Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

"Mass Casualty Event" in Las Vegas


bud29

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, Doug B said:

I think knowledge about any mass shooting informs future security efforts at public events. Crazies can't be 100% stopped, but they can be 95% mitigated against -- and it's probably possible to chip away at that remaining 5%. Knowledge helps. Just because the past can't be changed ... that doesn't mean knowledge about such events should be treated as irrelevant and not worth pursuing.

it may help police, security firms and government officials but what's being requested here is to release information to the general public. the general public, by and large, can't, won't or isn't going to do anything with evidentiary information except drum up crazy conspiracy theories and draw lines in the sand about guns/immigration/mental health/etc.

the people how need the evidence: police, lawyers, the FBI i'm sure are sifting through lots and lots of information

 

it's like when the media and public go crazy after a plane crash asking for "the truth" behind what happened. if it comes out too quickly, people go berserk poking holes in theories and say there's no way the NTSB could have had answers so quickly.  if it drags out too long, people cry conspiracy. 

where's the appropriate middle ground?

 

also "95% mitigated against"?????? this isn't some futuristic sci-fi flick. if it were true that these sorts of things were prevented 95% of the time.. holy sweet mother of #### what kind of world do you think we live in?

Edited by mr. furley
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Buttonhook said:

I'm not a consipiracy guy, or think that ISIS had anything to do with this.  My gut tells me it was a crazy guy acting alone, and if the investigation draws that final conclusions and provides evidence to back it up, that's all most people are looking for...  Show us how he got the stuff up there, show us how he did this on his own, take away all of the doubt and conspiracies and paint a clear picture of what happened.  

I realize investigators made some very general statements a short while after the shooting, that they thought he acted alone, but that's certainly not a final conclusion.

If you think the investigators know he acted alone, and have dug nothing else up, why not come out and say that and show us the evidence that supports that? 

 

 

Seriously, get off of any notion that it would require difficulty to get that stuff up into the room. Its a piece of cake to move stuff around in convention cities. 

It is very silly to even bring it up. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lovely....this is one reason why conspiracy theories are dangerous.  

Las Vegas shooting victim slammed with death threats: ‘I hope someone truly shoots you’

 

Quote

 

A Canadian man who survived getting shot in the head during the massacre at a Las Vegas country music festival has been bombarded with death threats from online conspiracy theorists.

Braden Matejka barely escaped the Route 91 Harvest festival with his life after Stephen Paddock fired a barrage of bullets from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino down on the outdoor concert below. The 64-year-old gunman killed 58 people and injured hundreds more, Matejka among them.

“You are a lying piece of s--- and I hope someone truly shoots you in the head,” one person wrote to Matejka on Facebook in the days after the worst shooting in modern U.S. history.

Another wrote: “Your soul is disgusting and dark! You will Pay for the consequences.”

Matejka’s family told the Guardian people have also taken to making memes with his photos and pairing them with crude captions. The shooting survivor was forced to shut down his social media accounts, but his loved ones are still being targeted by those who believe the deadly incident was a hoax.

“There are all these families dealing with likely the most horrific thing they’ll ever experience, and they are also met with hate and anger and are being attacked online about being part of some conspiracy,” his brother, Taylor Matejka, told the Guardian.

“It’s madness I can’t imagine the thought process of these people. Do they know that we are actual people?”

Conspiracy theorists, many of whom believe the government staged the Oct. 1 shooting or that it did not happen at all, have targeted survivors, dubbing them “crisis actors,” hired to pose as victims.

Taylor said he tried responding to some of the posts, but that none of their authors were interested in hearing reason.

“A really sad part of this is that a lot of people think they’re fighting the good fight and exposing truth,” he said.

Matejka traveled to the festival from his native Canada with girlfriend Amanda Homulos to celebrate his 30th birthday.

When the gunfire broke out, Matejka was knocked to the ground after a bullet struck him the head. Homulos, who was not injured, was able to make it inside the car of another concertgoer, who drove them to the hospital.

His wound was not life-threatening, and the couple earlier this month recalled their harrowing escape in an on-camera interview with the Associated Press.

“I’m just so grateful that we’re still here, and I can’t express how sorry I am for the people that didn’t make it,” Homulos said through her tears.

 

 

Disgusting

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

Lovely....this is one reason why conspiracy theories are dangerous.  

Las Vegas shooting victim slammed with death threats: ‘I hope someone truly shoots you’

 

 

Disgusting

what in the mother ####### hell. :hot: 

same people who think sandy hook is fake too, I'd wager. ####### miserable scum.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, General Malaise said:

Yeah, the Sandy Hook deniers are the lowest scum on the ladder, though it sounds like the Vegas shooting conspiracy culprits are catching up, errrrrr down.

they even have videos to watch of this thing. which I guess in their ####ed up pea-brains were all staged?

the world decided to screw with them by hiring thousands and thousands of actors so some kind of agenda is advanced? hospitals, 1st responders, families, friends, places of worship... all in on the scam. because... lemme guess... the liberal media wants to get rid of guns? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

I’m not a conspiracy guy. I’m an Occam’s razor guy. So I came to this story late. But so much of this story is circumspect, from the time line discrepensies to the flat out bizarre conduct by this guard in the aftermath. All stuff worth of an answer in my mind. 

 

 

did you watch the NYTimes link? pretty good idea of a timeline there. 

you need an answer for why some random security guard doesn't want to have to stand in front the world and get hammered with questions about the worst mass shooting in US history? that needs answering for you to NOT believe this is what it is and isn't a conspiracy? 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, kevzilla said:

I am reasonably confident that Mandalay Bay staff carried stuff up to that room, and it's on tape. I also understand why MGM would not want to release it, both for corporate liability and "OMG ACCOMPLICE" from the extra-crunchy nutbars in this thread and elsewhere. If you're a dropout who lives on tips, what are you going to do when a high roller starts spreading cash around?

That is the only conspiracy IMO; a liability cover up by MGM resorts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

I’m not a conspiracy guy. I’m an Occam’s razor guy. So I came to this story late. But so much of this story is circumspect, from the time line discrepensies to the flat out bizarre conduct by this guard in the aftermath. All stuff worth of an answer in my mind. 

 

 

You want answers as to why a security guard (not a cop, not active member of military but a security guard) was acting bizarrely after being shot and exposed to terror and carnage so traumatic that he'll likely never be the same?  That's the answer you want?  Not why this lunatic shot other humans or why this lunatic was able to buy so many machine guns without raising a red flag?  Huh.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gotta more to the story. The girlfriend must know something and I'm curious what exactly she said to the investigators. What caused him to accumulate over 30 guns in the past year? Why did he book the high view room at the other festival? It seems like he was thinking about doing this for a little while. What was his motive?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

they even have videos to watch of this thing. which I guess in their ####ed up pea-brains were all staged?

the world decided to screw with them by hiring thousands and thousands of actors so some kind of agenda is advanced? hospitals, 1st responders, families, friends, places of worship... all in on the scam. because... lemme guess... the liberal media wants to get rid of guns? 

Makes me sick.  Especially in light of the fact that literally NOTHING changed in the world of gun ownership in this country.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, El Floppo said:

did you watch the NYTimes link? pretty good idea of a timeline there. 

you need an answer for why some random security guard doesn't want to have to stand in front the world and get hammered with questions about the worst mass shooting in US history? that needs answering for you to NOT believe this is what it is and isn't a conspiracy? 

 

 

I think there are different levels of conspiracy.  They could range from simply "the fbi didn't tell us what he ate for breakfast!" to "Putin hired him on the behalf of ISIS to carry out the attack". 

That being said, it's fruitful for EVERYONE to know what drive him to do this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, eoMMan said:

I think there are different levels of conspiracy.  They could range from simply "the fbi didn't tell us what he ate for breakfast!" to "Putin hired him on the behalf of ISIS to carry out the attack". 

That being said, it's fruitful for EVERYONE to know what drive him to do this. 

of course. we all want to know why this happened. 

but it's only some of us who want to make #### up in our heads about it and then try to engage other people about the made up stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there's a reddit thread surrounding the famous photo of Ruby shooting Oswald. someone linked the video. a discussion started around the sound quality of the gunshot.  some people are debating that it's an actual gunshot. 

billions of people in the world. billions of opinions. most of them are.... rational.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

there's a reddit thread surrounding the famous photo of Ruby shooting Oswald. someone linked the video. a discussion started around the sound quality of the gunshot.  some people are debating that it's an actual gunshot. 

billions of people in the world. billions of opinions. most of them are.... rational.

"there's a reddit thread"

I think we know the real problem.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

I think there are different levels of conspiracy.  They could range from simply "the fbi didn't tell us what he ate for breakfast!" to "Putin hired him on the behalf of ISIS to carry out the attack". 

That being said, it's fruitful for EVERYONE to know what drive him to do this. 

After hearing an expert on mass shootings being interviewed on the radio, I strongly disagree. In a nutshell, giving out details provides a blueprint for others who may wish to do similar attacks. The best remedy is to humanize the victims, tell stories of their lives and those of the hero's who rose to the occasion, like the guy who stole a truck to transport people to the hospital. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Seriously, get off of any notion that it would require difficulty to get that stuff up into the room. Its a piece of cake to move stuff around in convention cities. 

It is very silly to even bring it up. 

I'm not questioning "how he got all that stuff up to his room without anyone noticing?"  Don't care, because I know that's easy in Vegas.  But it would be nice to prove the theory that he did this on his own, meaning he didn't have other accomplices, and review and analysis of the hotel videos should reveal that.  That was my point. 

17 hours ago, mr. furley said:

again.... why? what does it do?

Why was so much of the investigative findings and information quickly spoon-fed to America during most other tragedies (bombings in Oklahoma/Boston, 911, Sandy Hook, Columbine...)?  It surely wasn't to try to solve something as you seem to be insinuating.

So why is this one different?  I think it's a fair question to ask.  Maybe, as others have suggested, they are concerned with legal ramifications, maybe they are concerned with someone else trying to duplicate the plan, or maybe they are not releasing the information because (fill in the blank)... no one really knows.  But if these are actually the reasons information is not being released, why release all of this information during previous tragedies - shouldn't they have had the same concerns about liability and duplication after those previous tragedies?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Johnny Rock said:

After hearing an expert on mass shootings being interviewed on the radio, I strongly disagree. In a nutshell, giving out details provides a blueprint for others who may wish to do similar attacks. The best remedy is to humanize the victims, tell stories of their lives and those of the hero's who rose to the occasion, like the guy who stole a truck to transport people to the hospital. 

I agree with what you're saying, but fwiw... eoman's talking about motive, not method. 

and I agree with him that it's important to know why somebody does this and what lead them to that point.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Buttonhook said:

I'm not questioning "how he got all that stuff up to his room without anyone noticing?"  Don't care, because I know that's easy in Vegas.  But it would be nice to prove the theory that he did this on his own, meaning he didn't have other accomplices, and review and analysis of the hotel videos should reveal that.  That was my point. 

Why was so much of the investigative findings and information quickly spoon-fed to America during most other tragedies (bombings in Oklahoma/Boston, 911, Sandy Hook, Columbine...)?  It surely wasn't to try to solve something as you seem to be insinuating.

So why is this one different?  I think it's a fair question to ask.  Maybe, as others have suggested, they are concerned with legal ramifications, maybe they are concerned with someone else trying to duplicate the plan, or maybe they are not releasing the information because (fill in the blank)... no one really knows.  But if these are actually the reasons information is not being released, why release all of this information during previous tragedies - shouldn't they have had the same concerns about liability and duplication after those previous tragedies?

the difference here seems to be that law enforcement is finally learning from its mistakes

let's not forget that after McVeigh bombed the Murrah building APB's were broadcast on national news for 2 "muslim looking men".. set America on its ear. turned out to be exactly wrong.

after the Boston Marathon bombings social media went berserk trying to solve the crime and caused a lot of problems for law enforcement. 

seems more likely they're trying to avoid a repeat in this new age of digital media vs. covering up a conspiracy to save the casinos.

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Buttonhook said:

I'm not questioning "how he got all that stuff up to his room without anyone noticing?"  Don't care, because I know that's easy in Vegas.  But it would be nice to prove the theory that he did this on his own, meaning he didn't have other accomplices, and review and analysis of the hotel videos should reveal that.  That was my point. 

Why was so much of the investigative findings and information quickly spoon-fed to America during most other tragedies (bombings in Oklahoma/Boston, 911, Sandy Hook, Columbine...)?  It surely wasn't to try to solve something as you seem to be insinuating.

So why is this one different?  I think it's a fair question to ask.  Maybe, as others have suggested, they are concerned with legal ramifications, maybe they are concerned with someone else trying to duplicate the plan, or maybe they are not releasing the information because (fill in the blank)... no one really knows.  But if these are actually the reasons information is not being released, why release all of this information during previous tragedies - shouldn't they have had the same concerns about liability and duplication after those previous tragedies?

This is a different police force. It would be one thing if they were releasing all sorts of other photos, but not releasing photos of him in the casino. The difference here is only one entity is going to have photos of this guy or of anything related before the incident. That entity, the hotel hasn't released any photos at all. 

This article seems to suggest he used the freight/service elevator and they say he had a bellman helping him twice. 

If true it is easy to see why they wouldn't be releasing photos to the public. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

This is a different police force. It would be one thing if they were releasing all sorts of other photos, but not releasing photos of him in the casino. The difference here is only one entity is going to have photos of this guy or of anything related before the incident. That entity, the hotel hasn't released any photos at all. 

This article seems to suggest he used the freight/service elevator and they say he had a bellman helping him twice. 

If true it is easy to see why they wouldn't be releasing photos to the public. 

It's not uncommon for guests to accompany bell men with their luggage in the freight elevators in Vegas.  Vegas is home to lots of conventions and I can personally tell you that I annually attend the high end jewelry and watch convention that is actually held at the Mandalay Bay. Many of the exhibitors will accompany the Bellmen up to their room in the freight elevators because they don't want to lose sight of their belongings for obvious reasons.  Hotels can't really have control over what every guest takes into their room.  As long as Mandalay Bay is cooperating with law enforcement and the authorities in regards to sharing evidence- the public is not entitled to anything from them.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, El Floppo said:

they even have videos to watch of this thing. which I guess in their ####ed up pea-brains were all staged?

the world decided to screw with them by hiring thousands and thousands of actors so some kind of agenda is advanced? hospitals, 1st responders, families, friends, places of worship... all in on the scam. because... lemme guess... the liberal media wants to get rid of guns? 

Don't forget that "they" somehow also managed to get a popular country singer to be part of the scam. :tinfoilhat:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, tommyboy said:

the ny times video is brutal,  had to turn it off

I made it through barely. When they showed some of the CPR happening, I about lost it. Ugh

And obviously nobody knows what they would do in that situation, but I doubt very much that I would be 1) filming the thing on my phone while gunshots pour over my head, or 2) standing and finishing my beer.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, the moops said:

I made it through barely. When they showed some of the CPR happening, I about lost it. Ugh

And obviously nobody knows what they would do in that situation, but I doubt very much that I would be 1) filming the thing on my phone while gunshots pour over my head, or 2) standing and finishing my beer.

 

Lying on the ground was actually less safe. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Lying on the ground was actually less safe. 

It changes the way people will react during mass shootings. When you think about other events, they've happened indoors or it was a situation where the shooter was known to be at ground level. The safest thing to do was to shelter in place, get on the ground, or hide behind something. Nobody would expect a shooter to be in an elevated position. Add in the element of darkness and it was nearly impossible to identify the location of the shooter. (and how to protect yourself)

Sadly, I have a feeling this just educated future shooters. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, eoMMan said:

Gotta more to the story. The girlfriend must know something and I'm curious what exactly she said to the investigators. What caused him to accumulate over 30 guns in the past year? Why did he book the high view room at the other festival? It seems like he was thinking about doing this for a little while. What was his motive?

Is there a motive for shooting at thousands of people that will make you think "Oh yeah, that makes sense"?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Homer J Simpson said:

Is there a motive for shooting at thousands of people that will make you think "Oh yeah, that makes sense"?

No, but something in the past couple of years drove him to do it. He had a relatively successfully life....why get to age 60 or whatever the hell age he was and decide to shoot a ton of people?

Nothing will "make sense" or give a valid reason but something drive him to do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Smack Tripper said:

I’m not a conspiracy guy. I’m an Occam’s razor guy. So I came to this story late. But so much of this story is circumspect, from the time line discrepensies to the flat out bizarre conduct by this guard in the aftermath. All stuff worth of an answer in my mind. 

 

 

I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, tommyboy said:

The safest thing to do is rarely shelter in place in most terror/murder attacks. The training on this has evolved the last several years away from shelter in place. First thing to do is get away.

True. We had one of the local police response units at out office this week to train all of us in management first. That part stood out as it would be common human nature. 

All of the data says all these guys want is body count and your only real options are fight or flight; same immediate vicinity it’s training for maximum participation fight, further away its flight. Less ideal is barricade if you must. Worst is stop and pray cause you’re an easy target and sympathy has zero impact on this kind of assailant. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GoBirds said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-security-guard-155719743.html

 

The lawsuit MGM has headed its way will be massive, deserved or not. How strong is MGM and can it survive this? The pending legal issues I assume is a big part of what we haven't heard or seen. 

MGM owns almost 90% of the hotel/casinos on the strip. (According to the 20/20 report or "near") It is assumed the security guard is being kept in hiding for fear of negligence on MGM's part.*

*Just going with what I saw and what people on the show "speculated."

Edited by Tony Jabroni
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GoBirds said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-security-guard-155719743.html

 

The lawsuit MGM has headed its way will be massive, deserved or not. How strong is MGM and can it survive this? The pending legal issues I assume is a big part of what we haven't heard or seen. 

Not saying I disagree, but what is MGM's liability in this situation? How would they have mitigated what a person takes into their room? Also, the concert was across the street (not sure if it was MGM property) does the concert promoter take any liability?

My understanding is blame comes through negligence. How were they negligent?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GoBirds said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-security-guard-155719743.html

 

The lawsuit MGM has headed its way will be massive, deserved or not. How strong is MGM and can it survive this? The pending legal issues I assume is a big part of what we haven't heard or seen. 

Plus it owns casinos elsewhere....including the best one in AC...the Borgata.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, KCitons said:

Not saying I disagree, but what is MGM's liability in this situation? How would they have mitigated what a person takes into their room? Also, the concert was across the street (not sure if it was MGM property) does the concert promoter take any liability?

My understanding is blame comes through negligence. How were they negligent?

Not saying they are to blame but people sue for anything, no doubt some slimy lawyers are drooling over this unfortunate mess. 

I guess an insurance company would be at risk more than MGM?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/28/2017 at 5:49 PM, GoBirds said:

Not saying they are to blame but people sue for anything, no doubt some slimy lawyers are drooling over this unfortunate mess. 

I guess an insurance company would be at risk more than MGM?

I am sure lawyers were lining up down the street at the hospital ready to make their pitch. It is disgusting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, tom22406 said:

It came from this interview-Link

that link didn't discuss whatever gobirds referenced, in regards to two off-duty cops.

but of note:

Quote

 

"We can see that there [were] exits in the plans, in the maps. And then when you're actually there, you can see that most of the exits were blocked, many of the exits were behind fences, and there [were] really only two places in which to escape," Eiland said. "And that's very concerning, especially when people got hit and killed ten minutes after the shooting started."

As for gunman Stephen Paddock, Eiland revealed that he arrived at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino with ten bags, and two bellhops helped him carry those bags to his room on the 32nd floor. He said those bags contained more than 20 guns and 5,000 rounds of ammunition.

 

still bizarre to me that people wouldn't understand how somebody would get all of that up to his room. 

but troubling about the closed off exits... or at least, the appearance of troubling to shore up suits against whoever organized the event.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...