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Sam Darnold - Meow, he's a Panther.


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5 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Crossing Carolina off the list of smart teams and adding them to the list of dumb teams. 

Yeah, I was excited about the direction of the franchise. This move will most likely define the current regime. I am not optimistic but Darnold was Gase’d so I will reserve judgment until we see it play out.

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Carolina has been searching for a new QB since the season ended and I applaud them giving Sam Darnold a trial. He has not done well, everyone agrees, but he has not had any help. I think his pedigree with Joe Brady and Head Coach Rhule with nice offensive weapons is a good plan, both for Carolina and for Darnold. I am buying Darnold as a cheap option in 2021.

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1 minute ago, Leroy Hoard said:

As someone more interested in the NFL draft aspect of this, it solidifies one more QB going early. Pushes back any other position one spot.

Why does it solidify one more QB going early? As I recently posted, it would make Darnold a pointless acquisition for CAR to draft another QB given they already have Darnold and Bridgewater.

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1 minute ago, JoeSteeler said:

does he have an "affordable" contract?

$17-18M for 2021, $20-21M in 2022.

If you are desperate and don't have what you think is serviceable he might be "affordable".

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4 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Besides the Bridgewater cap situation, they would have a similar problem if (once?) they find out that Darnold is not the answer either. His fifth year option already was picked up, meaning in 2022 he is guaranteed $18.8M. The only way they could avoid that would be to trade Darnold, but if he struck out again in 2021, I'm guessing another team wouldn't love having to eat $18.8M to acquire him.

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Carolina also built itself a good out with Bridgewater after two years. Moving on from him ahead of the 2022 season would cost them only $5 million in dead money with a cap savings of $21 million, or equal to Bridgewater's average annual salary.

You're right that it would be a similar situation if Darnold flames out - But he would cost about $3m than TB will next year. But obviously they don't expect him to fail. 

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5 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

does he have an "affordable" contract?

Teddy would carry a $21M cap hit for the 2021 season to a new team if traded. CAR would have to eat a $5M cap charge. NE has $12M in cap space (but still has to eat money from Patrick Chung retiring and sign their rookies). So him ending up in NE would be a challenge unless his deal was redone prior to the trade.

Edited by Anarchy99
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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Why does it solidify one more QB going early? As I recently posted, it would make Darnold a pointless acquisition for CAR to draft another QB given they already have Darnold and Bridgewater.

I think he means it solidifies a QB at #2. That was pretty well set in stone before, but you can remove the "pretty well" now.

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3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Why does it solidify one more QB going early? As I recently posted, it would make Darnold a pointless acquisition for CAR to draft another QB given they already have Darnold and Bridgewater.

By early I mean top 3. 

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Teddy would carry a $21M cap hit for the 2021 season to a new team if traded. CAR would have to eat a $5M cap charge. NE has $12M in cap space (but still has to eat money from Patrick Chung retiring and sign their rookies). So him ending up in NE would be a challenge unless his deal was redone prior to the trade.

Broncos have $28m in space and George Paton was in Minnesota when Teddy was there. That'd be intriguing. 

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12 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Why does it solidify one more QB going early? As I recently posted, it would make Darnold a pointless acquisition for CAR to draft another QB given they already have Darnold and Bridgewater.

Makes it more likely Carolina is not trading down. 

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Just now, Blackbear said:

Makes it more likely Carolina is not trading down. 

I think the opposite. IMO, they are now less like to draft a QB if one is available there. That makes them more likely to trade down if someone hit them with a big offer for their pick.

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

I think the opposite. IMO, they are now less like to draft a QB if one is available there. That makes them more likely to trade down if someone hit them with a big offer for their pick.

If a QB falls to them and they don't draft him they are even dumber than I thought. 

Banking on a retread who has shown nothing in 3 years is a terrible plan. 

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Just now, kittenmittens said:

If a QB falls to them and they don't draft him they are even dumber than I thought. 

Banking on a retread who has shown nothing in 3 years is a terrible plan. 

I tend to agree but I think it's a moot point. Four QBs are going to go ahead of Carolina's pick. Which is why I think they made this move.

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2 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Atlanta has one less trading partner for pick #4. And Denver might have a choice of either Lance or Jones at #9. NE could take the QB left behind at #15.

That is assuming no one else is willing to trade up. CHI and WFT are still in play, and to a lesser extent teams like PIT or NOS. I think it will depend who falls and how far. I still doubt anyone lands in the Patriots lap without them having to move up.

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

I tend to agree but I think it's a moot point. Four QBs are going to go ahead of Carolina's pick. Which is why I think they made this move.

Agreed, but there are 5 that they should take though I think. 

If they are not stupid, they assume all 5 will be gone by pick 8 and they can't trade up cheaply enough. 

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4 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I think the opposite. IMO, they are now less like to draft a QB if one is available there. That makes them more likely to trade down if someone hit them with a big offer for their pick.

Sorry I mean trade up I guess. I mean trade early, less likely to trade earlier in the draft. 

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2 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

If a QB falls to them and they don't draft him they are even dumber than I thought. 

Banking on a retread who has shown nothing in 3 years is a terrible plan. 

As I mentioned twice already . . . then why bother trading for Darnold NOW? wait until after the draft and see who you can get in the draft. They could also then see which displaced QBs would be available besides Darnold. And of course they could still have traded for Darnold. Why on earth would they trade for Darnold AND guarantee him almost $19M for next year?

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1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

As I mentioned twice already . . . then why bother trading for Darnold NOW? wait until after the draft and see who you can get in the draft. They could also then see which displaced QBs would be available besides Darnold. And of course they could still have traded for Darnold. Why on earth would they trade for Darnold AND guarantee him almost $19M for next year?

Agreed.  So, so dumb. 

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3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

As I mentioned twice already . . . then why bother trading for Darnold NOW? wait until after the draft and see who you can get in the draft. They could also then see which displaced QBs would be available besides Darnold. And of course they could still have traded for Darnold. Why on earth would they trade for Darnold AND guarantee him almost $19M for next year?

Because then Darnold might not be available. 

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3 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Should have just signed Josh Rosen 😆

No, he managed to show nothing and not have to be tied to Gase. I’m certainly not writing off a guy that was drafted into the worst ran organization and possessed the least talent on the offensive side of the ball in the entire league. Breshad Perriman was his number 1 WR last year and Frank Gore was his starting running back for God’s sake. 

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31 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

As someone more interested in the NFL draft aspect of this, it solidifies one more QB going early. Pushes back any other position one spot.

It may mean Atlanta wanted to much for a trade to #4 or Atlanta is going to take a QB.  I understand the whole restructure for Matt Ryan but don't you pay the 4th slotted rookie the same regardless or is it slotted by position of the player selected? I always thought it is by the number slot. My point being if Atlanta sticks at #4 why would they not take a QB? You have to pay the #4 slot the same regardless. And you hope to not be picking #4 again anytime soon.  I think this points to Atlanta taking a QB or they wanted way to much to move back. There is always Denver I suppose.

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3 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

This is falling Pats way on trading with Atlanta at #4. 

I would not expect NE to do a pick swap and then trade two additional firsts and a third like SF did with the Jets. I have been following what the NE beat guys have been saying, and they seem to feel the most NE would likely offer to move up is a first round pick swap and a 2nd and a 3rd. Or a first round pick swap and a future first. Basically, way less than the Niners gave up.

But again, I think a lot will depend on which guys drop and how far. I don't think they would go from 15 to 4 to take Lance or Jones, but they might for Fields. IMO, with each spot that a QB drops, the more likely a team will leap frog past NE to take him.

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I would not expect NE to do a pick swap and then trade two additional firsts and a third like SF did with the Jets. I have been following what the NE beat guys have been saying, and they seem to feel the most NE would likely offer to move up is a first round pick swap and a 2nd and a 3rd. Or a first round pick swap and a future first. Basically, way less than the Niners gave up.

But again, I think a lot will depend on which guys drop and how far. I don't think they would go from 15 to 4 to take Lance or Jones, but they might for Fields. IMO, with each spot that a QB drops, the more likely a team will leap frog past NE to take him.

See I thought Carolina would be competition to move up to take QB. And feared Pats trading at bargain bin for Darnold. Both are less likely now. So I view this as a better position for Pats now. Yes, I’m thinking of trading down to 4 for Lance or Fields. 

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1 minute ago, osubuckeyeman said:

It may mean Atlanta wanted to much for a trade to #4 or Atlanta is going to take a QB.  I understand the whole restructure for Matt Ryan but don't you pay the 4th slotted rookie the same regardless or is it slotted by position of the player selected? I always thought it is by the number slot. My point being if Atlanta sticks at #4 why would they not take a QB? You have to pay the #4 slot the same regardless. And you hope to not be picking #4 again anytime soon.  I think this points to Atlanta taking a QB or they wanted way to much to move back. There is always Denver I suppose.

Multiple places today have indicated that ATL is open to trade down and is shopping their pick. They are so in bed with Matt Ryan that it would be really difficult to get off the $65M cap hit they will have to take on him across the next three years. It would be bad business for them to take a QB at 4. They would either be wasting the benefit of a low dollar QB for multiple years, have the biggest contract on the team sitting for years, or eating a GIGANTIC cap hit by getting rid of Ryan.

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6 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

It may mean Atlanta wanted to much for a trade to #4 or Atlanta is going to take a QB.  I understand the whole restructure for Matt Ryan but don't you pay the 4th slotted rookie the same regardless or is it slotted by position of the player selected? I always thought it is by the number slot. My point being if Atlanta sticks at #4 why would they not take a QB? You have to pay the #4 slot the same regardless. And you hope to not be picking #4 again anytime soon.  I think this points to Atlanta taking a QB or they wanted way to much to move back. There is always Denver I suppose.

Don’t overlook that division rivals don’t trade often. You win division you usually make playoffs. So...

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Just now, Blackbear said:

See I thought Carolina would be competition to move up to take QB. And feared Pats trading at bargain bin for Darnold. Both are less likely now. So I view this as a better position for Pats now. Yes, I’m thinking of trading down to 4 for Lance or Fields. 

I think Lance has bust written all over him. Youngest guy available, hasn't played in a year, only 17 starts, played in a cupcake league. As others have mentioned, more of a runner than a passer.

IMO, CAR acquiring Darnold doesn't move the needle at all for NE. It just means the Panthers are more likely to move their pick to a team that DOES need a QB.

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36 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Maybe it's just neutral since they are stuck with Teddy too and he will beat out Darnold anyhow. 

He already beat out Darnold once, it was just that Darnold had gone number three to the Jets that year.

Hoo baby. This is fire-in-the-hole type stuff right here today.

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

He already beat out Darnold once, it was just that Darnold had gone number three to the Jets that year.

Hoo baby. This is fire-in-the-hole type stuff right here today.

Yep. Wilson to Jets. 

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20 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Multiple places today have indicated that ATL is open to trade down and is shopping their pick. They are so in bed with Matt Ryan that it would be really difficult to get off the $65M cap hit they will have to take on him across the next three years. It would be bad business for them to take a QB at 4. They would either be wasting the benefit of a low dollar QB for multiple years, have the biggest contract on the team sitting for years, or eating a GIGANTIC cap hit by getting rid of Ryan.

Atlanta had really no choice but restructure his contract to get under the cap. It would not change my thinking if you have to pay the rookie #4 pick the same anyway. So now you have 2 QB's on the roster for a lot of money. It's not ideal but when are you going to get to #4 again? If you believe in Lance or Fields that strongly then you make the pick. I get your point  though and it makes sense. New coach and new GM. I just can't see not taking a shot if you like one of those two. There is a lot of talent on the board though at that point though outside the Qb's. 

Good move for Sam though and Robby Anderson has a history with Sam surely that can not be bad for the Panthers. How he fits in the Carolina offense will be interesting. Joe Brady must have been on board with Sam so they have a plan for him.

 

Edited by osubuckeyeman
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I just am not so sure how much of an upgrade Sam is than Teddy.  Could there be more to this?  Is something else in play? Moving Teddy? Getting Darnold as a place holder for another move?  It just seems odd.  Unless they just think Sam is such a better player than Teddy. Or they just think Sam fits what they want to do much better than Teddy.

Edited by osubuckeyeman
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Just now, osubuckeyeman said:

I just am not so sure how much of an upgrade Sam is than Teddy.  Could there be more to this?  Is something else in play? Moving Teddy? Getting Darnold as a place holder for another move?  It just seems odd.  Unless they just think Sam is such a better player than Sam. Or they just think Sam fits what they want to do much better than Teddy.

I’d guess Carolina Thinks they won’t get a better arm talent than Darnold. Atlanta probably refused trade in division. Teddy has big contract. They want reset at QB. 

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2 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

I just am not so sure how much of an upgrade Sam is than Teddy.  Could there be more to this?  Is something else in play? Moving Teddy? Getting Darnold as a place holder for another move?  It just seems odd.  Unless they just think Sam is such a better player than Sam. Or they just think Sam fits what they want to do much better than Teddy.

Sam is better than Sam.

In all seriousness, I think Sam is better than Teddy.  They're probably hoping Sam is like Tanny and just sucked under Gase with zero weapons, and can be good with better coaching/weapons.

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1 minute ago, styleride85 said:

Sam is better than Sam.

In all seriousness, I think Sam is better than Teddy.  They're probably hoping Sam is like Tanny and just sucked under Gase with zero weapons, and can be good with better coaching/weapons.

Thanks. I fixed it.

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Anyone who saw Bridgewater thus year knows he had a very un-Bridgewater year. Surprisingly inefficient; you didn't see the Teddy you saw as a Saint at all. There are times he legit held the offense back with mistakes/odd misses (Vikings game comes to mind) and I think Carolina wants to take a shot with a guy who has more upside.

 

Teddy hit his ceiling and couldn't really push through in 2020; to be fair he didn't have a camp and lost his top RB early. However, the way Mike Davis played that team should have been better.

Edited by The Frankman
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11 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

I’m not a cap guy, but cutting Bridgewater looks to save 17 million on the cap. Is this true?

Not true. 

Quote

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Panthers will attempt to adjust Teddy Bridgewater's contract if its unable to move him via trade.

On the books for a $22.9 million cap hit this upcoming year, the team can either keep Bridgewater around as a backup for a restructured amount or save $2.9 million by cutting him altogether. With P.J. Walker, Will Grier, and Tommy Stevens still on the roster, the 28-year-old's most likely scenario is landing elsewhere before the draft. Although the Panthers soured on his performance down the stretch, Bridgewater remains competent enough to enter 2021 as a veteran option behind a developing quarterback.

If he doesn't redo his deal . . .

- $20 million in dead cap, $2.9M in cap savings if released before June 1
- $10 million in dead cap, $12.9M in cap savings if traded by June 1
- $15 million in dead cap 2021 and $5 million in 2022, $7.9M in cap savings if released after 6/1
- $5 million in dead cap 2021 and $5 million in 2022, $17.9M in cap savings if traded after 6/1.

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Not true. 

If he doesn't redo his deal . . .

- $20 million in dead cap, $2.9M in cap savings if released before June 1
- $10 million in dead cap, $12.9M in cap savings if traded by June 1
- $15 million in dead cap 2021 and $5 million in 2022, $7.9M in cap savings if released after 6/1
- $5 million in dead cap 2021 and $5 million in 2022, $17.9M in cap savings if traded after 6/1.

Now you have to wonder what is Carolina doing? 

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