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"Mass Casualty Event" in Las Vegas


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56 minutes ago, lakerstan said:

No balcony - they don't have them.  He shot out the window, then opened fire.

I've stayed at mandalay countless times and didn't think it possible to open the windows. Any idea how he got it open?

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3 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

So in your mind taking away the right to own guns would have prevented this?  Damn I really hate gun grabbers when they try to use these incidents as agenda firebrands.  Just disgusting.

It's not an "agenda firebrand" it's a person outraged about the incident trying to figure out how to stop these, just like people who want to ban refugees and Middle East immigrants (which we constantly hear after other acts of terrorism.) 

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4 minutes ago, Zow said:

Guy apparently had zero priors. People aren't going to stop assembling in large groups for events. And we can't snap our fingers and make all guns automatically disappear (with perhaps more than half of the population not wanting this even if it were an option). 

Don't see any way this is plausibly prevented. 

I don't know what to suggest, Zow. I certainly don't want to get into yet another gun control argument. They're frustrating, useless, and there's nothing anyone can say on whatever side of it that we all haven't heard a billion times already. 

But it goes against my nature, and I think, that of a lot of people, when every time something like this happens we all sigh and say "well it couldn't be helped" and then move on with our lives until the next one happens. That just seems wrong to me. 

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This one doesn't fit into a narrative of one that will stay in the news very long.  No kids were shot, the perp was killed, wasn't a muslim.  Just some lonely old white guy with some grudge we don't care about.

Already trending downwards on Reddit and the story for most people isn't even 2 hours old.   Strange world we live in.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, massraider said:

Now really isn't the time for personal politics.  

Thank you. There is a politics forum for those types of discussions. 

I can perhaps contribute from a weapon perspective.. there are several options as to how he could have been achieving that rate of fire :

Fully Auto Weapon: Generally illegal but may have been procured illegally. There is a reason Auto weapons are rarely used in these shootings. 

Bump-fire stock: A specialized stock that, when combined with a trigger/grip technique, uses the recoil of the firearm to engage a rapid-fire loop. Fully legal (questionably so). It's difficult to maintain high/consistent rate of fire with a bump stock so may not have been the case here. 

Trigger Crank: Some redneck figured out that you can mount a special crank onto the trigger assembly and it will fire 4 rounds with every revolution. IMO This is more likely culprit given the sustained rate of fire. It's a bit tougher to control the rifle recoil, or to shoot accurately using this system... but with this type of shooting, precision wasn't really required. These are legal and IMO shouldn't be. 

Modifying most post-1970s era Semi-Autos to full-auto is generally very difficult for the average person... just for future reference in this discussion. 

Edited by [icon]
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3 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Seriously, keep the politics out this is a tragedy. 

:shrug:

It's all part of the story though. And part of the dicussion as to why this happened and how to prevent any future tragedies. Just as it is discussed in muslim terrorist attacks, or in planned parenthood attacks, or southern church attacks, or on and on. I see no reason why politics should stay out of this one.

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17 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

So in your mind taking away the right to own guns would have prevented this?  Damn I really hate gun grabbers when they try to use these incidents as agenda firebrands.  Just disgusting.

No.

Keep your bolt action hunting rifles, pump action shot guns and pistols with reasonable sized mags (less than 15 shots). Protect your home, hunt if you'd like, go to the range and shoot for sport.

There's no reason for anyone to own a weapon capable of causing this kind of damage. None. It's not what the founding fathers intended and our understanding  of the 2nd amendment can evolve just like others have.

I'm not a political person. I've never voted in my entire life. Several members of my family hunt and a few of them have open carry licenses. I'm ok with all that. Let's just stop giving lunatics the tools to commit mass murder.  I'll wait to see what guns this guy had before fully passing judgement but the videos seem to indicate that was firing way more rounds than a civilian should be allowed to fire.

Sorry if you feel that infringes on your rights to hunt or protect your land. 

Edited by TLEF316
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Just now, the moops said:

:shrug:

It's all part of the story though. And part of the dicussion as to why this happened and how to prevent any future tragedies. Just as it is discussed in muslim terrorist attacks, or in planned parenthood attacks, or southern church attacks, or on and on. I see no reason why politics should stay out of this one.

This is in FFA and for those that want to follow the facts of this tragic situation and not filter through political fighting, there is a sub forum for that where you could open a thread to start political battles.

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7 minutes ago, the moops said:

:shrug:

 I see no reason why politics should stay out of this one.

Because this is the FFA. Please take political discussions to the politics forum. Thanks, GB. 

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2 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

This is in FFA and for those that want to follow the facts of this tragic situation and not filter through political fighting, there is a sub forum for that where you could open a thread to start political battles.

:goodposting:

what a sad day.

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Wow---un-effing-believable. Thoughts and prayers to to everybody.  These were people coming to have the time of their lives in one of the funnest places in the world--and one disturbed individual destroyed and damaged so many lives.   I can never understand this nor would I ever want to.   As a Vegas land owner and a guy that calls Vegas his second home--I can tell you that I'm not super surprised that semi-automatic/fully automatic guns are around in Vegas.   Nevada is a state where gun ownership is pretty damn high and with this--people customizing or modifying their weapons is not super uncommon.  I'm not saying this to start or participate in any sort of gun debate--I'm just providing this information to those of who wonder how anybody could have guns of this caliber.   

Obviously there is no bright side to this story--but I can tell you as a Vegas guy--this could have been much worse.  I'm not sure if any of you have been to Vegas for New Years--but if this happened during that--this could have had an exponentially higher death toll. I can't imagine how this tragedy won't effect large events in areas around taller buildings.  I still cannot believe that this happened.  

Edited by jvdesigns2002
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8 minutes ago, [icon] said:

 

Modifying most post-1970s era Semi-Autos to full-auto is generally very difficult for the average person... just for future reference in this discussion. 

Now I'm puzzled Icon. I regard you and Ditkaless Wonders as generally the most knowledgeable gun owners in this forum. Yet a short time earlier DW said it was relatively easy to make this conversion- he said all it takes is a file- and you're saying it's very difficult. Which is it? 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Now I'm puzzled Icon. I regard you and Ditkaless Wonders as generally the most knowledgeable gun owners in this forum. Yet a short time earlier DW said it was relatively easy to make this conversion- he said all it takes is a file- and you're saying it's very difficult. Which is it? 

Why don't we just wait to see what types of guns he had.  

 

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Let me answer the question of balconies/open windows in Vegas. Most Vegas hotel rooms don't have balconies or windows that open.   I was always told that this was to prevent prevent people from committing suicide.  This is a city that is built on drinking, gambling, adult entertainment..etc--which can all be fun things--but they also can be things that trigger negative emotional responses from many.  Some of the higher end hotel rooms or hotels that were converted residences might have balconies or windows that open--but most do not.   A room from the 30th+ floor at the Mandalay would most likely not have a window that opens.  My guess is that he shot the window out.   

Edited by jvdesigns2002
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1 minute ago, Courtjester said:

The view from the helicopter they are showing right now shows no balcony.  The guy broke the window out and just shot from the room--crazy

I have a picture in my mind of the scene from Die Hard when Bruce Willis smashes a window and fires down at the police car to get his attention-with an assault rifle, if I recall correctly. 

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http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/02/man-covers-wife-during-shooting-in-las-vegas-orig-tc.cnn/video/playlists/atv-breaking-news/

You can say what you want but it sure sounds like a full auto weapon to me. Watch the video, about 23 seconds in you here it. For some reason that doesn't sound like a typical AR to me but I'm not anywhere near familiar with this weapons.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I don't know James. That's why I wrote I was open to suggestions.

And maybe there should be metal detectors at hotels, shopping centers, where ever there is the potential of large numbers of people gathered. Maybe we need to go there.

Plz stop.

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I heard the guy had an arsenal of weapons in his room.  I am wondering how large and how many bags he would need to carry this stuff in.   Pretty sad to think he was just bringing this stuff in through the garage, up the elevator, walking down the hall and into his room.   What a sick PoS.

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13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Now I'm puzzled Icon. I regard you and Ditkaless Wonders as generally the most knowledgeable gun owners in this forum. Yet a short time earlier DW said it was relatively easy to make this conversion- he said all it takes is a file- and you're saying it's very difficult. Which is it? 

Depends on a number of factors, the weapon, the trigger configuration, and how generally handy and mechanically inclined one is.  I stand by not hard.

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Seemingly starting to get confirmations that he had several weapons (10+) but a late soviet lmg was at least what started it.  May have switched between several different flavors as they overheated and subsequently set off the fire alarm.  Even a bump fired AK is going to start smoking.  

When I get my 308 going good it can cover the area in smoke, some of that is due to the muzzle break, however which I don't think you could deal with a muzzle break on a full auto but tbh I haven't ever shot full auto so dunno.

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17 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

RSR Only.

Hunting rifle, shotgun and revolver.  6 shot max capacity.

Can protect your home and go hunting.

Can we just agree on that?

Do you think people are are okay with committing mass murder are concerned with gun laws? 

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Just now, WhatDoIKnow said:

Someone on CNN brought up golf bags, or golf bag cases like you would take to the airport.  No one would think twice about someone wheeling that through a hotel lobby.  They probably see that multiple times a day.

Yes I could see how that would work and go unnoticed.

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6 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Seemingly starting to get confirmations that he had several weapons (10+) but a late soviet lmg was at least what started it.  May have switched between several different flavors as they overheated and subsequently set off the fire alarm.  Even a bump fired AK is going to start smoking.  

When I get my 308 going good it can cover the area in smoke, some of that is due to the muzzle break, however which I don't think you could deal with a muzzle break on a full auto but tbh I haven't ever shot full auto so dunno.

Interesting... could you share the link? 

Thx 

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Just found out that some friends of ours were at the concert. They made it out OK.

Posted on FB that they are"fine but terrified". JFC

Also there is a rumor that a local cop was attending the concert and was killed.  But that has not been confirmed.

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5 minutes ago, Joe T said:

Plz stop.

It's weird. If its a train crash we are allowed to talk about solutions. No porblem. If it were a chemical spill we can talk about solutions. Absolutely.  

But we can't talk about solutions to gun violence because apparently it hurts peoples fee fees and its just beyond the pale. Off to the fainting couches. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Now I'm puzzled Icon. I regard you and Ditkaless Wonders as generally the most knowledgeable gun owners in this forum. Yet a short time earlier DW said it was relatively easy to make this conversion- he said all it takes is a file- and you're saying it's very difficult. Which is it? 

The file takes a gunsmith level of knowledge to be able to do.  Dw is right though, takes less than 15 minutes to complete if you know what you are doing(farther is a gun smith) 

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Just now, Jackstraw said:

It's weird. If its a train crash we are allowed to talk about solutions. No porblem. If it were a chemical spill we can talk about solutions. Absolutely.  

But we can't talk about solutions to gun violence because apparently it hurts peoples fee fees and its just beyond the pale. Off to the fainting couches. 

 

 

And I want even suggesting any kind of gun restriction. My comments were about extra metal detectors, and in the form of a question rather than an assertion. 

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