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QB Baker Mayfield, TB (2 Viewers)

JuniorNB said:
Lol. My God, if this is any indication of what Cleveland Brown fans are going to become now that they finally might have a decent team, it's going to be unbearable for everyone else. You guys are nearly New England Patriots fan-obnoxious already. For a .500 team and its quarterback.   You guys are swarming all over someone who said he wouldn't be shocked if either guy won rookie of the Year. You're actually insulted that everyone in the world doesn't think your guy is Tom Brady all the sudden.  Good God, I can only imagine what you guys are going to be like if you ever make the playoffs. Or God forbid, win a playoff game. 
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Cry more

 
JuniorNB said:
While Cowherd definitely runs his mouth just to get clicks, he does hit upon something that's very true. Cleveland fans are so excited to finally have a contender, that they judge Mayfield on a different scale then they would any other quarterback in the league.  Had that been Cousins or Wentz or Prescott completing barely over 50% of his passes with three interceptions, including one on a chance for a last-minute victory, the narrative would be that he's not good under pressure.  Yesterday was the closest Baker Mayfield has ever come to playing in a game that was meaningful in the NFL. Even though they had no shot at the playoffs, it was a playoff atmosphere. Like I said, if any other NFL quarterback would have had those numbers including an interception to clinch it for the other team, the narrative would be 100% different. 
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Really? For a rookie that took over during the season and then went through a coaching change?  If there’s a perspective that might need adjustment, I’d say it’s Cowherd’s (and yours).  But it’s pretty clear Cowherd doesn’t have the fortitude and character to admit he was wrong, and then is juvenile enough to perpetuate it.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Really? For a rookie that took over during the season and then went through a coaching change?  If there’s a perspective that might need adjustment, I’d say it’s Cowherd’s (and yours).  But it’s pretty clear Cowherd doesn’t have the fortitude and character to admit he was wrong, and then is juvenile enough to perpetuate it.
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No comment on my point about any other NFL quarterback with Mayfield's numbers from yesterday in the only almost-important game of his NFL career?  

 
JuniorNB said:
No comment on my point about any other NFL quarterback with Mayfield's numbers from yesterday in the only almost-important game of his NFL career?  
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I made my comment.  Pretty ironic about your statement about being CLE fans being so obnoxious when it’s pretty clear all you are doing here is stirring the pot.  Come up with some constructive material yourself for a change. 

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Cowered dug his heels in during the draft process before Cleveland took him and has chosen to die on that hill but at this point he knows he's lost and isn't nearly as serious as Baker about what was said.

I wouldn't go off the rails on anything Cowered says about Baker going forward.  He's already lost and he knows it so at this point whatever he says is schtick. 
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Yep, he is more complimentary of Mayfield on his show than he was last summer and has referred to him as a QB who should be good for a number of years. 

Bronco Billy said:
Really? For a rookie that took over during the season and then went through a coaching change?  If there’s a perspective that might need adjustment, I’d say it’s Cowherd’s (and yours).  But it’s pretty clear Cowherd doesn’t have the fortitude and character to admit he was wrong, and then is juvenile enough to perpetuate it.
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Cowherd's hang-up is he was way higher than Darnold and probably hates the fact that Mayfield looks better so far.  Still a long way to and things could change - RG3 outplayed Luck their rookie years and looked how that turned out. 

 
JuniorNB said:
No comment on my point about any other NFL quarterback with Mayfield's numbers from yesterday in the only almost-important game of his NFL career?  
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It was one of the best games against the Ravens this year so I could say it's similarly as dumb as most of what you've been writing in here lately but that just feels like piling on at this point. 

 
JuniorNB said:
No comment on my point about any other NFL quarterback with Mayfield's numbers from yesterday in the only almost-important game of his NFL career?  
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who said it was a great game?  how did others do against this defense the last several weeks?  why are you comparing a rookie having this game with veterans having this game?  why am I responding to someone who doesn't understand football?  so many questions.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Really? For a rookie that took over during the season and then went through a coaching change?  If there’s a perspective that might need adjustment, I’d say it’s Cowherd’s (and yours).  But it’s pretty clear Cowherd doesn’t have the fortitude and character to admit he was wrong, and then is juvenile enough to perpetuate it.
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Cowherd may have made a bad call at draft time and refuses to admit he's wrong. Bus, he's like Stephen a Smith. He knows that saying something outrageous will anger people and he does it for ratings and clicks.  I, on the other hand, think Cleveland made a great pick and also think Mayfield is already a very good quarterback and could possibly end up being a great one. I simply made the mistake of saying that I would lean toward Berkley as rookie of the Year. But then again, if the professional football writers also think Barkley is rookie of the Year, Browns fans will think they know more about football than them too. Definitely a mob mentality with Browns fans. And as I said up thread, I understand the excitement.  Good years ahead for that team. Some great young players.

 
Who cares about Cowerd? 

Baldy dropping truth bombs.

CLICK for video of Badly breaking down Baker's game against the Ravens

Brian Baldinger‏Verified account @BaldyNFL

.@Browns @bakermayfield took the Mike Leach “air raid system” and turned it into an Aerial Circus. If you are a #Browns fan or an #NFLFAN how can you wait til August to watch him throw another DIME. It’s not fair. I need Browns Spring Ball. #BaldysBreakdowns

7:31 AM - 31 Dec 2018 from NFL Films

 
Ghost Rider said:
Cowherd's hang-up is he was way higher than Darnold and probably hates the fact that Mayfield looks better so far.  Still a long way to and things could change - RG3 outplayed Luck their rookie years and looked how that turned out. 
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Yep.  Agreed.  I do think that Mayfield has that “it” factor and the talent and mentality to be special.  But that could change

 
JuniorNB said:
Cowherd may have made a bad call at draft time and refuses to admit he's wrong. Bus, he's like Stephen a Smith. He knows that saying something outrageous will anger people and he does it for ratings and clicks.  I, on the other hand, think Cleveland made a great pick and also think Mayfield is already a very good quarterback and could possibly end up being a great one. I simply made the mistake of saying that I would lean toward Berkley as rookie of the Year. But then again, if the professional football writers also think Barkley is rookie of the Year, Browns fans will think they know more about football than them too. Definitely a mob mentality with Browns fans. And as I said up thread, I understand the excitement.  Good years ahead for that team. Some great young players.
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They make themselves sound like fools when they act the way they do.  That they can make substantial money doing so says more about us as a whole.

And thanks for clarifying your position.

 
Soulfly3 said:
exactly.

MVP is the most VALUABLE player to their team....

If the Giants didnt have Barkley, how much worse off would they be? DId Barkley win them many games?

Now, where would the Browns be, without Baker? We saw it, we know.

MVP = Mayfield.
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It’s not the MVP award - it’s “Offensive Rookie of the Year”. I could see either one getting it.

 
JuniorNB said:
I thought maybe saying I wouldn't be upset if either of them won might let people realize where I fall on the issue. I guess saying that I slightly favor Barkley was enough to set off some people. LOL
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You've definitely said alot more than just that and have back peddled more than maybe you realize.  I could care less who wins the award.  The guy I'd rather have 10 times out of 10 is on my team.  That's most important to me and all I care about.  If we could make everyone forget after they answered, I wonder who the Giants would say at this point.  I don't think there's much to wonder about, but I'm just a homer, right?

 
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Bobcat10 said:
You've definitely said alot more than just that and have back peddled more than maybe you realize.  I could care less who wins the award.  The guy I'd rather have 10 times out of 10 is on my team.  That's most important to me and all I care about.  If we could make everyone forget after they answered, I wonder who the Giants would say at this point.  I don't think there's much to wonder about, but I'm just a homer, right?
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I think Mayfield would have been the right pick if he was available when the Giants picked.  I also think Barkley was the right pick over Darnold, Allen, or Rosen. 

 
MAC_32 said:
It was one of the best games against the Ravens this year so I could say it's similarly as dumb as most of what you've been writing in here lately but that just feels like piling on at this point. 
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https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/stats/posvsdef/QB/BAL/teambreakdown/standard

People can draw whatever conclusions they want from the numbers.  It's not all roses...like the INTs for example, but I can live with those this year.  Baltimore made some young AND experienced veteran QBs look silly, that's certain.

 
JuniorNB said:
I think Mayfield would have been the right pick if he was available when the Giants picked.  I also think Barkley was the right pick over Darnold, Allen, or Rosen. 
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:thumbup: ....me too also....although I'd have had a tough time between Darnold and Barkley I guess.

My hypothetical about the NYG was about right now in time....after Barkley has gone for 2000+ and Baker sets the rookie TD record (with both players doing other great things as well).

 
MAC_32 said:
Hiring Pat ruled out Lamar, but I think they should have built around Darnold or Rosen. Sustained success starts with coaching and quarterback play. With one of those two I think they may have one piece then mulligan in 2 years and try to hit the other. They whiffed on both though. Season over before it starts. 
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They'll get plenty of chances to draft a franchise QB to build around.  They only get one chance at a Barkley.

 
Hankmoody said:
They'll get plenty of chances to draft a franchise QB to build around.  They only get one chance at a Barkley.
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While that is true, they have 2 shots max. at a franchise QB because if they miss, they won't give up for 4 years, thinking the guy can turn the corner. See Winston. That's 5 years into Barkley's career. Odds of finding a Mahomes or Mayfield that is a star right out of the gate are slim.

Some stud RBs that never played with a franchise QB: Barry Sanders, OJ, Earl Campbell, Adrian Peterson (1 great year with Favre)

The best thing Fisher ever did was be completely incompetent at the right time. It allowed the RAMS to get Goff AND Gurley.

 
Baker Mayfield is simply the most exciting player in the NFL at the moment.  All the sports radio guys talk about him everyday love or hate.  Made Cleveland relevant again.  Tried to tell the Brown fans when he was drafted #1 overall that he was a gift.  Baker playing QB for the Browns has made them the top destination for a head coach.   So much upside to the Browns now.  

 
Soulfly3 said:
you legitimately believe they'll give it to saquon?

i rule nothing out in life, but this would be complete insanity. a kid BROKE MANNING'S RECORD in 13 games.

He turned around the most volatile franchise perhaps in ALL of sports into a legit playoff contender and now being respected by everyone.
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Barkley just had the best, or at least a top 3 season by a rookie RB ever. 

Browns with an average, competent QB would have won at least 5 games. 

Soulfly3 said:
exactly.

MVP is the most VALUABLE player to their team....

If the Giants didnt have Barkley, how much worse off would they be? DId Barkley win them many games?

Now, where would the Browns be, without Baker? We saw it, we know.

MVP = Mayfield.
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The Giants lost their other best offensive player for 1/4 of the season and won 2 more games. Plus Barkley has to play with Eli, that's a handicap.

Lamar Jackson had a better record as a starter, turned a team below .500 into a playoff team. That's an MVP credential. (Not that I'd vote for him) 

Soulfly3 said:
if it simply just means what it says, then 3725yds / 27tds >>>>>>>>>> 2028yds / 15yds
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Going by that logic, Nick Mullens is better than Nick Chubb.

Soulfly3 said:
OROY is basically the rookie MVP award. you know what I was getting at
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Some will vote that way but the award sure sounds a lot more like the offensive player (in their guest season) of the year.

 
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-OZ- said:
The Giants lost their other best offensive player for 1/4 of the season and won 2 more games. Plus Barkley has to play with Eli, that's a handicap.
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I assume you're talking about Odell?

The same Odell who played... wait for it... 4 games total last season?

So, the NYG won 2 more games with Odell playing 8 more games this season, and a full of season of a historic Saquon?

 
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Soulfly3 said:
I assume you're talking about Odell?

The same Odell who played... wait for it... 4 games total last season?

So, the NYG won 2 more games with Odell playing 8 more games this season, and a full of season of a historic Saquon?
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Fair enough. 

He still had one of the best rookie seasons ever. Played for a worse team than Cleveland (words rarely written). Nobody argues whether RB is more valuable than QB. If value is all the award was about, it would always go to a QB if he had a decent season. 

But Barkley is a better RB than Mayfield is a QB. At least during their rookie season.

 
I absolutely love saquon.

I took him at 4 in my startup keeper league, without a shred of hesitation. I'll never sell him. 

But I'm looking at who came in and tore things up and made the biggest difference for his team (again, for me, the OROY award is a rookie MVP award, and I do believe it's voted as such)

 
-OZ- said:
Fair enough. 

He still had one of the best rookie seasons ever. Played for a worse team than Cleveland (words rarely written).
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Had Mayfield not been put in the starting role, Cleveland would have very likely been worse than NY. I believe that is the entire point of Soulfly's argument.

 
-OZ- said:
Fair enough. 

He still had one of the best rookie seasons ever. Played for a worse team than Cleveland (words rarely written). Nobody argues whether RB is more valuable than QB. If value is all the award was about, it would always go to a QB if he had a decent season. 

But Barkley is a better RB than Mayfield is a QB. At least during their rookie season.
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People have been arguing that a rb is more valuable than a qb since about this time last year with no end in sight. 

 
DallasDMac said:
Had Mayfield not been put in the starting role, Cleveland would have very likely been worse than NY. I believe that is the entire point of Soulfly's argument.
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We'll agree to disagree. 

Or more to the point, the 21 other starters (not counting special teams) in Cleveland are better than the other 21 starters in NY.

MAC_32 said:
People have been arguing that a rb is more valuable than a qb since about this time last year with no end in sight. 
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No, they've been arguing that a potentially all time great RB is more valuable than a risky QB with mixed expectations. 

I sure don't remember anyone suggesting the position is more valuable.

 
"a risky QB with mixed expectations"

Is that how you view Baker, after a truly historic, record setting season (in only 12-13 games played, was it?)

 
MAC_32 said:
People have been arguing that a rb is more valuable than a qb since about this time last year with no end in sight. 
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Yep.  That’s why you see teams reaching for RBs with picks 1.01-1.06 in the NFL draft while very talented QBs slip into the 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes even lower rounds.

 
JuniorNB said:
Cowherd may have made a bad call at draft time and refuses to admit he's wrong. 
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Also, Mayfield looked him in the eye like a man and called BS on a stupid argument and Cowherd couldn't run far or fast enough to get away.  I'm sure Cowherd will never forget.

 
It won't happen but I'd be in favor of splitting the award. While we're at it, include Nelson and Jackson.

 
-OZ- said:
No, they've been arguing that a potentially all time great RB is more valuable than a risky QB with mixed expectations. 

I sure don't remember anyone suggesting the position is more valuable.
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Every qb carries risk. If you dont have the stones to take that risk then you shouldn't be in that chair. As a result the man in the giants chair has his choice of bigger risks this year vs last year. Now with pressure to win because an all time great rb still leads to double digit losses if you dont bave a qb.

 
Soulfly3 said:
"a risky QB with mixed expectations"

Is that how you view Baker, after a truly historic, record setting season (in only 12-13 games played, was it?)
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In referring to the argument about the draft last year, as Mac mentioned the argument starting then

Nobody is saying they would draft Barkley ahead of Baker today.

 
-OZ- said:
This time last year? Yes.
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Hard to argue that this wasn't the sentiment about Mayfield.

But for college analysts like myself, I was begging for the Browns to take Mayfield at 1 since Xmas... on this very forum. 

I feel like the critical ones were the ones that had rarely, if ever watched him play, and used groupthink

 
-OZ- said:
In referring to the argument about the draft last year, as Mac mentioned the argument starting then

Nobody is saying they would draft Barkley ahead of Baker today.
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It's been an awful argument since that time. I thought the pick Barkley at 1 then whichever qb falls at 4 was peak dumb until the idea of picking a qb at both 1 and 4 was floated out there. Then I just needed to sign off football for a few weeks.

It wasnt hard - use your resources to vet the qb then figure the rest out later. This is why. QBs turn franchises around. RBs dont. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
Hard to argue that this wasn't the sentiment about Mayfield.

But for college analysts like myself, I was begging for the Browns to take Mayfield at 1 since Xmas... on this very forum. 

I feel like the critical ones were the ones that had rarely, if ever watched him play, and used groupthink
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The Johnny comps were and still are side splittingly hilarious. 

 
-OZ- said:
This time last year? Yes.
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We’re going to have to agree to disagree.  Mayfield had college performance numbers leapt off the page.  They were transcendent and way ahead of not only this year’s draft group but every QB drafted since Luck.  There were some who got hung up on his height or a few behavioral issues by a college kid, but we saw how well thought out those arguments were.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Hard to argue that this wasn't the sentiment about Mayfield.

But for college analysts like myself, I was begging for the Browns to take Mayfield at 1 since Xmas... on this very forum. 

I feel like the critical ones were the ones that had rarely, if ever watched him play, and used groupthink
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FWIW I thought Mayfield had a good chance to be an average QB and a smaller chance to be really good, with a fair chance of being a bust.

I thought Barkley had almost a 90% chance of being a great rb.

 
Last night, while extremely under the influence of plants, I watched a Twitter comp of Mayfield's best throws...

My god. Absolutely sensational stuff in there. He obviously has TONS of room for improvement, and still made some rookie mistakes.

But he made some throws that prime Brees and Brady made. And not just ocne or twice.

 
Hopefully I said it in this thread, because I know I said it somewhere before the season... he's Brett Favre without the INTs.  He's going to be truly great.

They'll eventually make a 30-for-30 on the day he and Pat Mahomes hooked up for 1400 yards passing in college.

 
Soulfly3 said:
he's unreal. If you heard a stat about him, odds are it's true
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Haven’t you ruined enough careers.

most people are cheering for the Browns right now, but you kind of make me wish they are terrible again.

 
voiceofunreason said:
Haven’t you ruined enough careers.

most people are cheering for the Browns right now, but you kind of make me wish they are terrible again.
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Lol. He's unbearable. Middle-of-the-pack ranked quarterback leads team to a .500 record and this guy has him as the best ever.  I guess he's just continuing his stick with Josh Gordon. He thinks he's the board's entertainer now. 

 
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