Too Long - Didn't Read Version (TLDR) version: Apologies for letting the board get off track. We want to get back to Keep it PG Rated and Be Excellent To One Another and that's how we're going to moderate the board.
Long Version:
A few things.
First. I apologize. These things I'm talking about below on how we operate the boards aren't new things in principle. But I realize they've not been consistently in place in practice. I let things drift off course too much and for that I apologize. I think we're seeing some righting of things with our sub forums and I apologize for letting us get off track. The good news is I feel completely confident we'll be back on track.
Second, consider this a reset. What's past is past from us. Please let's look at this as from now going forward. I know there have been slights and wrongs. I'm asking that you let us move forward from here.
Third. This is a lot of words. If something isn't clear you, please comment and let me know. But please this is not going to be an argument for "I want to say curse words" or "I want to talk about ___ and you won't let me".
Lastly and most importantly, thanks for being part of the boards. If you're reading this and giving us your time, that's important to us. We want you to be able to keep reading this. But there are some strings attached in how we need to operate. Thanks.
Below is a draft of our Footballguys Forums Manifesto. It's painfully long but I wanted to be clear.
*************
Hi Footballguy,
Thanks for being part of the Forums. They are what they are literally because of you people. Thank you.
If you're new to our Forums, we should tell you that we're different. Mostly in that the forums are heavily moderated. If you want to post here, we're going to require that you abide by how we operate.
Here's the short version: Keep it PG Rated and Be Excellent To One Another
If you're not able to do this, your account will be suspended. Suspensions range from anywhere from a few hours to a few days to forever. Our moderators are nice people but by and large not patient. It takes a few seconds to suspend an account and that's their only real way to help keep things between the lines.
So again, Keep it PG Rated and Be Excellent To One Another and you'll be good.
Here's the VERY LONG version.
A Message Board Manifesto
Never in history have we had more ways to express ourselves and have our message heard by others. It's a fantastic time to be alive. A message board is one of those ways. And our Footballguys Forums are our tiny corner of the world for this discussion.
Whether it's NFL Talk in the Shark Pool or Grilling Recipes in the Free For All, there are some things we do differently that make us who we are.
Namely, the board is heavily moderated. And we realize full well consistency is our toughest challenge when it comes to moderating. It's like the sports analogy of a referee. Some refs call a game tightly and some call the game loosely when it comes to what they'll allow. Both styles can be ok as long as they're consistent. Where it gets troublesome is if they swing back and forth between the two.
We get that and we'll do our best to be consistent as moderators. But know that it's a challenge. Which probably means this: If in doubt, assume the moderators are strict. If you're about to post something and you have some hesitancy as to whether it's over the line, assume it's over the line.
For specifics, here's a long list of what we're trying to do and not do and how we're operating.
Let's get this out of the way early: I absolutely, totally understand this may be too strict for you. It's certainly more strict than how most sports forums operate. We get this. This isn't news to us. I understand it's counter cultural and we accept that. We've been able to build a great community over the years operating this way and this is how we are going to operate. Is it the right way? I don't know. I just know it's going to be our way.
Here's what we DON'T want on the Forums:
- No Illegal stuff. This probably goes without saying but I'll say it. That can mean lots of things. From how to watch pirated movies to how to obtain / use illegal drugs to how to damage things. Basically, assume the Police / CIA / FBI and everyone else are reading this. They probably are. There are places on the internet where that kind of stuff is talked about. Please don't do it here. One of the most serious ways this can happen is threats to other posters or threats to public figures. We live in an age where there is no such thing as a "joking" threat.
- No personal attacks or saying mean things about posters. I know that sounds like Sunday School but I'm not sure how to say it any better. Basically don't be mean or rude. I'm especially sensitive to the group dynamics where the cool kids call out the not cool kids with the "nobody likes you here" or stuff like that. Message board cliques are sad. And maybe it's true and people don't like a guy. But I don't want that kind of thing here. And definitely no calling posters dumb or stupid or backwards or anything uncool.
- No racist or sexist comments. Again, this should go without saying but I'll say it. There are gray areas where sometimes people disagree. But most people know what will work. Again, if you think to yourself, "I wonder if someone will think this is racist / sexist?" it's probably not something you want to post. And remember, you don't get to decide. Other people decide.
- Please don't use aliases. We know some people have more than one name. If you are suspended, that means you, the person, are suspended. Not just your alias. And yes, there are ways to make it more difficult for us to detect. But the bottom line is if we think you're using an alias while on suspension, that alias name will be suspended too. Usually forever.
- Please don't use profanity. I know this one is controversial as it's become way more accepted in society. I'm old school and I'm sticking to this. Let's make it a personal challenge to you guys as I believe it takes more effort and intelligence to write and express yourself without profanity. And it's good for you to think a little bit more.
That includes abbreviations like GFY and others. And please do not use the pound signs like ### or assume the language filter will "do it's job". In other words, don't assume you can say whatever you want and the language filter will take care of everything. The language filter is an emergency thing. There is also a seriousness level attached to how it's used. "What the #### is going in here?" is not what we want but it's on one level. "Go #### yourself" is an instant suspension. We're going to operate under the assumption that you're smart and know what you're doing. As a general rule, avoid language that has to be bleeped out. And never use that kind of language in a personal attack.
- Please keep it PG / Family Rated / Safe For Work. Again, this one is blurry and can be difficult as the spectrum is broad. We don't want pornography links on the board. We don't want the "would you ...?" posts. But the "who's hottest?" polls are a scale. It may be beauty pageant pics then it goes to skimpy bathing suits to the almost nude pics. Clearly, Sports Illustrated and now ESPN are in that conversation. This is one area where we'll be more conservative than SI or ESPN. I'm not sure where the right answer is but I don't think we have to cater to the lowest denominator there. And one thing that makes us different than SI or ESPN is we have comments and discussion to go with it. It's one thing to have a picture. It's another when guys are making comments. I know it's fun to laugh at my "that's someone's daughter" but it's how I want us to operate. Ask yourself if you'd be comfortable with the comments if that was your sister or daughter in the picture.
- Please no Trolling or Triggers. Trolls always do the "who me?" defense when called out. But it's clear to everyone what you're doing when people are posting with the intent of trying to get a reaction. Clayton gave me this definition of Trolling that feels spot on: making a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them. If we feel you're trying to just rile up people and start a fight, you'll be suspended.
Same with Triggers. People know there are words or phrases or pics that set some people off. Please don't use those. For President Obama, it was making sure to refer to him as Barak Hussein Obama. President Trump has plenty of those too. Please let's try to be cool with those. You know what they are and you know what you're doing when you use them.
- Please don't make sweeping generalizations. Sweeping generalizations are always a bad idea. (see what I did there) My biggest problem with them is not just that they're lazy, but that they kill discussion. There is little upside in negative statements like the "Packer fans are ..." or "Ezekiel Elliott owners are ..." type stuff. Or claiming everyone feels a certain way. "All people from this state are ..." or "If you voted for X then you are ..." Generalizations are the the hallmark of lazy writing. Be specific. And don't make assumptions for an entire group.
- Please don't hold a grudge. Our boards have been going a long time and many posters have been here for much if not all of that time. That's plenty of opportunities to offend AND be offended. Sometimes, the best thing by far is to realize this is just a message board and not let something bother you. In the same way, don't intentionally antagonize other users, even if it's just small stuff. Inside joke avatars are a common way this is done. Be the bigger person and let stuff go.
- Please don't use the board for advertising. We put a great deal of effort into building our community. The forums aren't a "market" to pitch your product or website. No, "check out my rankings here" or "try this app out" stuff. And yes, I know some will try to get around it with a "Can you guys recommend a website for ...." and then people magically start recommending your website. It's easy to see what's happening there and please don't do it.
- Please don't waste the moderator's time. Moderating a board is zero fun. Please don't do things that you know are causing the moderators more work.
I'd much rather focus on what we DO want. And I realize this will feel like hand holding "can't we just get along" type stuff. But I'm entirely convinced it helps make a board successful.
What we DO want on the Forums:
- Focus more on what you think and why you think it. Take advantage of this amazing chance to communicate with people from all over the world. Talk more about what YOU think than criticizing what others think. Trust me, you'll be WAY more interesting to people.
- Realize this is a community. It's sappy and cliche but please don't forget these are real people posting. Many are extraordinary and / or have extraordinary things going on in their lives. So please give them the benefit of the doubt. The guy who is angry on line may very well have crushing things going on his real life. Cut him some slack. Maybe even try to understand.
- Be curious. You know what you think. When someone writes something you disagree with, you have a couple of choices. The easiest is to mock and say something snarky as you tell them how wrong they are. A much better alternative is to ask the person why they think what they think. That does several things. #1 - it puts the ball in their court and let's them elaborate on the thought. #2 - they very often refine their position after thinking about it further and explaining it and #3 - you'll likely see the tone soften as they realize you'd like to have a conversation and discussion instead of an argument.
- Listen - Understand - Talk. This one comes from Stephen Covey's rule of Seek First To Understand. Then To Be Understood. What he means there is make sure you are hearing what the other person is saying. Making sure you're clear on what they're saying is necessary before you make your point back to them. We've all been in conversations where the other person was more interested in talking than listening. Those conversations usually suck. You'll be surprised how many times this saves you the time of replying as what you thought they were saying wasn't what they were saying.
- Think about the things that encourage and discourage conversation. I see a message board forum like a game of Scrabble. The posters I want to participate with are like the Scrabble players who play a long word that opens the board. In other words, posters that encourage more conversation. The opposite is true as well. The Scrabble player that drops a three letter word is like the forum poster that shuts down conversation. Don't be that guy.
Ways to encourage? Easy. Ask things like "What do you think?" Ask for clarity. Be humble. If you pop into a thread and there are people discussing things who're more well versed on the subject, be cool and admit it. They'll be way more likely to help. Don't act like you know everything. Nobody wants to have a discussion with the guy who's arrogant. Be nice. Be kind. Basically it's like real life.
Ways to discourage? Do the opposite. Tell everyone what you think without regard for what they think. Disregard other people and their opinions. Act like you know everything when you don't. Throw shade at the other posters with snarky jabs. Again, like real life.
- Let it go. This is the flipside to "Don't Hold A Grudge". It's a message board. And for even the most talented writers this medium can be a terrible way to communicate. Show more grace than anger. If someone's offended you, err more on the side of letting it go instead of looking for a way to "get them back". Trust me.
- Give more than you take. For this I mean be a poster that contributes to the board. This is a Community. Give back more than you receive. If you don't think you have something to contribute, you're wrong. Find what that is for you. Another way of looking at it is be the kind of person people will miss if you weren't here.
- Realize this isn't a debate competition and you likely aren't going to change minds. There is no "winner" in threads. And if you're looking for a guy to post, "Wow, you totally changed my mind on this", you're likely to be disappointed. At best, you can hope to quietly influence a person's thinking on an issue. And that's fine.
- Get real life community. I can't stress how strongly I believe in this one. As fun as the forums are, they're at best a poor substitute for real life community. You may live in a place where like minded people are hard to find. I get it. Or you may have anxiety or things that make real life community challenging. I get that too. I'll say though that it's most healthy to let these forums be an "add on" to your real life community. Focus on real life first and then here on the forums. The good news is I think you'll find the exact same principles apply. What works in real life relationships are the same things that will work here.
- Last one. Know when to take a break. Social interaction online can be addicting. Know yourself and know when it's time to step away for a break. This relates to the real life community thing but please don't neglect the people closest to you in favor of a message board.
Long Version:
A few things.
First. I apologize. These things I'm talking about below on how we operate the boards aren't new things in principle. But I realize they've not been consistently in place in practice. I let things drift off course too much and for that I apologize. I think we're seeing some righting of things with our sub forums and I apologize for letting us get off track. The good news is I feel completely confident we'll be back on track.
Second, consider this a reset. What's past is past from us. Please let's look at this as from now going forward. I know there have been slights and wrongs. I'm asking that you let us move forward from here.
Third. This is a lot of words. If something isn't clear you, please comment and let me know. But please this is not going to be an argument for "I want to say curse words" or "I want to talk about ___ and you won't let me".
Lastly and most importantly, thanks for being part of the boards. If you're reading this and giving us your time, that's important to us. We want you to be able to keep reading this. But there are some strings attached in how we need to operate. Thanks.
Below is a draft of our Footballguys Forums Manifesto. It's painfully long but I wanted to be clear.
*************
Hi Footballguy,
Thanks for being part of the Forums. They are what they are literally because of you people. Thank you.
If you're new to our Forums, we should tell you that we're different. Mostly in that the forums are heavily moderated. If you want to post here, we're going to require that you abide by how we operate.
Here's the short version: Keep it PG Rated and Be Excellent To One Another
If you're not able to do this, your account will be suspended. Suspensions range from anywhere from a few hours to a few days to forever. Our moderators are nice people but by and large not patient. It takes a few seconds to suspend an account and that's their only real way to help keep things between the lines.
So again, Keep it PG Rated and Be Excellent To One Another and you'll be good.
Here's the VERY LONG version.
A Message Board Manifesto
Never in history have we had more ways to express ourselves and have our message heard by others. It's a fantastic time to be alive. A message board is one of those ways. And our Footballguys Forums are our tiny corner of the world for this discussion.
Whether it's NFL Talk in the Shark Pool or Grilling Recipes in the Free For All, there are some things we do differently that make us who we are.
Namely, the board is heavily moderated. And we realize full well consistency is our toughest challenge when it comes to moderating. It's like the sports analogy of a referee. Some refs call a game tightly and some call the game loosely when it comes to what they'll allow. Both styles can be ok as long as they're consistent. Where it gets troublesome is if they swing back and forth between the two.
We get that and we'll do our best to be consistent as moderators. But know that it's a challenge. Which probably means this: If in doubt, assume the moderators are strict. If you're about to post something and you have some hesitancy as to whether it's over the line, assume it's over the line.
For specifics, here's a long list of what we're trying to do and not do and how we're operating.
Let's get this out of the way early: I absolutely, totally understand this may be too strict for you. It's certainly more strict than how most sports forums operate. We get this. This isn't news to us. I understand it's counter cultural and we accept that. We've been able to build a great community over the years operating this way and this is how we are going to operate. Is it the right way? I don't know. I just know it's going to be our way.
Here's what we DON'T want on the Forums:
- No Illegal stuff. This probably goes without saying but I'll say it. That can mean lots of things. From how to watch pirated movies to how to obtain / use illegal drugs to how to damage things. Basically, assume the Police / CIA / FBI and everyone else are reading this. They probably are. There are places on the internet where that kind of stuff is talked about. Please don't do it here. One of the most serious ways this can happen is threats to other posters or threats to public figures. We live in an age where there is no such thing as a "joking" threat.
- No personal attacks or saying mean things about posters. I know that sounds like Sunday School but I'm not sure how to say it any better. Basically don't be mean or rude. I'm especially sensitive to the group dynamics where the cool kids call out the not cool kids with the "nobody likes you here" or stuff like that. Message board cliques are sad. And maybe it's true and people don't like a guy. But I don't want that kind of thing here. And definitely no calling posters dumb or stupid or backwards or anything uncool.
- No racist or sexist comments. Again, this should go without saying but I'll say it. There are gray areas where sometimes people disagree. But most people know what will work. Again, if you think to yourself, "I wonder if someone will think this is racist / sexist?" it's probably not something you want to post. And remember, you don't get to decide. Other people decide.
- Please don't use aliases. We know some people have more than one name. If you are suspended, that means you, the person, are suspended. Not just your alias. And yes, there are ways to make it more difficult for us to detect. But the bottom line is if we think you're using an alias while on suspension, that alias name will be suspended too. Usually forever.
- Please don't use profanity. I know this one is controversial as it's become way more accepted in society. I'm old school and I'm sticking to this. Let's make it a personal challenge to you guys as I believe it takes more effort and intelligence to write and express yourself without profanity. And it's good for you to think a little bit more.
That includes abbreviations like GFY and others. And please do not use the pound signs like ### or assume the language filter will "do it's job". In other words, don't assume you can say whatever you want and the language filter will take care of everything. The language filter is an emergency thing. There is also a seriousness level attached to how it's used. "What the #### is going in here?" is not what we want but it's on one level. "Go #### yourself" is an instant suspension. We're going to operate under the assumption that you're smart and know what you're doing. As a general rule, avoid language that has to be bleeped out. And never use that kind of language in a personal attack.
- Please keep it PG / Family Rated / Safe For Work. Again, this one is blurry and can be difficult as the spectrum is broad. We don't want pornography links on the board. We don't want the "would you ...?" posts. But the "who's hottest?" polls are a scale. It may be beauty pageant pics then it goes to skimpy bathing suits to the almost nude pics. Clearly, Sports Illustrated and now ESPN are in that conversation. This is one area where we'll be more conservative than SI or ESPN. I'm not sure where the right answer is but I don't think we have to cater to the lowest denominator there. And one thing that makes us different than SI or ESPN is we have comments and discussion to go with it. It's one thing to have a picture. It's another when guys are making comments. I know it's fun to laugh at my "that's someone's daughter" but it's how I want us to operate. Ask yourself if you'd be comfortable with the comments if that was your sister or daughter in the picture.
- Please no Trolling or Triggers. Trolls always do the "who me?" defense when called out. But it's clear to everyone what you're doing when people are posting with the intent of trying to get a reaction. Clayton gave me this definition of Trolling that feels spot on: making a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them. If we feel you're trying to just rile up people and start a fight, you'll be suspended.
Same with Triggers. People know there are words or phrases or pics that set some people off. Please don't use those. For President Obama, it was making sure to refer to him as Barak Hussein Obama. President Trump has plenty of those too. Please let's try to be cool with those. You know what they are and you know what you're doing when you use them.
- Please don't make sweeping generalizations. Sweeping generalizations are always a bad idea. (see what I did there) My biggest problem with them is not just that they're lazy, but that they kill discussion. There is little upside in negative statements like the "Packer fans are ..." or "Ezekiel Elliott owners are ..." type stuff. Or claiming everyone feels a certain way. "All people from this state are ..." or "If you voted for X then you are ..." Generalizations are the the hallmark of lazy writing. Be specific. And don't make assumptions for an entire group.
- Please don't hold a grudge. Our boards have been going a long time and many posters have been here for much if not all of that time. That's plenty of opportunities to offend AND be offended. Sometimes, the best thing by far is to realize this is just a message board and not let something bother you. In the same way, don't intentionally antagonize other users, even if it's just small stuff. Inside joke avatars are a common way this is done. Be the bigger person and let stuff go.
- Please don't use the board for advertising. We put a great deal of effort into building our community. The forums aren't a "market" to pitch your product or website. No, "check out my rankings here" or "try this app out" stuff. And yes, I know some will try to get around it with a "Can you guys recommend a website for ...." and then people magically start recommending your website. It's easy to see what's happening there and please don't do it.
- Please don't waste the moderator's time. Moderating a board is zero fun. Please don't do things that you know are causing the moderators more work.
I'd much rather focus on what we DO want. And I realize this will feel like hand holding "can't we just get along" type stuff. But I'm entirely convinced it helps make a board successful.
What we DO want on the Forums:
- Focus more on what you think and why you think it. Take advantage of this amazing chance to communicate with people from all over the world. Talk more about what YOU think than criticizing what others think. Trust me, you'll be WAY more interesting to people.
- Realize this is a community. It's sappy and cliche but please don't forget these are real people posting. Many are extraordinary and / or have extraordinary things going on in their lives. So please give them the benefit of the doubt. The guy who is angry on line may very well have crushing things going on his real life. Cut him some slack. Maybe even try to understand.
- Be curious. You know what you think. When someone writes something you disagree with, you have a couple of choices. The easiest is to mock and say something snarky as you tell them how wrong they are. A much better alternative is to ask the person why they think what they think. That does several things. #1 - it puts the ball in their court and let's them elaborate on the thought. #2 - they very often refine their position after thinking about it further and explaining it and #3 - you'll likely see the tone soften as they realize you'd like to have a conversation and discussion instead of an argument.
- Listen - Understand - Talk. This one comes from Stephen Covey's rule of Seek First To Understand. Then To Be Understood. What he means there is make sure you are hearing what the other person is saying. Making sure you're clear on what they're saying is necessary before you make your point back to them. We've all been in conversations where the other person was more interested in talking than listening. Those conversations usually suck. You'll be surprised how many times this saves you the time of replying as what you thought they were saying wasn't what they were saying.
- Think about the things that encourage and discourage conversation. I see a message board forum like a game of Scrabble. The posters I want to participate with are like the Scrabble players who play a long word that opens the board. In other words, posters that encourage more conversation. The opposite is true as well. The Scrabble player that drops a three letter word is like the forum poster that shuts down conversation. Don't be that guy.
Ways to encourage? Easy. Ask things like "What do you think?" Ask for clarity. Be humble. If you pop into a thread and there are people discussing things who're more well versed on the subject, be cool and admit it. They'll be way more likely to help. Don't act like you know everything. Nobody wants to have a discussion with the guy who's arrogant. Be nice. Be kind. Basically it's like real life.
Ways to discourage? Do the opposite. Tell everyone what you think without regard for what they think. Disregard other people and their opinions. Act like you know everything when you don't. Throw shade at the other posters with snarky jabs. Again, like real life.
- Let it go. This is the flipside to "Don't Hold A Grudge". It's a message board. And for even the most talented writers this medium can be a terrible way to communicate. Show more grace than anger. If someone's offended you, err more on the side of letting it go instead of looking for a way to "get them back". Trust me.
- Give more than you take. For this I mean be a poster that contributes to the board. This is a Community. Give back more than you receive. If you don't think you have something to contribute, you're wrong. Find what that is for you. Another way of looking at it is be the kind of person people will miss if you weren't here.
- Realize this isn't a debate competition and you likely aren't going to change minds. There is no "winner" in threads. And if you're looking for a guy to post, "Wow, you totally changed my mind on this", you're likely to be disappointed. At best, you can hope to quietly influence a person's thinking on an issue. And that's fine.
- Get real life community. I can't stress how strongly I believe in this one. As fun as the forums are, they're at best a poor substitute for real life community. You may live in a place where like minded people are hard to find. I get it. Or you may have anxiety or things that make real life community challenging. I get that too. I'll say though that it's most healthy to let these forums be an "add on" to your real life community. Focus on real life first and then here on the forums. The good news is I think you'll find the exact same principles apply. What works in real life relationships are the same things that will work here.
- Last one. Know when to take a break. Social interaction online can be addicting. Know yourself and know when it's time to step away for a break. This relates to the real life community thing but please don't neglect the people closest to you in favor of a message board.
Last edited by a moderator:
IF its possible for FBG to be any greater..
