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Sam Darnold - Meow, he's a Panther.


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As a Jets fan, Darnold was in a terrible situation with Jets. But he was also a terrible quarterback with them. He'll certainly have a good game or two if -- that's if -- he ever starts for Carolina,

I don't know how good he'll be in the NFL but when you have a chance to be a top 5 pick you don't risk your health playing another season for free.

Darnold is not good - but this isn't true at all. Haskins was a horrible player, a terrible teammate and a general jackass.

This seems like a really bad move for Carolina.  Darnold had nothing around him but he looked bad, real bad.    Hopefully they are not done dealing or they have a fair amount of money wrapped up in two backup QBs.  

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Great move for Carolina. That owner Tepper is running rings around the rest of the NFL, his time in Pittsburgh served him well. It's a good thing he is hands on and involved on every move, other owners are sipping red wine and smoking stogies while this guy just cannot stop putting his personal paw print on every player personnel move, thank goodness he arrived and got that Head Coach out of there, that guy didn't do much at his next stop, right? He didn't win the Division or nothing.

Not like he paid a 1st for Darnold or nothing, just a 6th...oh and a 4th...and a 2nd. They'll never feel it in Carolina.

Tepperware Party in full swing!

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That said, last post...I actually like Darnold's chances better in Carolina where he has a solid OL and a super running game, decent receivers plus the Superback behind him who catches everything. 

Just saying there are worse teams for him to land on if he has even a shred of talent left from when he was a Top-5 pick. 

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1 hour ago, Ministry of Pain said:

That said, last post...I actually like Darnold's chances better in Carolina where he has a solid OL and a super running game, decent receivers plus the Superback behind him who catches everything. 

Just saying there are worse teams for him to land on if he has even a shred of talent left from when he was a Top-5 pick. 

Ironically, he'll end up with a staff in Rhule and Brady that he could have had a few years ago had the Jets not told Rhule he couldn't hire his own assistants. 

Edited by sheerterror
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I remember when Tannehill was left for dead as well. I’m sure everyone knew he was going to go to Tennessee and play lights out. Who was his coach in Miami, again? I, for one, will reserve judgement on Darnold until I see him outside of a Jets uniform. 

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3 minutes ago, JoeJoe88 said:

I remember when Tannehill was left for dead as well. I’m sure everyone knew he was going to go to Tennessee and play lights out. Who was his coach in Miami, again? I, for one, will reserve judgement on Darnold until I see him outside of a Jets uniform. 

More power to them if they can turn Darnold into an asset. They didn't have much luck working with Bridgewater. At this stage, who knows if Darnold is better, worse, or the same compared to Teddy B.

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Sam Darnold trade: Who are the winners and losers?

Excerpt:

Quote

Winners

Sam Darnold: Is it too harsh to say he's the biggest winner because he gets away from the Jets? Well, it's true. Darnold never got a real chance at success in New York, considering he arrived during an exceptionally dysfunctional and unstable period. In his three seasons, the roster was among the worst in the league, and the coaching was substandard, particularly in the last two seasons when Adam Gase was in charge. Darnold also had an incredible amount of bad injury luck, missing time for, among other things, an injured shoulder and mononucleosis. Two head coaches and one general manager were fired during his three-year tenure. Now he gets to reset his career in Carolina, which will reportedly pick up his fifth-year option, signaling that the organization sees him as the starter. He will be coached by Matt Rhule and Joe Brady and will have better weapons in D.J. Moore, Christian McCaffrey and familiar face Robby Anderson. For Darnold, there won't be anymore excuses if the results don't pick up and if his tendency to throw maddening interceptions doesn't end, but for a quarterback with a career completion percentage under 60 percent, this is about as good a landing spot as one could hope for. Yes, three seasons is a pretty good sample size to make a judgment on a player, but important note: Darnold will be just 24 years old when the season starts.

Carolina Panthers: On paper, this is an incremental upgrade for the Panthers. But they didn't give up much -- second- and fourth-rounders in 2022 and a sixth-rounder this year -- for a quarterback who talent evaluators around the league feel still has significant upside that was untapped in New York. It was clear by the end of the season the Panthers did not view Teddy Bridgewater as the long-term answer, and with the eighth overall pick, the Panthers were out of range for the best of the quarterback draft class. The Panthers clearly believe their coaching can do more with Darnold than the Jets' did -- check Brady's work with Joe Burrow at LSU -- and have to be thinking of a Ryan Tannehill-like second act for Darnold.

 

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I'm not down on Darnold but I remember rolling my eyes when I read "ESPN's Adam Schefter thinks Sam Darnold could be worth a late first-round pick if traded" at Rotoworld in February.

Can anyone come up with a worse place for a QB to play their first three years than the NYJ? Not saying that I think he'll be a HOF'er but I remember Steve Young looking AWFUL in TB at the start of his NFL career(3-16 bad). Darnold is 23yo and McCaffrey/Moore are already the best two players he's every played with in the NFL and he hasn't had a single practice with them yet.

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7 hours ago, JoeJoe88 said:

I remember when Tannehill was left for dead as well. I’m sure everyone knew he was going to go to Tennessee and play lights out. Who was his coach in Miami, again? I, for one, will reserve judgement on Darnold until I see him outside of a Jets uniform. 

Tannehill wasn’t nearly as bad as Sam was under Gase.

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I think this is a good move. A list of reasons why he gets a bad rap:

1. His coach was Gase, who has proven he isn’t a good head coach at multiple stops now.

2. His best weapon so far has been Jamison Crowder.

3. His best rb has been 36 year old frank Gore.

4. Oline in the bottom half of the league.

5. Bad defense had him playing from behind.

6. Year 1 was ok for a rookie...year 2 he had mono/strep, then an enlarged spleen from mono. Missed time and was quarantined away from the team, almost the same as missing the off-season...year 3 there was no off-season. 

7. Roughly half of his career interceptions have come from 5 bad games. Still an alarming stat, but isn’t killing you every game.

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58 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Tannehill wasn’t nearly as bad as Sam was under Gase.

This is true, but I’d also argue he had a little more around him, too. It’s hard to imagine a QB who’s been more devoid of talent around him than Darnold since he’s been in the league, I’m just saying. 

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4 minutes ago, JoeJoe88 said:

This is true, but I’d also argue he had a little more around him, too. It’s hard to imagine a QB who’s been more devoid of talent around him than Darnold since he’s been in the league, I’m just saying. 

A washed up Joe Flacco was able to move the offense - with the same cast and coaching - better than Sam was.

He surely wasn’t done any favors but he also isn’t very good.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

A washed up Joe Flacco was able to move the offense - with the same cast and coaching - better than Sam was.

He surely wasn’t done any favors but he also isn’t very good.

While the stats say that is true, there is an article in Edge Rotoworld that describes the Coaching staff had a large impact on that due to not trusting Darnold on the Long Ball (very limited play calling on long throws - ranked 26th).

How much of it was Darnold and how much was the OC/HC?   Kid was only following the play calling.  

 

Quote

The same could be true for Darnold. Darnold is more reckless than aggressive down the field. As a result, he wasn’t asked to throw there very often in 2020, with his 38 attempts of 20-plus yards registering just 26th. Next Gen Stats charted Darnold’s average depth of target as merely .5 higher than Bridgewater’s, with his 7.8 mark checking in 26th amongst qualifying quarterbacks. No. 1 in that department? Joe Flacco, who was playing in the same dismal Jets Offense as Darnold. Gase trusted broken-down Flacco to chuck it deep but not Darnold. That’s not exactly a ringing endorsement for the kid’s future. 

 

I agree in that I want to see him with the skill players/ Offense weapons in Carolina.  Maybe his gunslinger attitude will work with DG & Robby!   Maybe they need a TE upgrade to support his intermediate throws too?  

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1 minute ago, Birdie048 said:

While the stats say that is true, there is an article in Edge Rotoworld that describes the Coaching staff had a large impact on that due to not trusting Darnold on the Long Ball (very limited play calling on long throws - ranked 26th).

How much of it was Darnold and how much was the OC/HC?   Kid was only following the play calling.  

The play-calling was terrible, but if you watched Sam play each week so was he. Sorry but it’s not as simple as putting it all on Gase - and Gase deserves to be ridiculed for many things. 

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

The play-calling was terrible, but if you watched Sam play each week so was he. Sorry but it’s not as simple as putting it all on Gase - and Gase deserves to be ridiculed for many things. 

I agree.  Sam played horrible.  The whole NYJ Offense was a disaster. I admit I did not watch more than a few Jets games.  (Don't get many in North Carolina).  I guess what I am saying is a 50-50 ball was a bad gamble in NY but maybe in CAR is works out. 

My question is what is Darnold's ceiling?  Can he find it in Carolina?  

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45 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

he also isn’t very good.

Maybe he isn't.  We shall see soon enough.  Again, though, I'll reserve judgement until I see him outside of NY.  His stats haven't been great, and neither has his team, but anyone who pretends they know precisely how much of it to blame is on him and how much was out of his control is lying.  And he's younger than Joe Burrow, so there's that.  He was 20 years old when he made his first start.  

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15 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

I think Lance has bust written all over him. Youngest guy available, hasn't played in a year, only 17 starts, played in a cupcake league. As others have mentioned, more of a runner than a passer.

IMO, CAR acquiring Darnold doesn't move the needle at all for NE. It just means the Panthers are more likely to move their pick to a team that DOES need a QB.

I think Lance is a talented guy but holy hell he is a massive project.  I mean like at least 2 years away at least before he can be a starter.  Not throwing a lot in High school, only playing 17 games at the FCS level, having a year plus off.  I mean he may be good but he has to go to a situation where he can sit and learn and not get thrown to the wolves too early

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2 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

I think this is a good move. A list of reasons why he gets a bad rap:

1. His coach was Gase, who has proven he isn’t a good head coach at multiple stops now.

2. His best weapon so far has been Jamison Crowder.

3. His best rb has been 36 year old frank Gore.

4. Oline in the bottom half of the league.

5. Bad defense had him playing from behind.

6. Year 1 was ok for a rookie...year 2 he had mono/strep, then an enlarged spleen from mono. Missed time and was quarantined away from the team, almost the same as missing the off-season...year 3 there was no off-season. 

7. Roughly half of his career interceptions have come from 5 bad games. Still an alarming stat, but isn’t killing you every game.

There were some very interesting end of the year quotes from Perriman and I believe Mims that were some veiled shots at Sam...things regarding how "it wasn't only on Coach Gase" and how different the ball felt to catch after being thrown from Flacco vs Darnold.  I don't even think they were trying to throw Sam under the bus, it was just honesty seeping out.

I said this a ton in the Jets thread - never in the history of NY sports has there been a bigger bust relative to cost/hype/actual production to get as clear of a pass in the local media as Sam.  I mean, it's not even close.  Guy has gotten every excuse in the book made for him, yet a free agent signing bust gets cooked after his first bad month.  Actually your entire "list of reason" is simply a bunch of excuses that do not justify why a top 3 overall draft pick who cost 3 additional second rounders to obtain could not overcome ANY of those things to show some form of competency.

There continues to be a narrative on him driven by the media about how it is entirely the "Jets" fault, which to me is such a damn analytical cop out.  Watch the games.  Be in the flow of this guy's Jets career from start to finish and you can understand the disappointment if not disdain from some of us.  Never ever stayed healthy.  Never showed anything more than one drive's worth of flashes at a time.  Regressed in footwork, decision making etc.  Outplayed by his washed up backup in the same system, with the same coaches and same poor weapons.  In a season where they were trailing virtually every single game, usually by double digits, it took him until WEEK 17 to break 230 passing yards in a game.  In a season where enough yards were thrown to get around the world 16 times.  That should tell you all you need to know.

I'm just thankful he's not here to continue to suck, and then put heat on the brand new coaching staff for ALSO not being able to coach Sam up.  Eventually you gotta realize it's the Indian and not the arrows.  

Edited by sheerterror
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1 hour ago, Birdie048 said:

I agree.  Sam played horrible.  The whole NYJ Offense was a disaster. I admit I did not watch more than a few Jets games.  (Don't get many in North Carolina).  I guess what I am saying is a 50-50 ball was a bad gamble in NY but maybe in CAR is works out. 

My question is what is Darnold's ceiling?  Can he find it in Carolina?  

I think his ceiling is Andy Dalton in his prime (slightly above average).

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48 minutes ago, JoeJoe88 said:

but anyone who pretends they know precisely how much of it to blame is on him and how much was out of his control is lying.  

Really? You think people that watched just about every game he's played are unable to judge that he deserves any blame? Didn't we just see a washed out Joe Flacco move the offense better than him with the same supporting cast and coaching staff? I will 100% admit that the Jets o-line was terrible, Gase was terrible and the skill players were below average but a true franchise QB would do enough to rise above that to at least some competency. Sam got worse as his career developed.

I'm not saying there's no chance he turns it around and becomes an adequate QB, there is, but if you saw how many times he held the ball too long., threw into tight coverage, threw to a "wide open" defender, ran out of bounds for a loss instead of throwing the ball away, and missed wide open guys I'm not hopeful he sticks around as a starting QB at this level.

He is being traded into a pretty good situation, so we'll know soon enough.

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

In the very little but I've seen of Darnold, his play does remind me a lot of Christian Ponder. :eek:

Good comparison. Decent skill set - bad head for the game.

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

that he deserves any blame

Never said that.  In fact, I admitted he played bad in NY.  What I said was, the organization and the team around him was a total mess as well.  There's no way for us to know right now how much of that was actually Sam, and how much was the team.  I'll refrain from blanket statements like he sucks and he's not very good until I see him play elsewhere.  

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Perhaps the Jets aren't as big of a mess as I think?  If that's the case, then Wilson or whoever they end up drafting at 2 should come in and immediately start winning games and putting up 300+ yard games.  

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9 minutes ago, JoeJoe88 said:

Perhaps the Jets aren't as big of a mess as I think?  If that's the case, then Wilson or whoever they end up drafting at 2 should come in and immediately start winning games and putting up 300+ yard games.  

I'd be willing to bet Wilson easily outperforms Darnold's best season with the Jets, and I'd even roll the dice that he has a better 2021. 

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Quote

Panthers general manager Scott Fitterer said acquiring Sam Darnold from the Jets doesn't take Carolina out of the quarterback market in the upcoming NFL Draft. 

"This doesn't take us out of anything in the draft," Fitterer said when asked about what the Darnold acquisition means for the team's draft plans. "It doesn't take us out of taking a quarterback, it doesn't take us out of taking any position. What we wanted to do going into this draft, through free agency, through this trade with Sam, was to just get rid of all the needs we have." It's just about what you'd expect any GM to say three weeks before the draft, though it's highly unlikely any of the top-four QBs will be available for the Panthers, who have the eighth pick. Darnold is a reclamation project for the Panthers. He inarguably has a higher ceiling than Teddy Bridgewater, whose disastrous 2020 season included 15 touchdown passes and 11 picks in 15 games. 

RELATED: 

Teddy Bridgewater

SOURCE: ESPN.com 

Apr 6, 2021, 8:40 AM ET

 

 

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14 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

That said, last post...I actually like Darnold's chances better in Carolina where he has a solid OL and a super running game, decent receivers plus the Superback behind him who catches everything. 

Just saying there are worse teams for him to land on if he has even a shred of talent left from when he was a Top-5 pick. 

Totally agreed.  There are few teams Sam could have reasonably landed on with better supporting players. Assuming CMC stays healthy, this is all on Sam at this point. If he succeeds, cool. If not he's done.

10 hours ago, JoeJoe88 said:

I remember when Tannehill was left for dead as well. I’m sure everyone knew he was going to go to Tennessee and play lights out. Who was his coach in Miami, again? I, for one, will reserve judgement on Darnold until I see him outside of a Jets uniform. 

That's fair. This could be brilliant for the Panthers. I think he'll have a career year. Whether that's actually good enough to make a difference, time will tell.

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As a Panther fan I'm a little perplexed at the trade. Didn't seem to give up much for what could turn out to be a really good deal. But losing 2 picks in the first 4 rounds of 2022, for a guy who might not be an upgrade of Bridgewater... sort of a head scratcher.

I'm just glad we didn't give up the 8th pick this year.  Hoping for the best for Sam.  

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9 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Totally agreed.  There are few teams Sam could have reasonably landed on with better supporting players. Assuming CMC stays healthy, this is all on Sam at this point. If he succeeds, cool. If not he's done.

That's fair. This could be brilliant for the Panthers. I think he'll have a career year. Whether that's actually good enough to make a difference, time will tell.

Darnold will not have excuses this season.  He has a pretty good RB to feed and a solid WR Corp.   

He has a chance to improve from being bad to average and that would a career year.   

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10 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

As a Panther fan I'm a little perplexed at the trade. Didn't seem to give up much for what could turn out to be a really good deal. But losing 2 picks in the first 4 rounds of 2022, for a guy who might not be an upgrade of Bridgewater... sort of a head scratcher.

I'm just glad we didn't give up the 8th pick this year.  Hoping for the best for Sam.  

It's a gamble.  Maybe it does pay off.  I just hope they don't pass on a QB if one falls to 8. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Really? You think people that watched just about every game he's played are unable to judge that he deserves any blame? Didn't we just see a washed out Joe Flacco move the offense better than him with the same supporting cast and coaching staff? I will 100% admit that the Jets o-line was terrible, Gase was terrible and the skill players were below average but a true franchise QB would do enough to rise above that to at least some competency. Sam got worse as his career developed.

I'm not saying there's no chance he turns it around and becomes an adequate QB, there is, but if you saw how many times he held the ball too long., threw into tight coverage, threw to a "wide open" defender, ran out of bounds for a loss instead of throwing the ball away, and missed wide open guys I'm not hopeful he sticks around as a starting QB at this level.

He is being traded into a pretty good situation, so we'll know soon enough.

Lol, flacco didn’t win a game. He was shutout by Miami. He had one decent game and 3 stinkers.
 

 I admit you could be right and you’ve watched more Jets/Bradford than me. I would argue that his growth as a qb has been hindered by early season missed time and lack of proper off-season work and a very lackluster supporting crew in every aspect, from line to skill positions to defense. 
 

Heres a blurb from PFF:

“Overall, however, it was a disappointing season for the offensive line in New York. They allowed pressure in 2.5 seconds or less on 28% of their dropbacks — the worst rate in the NFL. The line wasn’t creating many lanes in the run game, either. The Jets averaged just 1.1 yards per carry before contact per rushing attempt in 2020 (30th). Once again, they’ll have to look to add pieces to their offensive line this offseason.”

Let’s see how this plays out.


*may have quoted wrong person here*

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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

It's a gamble.  Maybe it does pay off.  I just hope they don't pass on a QB if one falls to 8. 

Guaranteed a QB falls to 8. 

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2 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Lol, flacco didn’t win a game. He was shutout by Miami.

What does that have to do with what I said?

He was shutout by Miami (by the way the Jets scored 3 points against Miami in the game Darnold started) but lost his other games 34-28, 30-27 and 30-10. 
 

In 4 games Flacco threw for 864 yards, 6 TDs and 3 INTs.

In 12 games Darnold threw for 2,208 yards, 9 TDs and 11 INTs.

Which seems better to you?
 

Sam threw for 175 yards and 207 yards with 3 TDs in their wins - It's not like he was a big contributor. 


 

 

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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Since I was curious about how things went for top QB picks that moved on, here is a list of former Top 10 picks that went on to play elsewhere over the past 20 years . . .

2018	Sam Darnold	3	TBD
2018	Josh Rosen	10	Already on 3rd team
2017	Mitch Trubisky	2	TBD but now a backup
2016	Jared Goff	1	TBD
2016	Carson Wentz	2	TBD
2015	Jameis Winston	1	TBD
2015	Marcus Mariota	2	TBD but now a backup
2014	Blake Bortles	3	Moved on to DEN and LAR
2012	Robert Griffin	2	7 starts in 4 years in CLE and BAL
2012	Ryan Tannehill	8	Blossomed in 2 years in TEN
2011	Cam Newton	1	Not great Year 1 in NE
2011	Blaine Gabbert	10	21 starts in 6 years on 4 teams
2010	Sam Bradford	1	Started for a year each in PHI and MIN, backup in ARI
2009	Matt Stafford	1	TBD
2009	Mark Sanchez	5	Mostly backup in 4 years with PHI, DAL, WAS
2006	Vince Young	1	1 year as a backup in PHI
2006	Matt Leinart	10	2 years a a backup in HOU and OAK
2005	Alex Smith	1	61-31 record as a starter since leaving SF
2004	Philip Rivers	4	1 year to close out his career in IND
2003	Carson Palmer	1	Had several strong seasons in OAK and ARI
2003	Byron Leftwich	7	6 starts in 5 years on 3 teams
2002	David Carr	1	4 starts in 5 years on 3 teams
2002	Joey Harrington	3	A year starting for MIA and another for ATL
2001	Michael Vick	1	Started 3.5 years for PHI then backup in NYJ and PIT

Guys that seemed to be successful in Act II were Tannehill, Smith, and Palmer. Vick is sort of in his own category, as he didn't have performance issues while in ATL, his legal issues kept him away. Many of the older examples went on to be backups. Too soon to tell on the handful of more recent players.

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28 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Since I was curious about how things went for top QB picks that moved on, here is a list of former Top 10 picks that went on to play elsewhere over the past 20 years . . .


2018	Sam Darnold	3	TBD
2018	Josh Rosen	10	Already on 3rd team
2017	Mitch Trubisky	2	TBD but now a backup
2016	Jared Goff	1	TBD
2016	Carson Wentz	2	TBD
2015	Jameis Winston	1	TBD
2015	Marcus Mariota	2	TBD but now a backup
2014	Blake Bortles	3	Moved on to DEN and LAR
2012	Robert Griffin	2	7 starts in 4 years in CLE and BAL
2012	Ryan Tannehill	8	Blossomed in 2 years in TEN
2011	Cam Newton	1	Not great Year 1 in NE
2011	Blaine Gabbert	10	21 starts in 6 years on 4 teams
2010	Sam Bradford	1	Started for a year each in PHI and MIN, backup in ARI
2009	Matt Stafford	1	TBD
2009	Mark Sanchez	5	Mostly backup in 4 years with PHI, DAL, WAS
2006	Vince Young	1	1 year as a backup in PHI
2006	Matt Leinart	10	2 years a a backup in HOU and OAK
2005	Alex Smith	1	61-31 record as a starter since leaving SF
2004	Philip Rivers	4	1 year to close out his career in IND
2003	Carson Palmer	1	Had several strong seasons in OAK and ARI
2003	Byron Leftwich	7	6 starts in 5 years on 3 teams
2002	David Carr	1	4 starts in 5 years on 3 teams
2002	Joey Harrington	3	A year starting for MIA and another for ATL
2001	Michael Vick	1	Started 3.5 years for PHI then backup in NYJ and PIT

Guys that seemed to be successful in Act II were Tannehill, Smith, and Palmer. Vick is sort of in his own category, as he didn't have performance issues while in ATL, his legal issues kept him away. Many of the older examples went on to be backups. Too soon to tell on the handful of more recent players.

Palmer and Smith were both successful (although Smith took a while) with the teams that drafted them though. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

What does that have to do with what I said?

He was shutout by Miami (by the way the Jets scored 3 points against Miami in the game Darnold started) but lost his other games 34-28, 30-27 and 30-10. 
 

In 4 games Flacco threw for 864 yards, 6 TDs and 3 INTs.

In 12 games Darnold threw for 2,208 yards, 9 TDs and 11 INTs.

Which seems better to you?
 

Sam threw for 175 yards and 207 yards with 3 TDs in their wins - It's not like he was a big contributor. 


 

 

I edited pretty quickly but I meant to quote @sheerterror. Overall flaccos numbers look ok but he had one good game (vs NE.) Darnold wasn’t good; I’m saying Flacco wasn’t really much better. Flacco’s numbers look better because of his one good game; darnold’s numbers look worse than they are largely because of two awful games. I’m not going to go to bat too far for Darnold here. He was a stinky QB on a stinky team. Flacco was also a stinky qb on a stinky team. Granted, I’m cherry picking games here a bit in his defense, but I think it’s a reasonable dart throw for the panthers. I don’t think it’s “making excuses” to say the Jets have had a bad oline, bad run game, bad defense, and bad coach the last few years. 

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4 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

I edited pretty quickly but I meant to quote @sheerterror. Overall flaccos numbers look ok but he had one good game (vs NE.) Darnold wasn’t good; I’m saying Flacco wasn’t really much better. Flacco’s numbers look better because of his one good game; darnold’s numbers look worse than they are largely because of two awful games. I’m not going to go to bat too far for Darnold here. He was a stinky QB on a stinky team. Flacco was also a stinky qb on a stinky team. Granted, I’m cherry picking games here a bit in his defense, but I think it’s a reasonable dart throw for the panthers. I don’t think it’s “making excuses” to say the Jets have had a bad oline, bad run game, bad defense, and bad coach the last few years. 

PFF graded Darnold at 58.4 last season. They had Flacco at 55.8. Both of those ratings are in the realm of terrible to awful.

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56 minutes ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Lol at the Jets fans in this thread. You guys are DESPERATE for Darnold to fail. 

Every Jets fan knows:

  • McCagnan criminally ignored the offensive line
  • Gase and his puppet OC were horrific play callers
  • the former front office did not surround him with legit talent at the skill positions (although Robbie Anderson had his best season after he got away from Darnold).

It's fair to say the Jets ruined Darnold, I suppose. But that doesn't mean it's not also possible he just isn't a capable NFL starter. If you actually watched him each week you would see the poor mechanics, decision making, accuracy and failure to learn from past mistakes.

It's not like Jets fans are unaware that Gase and Big Mac were terrible so why would it matter if Darnold went on to flourish in Carolina?

At this point it only matters if Wilson, Fields or whoever they take is a franchise QB.

 

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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4 hours ago, JoeJoe88 said:

I'd take that bet.

Oh God, bring it on. No way this year's Darnold outperforms Wilson at QB.

1 hour ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Lol at the Jets fans in this thread. You guys are DESPERATE for Darnold to fail. 

Nope. We watched Sam for many years. You know how many times he passed for over 200 yards and threw for two touchdowns in a game the past two years?

Once. He was awful. Hope he finds it somewhere else, because it sure wasn't going to be with the ghosts chasing him in NY.

Edited by rockaction
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37 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

I edited pretty quickly but I meant to quote @sheerterror. Overall flaccos numbers look ok but he had one good game (vs NE.) Darnold wasn’t good; I’m saying Flacco wasn’t really much better. Flacco’s numbers look better because of his one good game; darnold’s numbers look worse than they are largely because of two awful games. I’m not going to go to bat too far for Darnold here. He was a stinky QB on a stinky team. Flacco was also a stinky qb on a stinky team. Granted, I’m cherry picking games here a bit in his defense, but I think it’s a reasonable dart throw for the panthers. I don’t think it’s “making excuses” to say the Jets have had a bad oline, bad run game, bad defense, and bad coach the last few years. 

I certainly don't argue with your overall premise - and am definitely not defending the Jets as some form of a competent organization, but I'll revert back to my point that a true franchise QB - especially one worth the draft capital he cost, as well as the respective surrounding hype - transcends SOME of those factors to elevate those around him.  Sam did none of that with any consistency at any point in his tenure.  There were no stretches of games like there generally are with rookie future star QB where you thought "hey this kid really has it."  That was always a narrative that had to be force-fed, at least to those that truly pay attention to the team.  Murray, Burrow, Herbert, hell even Minshew had shown more extended sample size of being able to elevate those around him.

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