elshagon
Footballguy
Another guy that can't detect sarcasm.
I'm a Packer fan. I'm thrilled.
That he can't detect sarcasm?
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RB Aaron Jones, MIN (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
Football Jones
Footballguy
I wished Williams was healthy enough to get a fair amount of touches in this game to see what he could do. Jones was productive, but without Lee, I can tell you as a Cowboys fan our run defense is lost without him. That was horrendous.
If I owned Jones, I'd be looking to move him as of now. I don't own him in any leagues, but I'm curious what you could get. You might could really make out in a deal. Jones is similar to Abdullah, who I've been advocating to trade at the first good opportunity. This could very well be that time for Jones.
I've been very successful vetting out which smaller RBs can be feature backs & I'm really confident Jones' ceiling is as a CoP (long-term). Smaller RBs need an elite package of escapability, quickness, long speed, etc, to overcome their size disadvantage & those guys are as rare as hen's teeth.
I'm curious to see how the Green Bay RBs shake out long-term.
If I owned Jones, I'd be looking to move him as of now. I don't own him in any leagues, but I'm curious what you could get. You might could really make out in a deal. Jones is similar to Abdullah, who I've been advocating to trade at the first good opportunity. This could very well be that time for Jones.
I've been very successful vetting out which smaller RBs can be feature backs & I'm really confident Jones' ceiling is as a CoP (long-term). Smaller RBs need an elite package of escapability, quickness, long speed, etc, to overcome their size disadvantage & those guys are as rare as hen's teeth.
I'm curious to see how the Green Bay RBs shake out long-term.
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Slider
Footballguy
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Funny that you mention Abdullah. I'm going to try to drop him for Jones. Even if both players get the same touches/game, I would rather have the RB in the GB O. Jones looks like a good RB in a great O.
Football Jones
Footballguy
It's not an exact comparison, but Abdullah & Jones are pretty similar players, IMO.
I can't even begin to explain how bad Dallas' run defense was today. Not playing proper technique & being out of position causes all kinds of problems when attempting to contain a RB. Night & day difference when Sean Lee is in there. It's ridiculous (& I'm Cowboys fan).
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Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
He has a 30.7 BMI. You can trust your gut but your success has been based on luck. I’ll trust the numbers. He’s big enough to be a full time NFL RB.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I can tell you my success isn't based on luck, but everyone is welcome to their opinion. No problem.
I'm not a BMI guy. As a former wrestler, weight is my main concern. There's obviously more to it than weight & I'm not saying bigger is better, but I believe smaller RBs need specific high end traits to survive with all the big, fast athletes on D in today's NFL. You can make up for some of that if you're extremely strong & physical for your size, but that's not Jones.
220 is about the cutoff where I don't worry too much about about size & concentrate on other attributes. And again, there's more to it than weight. For instance, you can be a soft 220 which negates your size advantage. In general, though, the farther you get away from 220 or so the more the specific high end traits come into play for me. It's a "system" I've used with great success to determine who has the potential to be a feature back, which is the key to RB scouting, IMO.
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Monty can't run between the tackles like Jones...it's a matter of time...I expect Monty to miss another week, so let's see how Jones fares against a stiff Minny D
JohnnyU
Footballguy
zamboni
Footballguy
Given the injuries at the position, I think it might very well be an RBBC. Montgomery brings a lot to the table but it is still a converted WR. Jones seems to be a more natural runner, and they can complement each other well.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
High end traits like an 88th percentile burst score and an 86th percentile agility score. College production that landed him in the 90th percentile of YPC, target share and share of his teams offensive production. Your opinion isn’t based on anything other than a subjective eyeball analysis and you should use BMI because your eyes and head are lying to you to think Jones isn’t capable of carrying an NFL share at 208 lbs. Numbers don’t lie. You may indeed be correct that he gets hurt but every player that has ever played a down in the NFL has gotten hurt. It won’t be because he doesn’t have the size to play.
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Again, Waldman said Jones was the best receiving RB in this draft class--Monty is excellent out of the backfield, but should spell Jones from time to time
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I have a quote somewhere in here, or maybe it's in the RB lotto thread where the coaches in GB have flat out said, people that go RBBC go RBBC because they don't have 1 RB. GB wants 1 guy. They have never run RBBC except for Lacy/Starks splitting time 2 years ago because Lacy was fat and ineffective, and Starks looked a little better but both were pretty terrible.
this is
IMHO when Ty comes back he is the starter. He looked really good to start the season, although his stats don't neccessarily show it. I think the most of RBBC we could see in GB is one of two scenarios:
1. Ty gets 2 series to Jones' 1. This works out well in other parts of the league. It's the most common RBBC that we see.
2. Ty is more of an option on passing downs, flexed out as a slot guy. Jones is the lead dog in the backfield getting the lion's share of the carries
If GB goes any kind of RBBC, one of the above is what I think will happen. Certainly could be something I have not mentioned above but that just seems more far fetched given GB's history.
I said in the preseason, Ty doesn't appear to be a feature back. He looked better to start the season, but he is perpetually banged up. I think a lot of him getting banged up has to do with how he runs. And that's likely from inexperience at the RB position. Guys who play RB know how to take a hit to protect their bodies better so they can hold up to a season long beating. Some guys just don't do that as well and they get beat up easier.
Jones has all the tools to be a feature back. Something Jamaal Williams does not. This is why I got on this train since the day after the draft; Jones looks special and he is so athletic. He has it between the ears. Typically guys who are athletic and are dumb as rocks or make stupid choices never get the chance to fulfill on their athletic gifts. Jones doesn't seem to be that way.
Mays is another one I like in the GB backfield, but Jones has cemented himself as the go to in the backfield in the absence of Ty. I still stand by my preseason prediction that by the end of the season Jones is the lead dog, but I don't think that happens toda. If Ty comes back and is ineffective, and Jones is, then yes it's a no brainer. Following week 8... it'll be
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Williams came in for one play that I saw (afrer Jones had already piled up a lot of yards. When he did they ran up the middle with him for a minimal gain. That didn't last long before Jones cane back in.
What criteria are you using to differentiate smaller RB who can be featured RB vs ones who can only become change of pace besides weight and stature? And what determines if a RB is smaller or not?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
One thing I did not like about how the Packers were using Jones is that the majority of his runs were to the outside.
He has the speed and burst to win the edge, so that is a good thing. To be a featured RB (in my opinion) they need to be able to run inside a bit more than I saw from this game however.
Jones TD run was an inside run and I have seen Jones do fine running inside in college. So its not that I don't think he is capable of being used in this way, just that I didn't see the Packers use him in that way enough, so that makes me wonder why? Especially considering their offensive tackles are not very healthy right now? This may just be due to game planning. Perhaps the Cowboys defense is especially weak defending the outside run? Just something that I still question a bit since they didn't have Jones run inside very often.
Overall I think he looked good. The Vikings game should tell us more about his capabilities. They do not have a problem stopping the outside running game, in fact they often force teams to run inside (like Ameer) if they want to be successful. The Vikings defense is very fast to the edge against runs as well as against the screen game.
He has the speed and burst to win the edge, so that is a good thing. To be a featured RB (in my opinion) they need to be able to run inside a bit more than I saw from this game however.
Jones TD run was an inside run and I have seen Jones do fine running inside in college. So its not that I don't think he is capable of being used in this way, just that I didn't see the Packers use him in that way enough, so that makes me wonder why? Especially considering their offensive tackles are not very healthy right now? This may just be due to game planning. Perhaps the Cowboys defense is especially weak defending the outside run? Just something that I still question a bit since they didn't have Jones run inside very often.
Overall I think he looked good. The Vikings game should tell us more about his capabilities. They do not have a problem stopping the outside running game, in fact they often force teams to run inside (like Ameer) if they want to be successful. The Vikings defense is very fast to the edge against runs as well as against the screen game.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I know you don't particularly like RBs who run more on the outside (nor do I). I agree, they aren't using him to his 100% capacity. He is so fast, he can run outside and outrun many defenders, but he is good inside as well. I agree- why is the question and if he can run against the Vikings we will know who he is. They are very good on defense
Football Jones
Footballguy
I get it. You like Jones & the story isn't written yet.
I'm simply sharing my thoughts & explaining my success with vetting out smaller RBs. I totally understand those who want to ignore it.
That's what this board is all about (opinions & analysis).
Football Jones
Footballguy
Jones does have some nice qualities, but I'm specifically talking about traits that will allow him to be a long-term feature back.
Football Jones
Footballguy
In case you missed it, here's what I wrote recently:
I'm not a BMI guy. As a former wrestler, weight is my main concern. There's obviously more to it than weight & I'm not saying bigger is better, but I believe smaller RBs need specific high end traits to survive with all the big, fast athletes on D in today's NFL. You can make up for some of that if you're extremely strong & physical for your size, but that's not Jones.
220 is about the cutoff where I don't worry too much about about size & concentrate on other attributes. And again, there's more to it than weight. For instance, you can be a soft 220 which negates your size advantage. In general, though, the farther you get away from 220 or so the more the specific high end traits come into play for me. It's a "system" I've used with great success to determine who has the POTENTIAL to be a feature back, which is the key to RB scouting, IMO.
That sums it up in a very general sense.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
You’re not offering analysis. You haven’t posted one number. You offer up conjecture and false prophecy.
LivingTheDream
Footballguy
Jones averaged 3.85 yards before contact against Dallas. Ty Mont is at 1.1 yards before contact for the season.
Dallas might have the worst run defense in the league without Sean Lee and they got manhandled by the GB line.
Jones looked really good though. Excited to see how he looks against a real defense next week.
Dallas might have the worst run defense in the league without Sean Lee and they got manhandled by the GB line.
Jones looked really good though. Excited to see how he looks against a real defense next week.
Football Jones
Footballguy
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Football Jones
Footballguy
I'm not sure what you want me to post, LOL. Much of my opinion is based on subjectiveness, but that's the core of scouting.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
“I’m not a BMI guy” means that you haven’t taken more then five minutes to understand RB builds. BMI is not an end all be all metric and neither is “well RB’s should be 220 lbs”. BMI is simply a metric that shows whether an RB has a build that would be made up to be a feature back. Ryan Matthews is 220 lbs but his BMI is 29.8 which is less than Jones. These are tools and tools you should be using. Not walking into a thread and telling people he’s too small because you’re a hustler and former wrestler. No one cares.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Even if Jones could be a feature back I doubt he is when Montgomery is healthy. Montgomery would be a great 3rd down/CoP. He could be a better version of Sproles/Woodhead/Riddick. A guy that could see 5 to 10 runs a game plus catch 5+ passes, with Jones being the 1st,2nd and short yardage back. If they are both healthy you have low running back 2's/flex guys, if one of them is injured you have a low end rb1.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
He has traits that will allow him to be a long term feature back and certainly more than Williams.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I've been a football fan for almost 50 years. I can assure you I understand BMI.
I really think you're taking my posts the wrong way. Not sure what else to say.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
I welcome your opinion. Also, to clear something up, I'm not saying Williams will be a future feature back, just that he's got the potential to be a feature back (which is why I liked him more than Jones).
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Football Jones
Footballguy
BTW, my opinions on Jones & most other players I talk about are dynasty-based. Jones could have some real redraft value.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Jones looked fantastic to me on video, that's why I drafted him in so many leagues. I think you are missing the boat on Jones' dynasty potential.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
If you’ve watched for 50 years how do you believe this fallacy you’ve created then?I've been a football fan for 50 years. I can assure you I understand BMI.
I really think you're taking my posts the wrong way. Not sure what else to say.
Emmitt Smith 5’9 216
Barry Sanders 5’8 200
Walter Peyton 5’10 200
Curtis Martin 5’10 210
Ladanian Tomlinson 5’10 216
Aaron Jones 5’9 208
Football Jones
Footballguy
You haven't been paying attention to my posts. I specifically said, "I believe smaller RBs need specific high end traits to survive with all the big, fast athletes on D in today's NFL."
I'm not sure Emmitt weighed that much, but all those guys you mentioned would still pass my criteria. You also just listed Jones among the best RBs of all time.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Jones is certainly worth a draft pick. The fact you own him in many leagues could be a real boon to you if he does hit.
Football Jones
Footballguy
BTW, not saying Jones is too small. Smaller RBs are ok, even in today's NFL, if they have specific high end traits.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
He just desperately wants Jamaal Williams to work out. It's clear; he's the only one pissing in the "Jones-eerios "
Football Jones said in a previous page that he drafted Williams and Jones was still on the board. Well, of course; anyone who drafted Jones ahead of Williams was over-drafting. Jones had great round 4+ value in dynasty as the best all around back the Packers drafted.
This is the epitome of what these boards have come to. Someone isn't invested in the back, or he's invested in the alternative, and he is in that thread as the only Negative Nancy without much to add to the conversation except to say that Player X isn't good enough but Player Y is. We see it and saw it for pages in the Collins thread; many Allen owners tried to rain on that parade. And we are seeing it here.
I own no one in the GB backfield. I wish I had Jones. I wanted to grab him after week 5. I have short benches and I couldn't do it. I didn't want to blow my FAAB either on him since I blew a bunch on Cohen. I hope Ty comes back and takes the reigns completely so that the Jones owner drops him (fickle owners in my league + short bench = opportunity for me) and I can grab him up.
I think Ty goes back to WR and gets some snaps at RB. This Jones kid is the starter from here on out, fellas
Interseptopus
Footballguy
This is such a back handed compliment
Football Jones
Footballguy
This is similar to the flak I received when I wasn't high on Abdullah coming out. FFers are passionate. I get it.
I'm simply sharing my thoughts like everyone else. All I can say is take my opinions however you want. Everybody gets to decide who they want to listen to on this board.
I'm simply sharing my thoughts like everyone else. All I can say is take my opinions however you want. Everybody gets to decide who they want to listen to on this board.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I have paid attention, you haven’t paid attention to mine. I pointed out your “elite metrics” that Jones has and you ignored them.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
If you are insinuating that Ty would line up as a slot type back and Jones would be in the backfield, I would agree with you. If you are saying that he will switch back to WR, I disagree. Ty spent the last 12 months converting to RB. I am not so sure he switches back to WR completely. Jones hasn't been that amazing
Football Jones
Footballguy
LOL. He's not too small if he's got the rights traits. That's my point.
This is such a back handed compliment
hardcoredx
Footballguy
If Jordy has a serious non contact injury than I can see Montgomery being used more as wr.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
They like Allison and Ty hasn't been to a WR meeting in 12 months. Just not sure it'll happen. They have good depth at WR. Sure, it could happen, but I don't see it.
Ty is a better RB than he is a WR
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Football Jones
Footballguy
You couldn't be more wrong. I like many players I don't own. You seem to think this is about Williams. We're talking about Jones here & the reasons for my doubt. My doubt about Jones has nothing to do with Williams.
You're assuming I adjust my ranking to who I own. Turrible, turrible, turrible.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
So much for "I like many players I don't own"rosters are driven by who you like. If I liked Jones more, he'd be on my roster because he was on the board when I took Williams.
Keep digging that hole
And it is about Williams because your only counter to Jones being "the man" in this backfield is that you like Williams more.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
I can totally understand guys defending Jones & telling me I'm wrong, but you have no clue, LOL (no offense meant).
So, let me summarize Football Jones posts...
He was a wrestler.
Weight is the issue not BMI. Not really relevant in football, bud. Sorry.
He owns Williams and desperately wants him to supplant Ty. Although, he can't even impress the coaches enough to start over Jones, the midget. Big guys are his favorite. I'll take a Faulk or Smith instead of an Ironhead or Bettis any day. ANY...DAY.
Obviously, hasn't really watched each carry Jones had in the DAL or CHI game. Kid is explosive, tough and can run between tackles. NOT a scat back. Get over his weight, man. Appreciate the results. Wiliams will be borderline inactive/3rd string going forward. Jones's work should make Ty very, very nervous.
He was a wrestler.
Weight is the issue not BMI. Not really relevant in football, bud. Sorry.
He owns Williams and desperately wants him to supplant Ty. Although, he can't even impress the coaches enough to start over Jones, the midget. Big guys are his favorite. I'll take a Faulk or Smith instead of an Ironhead or Bettis any day. ANY...DAY.
Obviously, hasn't really watched each carry Jones had in the DAL or CHI game. Kid is explosive, tough and can run between tackles. NOT a scat back. Get over his weight, man. Appreciate the results. Wiliams will be borderline inactive/3rd string going forward. Jones's work should make Ty very, very nervous.
