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Antifa: Left Wing Militants on the Rise


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I'm starting an alt-moderate radical militant group.   We fight the extreme left and extreme right by sitting on our butts, drinking beer, watching football and eating pizza.   

All I'm all for criticizing Antifa, but it seems odd to do so shortly after a violent outburst by white nationalists having nothing to do with Antifa.

It doesn't make any difference whether this guy writes straight news or opinion columns, where his work is published, whether he was filming anybody or not, or whether he was wearing a fedora with an

7 minutes ago, rockaction said:

This guy wanted you to know he meant it. 

To be expected at punk shows or at least used to. When I was I going in the late 90s/early aughts there were always a lot of people at shows with anti-swastikas, no hate, f——— fascists and the like buttons, patches, etc. I imagine that came out in punk as a defense mechanism because of the general aesthetic of punk could look rather scary and neo NAZI. 

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

To be expected at punk shows or at least used to. When I was I going in the late 90s/early aughts there were always a lot of people at shows with anti-swastikas, no hate, f——— fascists and the like buttons, patches, etc. I imagine that came out in punk as a defense mechanism because of the general aesthetic of punk could look rather scary and neo NAZI. 

Indeed. Nailed it, in not in the sarcastic meme way. 

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53 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

To be expected at punk shows or at least used to. When I was I going in the late 90s/early aughts there were always a lot of people at shows with anti-swastikas, no hate, f——— fascists and the like buttons, patches, etc. I imagine that came out in punk as a defense mechanism because of the general aesthetic of punk could look rather scary and neo NAZI. 

Yup. I remember a couple shows in that time period that had some skinhead types in the audience and things used to get a bit dicey in the pit. Heard about some trouble on occasion but never was a part of it.

I do remember one show (wish I remembered who was playing) where things got really rough on the floor due to some of those guys, and I may have "accidentally" stomped one of the skinheads hands while he was on the floor trying to get up after deservedly getting knocked down. Skinheads have a way of ruining a perfectly polite mosh.

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15 hours ago, Herb said:

Yup. I remember a couple shows in that time period that had some skinhead types in the audience and things used to get a bit dicey in the pit. Heard about some trouble on occasion but never was a part of it.

I do remember one show (wish I remembered who was playing) where things got really rough on the floor due to some of those guys, and I may have "accidentally" stomped one of the skinheads hands while he was on the floor trying to get up after deservedly getting knocked down. Skinheads have a way of ruining a perfectly polite mosh.

FSU Crew out of Boston became a violent gang after forming specifically to fight violent skinheads at shows. The violence never stopped, FSU became what they hated, and they became the aggressors. I always hated that element of punk and stayed away from bands that drew Nazis for one reason or the other. Always meant tons of fights, violence, stopped shows, etc.

FSU sounds like what Fox News thinks happened to Antifa, simply being anti-fascist is what the board's progressives like Henry think is at the core of Antifa, and the truth probably lies between the twain.

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16 hours ago, Herb said:

. Skinheads have a way of ruining a perfectly polite mosh.

:goodposting: While not a prevalent in the metal pits, certain bands, like Slayer, had a knack of drawing the skinheads out in force. 

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12 hours ago, GROOT said:

There are good skinheads...and bad ones. Anyone like Minor Threat?

Sure. In tenth grade, I loved them. I've slowed down and their music stayed fast, though, so as I age I don't like it as much as I once did.

Edited by rockaction
I know Minor Threat broke up in like '81. I was saying that the music is still really fast and aggressive and I'm too old
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5 minutes ago, msommer said:

I'm sure there are very fine people on both sides of skinheadism

Sharp skins are a working class movement and the original skins. Skin culture is complicated and wasn't racist in Britain circa '69-'73. They were into Jamaican ska and other things of the sort. It's not a right-wing history, necessarily.

Skinhead Moonstomp (1969)

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12 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Sharp skins are a working class movement and the original skins. Skin culture is complicated and wasn't racist in Britain circa '69-'73. They were into Jamaican ska and other things of the sort. It's not a right-wing history, necessarily.

Skinhead Moonstomp (1969)

Pity that it changed, then

ETA: My first experience with skinheads was in '80-'81, and they were racist as #### (already?) then

Edited by msommer
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2 minutes ago, msommer said:

Pity that it changed, then

ETA: My first experience with skinheads was in '80-'81, and they were racist as #### (already?) then

Yeah, the original skins died out and somehow a vacuum was formed in skinhead culture that got turned into Naziism. I'm a dilettante when it comes to that subculture (and know nothing about Neo-Nazi skinheads) though, so I'm not sure where the vacuum existed or why it did.

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46 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, the original skins died out and somehow a vacuum was formed in skinhead culture that got turned into Naziism. I'm a dilettante when it comes to that subculture (and know nothing about Neo-Nazi skinheads) though, so I'm not sure where the vacuum existed or why it did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBVQsHVP3Z0

early skinheads in football

Edited by GROOT
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14 hours ago, GROOT said:

There are good skinheads...and bad ones. Anyone like Minor Threat?

I've been yelled at and had people try to pick fights with me on a handful of occasions. I've been told I'm rather intimidating. I always have to explain that the real person they should be angry at is my dad for passing on male pattern baldness.  I ain't going through life since my mid 20's looking like a Franciscan monk, you. 

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Just now, Da Guru said:

Who would take in a rumble    Skinheads or Atifa?

I'd rather people be able to protest peacefully, but Antifa wants to shut down free speech with violence.  What reasonable person could support that?

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

I'd rather people be able to protest peacefully, but Antifa wants to shut down free speech with violence.  What reasonable person could support that?

I agree..but if they go toe to toe and do battle who would you bet to come out on top?

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24 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

I agree..but if they go toe to toe and do battle who would you bet to come out on top?

I don't know, I wouldn't bet on it.

We both know they go after more than skinheads.  The go after journalist like Andy Ngo, and cause violence and property damage at Conservative speaking events.  Anyone who differs from their ideology.  Antifa is the embodiment of fascism. 

Edited by JohnnyU
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20 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I don't know, I wouldn't bet on it.

We both know they go after more than skinheads.  The go after journalist like Andy Ngo, and cause violence and property damage at Conservative speaking events.  Anyone who differs from their ideology.  Antifa is the mere embodiment of fascism. 

Probably want to skip the embodiment of fascism and just call them lawless thugs. 

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36 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I'd rather people be able to protest peacefully, but Antifa wants to shut down free speech with violence.  What reasonable person could support that?

Like say taking a knee during the national anthem? 

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Why?  That's what it is.  I agree they are thugs also.

Fascism is a platform or political philosophy advocating for a form of government or governance that exalts the nation-state to the highest degree possible. It is dictatorial, authoritarian, and requires state control of the economy and the regulation and ownership of each citizen. Antifa comes from radically different underpinnings than fascism. They espouse a leftist/communist/socialist version that is internationalist and universal in nature. Fasicsts are national and generally racialists. Both socialism and fascism have state-controlled economies, but the differences really end there. This is not say that Antifa is not a corporeal example of paradox or a manifest example of politically-charged violence, but whatever they are, an anti-fascist group generally will take great pains to not be what they profess to hate, and they, by most accounts, don't.

Violent troublemakers? Yes. A loose connection of anarchists, commies, and left-wing cranks? Also yes. But not in origin or deed fascist.

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3 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Like say taking a knee during the national anthem? 

I don't agree with it, but they have that right and should always have the right of expression as long as they aren't hurting anyone.

Edited by JohnnyU
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13 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

All I know is that if a bunch of racist, fascist, Neo-Nazis and a bunch of troublemaking, left wing, pseudo-anarchists meet up in the streets for a brawl...I know which side I’m rooting for every time.

But they're not just punching Nazis. They're punching intellectuals and shutting down public speeches, etc.

They're kind of like commie thugs.

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13 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

All I know is that if a bunch of racist, fascist, Neo-Nazis and a bunch of troublemaking, left wing, pseudo-anarchists meet up in the streets for a brawl...I know which side I’m rooting for every time.

A lot of these antifa people are middle class narcissist living in their mom's basement.

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15 minutes ago, Encumbrance said:

But they're not just punching Nazis. They're punching intellectuals and shutting down public speeches, etc.

They're kind of like commie thugs.

And the Nazis are just exercising their 1st Amendment rights?

https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/08/07/far-right-brawler-ian-kramer-arrested-for-felony-assault-and-other-crimes-for-may-day-attack-at-cider-riot/

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6 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

No, the Nazis aren't innocent by any means, and their violence seems baked right into their ideology. When one is a racialist and includes only one race in an organization, club, or gang, it follows that they kick out or exclude other races inherently. When this happens in governance, it means exile or death or segregation, really. The point is not lost on me. Plus, the racial animus driving the club, org., or gang might boil over into actively seeking out violence.

Nazis are bad.

Antifa is rotten.

Your declaration before was a hypothetical to be sure -- it's not like you really have to choose between a communist, anarchist, or socialist against a fascist. You're not in 1930s Europe. Yet.

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4 minutes ago, Encumbrance said:

No, the Nazis aren't innocent by any means, and their violence seems baked right into their ideology. When one is a racialist and includes only one race in an organization, club, or gang, it follows that they kick out or exclude other races inherently. When this happens in governance, it means exile or death or segregation, really. The point is not lost on me. Plus, the racial animus driving the club, org., or gang might boil over into actively seeking out violence.

Nazis are bad.

Antifa is rotten.

Your declaration before was a hypothetical to be sure -- it's not like you really have to choose between a communist, anarchist, or socialist against a fascist. You're not in 1930s Europe. Yet.

Well, OK.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

I dont agree with it, but they have that right and should always have the tight if expression as long as they aren't hurting anyone.

That’s good to hear because three years later a large segment of the population is still losing their #### about it. 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

A lot of these antifa people are middle class narcissist living in their mom's basement.

Or upper class living in daddy’s mansion like Senator Tim Kaine’s kid-

Quote

Some of the counter-demonstrators, equipped with face and head coverings and goggles, broke away and attempted to enter the rally from the second floor staircase by pushing and shoving," a news release from Ramsey County Attorney John Choi said. "During the disturbance, they employed smoke bombs, mace and fireworks, thereby creating a chaotic and dangerous situation."

A probable cause document says Kaine, who lives in Minneapolis, ran from a police officer, who caught him and knocked him down. It took several officers to detain Kaine after he scuffled with officers, the document says.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/05/26/politics/tim-kaine-son-charged/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

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2 hours ago, Encumbrance said:

No, the Nazis aren't innocent by any means, and their violence seems baked right into their ideology. When one is a racialist and includes only one race in an organization, club, or gang, it follows that they kick out or exclude other races inherently. When this happens in governance, it means exile or death or segregation, really. The point is not lost on me. Plus, the racial animus driving the club, org., or gang might boil over into actively seeking out violence.

Nazis are bad.

Antifa is rotten.

Your declaration before was a hypothetical to be sure -- it's not like you really have to choose between a communist, anarchist, or socialist against a fascist. You're not in 1930s Europe. Yet.

Genocide is "bad"?  :mellow:

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3 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Genocide is "bad"?  :mellow:

I think quibbling with my use of the word "bad" to describe Nazis is counterproductive to whatever thesis you're looking to covey.

It's abhorrent? It's tragic? It's disgusting?

All fit.

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3 minutes ago, Encumbrance said:

I think quibbling with my use of the word "bad" to describe Nazis is counterproductive to whatever thesis you're looking to covey.

It's abhorrent? It's tragic? It's disgusting?

All fit.

Evil? Tied for first as the absolute worst humanity has to offer? 

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4 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Why?  That's what it is.  I agree they are thugs also.

Yes, many act like thugs. Just like the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, and all the other right-wing nut job groups who attend. Extremism on both sides is disgusting. You name one as a terrorist organization, name them all the same way. 

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6 minutes ago, skycriesmary said:

Yes, many act like thugs. Just like the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, and all the other right-wing nut job groups who attend. Extremism on both sides is disgusting. You name one as a terrorist organization, name them all the same way. 

Perhaps it's time for the National Guard to attend some of these protests.  I don't think the Portland police are up to the task.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

Perhaps it's time for the National Guard to attend some of these protests.  I don't think the Portland police are up to the task.

You can put the word "police" in quotes if you're talking about Portland, from what I hear and read. They can't quite seem to come up with a plan to keep order and are lucky their citizens are beatniks at heart, or there might be a real problem. My friend lives there. Super liberal. Complains about how bad it is, actually.

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Just now, OrtonToOlsen said:

Group 1: “We want to rid America of mud-people and Jews and feminists and liberals and gays. They’re subhuman and destroying White America.”

Group 2: “We want to beat the #### out of Group 1.”

Certain posters:  “Group 2 really chaps my hide.”

There has never been a shortage of condemnation in America. It's not like there's a finite supply.

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11 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Group 1: “We want to rid America of mud-people and Jews and feminists and liberals and gays. They’re subhuman and destroying White America.”

Group 2: “We want to beat the #### out of Group 1.”

Certain posters:  “Group 2 really chaps my hide.”

Yeah, I'm staying clear of any real discussion, as in reality, there is none. That side won't be swayed, and I'd rather not talk with idiots. 

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