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Antifa: Left Wing Militants on the Rise


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47 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

they love talking about him. They are giving him exactly what he wants and making him legit to the bottom feeders looking to wear a swell uniform

It's funny because i lived in his district in the early 90's when idiots voted him in.  He since just faded away....until now. He makes great TV and you can thank the media for his resurrection.

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1 minute ago, GROOT said:

It's funny because i lived in his district in the early 90's when idiots voted him in.  He since just faded away....until now. He makes great TV and you can thank the media for his resurrection.

You can also thank Trump. 

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3 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

You can also thank Trump. 

You can also probably thank the rise of BLM and the media coverage  for the resurgence. Any positive story would play into his bases fear of anything nonwhite

Edited by HellToupee
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24 minutes ago, Ranethe said:

Yeah, I had just deleted that post you quoted because, while there's often significant overlap, "right wing domestic terrorism" does not always equal "White Supremacy" or neo nazi ideology.

But I agree with you. I suppose any group advocating violence should be kept close, I just don't think far left groups are going to require the level of vigilance that far right groups will here.

I understand.  To be clear, I'm not calling for similar infiltration of left-wing groups because I have no idea if they're as organized or terror-oriented as the Klan, for example.  The Weather Underground certainly warranted that kind of treatment, but I don't claim to know if the various groups that make up Antifa do.  The Klan definitely does.  

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42 minutes ago, Ranethe said:

Yeah, I had just deleted that post you quoted because, while there's often significant overlap, "right wing domestic terrorism" does not always equal "White Supremacy" or neo nazi ideology.

But I agree with you. I suppose any group advocating violence should be kept close, I just don't think far left groups are going to require the level of vigilance that far right groups will here.

Yeah, its not like Hoover ever overstepped the NAACP

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32 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Heck with that, these idiots supporting Nazis have made AntiFa a bunch of heroes in people's eyes.  How about that?

The majority of people in this country don't support white supremecy or communism. This is 2 fringe groups that act like they are the voice of the people. Newsflash...they aren't... How bout dat?

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19 minutes ago, GROOT said:

The majority of people in this country don't support white supremecy or communism. This is 2 fringe groups that act like they are the voice of the people. Newsflash...they aren't... How bout dat?

Well, no president ever has made a habit of retweeting AntiFa to all his followers.  So that's good. 

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Are we seriously debating the desirability of Antifa with examples of pre-fascist Italy being bandied about in here? 

I thought so. This place never fails to go off the rails and the deep end all at once. It's like a Trump press conference in reverse in here, only with slippery slopes and torturous logic!

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50 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Are we seriously debating the desirability of Antifa with examples of pre-fascist Italy being bandied about in here

I thought so. This place never fails to go off the rails and the deep end all at once. It's like a Trump press conference in reverse in here, only with slippery slopes and torturous logic!

That's not the vibe I'm getting, but I could be wrong. 

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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Are we seriously debating the desirability of Antifa with examples of pre-fascist Italy being bandied about in here? 

I thought so. This place never fails to go off the rails and the deep end all at once. It's like a Trump press conference in reverse in here, only with slippery slopes and torturous logic!

Link?

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9 hours ago, rockaction said:

Are we seriously debating the desirability of Antifa with examples of pre-fascist Italy being bandied about in here? 

I thought so. This place never fails to go off the rails and the deep end all at once. It's like a Trump press conference in reverse in here, only with slippery slopes and torturous logic!

No, mostly we're doing "both sides", "what about", and false equivalencies in here.

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12 hours ago, GROOT said:

It's funny because i lived in his district in the early 90's when idiots voted him in.  He since just faded away....until now. He makes great TV and you can thank the media for his resurrection.

Or, you know, the alt-right and the president. 

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9 hours ago, rockaction said:

Are we seriously debating the desirability of Antifa with examples of pre-fascist Italy being bandied about in here? 

I thought so. This place never fails to go off the rails and the deep end all at once. It's like a Trump press conference in reverse in here, only with slippery slopes and torturous logic!

No

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1 minute ago, Homer J Simpson said:

Not exactly a major theme of the thread.

My skimming of pages six and seven might have led to an erroneous conclusion, that's for sure. Usually I read the whole thing before I meta-comment about a thread.  

Edited by rockaction
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17 minutes ago, Workhorse said:

Some color on Antifa's role in Charlottesville per some of the non-violent anti-protesters/clergy on the ground:

 http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

I am sure there were some good people among those who were assaulting, insulting and terrorizing the non-violent protesters. They probably just got caught up in the moment.

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13 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Is it just me or does it seem like BLM and Antifa were really noisy under Obama but not so much under Trump?

BLM has been quiet, but Antifa has been quite active in CA.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-neo-nazi-event-stabbings-capitol-20160627-snap-story,amp.html

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Who are the antifa?

This is a well-done look at the movement from someone who is clearly qualified and has done his research. However a bit of googling tells me he's also sympathetic to their mission and methods. I'd be curious to read something similar from someone who opposes their mission and methods (someone qualified, not a Hannity rant or something)

.

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2 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Who are the antifa?

This is a well-done look at the movement from someone who is clearly qualified and has done his research. However a bit of googling tells me he's also sympathetic to their mission and methods. I'd be curious to read something similar from someone who opposes their mission and methods (someone qualified, not a Hannity rant or something)

.

Are you suggesting that Sean Hannity lacks journalistic integrity? Pshaw!

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9 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Who are the antifa?

This is a well-done look at the movement from someone who is clearly qualified and has done his research. However a bit of googling tells me he's also sympathetic to their mission and methods. I'd be curious to read something similar from someone who opposes their mission and methods (someone qualified, not a Hannity rant or something)

.

antifa can broadly be termed communist. The left-wing journalist who identifies as a form of socialist is naturally sympathetic to communists

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18 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Who are the antifa?

This is a well-done look at the movement from someone who is clearly qualified and has done his research. However a bit of googling tells me he's also sympathetic to their mission and methods. I'd be curious to read something similar from someone who opposes their mission and methods (someone qualified, not a Hannity rant or something)

.

Interesting piece, though you are right that his bias is clearly evident.

My concern with groups like this is that they believe they have moral justification for committing violent acts. In the case of fighting with Nazis in the street, many of us might support them at an emotional level, but that doesn't really make it okay.

Quote

Its adherents are predominantly communists, socialists and anarchists who reject turning to the police or the state to halt the advance of white supremacy.

Quote

Antifascists argue that after the horrors of chattel slavery and the Holocaust, physical violence against white supremacists is both ethically justifiable and strategically effective. We should not, they argue, abstractly assess the ethical status of violence in the absence of the values and context behind it.

What happens when they feel morally justified in rioting because of some other perceived (or real) social injustice? Marxist and Leninist philosophy isn't exactly squeamish about the use of violence to effect political change "for the greater good". In fact, it is a feature, not a bug, of those philosophies.

I suspect that there is a significant overlap between groups like this and the "Black bloc" anarchists who riot and commit mass vandalism at WTO meetings, G-20 summits, and on May Day in American cities.

 

Edited by RedmondLonghorn
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20 minutes ago, Jordan2xchamp said:

 

antifa can broadly be termed communist. The left-wing journalist who identifies as a form of socialist is naturally sympathetic to communists

Thanks but I'm gonna go ahead and defer to the history professor who is currently lecturing at an Ivy League school over the anonymous Steve Bannon fan who just started posting today and who thinks Trump is helping with race relations in America.  Like I said if you can provide a link to something written by someone with similar qualifications who has a different read on the group I would be very interested, thanks.

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4 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Thanks but I'm gonna go ahead and defer to the history professor who is currently lecturing at an Ivy League school over the anonymous Steve Bannon fan who just started posting today and who thinks Trump is helping with race relations in America.  Like I said if you can provide a link to something written by someone with similar qualifications who has a different read on the group I would be very interested, thanks.

The article itself indicates that its members "are predominantly communists, socialists and anarchists."

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24 minutes ago, RedmondLonghorn said:

Interesting piece, though you are right that his bias is clearly evident.

My concern with groups like this is that they believe they have moral justification for committing violent acts. In the case of fighting with Nazis in the street, many of us might support them at an emotional level, but that doesn't really make it okay.

What happens when they feel morally justified in rioting because of some other perceived (or real) social injustice? Marxist and Leninist philosophy isn't exactly squeamish about the use of violence to effect political change "for the greater good". In fact, it is a feature, not a bug, of those philosophies.

I suspect that there is a significant overlap between groups like this and the "Black bloc" anarchists who riot and commit mass vandalism at WTO meetings, G-20 summits, and on May Day in American cities.

 

I assume they would then be something other than simply anti-Fascist, and I probably would condemn them for that action. But based on this piece and what little else I know about them I'm like you- emotionally supportive, (especially as a Jew) but less sure about the ethics.

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1 minute ago, RedmondLonghorn said:

The article itself indicates that its members "are predominantly communists, socialists and anarchists."

Which is not remotely the same as saying that antifa = communists.  It would be like if I asked what the National Basketball Association is and someone told me they're black guys.

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13 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I assume they would then be something other than simply anti-Fascist, and I probably would condemn them for that action. But based on this piece and what little else I know about them I'm like you- emotionally supportive, (especially as a Jew) but less sure about the ethics.

The point is that they are something other than anti-Fascist.

It sounds like a lot of them did some real good on Friday and Saturday, but I can't view an organization or movement as positive when it explicitly endorses violence as a political tool.

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2 minutes ago, RedmondLonghorn said:

The point is that they are something other than anti-Fascist.

It sounds like a lot of them did some real good on Friday and Saturday, but I can't view an organization or movement as positive when it explicitly endorses violence as a political tool.

But simply saying they're "communist" seems to miss the point; the article doesn't really say anything about them pushing that or any related ideology and I don't see anything else suggesting they do. Saying they're mostly communists, socialists  and anarchists just happens to be a fact about the demographic- lots of people who do this ascribe to these three ideologies, two of which are kinda related.

I agree with your second sentence, I think. But as you recognized it's a tough pull emotionally, particularly for us Jews.

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14 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

But simply saying they're "communist" seems to miss the point; the article doesn't really say anything about them pushing that or any related ideology and I don't see anything else suggesting they do. Saying they're mostly communists, socialists  and anarchists just happens to be a fact about the demographic- lots of people who do this ascribe to these three ideologies, two of which are kinda related.

I agree with your second sentence, I think. But as you recognized it's a tough pull emotionally, particularly for us Jews.

I recognize that. I can't imagine what it might feel like to be a member of one of the groups that these Nazis are targeting, but I do share a visceral thrill when I see one of these scumbags get punched or terrorized. 

But we really can't normalize political violence and have things turn out okay. It just doesn't work that way.

As for the rest of your comments, I think you may be guilty of being a bit credulous about the membership, goals and aims of groups like this. Of course, I can't prove that people involved in Antifa are the same people that riot, destroy property and clash with police at the WTO meetings, G-20 summits, and other events. But my presumption is that there is a Venn diagram with a significant overlap, based on the tactics and rhetoric.

The fact there is a lot of propaganda about the group, on both sides, doesn't help matters much.

 

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14 minutes ago, RedmondLonghorn said:

I recognize that. I can't imagine what it might feel like to be a member of one of the groups that these Nazis are targeting, but I do share a visceral thrill when I see one of these scumbags get punched or terrorized. 

But we really can't normalize political violence and have things turn out okay. It just doesn't work that way.

As for the rest of your comments, I think you may be guilty of being a bit credulous about the membership, goals and aims of groups like this. Of course, I can't prove that people involved in Antifa are the same people that riot, destroy property and clash with police at the WTO meetings, G-20 summits, and other events. But my presumption is that there is a Venn diagram with a significant overlap, based on the tactics and rhetoric.

The fact there is a lot of propaganda about the group, on both sides, doesn't help matters much.

 

I suspect you may be right, but I really have no idea. That's part of the reason I wanted to see if anyone had any antifa analysis from some sort of expert who was coming at them from a different angle than the one I posted.

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Just now, TobiasFunke said:

I suspect you may be right, but I really have no idea. That's part of the reason I wanted to see if anyone had any antifa analysis from some sort of expert who was coming at them from a different angle than the one I posted.

Fair enough. I haven't seen anything like that.

My point was that even from the perspective of the piece written by an Antifa "fan", there are some very disconcerting things in evidence.

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On 8/15/2017 at 7:09 AM, Juxtatarot said:

I'm curious how one can be anti-government and anti-capitalist.  Seems to me that you've got to pick at least one.

 I've been reading the Wikipedia page on Anarchist economics.  That's some bat-#### crazy stuff.  I hadn't really thought about it much but I assumed an Anarchist economy would rely completely on the free-market.  I should have know better in retrospect.

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