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USA Shootings


randall146

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2 minutes ago, KCitons said:

For those that believe Trump carries some of the responsibility for these shootings, what percentage is Trumps and what percentage is the shooters'

 

As a follow up question, who are you blaming the previous mass shootings on before Trump took office? 

Was Sandy Hook Trumps fault too? What about Virginia Tech? Maybe Columbine was because of Trump too?

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3 minutes ago, killface said:

That's an asinine question and you know it

 

Just now, Glass Joe said:

Ask an asinine question, get the asinine response it demanded.

I knew you guys weren't going to answer the question. It was to show that you have no proof for your claims. Therefor, it's simple conjecture. 

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Just now, KCitons said:

 

As a follow up question, who are you blaming the previous mass shootings on before Trump took office? 

Was Sandy Hook Trumps fault too? What about Virginia Tech? Maybe Columbine was because of Trump too?

Those were random shootings by sick people...these kind of shootings are very targeted and are very specific to support the president of the united states view of the world

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2 minutes ago, KCitons said:

 

I knew you guys weren't going to answer the question. It was to show that you have no proof for your claims. Therefor, it's simple conjecture. 

Really?  Really?

It's true, there is no point in engaging with you

You proved your claim by challenging us with math.  Well done

Edited by killface
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3 minutes ago, KCitons said:

 

As a follow up question, who are you blaming the previous mass shootings on before Trump took office? 

Was Sandy Hook Trumps fault too? What about Virginia Tech? Maybe Columbine was because of Trump too?

Every situation is different. Life is nuanced. When immigrants are attacked, you focus on immigrant discussions. Sometimes there’s more to the discussion than a sick individual. Sometimes not.

Edited by Glass Joe
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15 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Both

I wanted to circle back to this.

Your stance on gun control is why I do what I do. You're opinion on regulation changes from day to day. It also changes based on emotion. (see today's reaction). 

I want certain gun regulations. But, I'm not in support of overreaching regulations. 

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2 minutes ago, killface said:

Those were random shootings by sick people...these kind of shootings are very targeted and are very specific to support the president of the united states view of the world

FYI, there all random and all of them are/were sick people. 

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3 minutes ago, Glass Joe said:

Every situation is different. Life is nuanced. When immigrants are attacked, you focus on immigrant discussions. Sometimes there’s more to the discussion than a sick individual. Sometimes not.

With all the mass shootings since Trump took office, how many of those shootings  were focused on immigrants?

 

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Just now, killface said:

You can stop responding to anything i put on here...i really can't engage with this 

 

4 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Call me crazy but I’m not sure KC is going budge one millimeter. 

Neither is killface. 

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41 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

America has always had guns, I don’t understand why this has mostly started happening since the late 90s and why it’s gotten worse and worse and more frequent.

People decided that it was appropriate to kill a group of people who they perceive to be ‘the problem’. It might be classmates, co-workers, political opponents and especially minority groups. Over time a blueprint to carry out these attacks have been developed and the centerpiece is using a gun that can kill people quickly and efficiently. The group of people killed changes, the motivation of the shooter changes but the weapon remains the same. Nothing ever changes.

Yes it’s cold the be talking about this while people are still fighting for their lives but it’s needed. These are no longer isolated incidents, this is a war where one side is ambushed just for who they are.

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3 minutes ago, KCitons said:

I wanted to circle back to this.

Your stance on gun control is why I do what I do. You're opinion on regulation changes from day to day. It also changes based on emotion. (see today's reaction). 

I want certain gun regulations. But, I'm not in support of overreaching regulations. 

I’ve pretty much always been in favor of banning assault rifles. I don’t find that to be overeaching. 

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Just now, Biff84 said:

People decided that it was appropriate to kill a group of people who they perceive to be ‘the problem’. It might be classmates, co-workers, political opponents and especially minority groups. Over time a blueprint to carry out these attacks have been developed and the centerpiece is using a gun that can kill people quickly and efficiently. The group of people killed changes, the motivation of the shooter changes but the weapon remains the same. Nothing ever changes.

Yes it’s cold the be talking about this while people are still fighting for their lives but it’s needed. These are no longer isolated incidents, this is a war where one side is ambushed just for who they are.

Nope. I’m told there is only randomness to whom is shot.

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It's interesting experiment to see how many people here are not interested in having a conversation. They are simply looking for people that agree with them. It's evident when posters tell me that they no longer want to have a conversation. I've not attacked anyone personally, and I've answered anything that anyone has asked. 

Bottom line is, you don't like my opinion because it's different from yours. So you choose to not to speak to me. Odd behavior for a group of adults. 

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3 minutes ago, Glass Joe said:

Really? Good to know we can stop looking for underlying aspects in shooting aftermaths! This will be a nice saving to our government.

Life is so simple in his world.  It's only the fault of the shooter and guns for everyone

In his world hitler had zero responsibility in germany because he just talked about it.  Everything else that happened after that was just a bunch of random events by sick people

 

Maybe you can get out your calculator and tell me the exact percentage hitler was responsible

Edited by killface
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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I’ve pretty much always been in favor of banning assault rifles. I don’t find that to be overeaching. 

You said that you wanted to ban all semi automatic rifles without regards to any other factors. 

That encompasses a lot of guns that didn't qualify during the last assault weapons ban.

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1 minute ago, KCitons said:

It's interesting experiment to see how many people here are not interested in having a conversation. They are simply looking for people that agree with them. It's evident when posters tell me that they no longer want to have a conversation. I've not attacked anyone personally, and I've answered anything that anyone has asked. 

Bottom line is, you don't like my opinion because it's different from yours. So you choose to not to speak to me. Odd behavior for a group of adults. 

You are difficult to engage with because you make nonsensical stances - like a shooting victim being a random consequence. It’s impossible to establish a baseline commonality when you’re coming from such odd positions.

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Some of you guys are talking over each other. President Trump is not responsible for what this guy did. The NRA is not responsible for this guy did. Full stop. 

But- the NRA is responsible for making it easier for this guy to do what he did. And, if it’s indeed true that this guy was motivated by anti illegal immigrant hatred (and we have no idea at this point) then Trump is partly responsible for the sort of rhetoric that makes people like this more likely. Or at least, this is a question that bears further discussion. 

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2 minutes ago, Glass Joe said:

Nope. I’m told there is only randomness to whom is shot.

Yep. You were told by killface. 

The hypocrisy is amazing. Two people can say the exact same thing. But only one of them is called out for it. 

10 minutes ago, killface said:

Those were random shootings by sick people...these kind of shootings are very targeted and are very specific to support the president of the united states view of the world

 

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1 minute ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

No one is going to budge on this topic

If I was Joe, I’d nuke this thread and not allow threads like this one

Theyre pointless

I don't think they are pointless because at some point the outrage that innocent people get slaughtered shopping is going to get politicians to move on the subject

Edited by killface
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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Some of you guys are talking over each other. President Trump is not responsible for what this guy did. The NRA is not responsible for this guy did. Full stop. 

But- the NRA is responsible for making it easier for this guy to do what he did. And, if it’s indeed true that this guy was motivated by anti illegal immigrant hatred (and we have no idea at this point) then Trump is partly responsible for the sort of rhetoric that makes people like this more likely. Or at least, this is a question that bears further discussion. 

Nobody is saying he is responsible as far as i can see...but if the manifesto is true then yes it's very easy to draw a direct path from the rhetoric of the president to the action.  It's not longer random when there is political motivation

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4 minutes ago, killface said:

Life is so simple in his world.  It's only the fault of the shooter and guns for everyone

In his world hitler had zero responsibility in germany because he just talked about it.  Everything else that happened after that was just a bunch of random events by sick people

Now who's putting words into other peoples mouths? 

I never said everything was a bunch of random events. But, the shooter is the one that chooses where and when it happens. And he chooses who he points the gun at. 

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3 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Yep. You were told by killface. 

The hypocrisy is amazing. Two people can say the exact same thing. But only one of them is called out for it. 

 

Ok i'll respond to this one because you are using my quote out of context.  If the manifesto is true then this isn't random

The other ones, i don't know if they are random but they certainly didn't appear to have a political opinion that drove them but as the other guy correctly pointed out there are nuances to everyone.  It's worth establishing correlation in every case and in some cases there isn't any

Edited by killface
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18 minutes ago, msommer said:

There are some that only live to deflect, obfuscate and gaslight

I say “Trump creates an atmosphere conducive to violence, encourages violence against targeted populations” (paraphrasing).

Guy comes back with “Are you really suggesting that Trump wants people to commit mass murder against Hispanics in this country”?

I mean wtf? How do you get that from what I said? It’s pointless talking to those people, there’s some kind of English language barrier or something. Not a single ounce of intellectual honesty from the lot of them. 

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1 minute ago, KCitons said:

You said that you wanted to ban all semi automatic rifles without regards to any other factors. 

That encompasses a lot of guns that didn't qualify during the last assault weapons ban.

I know. I anticipated that response. 

If there was to be a serious ban that seemed likely, I would engage in a study of these weapons before offering my opinion. I’m sure there are some that don’t deserve to be banned and others that do, and there are specifications that make sense. And there also might end up being contradictions that never make sense. 

But as you know, I don’t believe any kind of ban will ever take place, so what you’re reading is just me venting about the type of weapons in general which I personally don’t think should be legal. I don’t feel the need at this point to be more specific than that. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I know. I anticipated that response. 

If there was to be a serious ban that seemed likely, I would engage in a study of these weapons before offering my opinion. I’m sure there are some that don’t deserve to be banned and others that do, and there are specifications that make sense. And there also might end up being contradictions that never make sense. 

But as you know, I don’t believe any kind of ban will ever take place, so what you’re reading is just me venting about the type of weapons in general which I personally don’t think should be legal. I don’t feel the need at this point to be more specific than that. 

The problem is your response is intelligent and thoughtful.  this is a black and white argument

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3 minutes ago, killface said:

Nobody is saying he is responsible as far as i can see...but if the manifesto is true then yes it's very easy to draw a direct path from the rhetoric of the president to the action.  It's not longer random when there is political motivation

Not even close to a direct path. An indirect path certainly. But as KCitons and others have correctly pointed out, a direct path would involve Trump advocating the murder of innocent people. 

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1 minute ago, Ranethe said:

I say “Trump creates an atmosphere conducive to violence, encourages violence against targeted populations” (paraphrasing).

Guy comes back with “Are you really suggesting that Trump wants people to commit mass murder against Hispanics in this country”?

I mean wtf? How do you get that from what I said? It’s pointless talking to those people, there’s some kind of English language barrier or something. Not a single ounce of intellectual honesty from the lot of them. 

Right. But we don't take into account any other things that create an atmosphere of violence.

Careful with the "those people" comments. I'm being as honest as I can here. 

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1 minute ago, dozer said:

It’s an interesting experiment to count up all your responses to KC that you delete before posting because you don’t want to be suspended.

KC drives me crazy sometimes but lets not forget that we’re all on the same side here- there’s not a single person here who wanted this to happen. 

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I know. I anticipated that response. 

If there was to be a serious ban that seemed likely, I would engage in a study of these weapons before offering my opinion. I’m sure there are some that don’t deserve to be banned and others that do, and there are specifications that make sense. And there also might end up being contradictions that never make sense. 

But as you know, I don’t believe any kind of ban will ever take place, so what you’re reading is just me venting about the type of weapons in general which I personally don’t think should be legal. I don’t feel the need at this point to be more specific than that. 

Fair enough. Was it that difficult to answer? I now know your stance. 

It does make me wonder how the rest of the posters feel. Those that just showed up today to have a discussion. Do they want to ban everything? Certain things? Or are they just venting due to the latest shooting and they don't expect any type of ban either?

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