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Tarik Cohen - RB - CHI


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I think so as well.  The biggest hindrance I feel that might limit him is Anthony Miller and Burton.  Cohen would likely take dump offs and check downs (I don't believe he has the deep speed to be a deep threat) and that will be what they paid Burton to do, and what they drafted Miller to do as a compliment to Robinson. 

There are a lot of mouths to feed there so I'm glad Nagy is talking him up, I'm just tempering my expectations back to reality because he's likely a small piece of the receiving pie when it's all said and done. 

His best chance is to by super efficient with his touches.  Similar to Chris Thompson last year.  Thompson saw about 6.5 touches per game but turned them into gold when he got them.  If Cohen can do that, then he'll reach those RB2 numbers.  Thompson was RB26 last year on those just for reference.  Not sure if Cohen will get that many touches with all the new Targets for Mr. Biscuit but if he becomes a safety blanket or something then I could see it happening.  

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Does anyone here expect Cohen to outscore Howard? Seems Howard’s value is really low in some people’s minds because “Nagy likes a pass catching back” and Howard has struggled a bit there. There was a trade rumor, which I personally don’t put a lot of stock in. Just seems if Cohen hits rb2 numbers in a part time role (at 181 I cant imagine him getting a large workload) that Howard should be holding his value. I don’t own Howard anywhere but it seems like he’s a bargain right now. Cohen doing his thing won’t really affect that. 

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1 hour ago, Snorkelson said:

Does anyone here expect Cohen to outscore Howard? Seems Howard’s value is really low in some people’s minds because “Nagy likes a pass catching back” and Howard has struggled a bit there. There was a trade rumor, which I personally don’t put a lot of stock in. Just seems if Cohen hits rb2 numbers in a part time role (at 181 I cant imagine him getting a large workload) that Howard should be holding his value. I don’t own Howard anywhere but it seems like he’s a bargain right now. Cohen doing his thing won’t really affect that. 

I would be surprised if Cohen outscored Howard in any format. Anything's possible and I guess if Cohen is used like Sproles was in NO he could nab 80 balls or so, but I would think Howard is a much surer thing. He's a very good RB. 

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18 minutes ago, foxco said:

I would be surprised if Cohen outscored Howard in any format. Anything's possible and I guess if Cohen is used like Sproles was in NO he could nab 80 balls or so, but I would think Howard is a much surer thing. He's a very good RB. 

I think Howard is a safe bet to be a RB2 but lacks the upside to be more unless injuries occur (which they often do). Cohen is more boom/bust, but at the end of the year the safe money would be on Howard to be more productive. 

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1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

I think Howard is a safe bet to be a RB2 but lacks the upside to be more unless injuries occur (which they often do). Cohen is more boom/bust, but at the end of the year the safe money would be on Howard to be more productive. 

I don’t know, the dynasty trade thread seems to think Howard is done and destined to be in a committee forever, get out while you can. Howard or guice, both in a committee, one has multiple 1200 yd seasons, but I bet guice get 85% of that vote. 

Before we say “we don’t know if guice is in a committee” let’s remember that Thompson was a top 5 back early last year as the 3rd down back. Anyway, it’s the Cohen thread, so I’ll let it go there. Just baffles me that people love Cohen so much but just think Howard is jag. 

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11 hours ago, Zyphros said:

  Similar to Chris Thompson last year.  Thompson saw about 6.5 touches per game but turned them into gold when he got them.

Thompson averaged 6.5 carries but 10.3 touches per game. Touches are not that key to me, receptions are what is key. On 6.4 runs per game he got you 4.1 points, on 3.9 receptions he got you 11.4 per game. Sproles is a guy who averaged 15 a game during his 3 year Saints run on less than 4 carries a game, that's RB1 status most seasons. CMC was a low end RB1 last year on just 7.3 carries a game but he only got you 3.46 points a game on the ground, the other 10.93 on the passing game.

I don't think Cohen will catch 80 balls but I do think he can catch 60. One major plus he's going to have going for him to start the season is that when they line up Robinson, Miller, Burton and Cohen the only guy Trubisky has a history of throwing to is Cohen, that comfort level might really help.

When we talk about RB2 I kind of view that in terms of a 12-13 PPG type back. Technically if you look at last year and took per game average which includes players who only played one game he'd need to just be around 11.5 PPG to be a RB2. I think yes he hits that, needs to improve his production about 3 fantasy points a game to do that and I think he does that but  also think he hits that 12-13PPG mark so yes I think he's a RB2. A lot of Reek Hill comps and Cohen is fast but Hill is fastest player in the game and taller but Cohen is shiftier so not the same mold but I do think they are similar in the things you can do with them.  Hill has probably been the most efficient per touch player in the NFL since he joined the league but if you look at Hills rookie season usage when he was a bit of a hybrid RB/WR he put up RB2 numbers on 5.3 touches a game, with 1.5 of those coming as a runner. Cohen will get a lot more work as a runner than Hill saw that year, and I think he'll surpass  or be similar to 61 catches that Hill got. He won't be as efficient as Hill, no one is, but again I think the extra work he gets as runner will translate to similar production.

Will he outscore Howard? I got them close to even, very slight edge to Howard though I think Cohen will be more consistent as pass catching RB's are more consistent. But as Howard costs you a third and Cohen a 6th or 7tht the only one I'll be drafting is Cohen.

 

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I'm tempering my expectations on him. There aren't very many similar players who have been fantasy relevant.

You got Darren Sproles that one year with the Saints. But I don't see a Drew Brees on the Chicago Bears.

Edited by Stuart Ullman
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2 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

I don’t know, the dynasty trade thread seems to think Howard is done and destined to be in a committee forever, get out while you can. Howard or guice, both in a committee, one has multiple 1200 yd seasons, but I bet guice get 85% of that vote. 

Before we say “we don’t know if guice is in a committee” let’s remember that Thompson was a top 5 back early last year as the 3rd down back. Anyway, it’s the Cohen thread, so I’ll let it go there. Just baffles me that people love Cohen so much but just think Howard is jag. 

Guide is the sexy new toy.

40 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

I'm tempering my expectations on him. There aren't very many similar players who have been fantasy relevant.

You got Darren Sproles that one year with the Saints. But I don't see a Drew Brees on the Chicago Bears.

Depends what you mean by similar. There haven't been many 5'6" dudes in the league, but I think he'll be similar to last year's McCaffery or sproles for most of his career. We shouldn't expect Kamara type production. 

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5 hours ago, menobrown said:

Thompson averaged 6.5 carries but 10.3 touches per game. Touches are not that key to me, receptions are what is key. On 6.4 runs per game he got you 4.1 points, on 3.9 receptions he got you 11.4 per game.

Thanks for that correction.  I think I forgot to add in receptions when doing my math.  Hadn't had my coffee yet at 6am or whatever it was.  

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On 7/9/2018 at 0:03 AM, Zyphros said:

I think so as well.  The biggest hindrance I feel that might limit him is Anthony Miller and Burton.  Cohen would likely take dump offs and check downs (I don't believe he has the deep speed to be a deep threat) and that will be what they paid Burton to do, and what they drafted Miller to do as a compliment to Robinson. 

There are a lot of mouths to feed there so I'm glad Nagy is talking him up, I'm just tempering my expectations back to reality because he's likely a small piece of the receiving pie when it's all said and done. 

His best chance is to by super efficient with his touches.  Similar to Chris Thompson last year.  Thompson saw about 6.5 touches per game but turned them into gold when he got them.  If Cohen can do that, then he'll reach those RB2 numbers.  Thompson was RB26 last year on those just for reference.  Not sure if Cohen will get that many touches with all the new Targets for Mr. Biscuit but if he becomes a safety blanket or something then I could see it happening.  

Chris Thompson was RB11 in PPG and .5 PPG.  He was, however, extremely efficient on his touches and that's likely not repeatable.  4.6 YPCarry and especially 13.1 YPCatch are high benchmarks to shoot for and 4 receiving TD's in 10 games seems a little outlier-ish.  However, even projecting a much more modest 8.5 YPCatch and 2 TD's still leaves him at 13.0 PPG for RB19.  That's a great ROI on his ADP and those are very reasonable for Cohen.  100/420/3 and 65/550/3 would be 12.4 PPG in PPR and would have been RB20 last year.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Speaking of sights to see I just saw his interview with Stacey Dales on NFLN.

He had 7 games last year he got 20 or more snaps, averaging 30 snaps a game those week. He had double digits PPR points in 6 of the 7 games and with scored what amounted to what would have been good RB20 in PPR last year, a little over 12 points a game.  Hard to be that consistent on double digit scoring while averaging just over 12 a game and big part of that was just 2 TD's in those 7 games. I view this as his floor.

 

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5 observations from Bears practice Thursday: Mitch Trubisky's accuracy, live tackling, Anthony Miller's hands and more

An interesting little Cohen tidbit in here:

Quote

Trubisky continues to chase consistency. A pair of deep throws to running back/wide receiver Tarik Cohen exemplified this. Early in 11-on-11, he hit Cohen in stride down the right sideline, with linebacker Nick Kwiatkoski close in coverage. Later, though, his incomplete deep post to Cohen was overthrown, and Cohen was covered, anyway, by cornerback Bryce Callahan.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
27 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

I read somewhere that he's been lining up in different spots. RB and WR.

“All over the field” is what I read. And his coaches love him. They see him as the ultimate gadget player that they can use anywhere. 

He’s a playmaker & they’re going to try to get him the ball in all kinda of creative ways. 

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2 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

He’s a playmaker & they’re going to try to get him the ball in all kinda of creative ways. 

Well let’s see, they gonna pass him the ball, hand the ball off to him, what else? Maybe a fumbleruski? Direct snap? Maybe turn and just jam the ball into his face mask so he can use both hands? 

:popcorn:

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6 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Well let’s see, they gonna pass him the ball, hand the ball off to him, what else? Maybe a fumbleruski? Direct snap? Maybe turn and just jam the ball into his face mask so he can use both hands? 

:popcorn:

They have this one play where they shove a ball up his butt in the locker room, and at just the right time he- oh, sorry I’m being told that’s a secret. We’ll have to wait until the season to seen how that all works. :rolleyes: 

i meant where they line him up. Slot, split wide, 2 backs in the backfield, end arounds, etc.

He’a an exciting player. Even without a ball up his bum. 

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21 minutes ago, heckmanm said:

Would :wub: to see him officially listed as a WR for FF purposes

Doubt that would happen. 

Fantasy baseball does that bit right. Guy  starts 4-5 games at 2B, he gets 2B eligibility. 

If a running back gets 80 receptions he’s still only qualified as a RB. 

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Doubt that would happen. 

Fantasy baseball does that bit right. Guy  starts 4-5 games at 2B, he gets 2B eligibility. 

If a running back gets 80 receptions he’s still only qualified as a RB. 

Yeah I know, just wishful thinking.  I have him in a flex league and WR eligibility would let me start him with 3 other RBs, which would be sweet.

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1 hour ago, LittlePhatty said:

Anyone know for sure if he'll do punt/kick returns this year? Depth chart says "yes", but I don't know if that is current or left over from last year.

No idea - if he does I’m loving him even more for my IDP league. He’s pretty eclectic. On the other hand, more risk in that role. 

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1 hour ago, Casting Couch said:

 

I'm bored of holding onto this guy. I just don't ever see him as fantasy relevant enough to become a weekly or even a spot starter.

I'd bet someone would trade for him 

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Lot of people getting down on Tarik, and get why that would bring guys who want him to overtake Howard as the lead dog down, but why would his role/usage and touches change from last year? Aren't we talking about similar floor and similar upside if this offense starts to click and become more dynamic with Trubisky's development?

I am not expecting Cohen become anything other than a COP/passing down back, but he was Top 30 back in PPR last year, and not seeing why he wouldn't retain that value this year as an RB2/3/flex, as opposed to what I'm hearing here (not fantasy relevant, etc.).

Top 30 RB in PPR seems pretty much a gimme here with him again this year, no?

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18 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Lot of people getting down on Tarik, and get why that would bring guys who want him to overtake Howard as the lead dog down, 

He's 5'6" and 180 soaking wet.

Any who thinks he's taking over the lead role are out of their collective skulls. He's a gadget guy. Nothing more, nothing less.

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1 minute ago, Casting Couch said:

He's 5'6" and 180 soaking wet.

Any who thinks he's taking over the lead role are out of their collective skulls. He's a gadget guy. Nothing more, nothing less.

No one is saying he’s going to be a traditional 3 down lead back or that he’s going to “take over” Howard’s role. There’s room for both.

Most of his value will be in the passing game but I think he’s actually a good RB in terms of running between the tackles as well. He’s very tough for his size and can definitely take some hits.

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1 minute ago, barackdhouse said:

Seems like it's worth holding him for this season at least. See what he does with Nagy after he said he will use him like Tyreek Hill. 

Agreed. He’s not Tyreek but he’s not too far off if you squint a bit. Cohen is fast but he doesn’t have Hill’s agility and short area quickness - you can see it when Cohen tries to take runs outside, he struggles a bit. I think Nagy will maximise his strengths though.

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19 minutes ago, RushHour said:

Agreed. He’s not Tyreek but he’s not too far off if you squint a bit. Cohen is fast but he doesn’t have Hill’s agility and short area quickness - you can see it when Cohen tries to take runs outside, he struggles a bit. I think Nagy will maximise his strengths though.

I'm not sure I could disagree more this assessment. Cohen's speed isn't quite up there with Hill, but his agility is top notch. Most of his good plays his rookie year were on runs to the outside.

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17 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

I'm not sure I could disagree more this assessment. Cohen's speed isn't quite up there with Hill, but his agility is top notch. Most of his good plays his rookie year were on runs to the outside.

He had big plays on runs to the outside but they were when there was space to run into and the blocking got him free (which is fine). I was more talking about when he has to create on his own around the line of scrimmage - my memory was that he got wrapped up fairly easily at times when trying to make a move outside. I could be wrong. 

They are both straight line fast but Hill is obviously faster (he might be the best in the NFL). I thought there was a big difference in their agility numbers (Cohen being much slower than you’d expect for a player of his size) and that to me showed on the field too. Again, my memory could be faulty. 

One thing I do like about Cohen is that is is built thick so can take some punishment. He’s not a Pumphrey type guy even though he’s small.

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7 minutes ago, RushHour said:

He had big plays on runs to the outside but they were when there was space to run into and the blocking got him free (which is fine). I was more talking about when he has to create on his own around the line of scrimmage - my memory was that he got wrapped up fairly easily at times when trying to make a move outside. I could be wrong. 

They are both straight line fast but Hill is obviously faster (he might be the best in the NFL). I thought there was a big difference in their agility numbers (Cohen being much slower than you’d expect for a player of his size) and that to me showed on the field too. Again, my memory could be faulty. 

One thing I do like about Cohen is that is is built thick so can take some punishment. He’s not a Pumphrey type guy even though he’s small.

Fair enough. I did a little bit of digging for agility drill numbers, but I haven't found anything that I give a lot of credence to. He didn't run them at the combine and I haven't seen any articles with numbers from his pro day, though one of those draft aggregator sites lists a 3 cone time of 7.22, which isn't very great. 

The things that stick in my memory re: agility are plays like this and this or this

But I agree that the value in his running style is actually his strength for his size. He's got great balance and can stay up through some tackles that you'd expect to take him down. 

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4 hours ago, RushHour said:

Agreed. He’s not Tyreek but he’s not too far off if you squint a bit. Cohen is fast but he doesn’t have Hill’s agility and short area quickness - you can see it when Cohen tries to take runs outside, he struggles a bit. I think Nagy will maximise his strengths though.

....which is becoming legendary.  I don't know, I agree he isn't Hill, but Cohen seemed pretty darn agile and quick to me last year. John Fox sucks. Bears fan here. I really couldn't stand watching them play from the moment he was hired. I see no reason not to hold. And I don't own him anywhere. Dang it. I had him in one league midseason last year and traded him as part of something bigger. I forget the particulars.

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I think the upside here is that the old guard most certainly didn't know how to maximize his potential his the passing game. By mid-season it seemed like opposing teams had caught to how CHI planned on utilizing him and were able to shut him down easily. I mean, something is wrong when his receiving DYAR is in a range that is home to Collins, Howard, Crowell and Hyde

I'm still having trouble trying to figure out how the pie will be split between Robinson, Miller, Burton, Shaheen, Cohen and Howard. I suppose it's essentially unknowable.

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19 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

I think the upside here is that the old guard most certainly didn't know how to maximize his potential his the passing game. By mid-season it seemed like opposing teams had caught to how CHI planned on utilizing him and were able to shut him down easily. I mean, something is wrong when his receiving DYAR is in a range that is home to Collins, Howard, Crowell and Hyde

I'm still having trouble trying to figure out how the pie will be split between Robinson, Miller, Burton, Shaheen, Cohen and Howard. I suppose it's essentially unknowable.

This is just me thinking out loud, but how about this for targets?

ARob 105

Miller 85

Gabriel 65

Burton 85

Shaheen 35

Cohen 75

Howard 40

Other WRs 50

Other TEs 20

Other backs 20

Total 580 - that's probably high for the Bears. But that would be good for 9th most attempts last season. Which doesn't seem crazy. 

Like I said, just thinking out loud with this. KC had ~545 attempts each of the last two seasons. But the proportions of targets above seem reasonable to me. In terms of pecking order.

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On 8/17/2018 at 6:55 PM, RushHour said:

Agreed. He’s not Tyreek but he’s not too far off if you squint a bit. Cohen is fast but he doesn’t have Hill’s agility and short area quickness - you can see it when Cohen tries to take runs outside, he struggles a bit. I think Nagy will maximise his strengths though.

think i'm taking Tarik over Tyreek in flashy fun on the turf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1mzsk8NM_U

 

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