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USA Shootings (11 Viewers)

If I wanted to kill a lot of people in a short period of time, I would use an assault rifle. Not a knife, not a handgun, not a shotgun. 

I’ve never understood why these weapons are legal. It seems pretty simple to me that they should not be. 

 
Glass Joe said:
I haven’t seen anyone not taking the shooting seriously. I think that people who are commenting on the shooting are (like me) sick of the intractability of people who can force any changes.
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You wrote “Thanks Donald”. I’m as big a critic of our President as anyone here but that’s terrible. We don’t know what this guy’s motivations were. And suppose he is a huge Trump fan and wanted to kill as many Hispanics as he could find? Even then what you wrote would still be terrible, beyond the pale. It’s the sort of crap that Trump himself pulls all the time. 

 
timschochet said:
You wrote “Thanks Donald”. I’m as big a critic of our President as anyone here but that’s terrible. We don’t know what this guy’s motivations were. And suppose he is a huge Trump fan and wanted to kill as many Hispanics as he could find? Even then what you wrote would still be terrible, beyond the pale. It’s the sort of crap that Trump himself pulls all the time. 
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You think that trumps focus on immigration, and the presidency’s ability to draw focus to pet issues, plays no part in the rabid anti-immigrant fervor in parts of America? 

 
timschochet said:
You wrote “Thanks Donald”. I’m as big a critic of our President as anyone here but that’s terrible. We don’t know what this guy’s motivations were. And suppose he is a huge Trump fan and wanted to kill as many Hispanics as he could find? Even then what you wrote would still be terrible, beyond the pale. It’s the sort of crap that Trump himself pulls all the time. 
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Oh stop. Why is he immune from criticism when he routinely stirs and encourages violence, when he targets a particular group that is subsequently targeted, when he minimizes right wing violence (good people on both sides).

Right wing lone wolf domestic terrorism is the biggest threat to the country yet the Vile One is floating labeling antifa a terrorist group with not a word said about the real threat. You don’t get to poke the hornets nest and then escape blame for poking it.

 
timschochet said:
You wrote “Thanks Donald”. I’m as big a critic of our President as anyone here but that’s terrible. We don’t know what this guy’s motivations were. And suppose he is a huge Trump fan and wanted to kill as many Hispanics as he could find? Even then what you wrote would still be terrible, beyond the pale. It’s the sort of crap that Trump himself pulls all the time. 
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I’m willing to delete my post if you can show me how trumps fomenting of immigrant hatred is an unreasonable thing to bring to the discussion.

 
Glass Joe said:
You think that trumps focus on immigration, and the presidency’s ability to draw focus to pet issues, plays no part in the rabid anti-immigrant fervor in parts of America? 
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Honestly I think he reflects it more than he spreads it. 

But that’s not the point. Unless Trump is going around saying “Go kill immigrants!”, he’s not responsible for this. 

 
Ranethe said:
Oh stop. Why is he immune from criticism when he routinely stirs and encourages violence, when he targets a particular group that is subsequently targeted, when he minimizes right wing violence (good people on both sides).

Right wing lone wolf domestic terrorism is the biggest threat to the country yet the Vile One is floating labeling antifa a terrorist group with not a word said about the real threat. You don’t get to poke the hornets nest and then escape blame for poking it.
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Donald Trump should not be immune from criticism. But he is not to blame for some madman. Sorry but I don’t view things that way. 

 
timschochet said:
Separate issue. We should absolutely discuss gun availability right NOW. We should absolutely discuss the guys motives as soon as they’re confirmed. 

But stuff like “Thanks Donald” is NEVER acceptable. It’s ugly, as hate filled as the stuff he peddles. 
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This is ridiculous milquetoast nonsense.

A president who encourages violence against a segment of people should not have blame laid at his feet? Ridiculous.

 
timschochet said:
If I wanted to kill a lot of people in a short period of time, I would use an assault rifle. Not a knife, not a handgun, not a shotgun. 

I’ve never understood why these weapons are legal. It seems pretty simple to me that they should not be. 
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I thought you said the AR15 is the deadliest? At least you've adjusted your stance to understand that their are many guns that are as effective as the AR15. If reports hold true, the last two shootings were carried out with AK's.

 
Glass Joe said:
By the time the proper amount of time to allow grieving has passed, the next mass shooting will already have taken place. Thus there’s NEVER a proper time for discussion of our gun problem.
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I've had a lot of discussions in the last 2 years. It's only when there is a mass shooting that many of you show your faces here. 

 
KCitons said:
I thought you said the AR15 is the deadliest? At least you've adjusted your stance to understand that their are many guns that are as effective as the AR15. If reports hold true, the last two shootings were carried out with AK's.
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My understanding is that the AR15 is the most popular. 

I don’t care. I want all semi-automatic rifles banned. 

 
timschochet said:
Separate issue. We should absolutely discuss gun availability right NOW. We should absolutely discuss the guys motives as soon as they’re confirmed. 

But stuff like “Thanks Donald” is NEVER acceptable. It’s ugly, as hate filled as the stuff he peddles. 
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This is what I said “correct” to, Evelyn Wood.

”By the time the proper amount of time to allow grieving has passed, the next mass shooting will already have taken place. Thus there’s NEVER a proper time for discussion of our gun problem.”

 
timschochet said:
Donald Trump should not be immune from criticism. But he is not to blame for some madman. Sorry but I don’t view things that way. 
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President calls Mexicans “rapists, murderers, drug dealers, criminals, bad hombres”, makes illegal immigration and appeals to white nationalism the centerpiece of his admin.  

I wonder what might happen? But he’s not to blame. Gotcha.

 
timschochet said:
My understanding is that the AR15 is the most popular. 

I don’t care. I want all semi-automatic rifles banned. 
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Care to unpack the bolded? 

A shore time ago, you wanted AR15's banned because they had been used in some of the deadliest mass shootings. Now you want to ban all semi-automatic rifles. Do you have any other qualifiers? (magazine capacity, pistol grip stock, collapsible stock, etc)

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Are you just talking propagation of guns, or also the desire to use them against fellow humans? There seems to be something horribly compulsive in what is going on, it reminds me of the situation with the lone wolves of AQ/Isis.
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There are a ton of reasons. But the ending of mental health funding and rise of prisons as the #1 mental health provider in the US is a big piece.  

That and the rise in ridiculous sentences making small crimes and large crimes indistinguishable for a perpetrator. The fact that municipalities spend all their money on incarceration for no good reason. And all the while the NRA tells us that guns are the thing that makes us really free. 

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
This is what I said “correct” to, Evelyn Wood.

”By the time the proper amount of time to allow grieving has passed, the next mass shooting will already have taken place. Thus there’s NEVER a proper time for discussion of our gun problem.”
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But that post was in response to identikit’s valid complaint about ugly posts. 

 
KCitons said:
Care to unpack the bolded? 

A shore time ago, you wanted AR15's banned because they had been used in some of the deadliest mass shootings. Now you want to ban all semi-automatic rifles. Do you have any other qualifiers? (magazine capacity, pistol grip stock, collapsible stock, etc)
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No. 

 
Ranethe said:
President calls Mexicans “rapists, murderers, drug dealers, criminals, bad hombres”, makes illegal immigration and appeals to white nationalism the centerpiece of his admin.  

I wonder what might happen? But he’s not to blame. Gotcha.
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Many liberals have made some terrible statements about Trump. It doesn't justify if someone was to react with violence towards Trump. 

People control their own actions. Blaming anyone else is just looking for excuses.

 
Glass Joe said:
Sorry. I believe the president owns responsibility for the implications in his words. It’s part of leadership.
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Tim, you feel trump owns no responsibility for stoking immigrant tensions? Or do you feel that he owns responsibility for stoking tensions but not the actions taken due to those tensions?

 
KarmaPolice said:
Do you put any blame on: internet, social media, news coverage? 
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News coverage for sure. Internet/social media are roughly as responsible for this as for Trump’s election, so... yeah, some. But not as much as (in Trump’s case) voters and the GOP and (in this case) the NRA and prison industrial complex.  

 
Glass Joe said:
Tim, you feel trump owns no responsibility for stoking immigrant tensions? Or do you feel that he owns responsibility for stoking tensions but not the actions taken due to those tensions?
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Perhaps those tensions were there all along. But those people were never represented. 

 
KCitons said:
Many liberals have made some terrible statements about Trump. It doesn't justify if someone was to react with violence towards Trump. 

People control their own actions. Blaming anyone else is just looking for excuses.
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Do you ignore the power of leadership in driving behaviors that otherwise would be unthinkable?

 
KCitons said:
Many liberals have made some terrible statements about Trump. It doesn't justify if someone was to react with violence towards Trump. 

People control their own actions. Blaming anyone else is just looking for excuses.
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What are you even talking about? Nobody has said it would be justified. Of course people control their own actions. People can, and are, still heavily influenced. I have no idea what your point even is.

 
Henry Ford said:
News coverage for sure. Internet/social media are roughly as responsible for this as for Trump’s election, so... yeah, some. But not as much as (in Trump’s case) voters and the GOP and (in this case) the NRA and prison industrial complex.  
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That is changing. 

 
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