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QB Baker Mayfield, TB (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter OU#1
- Start date
I'd still feel very comfortable considering Mayfield a good QB, he has a seemingly terrible coach(nothing new for the Browns) and his o-line is trash. I'm not sure how many QB's would be doing well in this situation.
From an NFL perspective, there aren't 15 QB's I'd rather have going forward. Maybe some people jumped the gun, expecting a Mahomes-like breakout, but most young QB's have growing pains, and are somewhat dependent on supporting cast.
From an NFL perspective, there aren't 15 QB's I'd rather have going forward. Maybe some people jumped the gun, expecting a Mahomes-like breakout, but most young QB's have growing pains, and are somewhat dependent on supporting cast.
I have a bit of a different take:
he looks absolutely abysmal. There’s no getting around that. However, I don’t think it’s all his fault. I think kit he’s is in way over his head and he is not at all adjusting his play calling to accommodate baker playing behind the piss poor o line he plays He should be calling faster plays, shorter passing game, focusing on getting the ball out of bakers hands quickly. This is what Nagy did with Trubisky starting week 3 and it worked. Kitchens needs to give up play calling to monken. I don’t know if monken will realize this as he loves the deep pass, but I have more faith that monken will correctly analyze this than kitchens at this point. i believe the change is coming soon. Ownership is not going to have a lot of patience with ego from kitchens who has practically zero resume as a head coach in the NFL.
anyway, this is absolute rock bottom for Baker. He was just dropped in my redraft league. His schedule is rough for the next 5 or so weeks. But it gets very good going into the playoffs. I am going to bet that things get better for Baker as the season goes. He is too talented, has great weapons, and they will get it figured out.
he looks absolutely abysmal. There’s no getting around that. However, I don’t think it’s all his fault. I think kit he’s is in way over his head and he is not at all adjusting his play calling to accommodate baker playing behind the piss poor o line he plays He should be calling faster plays, shorter passing game, focusing on getting the ball out of bakers hands quickly. This is what Nagy did with Trubisky starting week 3 and it worked. Kitchens needs to give up play calling to monken. I don’t know if monken will realize this as he loves the deep pass, but I have more faith that monken will correctly analyze this than kitchens at this point. i believe the change is coming soon. Ownership is not going to have a lot of patience with ego from kitchens who has practically zero resume as a head coach in the NFL.
anyway, this is absolute rock bottom for Baker. He was just dropped in my redraft league. His schedule is rough for the next 5 or so weeks. But it gets very good going into the playoffs. I am going to bet that things get better for Baker as the season goes. He is too talented, has great weapons, and they will get it figured out.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
I'm definitely trying to buy in dynasty. Should I even try? Anyone thinking of panic selling?
wormburner
Footballguy
I think Baker will be the Amy Shumer of the NFL. Give him a little time.
Nowhere near big enough of a unit to do that.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
Booger McFarland hinted on the show last night that Mayfield is known around the NFL as a one-read QB. Mayfield is childish, pouts too much on losses, too high on wins, production on the field just sucks. I think he's headed for the door sooner rather than later. his cockiness and emotions get in his way too much. at some point, OBJ is going to turn on him. just wait for it. this team is about to collapse in a big way. but it's the Browns, why would anyone have expected anything different. add him to the list of the 27 other QBs they've had since 1990. and I want to root for the brownies, but they just cant get over the hump
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I havent seen it mentioned lately that Mayfield went to bat to get Kitchens hired. he is his hand picked coach.
they deserve each other
they deserve each other
I'm leaning towards dropping him in in our modified dynasty league (we get to keep the player 2 rounds further up the draft every year...so i drafted mayfield in the 17th last year and kept him as my 15th round pick this year, next year will be 13th)
I came into the season with 3 keeper qbs in mayfield, goff and rosen and thought i was laughing
I came into the season with 3 keeper qbs in mayfield, goff and rosen and thought i was laughing
Statorama
gangster
Including me, there's only two owners in our league that still believe. Unfortunately the other is the guy that currently owns him.
He's not interested in selling unless "blown away".
Good luck with that.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
The guy is a total moron. He's in the early stages of his 2nd season and way ahead of 99% of NFL QBs at that stage. He's one read now because he doesn't have time for a 2nd read with the putrid OL. Why is this guy even employed by a network?
amnesiac
beer is good
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I’m sure lack of experience is the biggest factor and I think Baker will be fine eventually, but I agree with Booger here. Even when Mayfield does get time he seems locked on his first read. Maybe our expectations were too high, but it’s fair to say he’s been disappointing.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
He was dropped in my 12 team short bench league where surprisingly 21 QB's are rostered. I need a QB for when mine is on BYE and I'm just not seeing Baker as an option worth trying to claim. Rather just stream.
Yikes.
Yikes.
Make no mistake- Mayfield is overrated.
But- that does present a buying opportunity. He's worth kicking the tires on. Still see him as a top 14 QB option. The weapons are there and I do think he does have a better future than what he has shown this year. People get overly emotional when players they ranked highly under perform, so if you believe, this is the right time to buy.
MAC_32
Footballguy
...then aimlessly drifting right seemingly just hoping he'll see something down field and instead running into the pressure that wasn't there in the first place.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Good stuff here.
Those that keep latching onto the bad OL narrative need to read these articles. Baker's biggest enemy right now are not the 5 dudes in front of him, those attempting to catch his passes, or designing the offense. It's himself. Fix yourself and the rest of the chips will fall into place.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Booger is stealing Rex Ryan's week old take. Rex was preaching that on the ESPN sunday morning pre game show after he and Baker had their kerfuffle. If there are two guys I want to rely on for QB analysis and high quality breakdown, it is Booger and Rex.
Stafford is still on our wire...he currently has 70 pts more than mayfield in our leage
The problem is that unless a qb is top 5 they are all pretty mixed together...stafford being on our waiver wire for example. Not only does Mayfield flat out suck, he doesn't look to me like he is going to be a top 5 qb ever. If that's the case, let him be drafted in the 14th round every year like all the other middle of the rd qbs
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yes, which is why he's droppable in redraft. Dynasty is different. At least in the context that most mean when they say dynasty. And context is of the utmost importance - i.e. Stafford is not available in 9_% of dynasty leagues.
Really? What about him is way ahead of 99% of qbs. He's about 3000% behind Minshew for crying out loud. Everything about his stats are awful this year.
Yea, i agree which is why i posted my context
Great qbs don't often look like a complete garbage dump like Mayfield. I think he may work out but he'll be average at best
This notion that Mayfield "sucks" reflects the typical fan reaction- the QB has always gotten way too much credit and way too much blame. There haven't been many great NFL QBs who didn't have at least a good offensive line. Mayfield had arguably the greatest rookie season any QB has ever had- NFL rookie record 27 TDs with only 14 Interceptions (fantastic ratio for a rookie), 63.8 completion pct., 3725 yards, all in only 13 games. He didn't suddenly lose all that talent and potential for something even better. If he had started all season, he would have shattered all NFL rookie records.
The biggest difference between last season and this for Mayfield is his laughable left tackle- all-time bust Greg Robinson. It is absolutely criminal that any organization would entrust their franchise QB's blind side to such a complete flop. The rest of the line is hardly better. You put Mahomes or any other QB behind this line, and see how they do. For one, Mahomes wouldn't be able to throw any of his patented bombs, because Mayfield never has more than 2 seconds or so to throw. No time for deep patterns.
It wasn't just Mayfied who was overrated going into this season. The Browns were. The media acted as if OBJ would be some kind of savior. They also discounted what an OBJ-type personality brings to the locker room. OBJ can't do much if that putrid offensive line doesn't give him enough time to run any kind of decent pass routes. Yes, the play calling has been abysmal. They aren't giving Mayfield any help- screen passes, quick patterns, etc. And someone must be ordering him not to run. Many times, he could have taken off quickly once he sensed the pressure, and mitigated the pass rush. He does look like he bulked up, which is not a good idea for a QB, which may be slowing him down. But even Philip Rivers scrambles more than Mayfield does.
The Browns' defense is also overrated. They looked at least as bad as the offense against the 49ers. I'm scared that if they don't upgrade that line, and change the play calling, Mayfield could become as damaged as another potentially great QB was- David Carr. Mayfield proved, in his rookie season, that he can play at the highest level in this league. His offensive line-especially Robinson-hasn't, and never will. Neither has his coach.
The biggest difference between last season and this for Mayfield is his laughable left tackle- all-time bust Greg Robinson. It is absolutely criminal that any organization would entrust their franchise QB's blind side to such a complete flop. The rest of the line is hardly better. You put Mahomes or any other QB behind this line, and see how they do. For one, Mahomes wouldn't be able to throw any of his patented bombs, because Mayfield never has more than 2 seconds or so to throw. No time for deep patterns.
It wasn't just Mayfied who was overrated going into this season. The Browns were. The media acted as if OBJ would be some kind of savior. They also discounted what an OBJ-type personality brings to the locker room. OBJ can't do much if that putrid offensive line doesn't give him enough time to run any kind of decent pass routes. Yes, the play calling has been abysmal. They aren't giving Mayfield any help- screen passes, quick patterns, etc. And someone must be ordering him not to run. Many times, he could have taken off quickly once he sensed the pressure, and mitigated the pass rush. He does look like he bulked up, which is not a good idea for a QB, which may be slowing him down. But even Philip Rivers scrambles more than Mayfield does.
The Browns' defense is also overrated. They looked at least as bad as the offense against the 49ers. I'm scared that if they don't upgrade that line, and change the play calling, Mayfield could become as damaged as another potentially great QB was- David Carr. Mayfield proved, in his rookie season, that he can play at the highest level in this league. His offensive line-especially Robinson-hasn't, and never will. Neither has his coach.
MAC_32
Footballguy
So the biggest difference between 2019 and 2018 is he has...the same left tackle he had last year.
amnesiac
beer is good
i was thinking the same thing.So the biggest difference between 2019 and 2018 is he has...the same left tackle he had last year.
to be fair, i think we’ve all seen how inconsistent he can be.
Good point. Should have noted that Robinson split time last year with Desmond Harrison, an equally bad (but not as highly touted, obviously) left tackle. Shouldn't have focused on one person. The main problems are the offensive line, Mayfield's odd reluctance to run, and the lame play calling, in that order.
The fact remains, however, that Mayfield put up historically great rookie numbers last season, on a roster with seemingly less talent. The only area on the team that wasn't upgraded during the off season was that putrid offensive line.
The fact remains, however, that Mayfield put up historically great rookie numbers last season, on a roster with seemingly less talent. The only area on the team that wasn't upgraded during the off season was that putrid offensive line.
MAC_32
Footballguy
4/5 of the offensive line is literally the exact same vs. last year. Kush has been a step down from Zeitler, but that downgrade still doesn't explain what's wrong with the offense. The bad OL that seemingly everyone parrots quite simply is not rooted in fact. The narrative isn't going to die because facts don't matter in 2019, but no matter how many people say the OL is the problem they're still wrong.
rockaction
Footballguy
I can't stand watching him do that. You think he's gonna buy time and make a play, but it's either a sack/fumble or a lofted ball out of bounds at an angle.
Drives me nuts.
rockaction
Footballguy
I have not for the life of me as a casual backer begun to understand the narrative of the CLE O-line. Perhaps its weakness is being exposed now that they're throwing every ball fifteen yards down the field, but one would think that it's very similar to last year, minus Zeitler. Then again, the Giants' O-line has been grading out as good, so maybe a rising Zeitler lifts all boats or something like that.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Robinson was ejected from game 1 and his replacement got beaten like a drum.
Donald was disruptive game 3. But it isn't because Kush and the rest of the interior OL sucks. It's because Donald is disruptive. Regardless of who is standing between him and the opposing quarterback. And even he was neutralized after some early adjustments.
Robinson couldn't block Bosa, but it didn't become a problem until the Browns were down 3 scores. So Bosa could just pin his ears back and attack. We didn't get to that point because of Robinson. We got to that point for a variety of other reasons.
---
That's the OL story. They've not been good, but they're also not the problem. And when they have been a problem there are reasonable expectations for it. Don't kick your opponent in the face, fall behind 3 scores against a well coached team with a ferocious front 4, and stay away from the best DT in the game.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I think Mayfield is a potentially great QB that is playing poorly for a number of reasons. However there have been other players that show flashes early in their careers and never repeat it. I am not saying Mayfield will fall into that category, in fact I think that he won't, but just because he had good rookie season doesn't guarantee anything. Also "the historically great" passing numbers are a bit skewed by the NFL being such a passing league now.
Bottom line is this: Mayfield could become one of the best QBs in the NFL but right now he isn't playing well and it isn't just because of his o-line.
Starting this week with near zero confidence. When the OL is getting abused like it has, it really doesn't matter if 4 of 5 are the same guys. it just means last year they were better than this year. Yeah the play calling blows but still, if you have less than 2 seconds to release the ball, you are not going to succeed. The OC has to stop the pas rush and you do that by dumping passes the the RB quickly. Seems they can't figure that out. PIT did it to CIN and CIN couldn't figure out they should have been doing the same. Coaching in the NFL is at like a 3rd grade level for the most part.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Why - in that format he'd need to burn a 13th round pick next year to keep him. At this pace do we really think that's not around the range he'd be drafted anyway?
amnesiac
beer is good
this is a much more level headed analysis, thank you.
i’m still not writing him off for the rest of the year though.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Well, if you like the "cocky/brash/moxie" that he brings to the table... that also creates a lightning rod for controversy. Baker carries himself like this grizzled veteran who has earned much respect and belongs in the conversation of Brady/Roger/Mahomes. So of course he's going to take his lumps when his mouth constantly writes checks that his on-field play can't cash.
If he was quiet, humble, non-combative, then he would get the "learning on the fly" benefit that others in his age class get. That's "not Baker" though. He wants to be an ### then he needs to take it like one... along with his supporters. That's just how it is.
In the words of George Carlin, "If you want to play the dozens, then the dozens is the game, but the way I ###### your mother is a god ###### shame"
If he was quiet, humble, non-combative, then he would get the "learning on the fly" benefit that others in his age class get. That's "not Baker" though. He wants to be an ### then he needs to take it like one... along with his supporters. That's just how it is.
In the words of George Carlin, "If you want to play the dozens, then the dozens is the game, but the way I ###### your mother is a god ###### shame"
MAC_32
Footballguy
It's 2019 and facts still don't matter.
For anyone that isn't just looking to further push their already developed narrative I thought this was a good read.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Ryan Clark did a really good breakdown on NFL a few weeks ago of how poor Baker has been even when he's had time.
Also didn't they mention on one of the telecasts that Baker's stats been like historically horrendous on plays where he holds the ball more than 3 seconds (which is the opposite of how it works for most QBs)?
Also didn't they mention on one of the telecasts that Baker's stats been like historically horrendous on plays where he holds the ball more than 3 seconds (which is the opposite of how it works for most QBs)?
Dizzy
Footballguy
This is what I was alluding to... he's young... he's got to fight through things like these tendencies. My wife doesn't even watch football and she knows through the magic of television that he's "first read only, and drifts to the right every time"... assumption is they will work on that and over time it will be a thing of the past. And if he talks in the media like Daniel Jones (for example) he gets handled with kid gloves, but the young/cocky/don't give a crap guy... people will line up to kick him while he's down.
The hype/expectations were simply too high.
Todem
Footballguy
I was a Mayfield fan last season when he was taken 1st overall. He has moxie, lot's of confidence and has been a winner. I think he looked really promising last season. He is really done a 180 and I am just giving an observational opinion here. Too much....too fast. Endorsements, commercials, hype, huge expectations.
It is all weighing down on him and he is having a classic Sophomore slump. I think he is hitting rock bottom right about now after that last outing. He simply needs to refocus his energies to simply playing football and forget all the other crap around him right now. It's time to get back to work. If he is as driven as I think he is....he will rebound soon enough and become a very capable starting QB in this league. It really can't get any worse than last weeks game.
Strong hold in dynasty.This will take the remainder of this season to work out. I would say he is a great buy low in dynasty leagues.
It is all weighing down on him and he is having a classic Sophomore slump. I think he is hitting rock bottom right about now after that last outing. He simply needs to refocus his energies to simply playing football and forget all the other crap around him right now. It's time to get back to work. If he is as driven as I think he is....he will rebound soon enough and become a very capable starting QB in this league. It really can't get any worse than last weeks game.
Strong hold in dynasty.This will take the remainder of this season to work out. I would say he is a great buy low in dynasty leagues.
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Dizzy
Footballguy
Curious if the brash/cocky/moxie/whatever demeanor can actually translate into a top tier QB in the NFL?
Mike Greenberg pointed this out on Tuesday... it has not seemed to work for anyone else at the position.
List of brash/cocky/moxified/successful NFL QB's:
-1) Philip Rivers
-2) TBD
Mike Greenberg pointed this out on Tuesday... it has not seemed to work for anyone else at the position.
List of brash/cocky/moxified/successful NFL QB's:
-1) Philip Rivers
-2) TBD
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