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randall146

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Just now, Cowboysfan8 said:

No one is going to budge on this topic

If I was Joe, I’d nuke this thread and not allow threads like this one

Theyre pointless

You’re unfortunately correct. If your mind didn’t change when 20 kindergarteners were executed, nothing is going to change it. 

You guys argue back and forth about mental health and there being too many guns. And BOTH are correct. There are many mentally ill people in this country, and there’s enough guns where every single citizen could own one. A deadly combination. Both are huge problems. But the bigger problem is money. There’s no money to be made in trying to fix this crisis. Contrarily, there is a mint to be made in keeping status quo. We all know that the NRA has too much power and influence in the political landscape of this country. We also all know that the healthcare system is completely broken. I don’t know what the answer is, but until BOTH are addressed by people lining their pockets on BOTH sides (yeah I said it) this will not only continue, but it will continue to get worse. Thoughts and prayers aren’t working folks. It’s time to try something else. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

KC drives me crazy sometimes but lets not forget that we’re all on the same side here- there’s not a single person here who wanted this to happen. 

That's the nicest thing you've said to me in some time. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

KC drives me crazy sometimes but lets not forget that we’re all on the same side here- there’s not a single person here who wanted this to happen. 

I hope you're right about this.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I know. I anticipated that response. 

If there was to be a serious ban that seemed likely, I would engage in a study of these weapons before offering my opinion. I’m sure there are some that don’t deserve to be banned and others that do, and there are specifications that make sense. And there also might end up being contradictions that never make sense. 

But as you know, I don’t believe any kind of ban will ever take place, so what you’re reading is just me venting about the type of weapons in general which I personally don’t think should be legal. I don’t feel the need at this point to be more specific than that. 

There’s only one question - is it designed to kill lots of people quickly?  I know that expands the conversation well beyond what are considered “assault rifles.”  Good. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

America has always had guns, I don’t understand why this has mostly started happening since the late 90s and why it’s gotten worse and worse and more frequent.

This is a more interesting discussion point.

@timschochet what are your thoughts on this? We all have the same typical talking points we've made over and over and over.

Anybody else feel free to chime in.

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Just now, SFBayDuck said:

There’s only one question - is it designed to kill lots of people quickly?  I know that expands the conversation well beyond what are considered “assault rifles.”  Good. 

 

 

 

We started this conversation last week. What is the definition of quickly?

It's already been discussed that all guns are designed to kill. Whether that's people, animals or targets. 

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9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Some of you guys are talking over each other. President Trump is not responsible for what this guy did. The NRA is not responsible for this guy did. Full stop. 

But- the NRA is responsible for making it easier for this guy to do what he did. And, if it’s indeed true that this guy was motivated by anti illegal immigrant hatred (and we have no idea at this point) then Trump is partly responsible for the sort of rhetoric that makes people like this more likely. Or at least, this is a question that bears further discussion. 

And yet you just got done scolding people for saying “Thanks Trump”, doing your “full stop”, “period”, middle of the road, take no stance, sit the fence stuff.

Which is it? Or we just talking a new world record for changing your mind after speaking authoritatively about something?

Dang, perhaps you could qualify this a little bit more.

 

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15 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Death toll 19 with at least 40 injured.

My wife travels to El Paso a couple times/year for work. She stays in El Paso and travels each day into Juarez. She has several friends-work friends-who live in Mexico and often cross the border to shop. She has stayed at their houses in Mexico and a few have visited our house in NY when they have to travel up here. She is pretty worried (though the odds are obviously low that the dead/injured are anyone she knows).

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19 minutes ago, killface said:

I don't think they are pointless because at some point the outrage that innocent people get slaughtered shopping is going to get politicians to move on the subject

So your thoughts are that a thread on a magic football board on gun violence is going to get politicians off their ###?

Good luck sir 

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12 minutes ago, Man In The Box said:

You’re unfortunately correct. If your mind didn’t change when 20 kindergarteners were executed, nothing is going to change it. 

You guys argue back and forth about mental health and there being too many guns. And BOTH are correct. There are many mentally ill people in this country, and there’s enough guns where every single citizen could own one. A deadly combination. Both are huge problems. But the bigger problem is money. There’s no money to be made in trying to fix this crisis. Contrarily, there is a mint to be made in keeping status quo. We all know that the NRA has too much power and influence in the political landscape of this country. We also all know that the healthcare system is completely broken. I don’t know what the answer is, but until BOTH are addressed by people lining their pockets on BOTH sides (yeah I said it) this will not only continue, but it will continue to get worse. Thoughts and prayers aren’t working folks. It’s time to try something else. 

Mostly agree

 

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1 minute ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

So your thoughts are that a thread on a magic football board on gun violence is going to get politicians off their ###?

Good luck sir 

This is a weird take.  Don’t talk about it because talking about it isn’t enough all in its own?

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

This is a weird take.  Don’t talk about it because talking about it isn’t enough all in its own?

What's weirder is that there can't be any differing opinions while talking about it either. 

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22 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

People decided that it was appropriate to kill a group of people who they perceive to be ‘the problem’. It might be classmates, co-workers, political opponents and especially minority groups. Over time a blueprint to carry out these attacks have been developed and the centerpiece is using a gun that can kill people quickly and efficiently. The group of people killed changes, the motivation of the shooter changes but the weapon remains the same. Nothing ever changes.

Yes it’s cold the be talking about this while people are still fighting for their lives but it’s needed. These are no longer isolated incidents, this is a war where one side is ambushed just for who they are.

I remember a while back during the aftermath of Christchurch right wingers made a point of raising a Muslim attack on Christians in a town in Mali (iirc). My point is not about RW’ers, it’s about how much it just looks like sectarian or political violence of the sort we see in Serbia and Nigeria and other such places. This thing with the young men is reminiscent of AQ/Isis lone wolf attacks and suicide bombers. I don’t think the counter examples of the Sanders supporter in DC or whatever socialist (we’ve lost track right?) helps, if it’s two ‘sides’ it’s even worse. Inevitably as happens in other countries yes the ‘other side’ starts to feel they must act in self defense. 

Ted Kazinski killed or injured 26 people over a 17 year stretch and he’s a blip on the screen now.

This SOB apparently drove a long way which reminds me of the incidents in Baton Rouge, Dallas and Garland. These people had time to cool off and they didn’t, they were on a mission. 

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

This is a weird take.  Don’t talk about it because talking about it isn’t enough all in its own?

Maybe he's saying that it's the most any of us will actually do about this.  On what most everyone is saying is a hugely tragic and saddening issue.

Besides vote (most likely).

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3 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

Plus you would think a mall in El Paso would be conceal carry central. Dozens of would be hero’s there didn’t get the job done under pressure. Huh. 

Or, maybe people aren't walking around with guns as much as people think. 

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4 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

Plus you would think a mall in El Paso would be conceal carry central. Dozens of would be hero’s there didn’t get the job done under pressure. Huh. 

But where’s the security? These malls make loads of money. Is there no one with a gun and a badge around in West Texas?

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2 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

This is a weird take.  Don’t talk about it because talking about it isn’t enough all in its own?

Nah, read his post then mine again

If you don’t get my point maybe I didn’t express my thoughts well enough. I’m not the wordsmith you and ditkalesswonders are, but I’ll try again.

Joe having to deal with a thread like this where folks get heated and insult each other is pointless and is not going to get politicians to change laws

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7 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I hope so. I’ll believe it when I see it. 

For starters, politicians are no longer concerned about an "F" rating from the NRA. They were it as a badge of courage. 

For the first time, probably ever, there are anti-gun organizations that are able to counter the NRA efforts. Those groups have just cropped up over the last few years. And they're already becoming a force. Odds are, they will only get stronger. 

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As others have mentioned, the shooter posted his manifesto to 4chan/8chan and he's yet another on the pile with Utoya and Christchurch. Rhetoric about "The Great Replacement", Hispanics are the invaders, says "this isn't racism" and yet later decries "race mixing" as a "betrayal." Very anti-corporate, anti-immigrant, pro-environment, like the Christchurch kid. Definitely seems to be a rising ideology among the young white men that get radicalized in those online communities. I've been talking about this as a coming problem for literally years, very sad to see it come to this.

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28 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Death toll 19 with at least 40 injured.

I am willing to listen to a lot of things back and forth on this issue, but when I read stuff like this, I just don't see how somebody can say that the types and number of guns we have access to isn't front and center as far as issues that need to be talked about and addressed.   Maybe the "they will just use knives" crowd have more of a leg to stand on if it's a home invasion or a domestic attack where it's 2-3 people dead, but for situations like this people can't honestly believe that the numbers would be the same if they had to use different weapons.  

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11 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Really? It’s his board, he can do whatever he wants 

It’s happened on other boards 🤷‍♂️

We can’t discuss hot women, you don’t think he can ban discussion on something else?

Sure, he could ban it, but I would think it was silly if he did.  Not sure why you would want the topic banned too.  

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1 minute ago, KarmaPolice said:

Sure, he could ban it, but I would think it was silly if he did.  Not sure why you would want the topic banned too.  

Doesn’t matter to me if it’s banned or not , did I say I wanted it banned? Show me.

making stuff up is s bad look

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28 minutes ago, Man In The Box said:

You’re unfortunately correct. If your mind didn’t change when 20 kindergarteners were executed, nothing is going to change it. 

You guys argue back and forth about mental health and there being too many guns. And BOTH are correct. There are many mentally ill people in this country, and there’s enough guns where every single citizen could own one. A deadly combination. Both are huge problems. But the bigger problem is money. There’s no money to be made in trying to fix this crisis. Contrarily, there is a mint to be made in keeping status quo. We all know that the NRA has too much power and influence in the political landscape of this country. We also all know that the healthcare system is completely broken. I don’t know what the answer is, but until BOTH are addressed by people lining their pockets on BOTH sides (yeah I said it) this will not only continue, but it will continue to get worse. Thoughts and prayers aren’t working folks. It’s time to try something else. 

Again, statistically people with a mental illness are FAR more likely to hurt themselves than others.  I don't think they are both correct with the same implications to the mass shooting issue.  

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8 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I remember a while back during the aftermath of Christchurch right wingers made a point of raising a Muslim attack on Christians in a town in Mali (iirc). My point is not about RW’ers, it’s about how much it just looks like sectarian or political violence of the sort we see in Serbia and Nigeria and other such places. This thing with the young men is reminiscent of AQ/Isis lone wolf attacks and suicide bombers. I don’t think the counter examples of the Sanders supporter in DC or whatever socialist (we’ve lost track right?) helps, if it’s two ‘sides’ it’s even worse. Inevitably as happens in other countries yes the ‘other side’ starts to feel they must act in self defense. 

Ted Kazinski killed or injured 26 people over a 17 year stretch and he’s a blip on the screen now.

This SOB apparently drove a long way which reminds me of the incidents in Baton Rouge, Dallas and Garland. These people had time to cool off and they didn’t, they were on a mission. 

Hate and extremism is a bipartisan issue. People on the right are committing a lot of these shootings now but would it surprise you at all if a Trump rally is targeted at some point?

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4 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am willing to listen to a lot of things back and forth on this issue, but when I read stuff like this, I just don't see how somebody can say that the types and number of guns we have access to isn't front and center as far as issues that need to be talked about and addressed.   Maybe the "they will just use knives" crowd have more of a leg to stand on if it's a home invasion or a domestic attack where it's 2-3 people dead, but for situations like this people can't honestly believe that the numbers would be the same if they had to use different weapons.  

Your best bet is to ignore the “they’ll just use knives or baseball bats” crowd. Your words are falling on deaf ears. Their own kids could get gunned down and their stance still won’t change. 

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41 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

No one is going to budge on this topic

If I was Joe, I’d nuke this thread and not allow threads like this one

Theyre pointless

 

3 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Doesn’t matter to me if it’s banned or not , did I say I wanted it banned? Show me.

making stuff up is s bad look

I guess nuking the thread and not allowing another like it isn't banning it?

Interesting that you are still posting in a pointless thread too.  

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1 minute ago, Biff84 said:

Hate and extremism is a bipartisan issue. People on the right are committing a lot of these shootings now but would it surprise you at all if a Trump rally is targeted at some point?

The level of security whereever Trump is is probably the only thing thats prevented this from happening 

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Just now, Man In The Box said:

Your best bet is to ignore the “they’ll just use knives or baseball bats” crowd. Your words are falling on deaf ears. Their own kids could get gunned down and their stance still won’t change. 

I wish I could if I thought it was just a VERY small subset of the population.  That argument seems to come up way too often for me to believe that is the case though.  

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2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

CNN reporting that the police didn’t even fire a shot, the bastard surrendered as soon as they showed up, just like the killer at Sandy Hook.

???  Adam Lanza shot himself.

ETA:  did you mean the kid in Charleston?

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am willing to listen to a lot of things back and forth on this issue, but when I read stuff like this, I just don't see how somebody can say that the types and number of guns we have access to isn't front and center as far as issues that need to be talked about and addressed.   Maybe the "they will just use knives" crowd have more of a leg to stand on if it's a home invasion or a domestic attack where it's 2-3 people dead, but for situations like this people can't honestly believe that the numbers would be the same if they had to use different weapons.  

Simple answer, these shooters are evil. If I believe what people here are saying, then the evil is developed through things that Trump has said. I know that isn't true of all mass shooters. But, perhaps it's true of recent ones. If that's the case, then the mass shootings should go down once Trump leaves office. We know that isn't going to happen. It's not a matter of them using knives instead of guns. It's that the evil still lives. It will find a way to manifest itself. I'm more concerned with fixing the underlying problem. 

As to the discussion about home invasions and weapons. That was a very specific conversation in another thread. It's no different than any number of threads here that discuss what is the best X. 

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90% of the public supports universal background checks, and closing the gun show loophole, but it can’t get passed. But yeah, we’re talking past each other. good lord.

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