KCitons
Footballguy
If I'm left with the choice between universal health care for my daughter with diabetes and tougher gun laws, which should I choose? It's not as easy as it looks.
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USA Shootings (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter randall146
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
Not at all. The last gun I purchased had an automatic membership with purchase. I expressly asked the clerk to not enroll me as I don't want anything to do with the NRA.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
And that's fine to post, and if those things fix or significantly help, I'm all for them. But our elected officials in power right now, namely the GOP, are refusing to even take these steps.
At a certain point, when you refuse to do potentially sensible things like you suggest here, you lose the ability to set the agenda for a solution and when another party gains power, the solution they put in place will likely be something worse.
But essentially that's what politics has become these days. A party refusing to budge on any issue important to their base, so they lose an election, the other party puts in place sensible regulations, and they spend ALL their time opposing the regulations, once passed they lobby to repeal the regulations, and they do this long enough and win the election, and then they repeal the regulations...and we're back where we started. See health care. See financial regulation. See Iran deal.
So again, your proposal might help, but it's never going to be enacted by politicians who need the support of the gun lobby. This is our reality.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
NRA also successfully lobbied a bunch of other stuff in law enforcement that would make your head spin, like limitations on digitizing information about guns and gun violence to make it easily shareable and searchable with other law enforcement agencies. There are still giant stacks of paper that would have been in databases decades ago if not for the NRA.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I assume you’re referencing knife vs. rifle statistics. Let’s use “knives and cutting instruments” vs. “guns and shooting instruments” or let’s break out the type of knife if we’re going to run that route.Stealthycat said:
A concealed Bowie knife is illegal most places. How many Bowie knife murders were there? Should we make those legal?
Switchblades are illegal many places. How many of those? Are you marching for switchblade rights? Seems pretty hypocritical of you not to fight for people’s right to carry a switchblade. Really, it seems like you don’t care at all about people’s right to defend themselves.
adonis
Footballguy
I agree. That's why blame game doesn't work. You could vote for a candidate because she supports a position you care strongly about, while holding your nose about a position she holds that you strongly disagree with. It's all about why you support the candidate, as to whether you deserve any arbitrarily assigned blame. It's likely even more complicated than that, but I really don't care to talk about blame, rather than to talk about advocating for a good solution, or folks likely to put in place a solution...that helps.
But I imagine there are some candidates who support both universal health care and tougher gun laws, so this one is likely easier.
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Bull####. Just like this congress and NRA. Nothing happens. DO SOMETHING as a gun owner. Talk is cheap.
KCitons
Footballguy
As I already mentioned, there is little any of us can do right at this moment. If there was, they would have already taken place. This pointing blame right now and saying blood is on the hands of gun owners is ridiculous. If it's so simple to accomplish, then why haven't the anti gun proponents done it already?
KCitons
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
One party wants universal health care and they may want gun regulations beyond what I think is correct. If the other wants universal health care and no gun control, which do I vote for?
KCitons
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Which party that has a chance of winning power are you talking about that wants universal healthcare?
adonis
Footballguy
Saying blood on the hands of gun owners is ridiculous. Saying blood is on the hands of folks who continue to oppose gun regulation of any kind is a debatable issue.
There's not "little any one of us can do". If we care enough about this issue, we can vote for folks who are likely to do something about the issue. I guarantee you this is not the GOP at this time in our history.
So if you care about the issue, you know a vote for the GOP is a vote for the status quo on gun control, or equally likely an expansion of gun access. Other parties have folks who are more than willing to do something about this given a majority in congress. We can all help make that happen.
Yes, there are other issues that go along with this that you may not agree with...but that's life. Make the best decision you can about the things most important to you and live with the consequences while hoping to help mitigate them.
But if your daughter has diabetes and you're supportive of gun control legislation, the voting options seem pretty straightforward to me.
Wow. really? See, I really should have checked out of this thread. You don't know me and the only thing I know about you is that you are a gun supporter. Its on you dude.
KCitons
Footballguy
No it's not. It's bully tactics. Doesn't work with me.
Unless you were saying the ignorance is on the part of the person that says blood is on the hands of all gun owners.
KCitons
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Because we were talking about parties. Read your post I was quoting. I was responding directly to you talking about two parties in that post.
KCitons
Footballguy
What's your point. Nothing can be done right now.
I am not going to send money to someone or some group until I'm sure they represent my opinions. Would you send money to Trump or the NRA?
squistion
Footballguy
Then don't make absurd hypotheticals about choices in the future you will never have to make, such as the choice between universal health care for your daughter with diabetes and tougher gun laws (hint: they aren't mutually exclusive).
How can you expect a serious discussion when you post things like that unless this is just a fishing expedition?
KCitons
Footballguy
No I was talking about choices. Doesn't matter the party. It will come down to candidate and whether or not I align with their platform. (and trust they will follow through)
KCitons
Footballguy
I can make those statements, because I don't limit myself to 2 parties. That's why you think they aren't mutually exclusive. I refuse to vote single issue.
toshiba
Footballguy
toshiba
Footballguy
I am a gun owner, no blood on my hands. But I would be willing to give up my guns to save these kids.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
This school did have better security. And still 10 kids died.Stealthycat said:
This is basically a variation of the "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy.
You've argued that (paraphrasing) "School shooting deaths wouldn't happen if they had security officers."
Then, when Florida happened, you said (paraphrasing) "Well, obviously they needed true security officers. That guy was a coward."
Then, when Texas happened, you said (paraphrasing) "Well, obviously they needed better security officers."
And you will continue to move the goalposts each time new evidence is presented to debunk your argument.
P.S. you're also using a different form of fallacy when you say "something Democrats will not discuss".
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
He is shameless in that respect. Mr. Cat doesn't just move the goalposts, he moves the stadium.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
toshiba
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
That would do nothing. You change the laws/rules and then everyone has them. Work for the fix.
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Every little bit helps. Have to start somewhere. Those pushing so hard can lead the way by doing so themselves. I'm anti-gun and don't have any in my house. You can do it too.
toshiba
Footballguy
To be honest they have been locked at the shooting range for a year now and only signed one out for a few days last fall to hunt. But I have no real need for them and probably should just be done with them.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
toshiba
Footballguy
I had done a bunch of research after Parkland to get rid of my guns but didn't get around to it, as they are safely locked up. But actually Sante Fe will push me to do it.
I wish destroy them and turn the parts into the police, they will even come get them, and they will finish their destruction.
I wish destroy them and turn the parts into the police, they will even come get them, and they will finish their destruction.
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randall146
Footballguy
OP updated. We're up to 34 school shootings this year by my count. Congrats to all
Henry Ford
Footballguy
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yeah, I’ve had this stupid hand cannon since I was young. I may keep a revolver in the future but I’m getting rid of this thing. It’s dumb to have. Probably better to go with a pepper ball gun or taser anyway at this point.
Dickies
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Forget gun reform, let’s require students to wear bullet proof vests as the school uniform.
msommer
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
This is very very easy, care for your daughter. Gun rights should pale in comparison or be laughably incomparable.
As for why it has to be a party or voting on a candidate by candidate basis it’s pretty clear dems want to lower the cost and provide easier access to healthcare, the republicans are afraid it may be good legislation and have done everything they can to sabotage it which will cost us all more in premiums. The dems want gun reform. The president is all for guns- wait, parkland....we need to do something about the guns in the country....until I talk in front of the NRA where I reassure them that democrats= no guns and trump= protection....until Santa Fe, now I’m saying we need to take a look.
As far as comparing gun and dui/alchohol related deaths, fine. You want equivalency? If I let someone who isn’t supposed to drink (16 ur old) get my liquor and he kills someone or gets hurt himself? I’m liable. If I sell someone too much alchohol in the bar and they hurt themselves or others? I’m liable. Let’s attach the same civil and criminal liatbility.
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