resembles AP, so the logical leap is to think AP leaving opens up the door for more usage from Ingram, and Kamara will stay the same or only a slight uptick. I think that is logical reasoning looking at past performance.
However, I also think Peyton has desired a back with Kamara type skillset (Kamara is great catching passes, but unlike Reggie Bush, Kamara can also run between the tackles effectively as displayed in college). C.J. Spiller was a failed attempt to fill the role of a versatile back that can be effective in the run & pass game. There is no doubt Peyton has been searching for this perfect fit back since the Deuce McCallister/ Bush days. Peyton has never truly had a back with the complete skillset (Sproles comes closest but his size did not allow him to be full time), and I know his style of offense greatly values a RB with such a skillset. In fact, he has played sub par players (Cadet/Pierre Thomas, etc.) to Ingram's overall rushing talent because they are better than him in the passing game. Kamara is no slouch at running the ball, and for those thinking he can't carry the load, he's one inch taller than Ingram, but weighs the same. This isn't a scat back, or cop only type back.
The bye week is usually the week teams make adjustments to their game plan and historically we see rookie upticks in usage. AP being traded helps to fund this idea of making wholesale changes in strategy. It is conceivable that both Ingram and Kamara see upticks in usage, or one greater than the other, but when we factor in Peyton who used Sproles so effectively in spite of him not having Kamara's size, one can see the value in having personnel on the field that does not tip the hand on the play call to be run or pass. Kamara has a huge edge here over Ingram in versatility and unpredictability, and Sean Peyton more than any other coach values this in his play calling. We are talking about a coach who was trailing 10-6 at halftime and onside kicks the ball in the super bowl to start the 2nd half. You think he values unpredictable play calling? I think AP was forced on him and he absolutely loathes putting in a guy that was so one dimensional (and is glad he wasn't effective). Where as a different style coach like Fox would love to pound the rock 20-30 times with AP and feel totally comfortable doing so, Peyton felt put in a box running AP out to the huddle.
Another way to look at this is Kamara gets all the AP snaps and Peyton gets to put in totally different play packages which he is comfortable running for those 8-9 carries AP would have got, but we will not truly know until after we see 2 or 3 games coming out of the bye.
If you recall, the saints were not expecting to get Reggie Bush, it was a surprise and once they got him they changed the entire game plan to suit his style. I would say the Kamara's skillset is even better suited to Peyton's ideal back as he can also run effectively between the tackles even if not quite as fast or dynamic as Bush in space, he is still above average there.
This is an older article, but confirms a few of my thoughts. http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/sports/saints/article_2b820100-31aa-11e7-8da3-8ff58a2647f6.html
We don't know, but I would bet on Kamara as the ideal back suited to Peyton's ideal style of play. Anybody who has watched Ingram's usage over the years has either scratched their head about his usage or lack thereof, or the merely understood that is not the type of back Peyton likes to use in his style of play calling. As the rookie matures, I believe Peyton would have him in the game as often as at all possible. just imho
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Getting a start with me in standard. Been holding him since he shown out week 1. If he ended up at RB 5 by the end of year, I woudln't blink twice. Rare RB with a Freeman ceiling and a Tevin Coleman floor.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Even though FOOTBALL GUYS have Kamara projected fairly low in this weeks RB projections, I am going against the grain, going contrary if you will, and starting him as my RB #2. It just has a feel about his usage coming off a bye and Payton licking his chops.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Alvin Kamara - RB - Saints
The Times-Picayune's Jeff Duncan believes the Saints traded Adrian Peterson because of how much they "love" third-round RB Alvin Kamara.
Kamara's ability was on full display in the London game before the bye, where he turned 15 touches into 96 total yards and a touchdown, and it is not a coincidence the decision to trade Peterson came after that performance. "There's a confidence level we have with how Mark [Ingram] and how Alvin are playing," coach Sean Payton said following the trade. With Peterson out of the picture, Ingram is the better fantasy option, especially in standard, but Kamara has the look of an every-week option as well.
Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune
Oct 12 - 9:57 AM
The Times-Picayune's Jeff Duncan believes the Saints traded Adrian Peterson because of how much they "love" third-round RB Alvin Kamara.
Kamara's ability was on full display in the London game before the bye, where he turned 15 touches into 96 total yards and a touchdown, and it is not a coincidence the decision to trade Peterson came after that performance. "There's a confidence level we have with how Mark [Ingram] and how Alvin are playing," coach Sean Payton said following the trade. With Peterson out of the picture, Ingram is the better fantasy option, especially in standard, but Kamara has the look of an every-week option as well.
Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune
Oct 12 - 9:57 AM
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
FWIW, I have this exact dilemma (Bell is my #1). Fortunately it's standard scoring so I think that makes Ingram the pretty clear play. In PPR it's much murkier but I'd probably still ride Ingram at least one more week, until I see whether and how Kamara's workload changes in AP's absence.
Honestly, in a straight redraft league, I'd be tempted to try and package them both for a top-12 RB. You'll save yourself the lineup dilemmas and free up a roster spot for another RB dart throw like Mack or McGuire. (I don't have that luxury since the league where I have this issue is a keeper format - sure not sorry about that though!)
Scooby1974
Footballguy
He and McKinnon are on my FA list...have McKinnon qued up because he'll start. decisions decisions. I just don't think Ingram is that dynamic after having him meddling on my dynasty team for a few years after drafting is lame butt.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Ingram gets a bump too, but you're correct, he's not that dynamic, more like a younger Gore, just keeps plodding or matriculating without the burst that Kamara, McKinnon, and now Mack offers. In a TD heavy league who do you like better moving forward - Ingram, Kamara, McKinnon, and even add Jones to that mix? Jones will share with Ty, and McKinnon could be a 3 down back, Murray back soon. Pick two ROS today.
Scooby1974
Footballguy
TD redraft...I'd lean McKinnon and Ingram I think. Kamara and Jones seem to have great promise for the future, but situations are muddy as you said.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This would be more helpful if you could start Saints RB instead of having to choose one of the 3 or 4 RB they use over the course of the season.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
This is very true but noteworthy now because in theory we are down to 2. That is until they re-sign Daniel Lasco and he starts getting 10 touches a game.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That should be a concern giving Paytons history.This is very true but noteworthy now because in theory we are down to 2. That is until they re-sign Daniel Lasco and he starts getting 10 touches a game.
Kamara was RB 18 after four weeks in PPR RB 24 in standard. He should be a RB two for the season. I just don't see the Peterson trade really changing much for Ingram or Kamara. Lasco or someone else likely does move up and takes a handful of opportunities at times now, similar to Peterson who wasn't getting much anyways.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
What do reckon will be said around 4:30 p.m. on Sunday, if not sooner, about Kamara?
Sebowski
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
"We should have sold high." I'm a tad nervous that will be the case but his name is so exotic I want to keep him on my rosters.
No but really I could see him going 5/20 on the ground and 5/40 in the air and I wouldn't be surprised.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Ah #### and I never considered the fact that Snead is coming back. Does anyone else remember Reggie Bush and Lance Moore getting a bump when the other was injured? Hm, I need to hedge and sell somewhere.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Well, could very well be, but you're correct, he's "is so exotic."
GOAT, BUM, Budding Star, or just another scat back... I am sure Kamara would love to shed that perception.
What if he scored 3 TD's and 100 + total yards?
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
He's this years Sproles until he proves he can run between the tackles. Anyone who thinks he's going to be an every down back really isn't paying attention. And I was trading for him everywhere I could before the season in dynasty, because that's a good situation to be in but he's not a future star.
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electric Ape
Footballguy
The mainstream perception seems to be that Kamara is the new Sproles. This is probably partially fueled by Payton publicly referring to AK as his new joker back and also by AK getting fairly limited carries and deriving most of his value so far via the passing game.
This sentiment also seems to be shaping how fantasy players view Kamara, tending to see him as mostly a smallish passing down back. I'm not so sure this is the correct view though.
First, Kamara really isn't small. Sproles weighs 190 lbs on a good day. Spiller weighs about 200. Reggie Bush at his heaviest was maybe 205. Kamara is 215 which is a lot closer to feature back size (and yes I know this is not just about total weight, it's also about BMI).
Also there's matter of game tape. Kamara has received limited carries this season but so far he's looked like a very capable runner. I'll admit that his best regular season work was done on more of an outside run but in the preseason he rushed for 96 yards on 9 carries and did lots of that damage right up the middle.
I'm not foolish enough to predict how Payton will deploy his RBs and I think Ingram is a good player. This year maybe AK will remain in more of a limited role. But let's not confuse the role with the player. AK has the potential to be a lead back in his future and that future could come soon.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Size isn’t the problem, he just doesn’t run well inside. That’s why he watched from the bench in college.
electric Ape
Footballguy
We'll see. So far his NFL tape doesn't really support what you're saying. To be fair though his college tape (which I haven't completely watched) is a much bigger sample.
In the modern NFL where so many offensive coordinators strive for balance and versatility and personal sets that don't tip anything, I have a feeling Kamara's running ability will be plenty good enough to keep him on the field a lot
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I think Kamara looks like a much better version of McKinnon.
McKinnon is faster, but Kamara is bigger and can actually run through tackles and inside. Kamara also seems to have superior vision as a runner.
Neither guy was available in any of my leagues, but I would have went all-in on Kamara over McKinnon if given the choice. He's not Sproles either. He has a three down skill set, more like a Devonta Freeman type of RB.
It seems pretty clear they traded AD because of Kamara, not Ingram. I would expect to see Kamara featured even more as the season progresses.
And what a great crop of rookie RBs this year.
McKinnon is faster, but Kamara is bigger and can actually run through tackles and inside. Kamara also seems to have superior vision as a runner.
Neither guy was available in any of my leagues, but I would have went all-in on Kamara over McKinnon if given the choice. He's not Sproles either. He has a three down skill set, more like a Devonta Freeman type of RB.
It seems pretty clear they traded AD because of Kamara, not Ingram. I would expect to see Kamara featured even more as the season progresses.
And what a great crop of rookie RBs this year.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Armstead playing today. That man runs a downfield screen like a sunnuva... it will be fun watching Kamara today. Ramczyk on the right should be fun too. In the Dome, fast track & a meaningful game.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
I'm playing him in about 5 leagues including my most important one that is standard scoring and I have Ingram on the bench.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Starting him in the flex position and looking forward to seeing what he can do coming out of the bye.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
My chips are all in on Kamara, yet not exactly sleeping like a baby. Hopeful and looking forward to watching parts of this game. Yep, Lions fan for 50+ 
massraider
Footballguy
Super interesting to compare the state of mind of people posting in the Kamara vs. the Alex Collins thread.
One thread is about a high draft pick on an explosive offense, who in a few weeks carved out a big role over two higher drafted backs, one of whom has since left town.
The other is about a late pick, cut by a team, the lesser half of a time share with a pedestrian back in a stagnant offense, that doesn't catch passes.
Why are people trying to talk themselves out of Kamara? Weird.
One thread is about a high draft pick on an explosive offense, who in a few weeks carved out a big role over two higher drafted backs, one of whom has since left town.
The other is about a late pick, cut by a team, the lesser half of a time share with a pedestrian back in a stagnant offense, that doesn't catch passes.
Why are people trying to talk themselves out of Kamara? Weird.
NREC34
Footballguy
Was Kamara a pretty high draft pick in your league?
I drafted him 15th round I think.
massraider
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Kamara is unanimously considered to be a RB2 in PPR. Collins is unanimously considered unstartable. What are you talking about?
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
The fact that both Armstead and Peat are active today is huge. I'm pretty sure most NO homers thought at least one would be inactive for this game.
massraider
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Gotta get this guy more carries, he just rips off chunks of yards
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
This is very true but noteworthy now because in theory we are down to 2. That is until they re-sign Daniel Lasco and he starts getting 10 touches a game.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Were one of the main two to go down, who would pickup carries? Lasco or someone else?
packersfan
Footballguy
Saints looking a lot like the Falcons last year with Freeman and Coleman. Two damn good RBs who can be used in a variety of ways. As a Kamara owner, I'd love to see him get even more work but if last week is his floor with Ingram going off I'll happily take it. Love that he's just locked into the passing game every week.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
He is still kind of weak, but he's definitely been getting a lot of opportunities to run inside. In on most 3rd downs too,I think.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
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