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Are athletes really getting faster, better, stronger? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GROOT
- Start date
Fat Nick
Footballguy
This.RokNRole said:
I'd argue that the emphasis on speed/strength is actually de-emphasizing skill in some sports. If you can run a 4-flat 40, nobody will care if you know the whole route tree or if you have stone hands. Meanwhile Jerry Rice had pedestrian speed by NFL WR standards.
rockaction
Footballguy
Interesting talk.
Capella
Footballguy
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Not saying that's the only way it works these days, but I'd argue that there are a lot more Darrius Heyward-Bey types in today's NFL than there were 30 years ago.
Basically, there's a growing gap that values combine metrics more while valuing good fundamentals and skill less.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Thanks for this. I'm fascinated by this subject but hadn't seen this lecture, it's great stuff.GROOT said:
I disagree with the posters who think we're getting faster and stronger but not better. If anything I think you'd see more improvement across time in skill sports that have a lot of variables like football than in simplistic individual sports like swimming and running, because there are more avenues for progress. Football players aren't just getting faster and stronger with technological improvements and with the larger talent pool thanks to salary increases, they're also getting much smarter about the game thanks to access to and quality of video.
To use the Jerry Rice example- when Jerry Rice was playing, cornerbacks who had to play him the next week could only watch standard video of him playing in the film room. Now they could have a video assistant give them an edited collection with HD video of every route Rice has run, from multiple angles so they can study for cues and tendencies, in a package they can watch any time they want. Obviously Rice would still be awesome if he was in his prime now because he could do the same with footage of the cornerbacks, but the point is that the overall quality of performance goes up at a pretty decent clip over time.
-OZ-
Footballguy
He kinda helps prove Nick's point if he just meant draft stock or entry into pro sports.
Antonio was the 23rd receiver drafted, a 6th round pick from Central Michigan. Not even the first receiver drafted by the Steelers that year.
During his second season when he would eclipse 1,000 yards receiving he only started 3 games. He didn't become ANTONIO ####### BROWN!!! Until his 4th season.
So yes, you can succeed if you're not blazingly fast, but the opportunities aren't as forthcoming, even after you've shown potential.
Capella
Footballguy
I don't know, seems like there are tons of really great route runners in the league right now. Hell the Patriots entire offense runs because of it.
tdoss
Footballguy
I really think something has changed with bone density in our nation.
There are way too many injuries and it can't all be explained away with, "they're so much faster and stronger now".
Guys will get injured just falling to the ground or simple hits that don't even amount to much.
And it's not like they're playing on the old carpeted concrete that used to be the Eagles field either.
Something has changed across the board...diet maybe?
There are way too many injuries and it can't all be explained away with, "they're so much faster and stronger now".
Guys will get injured just falling to the ground or simple hits that don't even amount to much.
And it's not like they're playing on the old carpeted concrete that used to be the Eagles field either.
Something has changed across the board...diet maybe?
-OZ-
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
I think their muscles have outgrown the connecting tissues and bone structure and thereby puts to much stress on said tissues and bone structure.....advancements in steroids and growth hormone therapy...Or they are #######
I was going to say the exact same thing. With diet and knowledge of how to increase muscle mass and strength the items you cannot strengthen (tendon's, etc) now become the weak point and are damaged more frequently because they cannot handle the stress. I would say this also includes the skeleton as it wasn't necessarily meant to carry that much muscle mass naturally so many items are being overstressed to the point of breaking.
It is one of the biggest factors I think there is when it comes to pitchers and UCL injuries. They are developing all the muscles in the arm/body to throw harder and eventually the UCL snaps because it can't be strengthened and becomes the weak link.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Even standards of his day.
Larry Bird had way more skill than many of the idiots today.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Interesting video for sure.
The top end speed may not have that great of a difference as he stated..but the overall size and speed I believe in much different. The Miami Dolphins undefeated team of 1972 had lines that averaged 240 LBs, their ML was 210lbs. The lines in todays games are pushing 300lbs and are much faster and athletic. The fast guys then would still be fast today but the size difference is immense. QB Bob Griese was 6-0 190lbs. Griese would not be signed as a FA today let alone drafted.
Also agree that the human body is at a breaking point given all the weight and speed training. When a naturally 215lb man trains up to 250-260 and can run a 4.5 40 something is going to give. That is why we are seeing so many non-contact knee injuries.
The top end speed may not have that great of a difference as he stated..but the overall size and speed I believe in much different. The Miami Dolphins undefeated team of 1972 had lines that averaged 240 LBs, their ML was 210lbs. The lines in todays games are pushing 300lbs and are much faster and athletic. The fast guys then would still be fast today but the size difference is immense. QB Bob Griese was 6-0 190lbs. Griese would not be signed as a FA today let alone drafted.
Also agree that the human body is at a breaking point given all the weight and speed training. When a naturally 215lb man trains up to 250-260 and can run a 4.5 40 something is going to give. That is why we are seeing so many non-contact knee injuries.
You mean smoking half a pack during halftime while downing two or three beers didn't let them get to their full potential?
culdeus
Footballguy
Women are by far the largest growth area for orthos. Women physical structure makes them more vulnerable to ACL injury by the way their hip joint works to allow for birthing. Female ACL surgery isn't up just a little bit, it's up 300% since 1994! This corresponds with the rise of women in major sports and title 9 etc. etc.
If I had to guess this is due to sports specialization. People pick one sport, that generally uses one specific joint alot and stress it. They practice the sport, rather than general conditioning.
20 years ago people didn't pick a club sport and stick with it 12 months out of the year. This to me is the main cause, along with a lack of general conditioning.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Athletes are like pocket battleships....they're sacrificing armor and structure for speed and weaponry. That's why they're getting hurt more.....their internal connectors can't handle the stress.
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jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Cool video. Props to the OP for sharing it. It kinda seems like one of the biggest points he makes is not that we are far more athletically superior now- we just have better technology and we know what body types are better for which sports. We're essentially using and applying our brains and knowledge more, the sheer "athletic" superiority is nominal at best.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Well he certainly missed one factor that understates athletic improvement.
To ride a bike at 15 mph takes 91 watts
To ride a bike at 20 mph takes 185 watts, + 94
To ride a bike at 25 mph takes 333 watts, + 148
To ride a bike at 30 mph takes 550 watts, + 217
To ride a bike at 35 mph takes 847 watts, + 297
To ride a bike at 40 mph takes 1240 watts, + 393
To ride a bike at 15 mph takes 91 watts
To ride a bike at 20 mph takes 185 watts, + 94
To ride a bike at 25 mph takes 333 watts, + 148
To ride a bike at 30 mph takes 550 watts, + 217
To ride a bike at 35 mph takes 847 watts, + 297
To ride a bike at 40 mph takes 1240 watts, + 393
tdoss
Footballguy
There's definitely specialization going on...it's weird how many football players cannot hit a baseball or make a simple jump shot. Or basketball players who can't make a 40 yard spiral pass.
Get them out of their sport and so many are fish out of water.
Get them out of their sport and so many are fish out of water.
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Wrigley
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
Of course they are faster. You ever look at Olympic track times from now opposed to 30 years ago? That's a ridiculous thing to say.
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Wrigley
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
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MikeIke
Footballguy
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
He also had way more skill than many of the idiots who came before him and many of his idiotic contemporaries. You're talking about arguably the most-skilled NBA player ever.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Antonio Brown was mostly drafted in the 6th round because he went to Central Michigan. Brown was a high school track star. Couldn't get into FSU due to grades, played QB at a technical school, went to FIU but was kicked out after a fight and then ended up at Central Michigan and switching to WR. He was very good at Central but he was no transcendent. His best season as a receiver was 1200 and 9.
There are lots of great technicians today: Keenan Allen, Thielen and Diggs, Sanders, Edelman, Fitzgerald.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
In some sports it is quite a bit more than slightly. I played hockey my whole life. Been watching the RedWings since I was 5 years old. Watch some old videos from the 70s and 80s of Montreal or Boston who were the best teams. They look so slow and the puck handling and passing and speed is nowhere close to todays games. The game looks in slow motion. Plus every player on every team today has puck skills and that just was not the case back then.
Watching MLB videos from the 70s and 80s I really notice the difference in the size of the players, most looked so skinny compared to todays players. Always thought Lance Parrish the tigers catcher in 1984 was a monster..but now every catcher looks like him.
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Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
I didn't watch the video, but my observation is that coaches have always wanted the most physically gifted athletes, and then they will 'put in what God left out'/coach 'em up, which in turn motivates athletes to deliberately work at getting faster/stronger. A lot of the 'best' athletes I saw during my son's years playing youth sports also ran, and a lot of them ran as much or more than they played their primary sport. When I was a kid, the best athletes just played different sports and didn't spend time running, other than when they were playing whatever sport. To me, I think that yes, kids are faster today than the past, but I think part of that is in the conscious dedication to working at getting faster. In addition to the physical side of it, I think there are also physical techniques to squeeze every last bit of speed out an athlete, but this kind of training/knowledge wasn't as readily available on a large scale before, so we're seeing more kids getting faster/stronger. Will someone ever break Usain Bolt's records? Probably, but it may only be by milliseconds, which while technically is faster, it's probably not going to be as dramatic and we'll probably reach a plateau for human potential for speed in the near future.
-OZ-
Footballguy
at quick glance there are at least 6 other wide receivers from small / similar stature schools drafted ahead of Antonio. You're right that there are technicians. Most of whom were drafted latish. Obviously not Fitz.
jhib
Footballguy
Yeah, it seemed to me the video was just looking into why they are faster. Only one of the factors (technology) actually brought into question if they are even really faster, and that seemed to confirm the answer as yes, even if it's not as great as an improvement as it looks on the surface.
This was most clear during the swimming discussion. He focused on the steep drops in times that were caused by tech improvements, but it was also obvious that the general trend was downward throughout the entire graph.
Plus, so many people are focusing on the top performer in each sport/event, as if that's what most of us mean when we say athletes are getting faster, better, stronger. For me it's more about the average professional/Olympic athlete. So, sure, Jesse Owens would actually be a pretty good match for today's top sprinters if you account for blocks and track surfaces. But the top 20 sprinters of both eras would be dominated by today's athletes.
culdeus
Footballguy
I think this is a difficult metric to quantify. I mean is Phelps faster because he's faster or is it because he has large hands and feet?jhib said:
It isnt really fair to discount his success due to his proportions but to me what he is saying is that coaches and scouts are mainly better at id of what makes someone a specialized athlete.
To me this says maybe there is some improvement but its mostly the manner in which people are selected along with the venue and equipment.
Wrigley
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Wrigley
Footballguy
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