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RB Jamaal Williams, NO (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter SaintsInDome2006
- Start date
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I thought he showed good burst, and the packers OL opened huge holes for him.
it also helped that they got an incredible game from their QB.
I was just talking about game speed in that particular play. A plodder would've been caught from behind by the CB.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Haven't been watching to be honest, but I will say the highlights/lowlights that I have seen from him, he looks better than he did preseason. Jones looks more explosive but Williams looks like he can hold his own. Still a little slow.
In dynasty I'd look to trade. At best this turns into a mess next year and your guess is as good as mine. I do think Jones has the tools to be great, but that's my well documented opinion. It's all a toss up right now. If I could get a 1st round pick for Williams I'd do it in a second. I'd probably do the same for Jones but be more reluctant because I really do have faith in Jones. On the flip side, I would probably trade a 1st round pick for Jones depending where I was looking to draft next year (top half no, bottom half yes)
In redraft I'd be starting him at RB2/flex
In dynasty I'd look to trade. At best this turns into a mess next year and your guess is as good as mine. I do think Jones has the tools to be great, but that's my well documented opinion. It's all a toss up right now. If I could get a 1st round pick for Williams I'd do it in a second. I'd probably do the same for Jones but be more reluctant because I really do have faith in Jones. On the flip side, I would probably trade a 1st round pick for Jones depending where I was looking to draft next year (top half no, bottom half yes)
In redraft I'd be starting him at RB2/flex
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Haven't seen it, no, but it's possible someone might look at Williams as the future of the backfield. Ty can't stay healthy and as these rookies have caught on he's looked like a WR converted to RB. But I think more of that is due to him playing hurt. Jones looked great but he is currently hurt and who knows how he looks when he comes back. Williams is the last man standing, and has a leg up on everyone for the starting job going forward at this point
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I still don't get the confidence in Jones. He had 2 good games out of 5 and one of those two games came with Rodgers. The other included a long TD run in which he made zero moves, just basically ran straight ahead. So I really haven't seen anything special out of Jones or Williams to separate them from the pack. Williams has shown better than Jones in my opinion, but again nothing special enough to warrant a clear 2013-2014 Lacy role going forward.
Williams has handled three straight games of 21-25 touches against stacked boxes, shown good pass blocking, and looked decent as a pass catcher. He's getting tough yards, but he's not breaking long gains as a runner. So he hasn't hurt his case for next year, but he hasn't made a strong case, either. The next five games will be his opportunity to fend off Jones, Montgomery, and reduce the odds of a rookie/FA coming in. Pretty nasty schedule for a running back, though. After Tampa this week, it's @ CLE, @ CAR, v. MIN. Has the opportunity for a nice week 17 @ DET, I guess.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Guess we can agree to disagree on that. We can debate this until August 2018, but I don't feel like that would be constructive. Jones is more athletic than Williams and more versatile. Williams has filled the gap nicely, but hasn't done much to WOW in my opinion. Jones did. But, again, we can agree to disagree. Not worth it because it's just a pissing contest of who's opinion is based on a better opinion.
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
Well, it all comes down in pass protection because bottom line Aaron Rodgers is the guy who is the centerpiece of Packers' offense. I think Packers will go RBBC next year with Ty, Jones, and Jamaal.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think Jamaal Williams has been alright over the last 3 weeks.
In regards to his game against the Steelers, his big catch on the screen was a blown coverage by Shazier who was faking the blitz too long and got caught out of position. No other Steelers defender was really in position to make the play. The corner back was blocked and the safety was too far away from the play to catch him in pursuit. Just a bad play on Shaziers part and Williams was fast enough to execute for the long catch and the TD.
I don't think that is something sustainable. He is doing pretty well on his other 12 receptions this year though and he is perhaps a better receiver than he is a runner? At least in terms of efficiency stats he has higher than average yards per reception, even if you take out the 54 yard TD while his yards per carry over the last 3 games still below average.
His TD late in the game came when the Steelers were doing some strange/interesting things on defense where they had no defenders on the line of scrimmage, especially no one lining up in the middle of the offensive line and just leaving things wide open for a run up the middle, which the Packers finally took advantage of with Williams for the TD. While I thought their defensive alignments were interesting as far as making it difficult to predict who might be rushing and who might be dropping into coverage, I did not think those fronts were capable of stopping run plays up the middle at all, and not something I usually see their defense doing.
In regards to his game against the Steelers, his big catch on the screen was a blown coverage by Shazier who was faking the blitz too long and got caught out of position. No other Steelers defender was really in position to make the play. The corner back was blocked and the safety was too far away from the play to catch him in pursuit. Just a bad play on Shaziers part and Williams was fast enough to execute for the long catch and the TD.
I don't think that is something sustainable. He is doing pretty well on his other 12 receptions this year though and he is perhaps a better receiver than he is a runner? At least in terms of efficiency stats he has higher than average yards per reception, even if you take out the 54 yard TD while his yards per carry over the last 3 games still below average.
His TD late in the game came when the Steelers were doing some strange/interesting things on defense where they had no defenders on the line of scrimmage, especially no one lining up in the middle of the offensive line and just leaving things wide open for a run up the middle, which the Packers finally took advantage of with Williams for the TD. While I thought their defensive alignments were interesting as far as making it difficult to predict who might be rushing and who might be dropping into coverage, I did not think those fronts were capable of stopping run plays up the middle at all, and not something I usually see their defense doing.
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Only two issues here.Dr. Dan said:
First, Jones hardly seems more versatile. He's not a powerful runner and he isn't a good pass blocker. Those are two key ingredients of being versatile. Without those, he seems more suited for a scat back role. Williams has shown he can carry the load, get tough yards through contact, pass block, and has been very effective as a receiver.
Second, what did Jones do to WOW anyone? He torched a mediocre Cowboys defense that was focused on Rodgers and he ran straight for a 48 yard TD against the Saints. Color me unimpressed, especially when you look at his other three duds. I'm not saying Williams has done much to wow anyone. Just that Jones hasn't, either.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
or maybe none of the above.Aznflyer14 said:
Interseptopus
Footballguy
He is a good pass blocker. He may not be powerful, but he is fast and elusive. 2 things Williams is not.
Again, we will have to disagree on Jones. From what I saw leading back to even preseason, he has looked like the best RB on the team. Very difficult to give him an absolute grade because of the QB situation, but I do think he has shown enough.
I think this may be very true. I do not think GB invests in the draft unless someone of some significant talent falls to them. They have 4 good RBs that they like. Mays has stumbled into the dog house. Williams has shown to be that between the tackle guy that they were hoping he'd be. Jones is the fastest RB they've had in the last maybe 2 decades, and Ty Montgomery has a definite role IMO. But you could be dead on here. I am not so sure they invest a high draft pick though given their problems at OL, TE, probably moving on from Hundley an taking another QB at some point in this deep draft, and CB still needs some help for depth once we move on from Randall and Rollins. Anything can happen I guess. Personally, I'd love for them to take a RB round 2 or 3 and get someone who is undisputed as a starter.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It's very possible that we see the same RB stable in Green Bay next season for sure. I surely wouldn't be trading first round picks away for any of these guys though as none of the are entrenched and there's plenty of things that could make them obsolete in a hurry.
I agree they likely will not spend a high pick at RB - but it is possible they will if some one falls into their lap like Lacy did in Round 2 as a stud type runner would only make this offense better. Also let's not forget that Williams and Jones were both late round picks in their own right so it's not like a fourth or fifth round pick at RB is no threat to them either. And while making a splash in free agency is not their style (like Bell or Hyde), there should be a few bargain type RBs available that could be a threat like Jerrick McKinnon, Doug Martin, Jeremy Hill or Isaiah Crowell.
I actually like Williams the best out of what they have now but none of these guys have shown enough to be irreplaceable.
I don't think there's any evidence that he's a good pass blocker and he's also not particularly fast (0.03 seconds faster 40 than Williams). Elusive is something that will have to be proven. Not enough data on that. To me, Jones is a poor man's Abdullah: he's quick but not nearly the the sparq score phenom that Abdullah is, he's small-ish but less durable than Abdullah, and he'll need to be elusive like Abdullah but hasn't proven to be yet. And look where Abdullah is after 2.5 years in the league.
We're all victims of seeing what we want to see from time to time. You seem to be basing your opinions off of preseason (historically not a very strong predictor) and five and a half games in which he didn't really do anything impressive. He was third on the depth chart entering the season and the drug charges and injury can't help his case going into next season. While I agree with you that Ted isn't likely to make a free agency splash or invest a lot in the position during the draft, I still don't think I'd even trade a 2nd for Jones.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Peak
Footballguy
Does Williams get the start this week, or is Ty Montgomery expected back for the game? With Freeman returning from concussion against a stout Minn Def, I'm considering Williams in his place. But if the GB role turns into a timeshare, then I'll have to figure out something else.
Sounds like Jones might be back. Not sure about Ty, either.
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/259472/packers-offense-could-run-and-pass-through-rookie-jamaal-williams
Peak
Footballguy
Thanks! Reading that article, seems the HC and OC have complete faith in Williams, which I have to think he gets first shot to hold the starting job if/when Jones/Montgomery come back.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Longtucky Lemmings
Footballguy
I could see a scenario in which they move toward a more New England style of RB utilization next season (and perhaps even the last quarter of this season).
Agree none of our current RBs have shown irreplaceable skills. I think the same could be said for Dion Lewis, James White, Rex Burkhead, and Mike Gilleslee but collectively they sure do seem to be helping the NE offense hum. I could see some combination of Williams, Jones, and Montgomery doing the same for the Packers.
If they go that route it opens up draft picks and free agent dollars for some more critical needs.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
I have Jamaal in over both Freeman and Dion Lewis (non-PPR) right now. Definitely waiting to hear about Ty, although he really hasn't been a factor in months and Jamaal seems more like a goal line guy anyway.
Johnnymac
Footballguy
I'm a Packer fan so take what I say with that in mind.
I like Williams a lot. I think he is the best back they drafted this year.
He runs hard, very efficient (no dancing around) he hits the hole. I also like how he finishes a run, something Montgomery does not do imo.
Added bonus is that he has been effective catching passes.
I wish I had him on my FF team as I think he is going to be the main guy.
I like Williams a lot. I think he is the best back they drafted this year.
He runs hard, very efficient (no dancing around) he hits the hole. I also like how he finishes a run, something Montgomery does not do imo.
Added bonus is that he has been effective catching passes.
I wish I had him on my FF team as I think he is going to be the main guy.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
TripleThreat
Footballguy
If Jones plays my decision is made easy, he’s out.
If Jones doesn’t play...I have a tough decision to make.
If Jones doesn’t play...I have a tough decision to make.
Conan Troutman
Footballguy
Same here - I'll start him over Collins, Kupp and Davis if Jones is out, if not I'll see how that backfield shakes out with Williams on my bench.
I'm the opposite. If Jones is out, Jamaal's a no-brainer for me. If he plays, I'll wait to hear what the workload is supposed to be like. It's going to take a lot for me to sub in DeMarco for him with his 1.8 YPC and bad matchup.
"Aaron Jones (knee) expected to return vs Bucs. ESPN's Adam Schefter made it clear Jamaal Williams is expected to "get most of the work" in Green Bay's backfield, however. Jones is worth stashing in 12-team leagues in case he outplays Williams and earns more work, but Williams is the more fantasy-valuable running back on the Packers at the moment."
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937186581869486080
So the decision is upon us. I'm still leaning towards starting him over DeMarco.
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937186581869486080
So the decision is upon us. I'm still leaning towards starting him over DeMarco.
TripleThreat
Footballguy
Good luck.
Rolling with Alex Collins...
Rolling with Alex Collins...
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Three straight carries on 1st and goal, Jamaal gets his 3rd TD of the season! Looking beastly today.
Did you guys see him "plod" his way through that defender for the TD? 
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2017120304/2017/REG13/Buccaneers@Packers?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2017120304#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000887370&tab=videos
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2017120304/2017/REG13/Buccaneers@Packers?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2017120304#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000887370&tab=videos
Football Jones
Footballguy
Williams is a brute. i loved the "smash arm" he gave the DB. Williams is starting to come on & play the way he did in college.
It'll be interesting to see what he can do with Rodgers whether it's this season or next. One of the reasons I liked Williams is the dynamics it gives their offense with a Rodgers/Williams combination.
Everything is coming together. They may work Jones in more, but Williams is looking like a feature back with his tackle-breaking ability & his pass-catching/pass pro chops. He also has underrated athleticism.
All the traits of a long-term feature back are there. It's just a matter of Williams playing loose & aggressive.
It'll be interesting to see what he can do with Rodgers whether it's this season or next. One of the reasons I liked Williams is the dynamics it gives their offense with a Rodgers/Williams combination.
Everything is coming together. They may work Jones in more, but Williams is looking like a feature back with his tackle-breaking ability & his pass-catching/pass pro chops. He also has underrated athleticism.
All the traits of a long-term feature back are there. It's just a matter of Williams playing loose & aggressive.
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JFS171
Footballguy
I'll admit I haven't read this entire thread, but I've read the last few pages. I don't think Williams is a plodder, but I also don't think he's tremendously elusive or quick. You don't have to be to have success at the RB position, but they certainly help. He's hard to tackle, and he drives through contact. He's a good pass protector (going back to training camp) and an adequate receiver. I just don't personally think he's special in any way, and typically I don't like to invest in those players in dynasty and keeper leagues (which is the vast majority of what I play).Did you guys see him "plod" his way through that defender for the TD?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2017120304/2017/REG13/Buccaneers@Packers?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2017120304#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000887370&tab=videos
Those guys can absolutely help you for a year or two ... they also tend to be the types the team looks to replace in search of a more special player.
That's not a Jones vs. Williams thing, though I've pretty clearly declared I'm in the Jones camp here. I just don't think Williams is special. I think Jones *might* be. I believe Jones is quicker, more elusive, and over time will prove to be a much better receiver. He's not the pass protector Williams is right now, but that can be taught, and we've not heard Jones in inept in pass pro. I think the team may feel getting 80% of Williams' power with an upgrade in every other aspect is better for them in the long run ... but what do I know?
Time will tell. It'll be fascinating to see how it plays out down the stretch.
ETA - the defender he went through for the TD was 203 lb S Chris Conte, and 246 lb Ripkowski was already engaged on Conte with the block, so the 212 lb Williams then drove through Conte for the score. Conte was facing a combined 450+ lbs 2v1 scenario ... it's not like Williams trucked a DE.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
I would agree with the above.
I've said time and time again Williams reminds me of James Starks. Nothing special but is reliable when put into the game. He'll have a few nice runs but overall his schtick will get old as he's not very creative/dynamic.
I am obviously in the Jones camp and I do think he could be something special, but at this point I'm not so sure. Any time Jones touches the ball I feel like he could bust it long. Williams, not so much.
I'm not invested in either from a fantasy football perspective.
As a Packer fan I'm very happy with how Williams is playing right now. He looks exactly how the Packers hoped he would when they drafted him. From a fantasy perspective I think this is kind of a nightmare for 2018 unless something gets sorted out these last 4 weeks. Something I'll probably avoid because people will likely be over-drafting these RBs hoping they hit, because if they do it'll be a big hit.
It wasn't directed at anyone in particular - it has been mentioned in the forum that he's a plodder, though, likely based on combine numbers.
I think you were the one that brought up the very relevant point of BMI, but after watching Williams run, do you see what I mean that he defies his BMI? The guy runs with power. I don't think Jones does, despite being a similar weight.
I'm not really advocating for anyone to trade the farm for Williams, but those of us who drafted him got him in the late 2nd or early 3rd round. Given RB bust rate, I'd say he's proven enough NFL capability in the past 4 games to give him better odds of a fruitful NFL career than a rookie in the late 1st of dynasty leagues, although I would need to look at 5+ years of old dynasty drafts to really back that up. I've always felt the odds started to get long around midway through the 1st round. I mean, we never feel that way in the moment, but the last time I looked at old drafts, that's what struck me.
I hear what you're saying about guys that only really help for a year or two, but how do you know when you're looking at a Devonta Freeman or Latavius Murray? I mean, seriously, look at their careers. Who would you have been betting on after 2015? They both were rocking 4.0 ypc, while Murray had the much better combine numbers. I'm not expecting Williams to become Peterson, but his upside is much higher than you suspect. I could see him turning into Freeman (starter contract) or Murray (backup contract). Although we both know GB won't be giving out a Freeman-esque contract to any RB.
I haven't seen enough of Jones or read enough about him to speak to his ability, but I did read about Jamaal coming out of college and I liked his fit with GB. They don't need a homerun threat at RB (not that Jones particularly is one, but that's the picture his owners like to paint). They need a guy that can get the tough yards and keep Rodgers upright. From a fantasy perspective, that means this player is likely getting goal line touches and playing passing downs. Don't get me wrong, pass catching backs who are crap at pass blocking and have no power (Woodhead for example) have found their way to fantasy relevance, but Williams skill set has a much easier path to relevance, IMO. Like you said, time will tell, but I think the Packers drafted Williams first for a reason and it is playing out now just as they'd hoped (except for the part where Rodgers got injured).
It wouldn't shock me to see them using Williams and Jones next year in a Murray/McKinnon or Freeman/Coleman type of fashion, except that so far this year they've been rolling with one guy for 80%+ of the snaps. If they continue that, my money is on Williams... and if that happens, he'll be a top 10 fantasy RB based on volume and opportunity even if he's a middling talent like some think.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Williams played well...made some good cuts and has that power working well right now. That with defenses lined up not respecting us through the air.
What we saw too...Jones won't just go away. This will be a combo that could be maddenning FF wise but work out very well for Green Bay.
What we saw too...Jones won't just go away. This will be a combo that could be maddenning FF wise but work out very well for Green Bay.
Gawain
Footballguy
Any early guesses as to how Jones/Williams shake out next week. Sat Williams this week with Jones playing for Diggs. I think I need one of these guys in my lineup for next week, but will Williams get 20 touches again, especially with Jones' little scamper to close out the game?
How much can we read into who runs with the first team during practices this week?
How much can we read into who runs with the first team during practices this week?
Football Jones
Footballguy
Jones makes a nice CoP. Not every RB is drafted to be a feature back.
Jones is looking like he can fill that niche as a guy not physical or dynamic enough to be a feature back, but play a key role as a backup. Those guys are valuable to teams.
That said, I'm not discounting Jones because the story isn't written yet, but Williams has the traits to be a feature back & Jones is lagging in that department, IMO.
Key point is the dynamics of a Rodgers/Williams offense with lighter boxes. Williams can excel there because one broken tackle & you're typically in the secondary. I'm sure thst's one of the reasons Green Bay drafted Williams over Jones.
Jones is looking like he can fill that niche as a guy not physical or dynamic enough to be a feature back, but play a key role as a backup. Those guys are valuable to teams.
That said, I'm not discounting Jones because the story isn't written yet, but Williams has the traits to be a feature back & Jones is lagging in that department, IMO.
Key point is the dynamics of a Rodgers/Williams offense with lighter boxes. Williams can excel there because one broken tackle & you're typically in the secondary. I'm sure thst's one of the reasons Green Bay drafted Williams over Jones.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Williams makes a nice between the tackles/ short yardage back. Not every RB is drafted to be a featured back
Williams is looking like he can fill that niche as a guy not explosive of dynamic enough to be a feature back, but play a key role as a backup. Those guys are valuable to teams.
That said, I'm not discounting Williams because the story isn't written yet, but Jones has the traits to be a feature back & Williams is lagging in that department IMO
Key point is the dynamics of a Rodgers/Jones offense with lighter boxes. Jones can excel there because one broken tackle & you're typically in the secondary. I'm sure thst's one of the reasons Green Bay drafted Jones along side Williams.
Williams is looking like he can fill that niche as a guy not explosive of dynamic enough to be a feature back, but play a key role as a backup. Those guys are valuable to teams.
That said, I'm not discounting Williams because the story isn't written yet, but Jones has the traits to be a feature back & Williams is lagging in that department IMO
Key point is the dynamics of a Rodgers/Jones offense with lighter boxes. Jones can excel there because one broken tackle & you're typically in the secondary. I'm sure thst's one of the reasons Green Bay drafted Jones along side Williams.
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Keep hope alive, I guess, but that didn't work as well in reverse.In all seriousness, assuming they don't run a true 3-way RBBC, who do you think has the best odds of getting 50%+ of the snaps (per healthy game) next season? I'll go first:
Jamaal Williams - 50% chance
Someone not on the current roster - 35% chance
Aaron Jones - 10% chance
Ty Montgomery - 5% chance
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
When you write "someone not on the roster" what are you expecting? A draft pick? A free agent signing?
In all seriousness, assuming they don't run a true 3-way RBBC, who do you think has the best odds of getting 50%+ of the snaps (per healthy game) next season? I'll go first:
Jamaal Williams - 50% chance
Someone not on the current roster - 35% chance
Aaron Jones - 10% chance
Ty Montgomery - 5% chance
