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RAISE Act (Immigration bill sponsored by Tom Cotton, R-AR)


RedmondLonghorn

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Oh God....Cotton :lmao:

This jackhole is a friend of a friend.  At said friend's wedding (where Cotton was a groomsman) I was a single shot of liquor away from punching this idiot in the throat and throwing him in the pool.  And it wasn't even over politics.  The guy is just disgusting at his core.

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3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Oh God....Cotton :lmao:

This jackhole is a friend of a friend.  At said friend's wedding (where Cotton was a groomsman) I was a single shot of liquor away from punching this idiot in the throat and throwing him in the pool.  And it wasn't even over politics.  The guy is just disgusting at his core.

Seems to be a pre-requisite for joining the Republican party these days.

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41 minutes ago, packersfan said:
45 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Oh God....Cotton :lmao:

This jackhole is a friend of a friend.  At said friend's wedding (where Cotton was a groomsman) I was a single shot of liquor away from punching this idiot in the throat and throwing him in the pool.  And it wasn't even over politics.  The guy is just disgusting at his core.

Seems to be a pre-requisite for joining the Republican party these days.

I like bagging on the parties as much as the next guy, but this idiot, he......he's something special.

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

My guess is welfare reform is tied to this eventually. If you are healthy and don't want to pick radishes and tomatoes, no benefits.   

Otherwise, they are going to have to make an exception for migrant workers.  

What if you have bone spurs?

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16 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

My guess is welfare reform is tied to this eventually. If you are healthy and don't want to pick radishes and tomatoes, no benefits.   

Otherwise, they are going to have to make an exception for migrant workers.  

Robotics will mostly eliminate the need for migrant agricultural workers.  This is coming very soon.

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On 8/4/2017 at 11:41 AM, RedmondLonghorn said:

Bill Text

This thing is a nativist piece of garbage, IMO.

If it is passed, it will hurt the US economy and economic growth potential.

Specifically which part(s) do you find objectionable?  There is a lot in there rolled up into one proposal.

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Just now, Sand said:

Specifically which part(s) do you find objectionable?  There is a lot in there rolled up into one proposal.

Potentially reducing the total amount of legal immigration to about half of recent numbers is bad policy, economically.

Capping the number of refugees at 50,000 is arbitrary. I don't think there is a pressing public policy reason to do so either. Clearly it is popular with some segments of the electorate, but it is also anti-humanitarian.

I see the argument for trying to attract highly skilled immigrants, but I have concerns with how that will be defined and administered. Moving away from the family connections criteria may also make it difficult to attract those highly skilled immigrants we want to move here and stay. For example, if doctors or software engineers are admitted, but it is difficult or impossible for them to bring over members of their extended family (e.g. parents, parents-in-law), they may not stay long or may not come at all.

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11 hours ago, RedmondLonghorn said:

Potentially reducing the total amount of legal immigration to about half of recent numbers is bad policy, economically.

Capping the number of refugees at 50,000 is arbitrary. I don't think there is a pressing public policy reason to do so either. Clearly it is popular with some segments of the electorate, but it is also anti-humanitarian.

I see the argument for trying to attract highly skilled immigrants, but I have concerns with how that will be defined and administered. Moving away from the family connections criteria may also make it difficult to attract those highly skilled immigrants we want to move here and stay. For example, if doctors or software engineers are admitted, but it is difficult or impossible for them to bring over members of their extended family (e.g. parents, parents-in-law), they may not stay long or may not come at all.

1. Two dichotomous lines of thought there.  I tend to think we have enough unskilled labor as it is and that automation will fill any gaps in the reduced numbers.  I doubt the administration thought that 500k would be the final number - a start for negotiations will peg on that number and work up from there.  Others don't see this as a threat and that unfettered immigration is a good thing (i.e. in the Musk vs. Zuckerberg argument Musk is absolutely correct, IMO.)

2.  I agree - this is where the US should continue its tradition of being (far and away) the most compassionate nation on earth.  I have no problems increasing this on a yearly basis and subtracting from other legal immigration routes to help here.  Right now we're letting in lots of unskilled labor, anyway.  Might as well be refugees.

3.  Australia has a good system.  I see no issues with not allowing chain migration - these are the folks that will be a burden on social systems more than the immigrants themselves.  Allowing nuclear families only is find with me.  Perhaps give extended family a point or two on the points system so they can earn their way in a bit sooner.  We aren't going to lack for applicants.

We are getting to crunch time with huge amounts of automation looming as a tidal wave in the distance.  We'd better prepare for the effects of that or we're going to have a huge idle hands problem in the near future.  

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13 hours ago, Sand said:

Robotics will mostly eliminate the need for migrant agricultural workers.  This is coming very soon.

If that indeed happens, then one of our biggest concerns may be to prevent Mexico from becoming a radical socialist anti-American state on our border- another Venezuela right next to us. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

If that indeed happens, then one of our biggest concerns may be to prevent Mexico from becoming a radical socialist anti-American state on our border- another Venezuela right next to us. 

On the good side Venezuela isn't a threat to anyone right now except themselves.  (Despite what the fine authors at Slate would have you believe.)  On the bad side the oil output from Mexico has plunged lately, mostly due to poor management.  I forget what percent of GDP oil exports are for Mexico - it isn't the 97% that it is for Venezuela, luckily.

California is already having issues with lack of labor in the fields - pushing this automation trend.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Sand said:

On the good side Venezuela isn't a threat to anyone right now except themselves.  (Despite what the fine authors at Slate would have you believe.)  On the bad side the oil output from Mexico has plunged lately, mostly due to poor management.  I forget what percent of GDP oil exports are for Mexico - it isn't the 97% that it is for Venezuela, luckily.

California is already having issues with lack of labor in the fields - pushing this automation trend.  

 

Yeah but California can survive the economic changes. Mexico has had a corrupt system in place forever and we've done nothing to try to change that despite knowing that eventually it was going to cost us. The only reason their high unemployment hasn't caused a revolution is because the USA provided an outlet for their excess workers to come here. If that outlet is closed then major trouble for Mexico...and for us. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

Yeah but California can survive the economic changes. Mexico has had a corrupt system in place forever and we've done nothing to try to change that despite knowing that eventually it was going to cost us. The only reason their high unemployment hasn't caused a revolution is because the USA provided an outlet for their excess workers to come here. If that outlet is closed then major trouble for Mexico...and for us. 

True, but for the bolded hopefully we've learned our lesson on meddling too much in other countries.  Our outcomes here haven't been good.

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2 hours ago, Sand said:

1. Two dichotomous lines of thought there.  I tend to think we have enough unskilled labor as it is and that automation will fill any gaps in the reduced numbers.  I doubt the administration thought that 500k would be the final number - a start for negotiations will peg on that number and work up from there.  Others don't see this as a threat and that unfettered immigration is a good thing (i.e. in the Musk vs. Zuckerberg argument Musk is absolutely correct, IMO.)

2.  I agree - this is where the US should continue its tradition of being (far and away) the most compassionate nation on earth.  I have no problems increasing this on a yearly basis and subtracting from other legal immigration routes to help here.  Right now we're letting in lots of unskilled labor, anyway.  Might as well be refugees.

3.  Australia has a good system.  I see no issues with not allowing chain migration - these are the folks that will be a burden on social systems more than the immigrants themselves.  Allowing nuclear families only is find with me.  Perhaps give extended family a point or two on the points system so they can earn their way in a bit sooner.  We aren't going to lack for applicants.

We are getting to crunch time with huge amounts of automation looming as a tidal wave in the distance.  We'd better prepare for the effects of that or we're going to have a huge idle hands problem in the near future.  

Immigrants are twice as likely to start new businesses as the native born population. Letting less immigrants (of any skill level) in probably exacerbates the "idle hands problem".

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1 hour ago, RedmondLonghorn said:

Immigrants are twice as likely to start new businesses as the native born population. Letting less immigrants (of any skill level) in probably exacerbates the "idle hands problem".

I mean they still can according to Cotton if they are 22-35 years old, are in the 80th percentile for English speakers, and can plop down 1.8 million to run a business.  

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And this is why nothing gets done on subjects like this.  According to this article the proposal is very similar to that proposed in a Clinton era study (led by a liberal), but now these ideas aren't "about making America great again; it’s about making America white again".  None of the components of this are anywhere close to that, but that's the rhetoric that will be heard.

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26 minutes ago, Sand said:

And this is why nothing gets done on subjects like this.  According to this article the proposal is very similar to that proposed in a Clinton era study (led by a liberal), but now these ideas aren't "about making America great again; it’s about making America white again".  None of the components of this are anywhere close to that, but that's the rhetoric that will be heard.

I would probably have been against that then, too.

The other thing worth noting is that potential GDP growth has shrunk massively since the Clinton Era, due to a combination of the demographics of the current population (inevitable) and the collapse in overall worker productivity growth (as of yet unexplained) over the past decade or so.

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1 hour ago, RedmondLonghorn said:

the collapse in overall worker productivity growth (as of yet unexplained) over the past decade or so.

I'd pin it on the fact that the easy automation based increases in productivity have been squeezed out.  Just my WAG.

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On 8/7/2017 at 1:05 PM, Sand said:

True, but for the bolded hopefully we've learned our lesson on meddling too much in other countries.  Our outcomes here haven't been good.

I would argue we have caused a lot of Mexico's problems.  The drug cartels have taken over that country and our country is the consumer of their product.  

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3 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

I would argue we have caused a lot of Mexico's problems.  The drug cartels have taken over that country and our country is the consumer of their product.  

They used to make half their money in marijuana.  That's dropped now that it's being legalized.  Now they make about half with human smuggling to the US.  Hopefully we'll have the political will to curtail that, though it seems to be a hard road.

 

20 hours ago, RedmondLonghorn said:

collapse in overall worker productivity growth (as of yet unexplained) over the past decade or so.

Interesting article pins a lot of this on old workers.  

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  • 3 weeks later...

Dan Rather today:

Quote

 

Jorge Perez - confirmed dead.
Yahir Vizueth - confirmed dead. 
Benjamin Vizueth - missing. 
Gustavo Rodriguez-Hernandez - missing.

Please pause to read the names above. The stories of heroism and tragedy in the wake of Hurricane Harvey have hit me hard and this one struck me with a particular poignancy.

The four men listed above took it upon themselves to rescue families in distress. After two missions, they headed out again and their boat drifted into a downed power line, electrocuting them and sending them into the swirling currents. Two of them were brothers, a third brother survived as did two journalists on board documenting these acts of quiet heroism.

These men were fathers and husbands. Their loss leaves holes in many lives. In our current fractured climate, there are some who would look at their ethnicity, their last names, the fact that they spoke Spanish and say they are not one of us, not part of our nation.

But in a time of need no one asked for their papers.

 

 

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