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USA Shootings (7 Viewers)

timschochet said:
Are you referring to Ted Cruz? Or somebody else? 

If it’s Ted, please explain how one of the most prominent senators in this country, from one of the most powerful states in the Union, got “bullied” by a bunch of high school kids. 
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Can’t really bully someone that doesn’t have any shame.

 
Billy Bats said:
The kids at Parkland openly admitted that they bullied Cruz. And like you said its not the sole reason that occurred either. But it’s certainly a big factor. 
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No they didn't. Emma Gonzalez said they ostracized him, they avoided him for his crazy antisocial behavior. That is not the same as bullying.

 
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timschochet said:
Are you referring to Ted Cruz? Or somebody else? 

If it’s Ted, please explain how one of the most prominent senators in this country, from one of the most powerful states in the Union, got “bullied” by a bunch of high school kids. 
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Seriously? The kid who shot up Parkland.

 
timschochet said:
Are you referring to Ted Cruz? Or somebody else? 

If it’s Ted, please explain how one of the most prominent senators in this country, from one of the most powerful states in the Union, got “bullied” by a bunch of high school kids. 
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no Cruz was the shooter in Parkland. And some odd the kids in that HS openly said they bullied him—the shooter. 

BB was responding to my post where some students in todays shooting said the suspect was harshly bullied by other students and coaches 

 
Stealthycat said:
I don't think any, news is still coming in. I'm reading the security stopped him - before he could shoot more and detonate. Thank God they were there

in the future, you're going to see more school bombings and less active shooters. These shooters are getting stopped quick now .... detonating bombs from afar is going to get to be a problem IMO.

Assume I'm right in that prediction ... what are you going to ban to stop that ?
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I'm sure glad the AMA doesn't follow the same logic as the NRA.  "Hey, if we find a way to beat smallpox, people are still going to die from heart attacks.  And, if we find a way to avoid heart attacks, people are still going to die from cancer.  So, why should we try to beat smallpox?"

 
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timschochet said:
Anyone who mentions Planned Parenthood in this discussion, as a comparison to the NRA, deserves nothing but contempt and scorn. 
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LOL again

contempt and scorn for saying NRA members and the association itself is to blame for some wacko 17 year old killing someone .... where that at  ?

NRA LITERALLY doesn't support killing innocent people or 17 year olds to do what this kid did. LITERALLY

 
Stealthycat said:
I have a concealed weapons license, which means I've been background checked, went through training etc.

But your'e right, people see that .......... which is a irrational fear and they knee jerk instead to judge people carrying guns.
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That's good. It's just that, how do I know that you've done those things? I'm going to error on the side of caution there.

To add, frankly, if it is concealed, and you have a permit, I'm good with that. I'm probably thinking more of open carrying, which just leads me to think something is up with a guy like that. I don't like to judge, but when there's a weapon in the scenario? I'm thinking about things now that I shouldn't have to in freaking Walmart.

Generally on the issue though: I think there's agreement that mental illness plus weapons is a lethal combination in our schools every week now. Maybe think about people coming at that equation from both sides, and cut them some slack for thinking there are solutions on both of those fronts, without it being an outright attack on the 2nd Amendment.

 
squistion said:
No they didn't. Emma Gonzalez said they ostracized him, they avoided him for this crazy antisocial behavior. That is not the same as bullying.
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ostracizing may not be physically bullying someone, but it is no better. Maybe the kid did have some odd behaviors, if i recall correctly he came from a very toubled, broken home, but the sense of isolation from your fellow peers can be just as damaging 

again...not excusing the final act at all. 

 
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apalmer said:
I'm sure glad the AMA doesn't follow the same logic as the NRA.  "Hey, if we find a way to beat smallpox, people are still going to die from heart attacks.  And, if we find a way to avoid heart attacks, people are still going to die from cancer.  So, why should we try to beat smallpox?"
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In fact wouldn't a small pox epidemic lessen the annual number of heart attacks.

 
apalmer said:
I'm sure glad the AMA doesn't follow the same logic as the NRA.  "Hey, if we find a way to beat smallpox, people are still going to die from heart attacks.  And, if we find a way to avoid heart attacks, people are still going to die from cancer.  So, why should we try to beat smallpox?"
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great anology

instead of treating all the symptoms of smallpox and placing laws on people that don't have smallpox, they actually attacked the core problem and in doing so, made a huge difference

attack the core problem here too - the people doing these things

 
glvsav37 said:
ostracizing may not be physically bullying someone, but it is no better. Maybe the kid did have some odd behaviors, if i recall correctly he came from a very toubled, broken home, but the sense of isolation from your fellow peers can be just as damaging
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so up until 25 years or so ago, nobody was ever bullied, ostracized or had peer issues ?

they did - more so then than now I'd guess .... but as kid, we didn't run to the truck, grab our guns and kill people.

 
Spin said:
Why don't we have metal detectors on the entrances for every school? I have to do it to go watch a Preds game, they control the entrance, and check bags there.  Why can't we do this for our schools, too?
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Because you don't go to a Preds game because of a legal requirement every day along with 2000 other people who have to be there at the same time every morning by law and your parents don't get arrested if you're late to too many Preds games.

 
glvsav37 said:
ostracizing may not be physically bullying someone, but it is no better. Maybe the kid did have some odd behaviors, if i recall correctly he came from a very toubled, broken home, but the sense of isolation from your fellow peers can be just as damaging 
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This kid was a mess but you can't blame his fellow students for avoiding him.  

"Items recovered by police at the scene included gun magazines with swastikas carved in them. One student reported that Cruz had drawn a swastika and the words "I hate [n-word]" on his backpack.[77] CNN reported that Cruz was in a private Instagramgroup chat where he expressed racist, homophobic, antisemitic, and anti-immigrant (xenophobic) views. He said he wanted to kill gay people and Mexicans, and talked about keeping black people in chains. He said he hated black people "simply because they were black," and Jewish people because he believed "they wanted to destroy the world". He also referred to white women who engaged in interracial relationships as traitors.[78]

A former classmate said Cruz had anger management issues and often joked about guns and gun violence, which included threats of shooting up establishments.[9] The brother of a 2016 graduate described him as "super stressed out all the time and talked about guns a lot and tried to hide his face". A student who was enrolled at the school at the time of the shooting said, "I think everyone had in their minds if anybody was going to do it, it was going to be him".[79] A classmate who was assigned to work with him in sophomore year said, "He told me how he got kicked out of two private schools. He was held back twice. He had aspirations to join the military. He enjoyed hunting."[65] A student's mother said that he also bragged about killing animals. A neighbor said his mother would call the police over to the house to try to talk some sense into him.[80]"

Let me ask you this:  If you had a kid that went to Parkland would you encourage your child to befriend this kid?

 
glvsav37 said:
ostracizing may not be physically bullying someone, but it is no better. Maybe the kid did have some odd behaviors, if i recall correctly he came from a very toubled, broken home, but the sense of isolation from your fellow peers can be just as damaging 
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It wasn't just odd behaviors, he was constantly cursing people and had been involved in several physical altercations, including threatening some students lives. He treated his peers in a very disturbing manner. They did what they could to avoid interacting with him, because several feared it would result in some sort of act of violence and several said they were not surprised he was involved in a mass shooting. You seriously can't expect them to socially embrace this guy who was suspended numerous times due to anti-social behavior.

 
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glvsav37 said:
ostracizing may not be physically bullying someone, but it is no better. 
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I’d say it is better. All ostracizing may mean, in this context, is that they left him alone, didn’t want anything to do with him. You can’t force kids to be friends with somebody they don’t like. 

Bullying on the other hand is taking an active negative interest, and that’s far worse IMO than leaving somebody alone. 

But all of this is silly. I was bullied some in school. Lots of people were. We never once considered going on a shooting rampage. The key here isn’t the bullying, it’s the guns. 

 
Stealthycat said:
great anology

instead of treating all the symptoms of smallpox and placing laws on people that don't have smallpox, they actually attacked the core problem and in doing so, made a huge difference

attack the core problem here too - the people doing these things
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That’s a great thought. But from what I’ve seen when that is attempted to be done certain people will claim these people are protected by the 2nd amendment and if you don’t allow them to have guns it’s a slippery slope and they’ll get taken from everyone. 

 
Stealthycat said:
so up until 25 years or so ago, nobody was ever bullied, ostracized or had peer issues ?

they did - more so then than now I'd guess .... but as kid, we didn't run to the truck, grab our guns and kill people.
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no, they were alive and well.....#### i got bullied, and i prob bullied other kids too...but when we did or happen to use, most for the time we threw hands in the parking lot and it was over. We also had different support systems and less opportunity for the bully to spread it beyond the crowd of kids around them. Now with social media, and other outlets bullying has taken a much wider turn. 

IDK if it was "more so then now" as you say, i think it is 100x worse. Looking at it in a different vain, how many kids have made the news for committing suicide b/c of bullying in the last few years? Granted they didn't go on a shooting spree..but the way they 'handled it' is just as final and devastating. .

 
timschochet said:
I’d say it is better. All ostracizing may mean, in this context, is that they left him alone, didn’t want anything to do with him. You can’t force kids to be friends with somebody they don’t like. 

Bullying on the other hand is taking an active negative interest, and that’s far worse IMO than leaving somebody alone. 

But all of this is silly. I was bullied some in school. Lots of people were. We never once considered going on a shooting rampage. The key here isn’t the bullying, it’s the guns. 
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That's one of those other amendments that isn't as important as the 2nd.

 
squistion said:
No they didn't. Emma Gonzalez said they ostracized him, they avoided him for his crazy antisocial behavior. That is not the same as bullying.
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I wasn’t referring to Emma. I seen another vid that I’m looking for but can’t find it, where a student talked about it. No agenda here just commenting on the bullying issue. 

 
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NREC34 said:
That’s a great thought. But from what I’ve seen when that is attempted to be done certain people will claim these people are protected by the 2nd amendment and if you don’t allow them to have guns it’s a slippery slope and they’ll get taken from everyone. 
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not the 2nd, that's guns

the 1st is what these people and the ACLU and Democrats will hide them under. So much to the fact that Parkland students defied clear backpacks in order to be safer because they claimed their Rights were being violated

also

the bullying claims might have been bogus - we don't know yet for sure.
 

Johnson said she was familiar with the "see something, say something" policy, but this student was "not one of those kids" that would have aroused suspicions.

"He was very, very sweet. I had classes with him," Johnson said. "It's really sad, because you don't know why they do this."

Watch Johnson recount the shooting in the clip above.
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Free Republic is reporting that the kid wore “Antifa wear”. 

Im not even sure what “Antifa wear” would be. A ski mask? 

 
glvsav37 said:
no, they were alive and well.....#### i got bullied, and i prob bullied other kids too...but when we did or happen to use, most for the time we threw hands in the parking lot and it was over. We also had different support systems and less opportunity for the bully to spread it beyond the crowd of kids around them. Now with social media, and other outlets bullying has taken a much wider turn. 

IDK if it was "more so then now" as you say, i think it is 100x worse. Looking at it in a different vain, how many kids have made the news for committing suicide b/c of bullying in the last few years? Granted they didn't go on a shooting spree..but the way they 'handled it' is just as final and devastating. .
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right

so why are guns now the problem and they wasn't 20-30 years or go or more ?

remember guys and gals, my Dad carried a gun into the school in the 1940's

I had guns in the rear or my truck as late as 1987 and we all carried knives in our pockets

rarely was there any issues

Now, all that is banned and we have shootings every months and its all of a sudden a gun issue ?

 
Impressive leadership from our dip####, awful, evil Lt. Gov - 

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick says there are too many entrances and exits to schools, and that is why shootings are able to happen. "Had there been one single entrance possibly for every student, maybe he would have been stopped."

 
Stealthycat said:
not the 2nd, that's guns

the 1st is what these people and the ACLU and Democrats will hide them under. So much to the fact that Parkland students defied clear backpacks in order to be safer because they claimed their Rights were being violated

also

the bullying claims might have been bogus - we don't know yet for sure.
 
Click to expand...
So you didn’t mean to have a way to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people by that. K thanks. 

 
timschochet said:
Free Republic is reporting that the kid wore “Antifa wear”. 
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I saw one pic of his guns, another of nazi symbols on a jacket, reports he always wore trench coats

weird thing.... his Dad was President of an engineering firm, but his mom lives in a trailer ??? That seems odd

 
Stealthycat said:
I tell you this right now.

You succeed and ban certain types of gun, and you WILL create tens of millions of criminals because they're not going to give their guns freely.

That's what you want?
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No I’m cool with just not selling them anymore, buybacks etc. But frankly on a day like today when we took everything these kids have and everything they’re were ever going to have I could give two ####s about the fee fees of owners of these guns. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrFilmkritik/status/997524179061702657

 
@Officer Pete Malloy and @squistion 

I admitted, I don't know a lot about the Cruz kid....i do remember reports of him being very odd and having parents die or something. So i 100% get where you are conning from if the reports of his anger and threatening issues are true. 

I honestly didn't mean to make this about him...someone else brought his name into my reply about this situation.

All i am saying is that kids dont just decide to go shoot up a school....just because they have a gun or not. There are deeper issues at play. Yes, bullying has been around forever, and as i said in anther post, I was bullied and prob bullied some other kids. But we settled it and moved on. IDK why kids are turning to guns now? But there has to be reasons. 

and full disclosure, I dont own a gun or plan to, and my wife is a teacher in a school that my son goes to, so i have 2 family members in the same building that could be a target for a situation like this. So i take this very seriously, but I'm just wondering 'why?' and not "with what?'

 
Sammy3469 said:
Guns don't kill kids, too many entrances at school kill kids!  SEAL THE DOORS!

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick says there are too many entrances and exits to schools, and that is why shootings are able to happen. "Had there been one single entrance possibly for every student, maybe he would have been stopped."
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https://twitter.com/TomNamako/status/997557776850268162
Click to expand...


I don't know, how did he get on campus? is there really an accomplice? But I agree - access to schools HAVE to be limited. That's one of the easiest ways to safegaurd

 
Jackstraw said:
No I’m cool with just not selling them anymore, buybacks etc. But frankly on a day like today when we took everything these kids have and everything they’re were ever going to have I could give two ####s about the fee fees of owners of these guns.
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I took nothing from those kids, neither did you.

Only one person responsible for doing that - the 17 year old.

 
Stealthycat said:
I don't know, how did he get on campus? is there really an accomplice? But I agree - access to schools HAVE to be limited. That's one of the easiest ways to safegaurd
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If he got them from his father like is being reported the father should do prison time. How about that? 

 
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Jackstraw said:
If he got them from his father like is being reported the father should do prison time. How about that? 
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I'm fine with criminal liability for unsecured storage.  If he made attempts to secure them, say a locked gun safe with the combination encrypted and written down password protected on the pops computer and the kid broke in, not so much. 

New tech makes secure storage even more certain with thumb print locks.  I'm not sure I would require this new tech for responsible storage, but I am not sure that I wouldn't.  This would likely cost me a bit as I would have to change out a safe, or at least the lock thereon, but maybe that is a reasonable requirement and maybe I am no judge of this since I would have financial skin in the game.

I suppose one way to ameliorate costs for me would be to disassemble guns not in active service and to keep key components in a small, thumb print locked safe and to leave the majority of the weapon in my current safe.  Hell I suppose I could put the smaller safe inside my current safe for that matter.

 
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