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USA Shootings


randall146

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1 minute ago, KCitons said:

This is false. 

What's the percentage up to of people that want universal background checks? 80%. There are gun owners in that group. 

Incorrect.  Gun people are against any more gun restrictions and think the solution is more good guys with guns.  If you don't know this you need to read other, more gun friendly, forums. 

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10 hours ago, Man In The Box said:

If you’re wondering why most here either have you on ignore or refuse to engage with you, this is one of the reasons (the other is your ridiculous analogies). Mental health isn’t the only reason and you know it. You’ll do whatever argumentative gymnastics it takes to protect your rights to own guns. We are no more mentally ill than other nations, but we do have more guns than anyone. It’s the main issue. If you were willing to admit that, maybe more people around here would take you seriously. 

I've never said we don't have more guns than anyone else. 

I have said that we are unique as a nation. Many months ago, I said the reason we have this problem is due to unbridled freedom. In a way, that encompasses the "more guns" than anyone. We don't impede on anyone's freedoms here. You are free to spread hate, you are free to sow dissent, you are free to own things that cause harm to other people. 

I've said we should be changing other amendments to squash the spread of hate. Others would rather concentrate on changing the 2nd Amendment. It's two different approaches to the same problem. People don't engage in this conversation with me because they are just like me. They have a narrow vision on how to correct this problem. They think they are right and I am wrong. I think the same of them. 

I have said over and over that I am looking for a win-win compromise that reduces mass shootings. Based on the amount of traffic in this thread over the last week, I would assume that is what everyone wants? For every compromise I've suggested (magazine capacity of 6, caliber limits, universal background checks, tax on guns and alcohol for mental health programs) there are 10x the responses that just say ban guns. But, we know it's not that simple. I've given a bunch of reasons why. Those are just ignored and they continue with ban the guns. Who's really having an honest conversation? 

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10 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

Incorrect.  Gun people are against any more gun restrictions and think the solution is more good guys with guns.  If you don't know this you need to read other, more gun friendly, forums. 

There are gun people here. I'm for universal background checks. As are a lot of other gun owners here. 

I could probably find some hateful rhetoric on different boards as well. It doesn't mean that applies to all people.

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9 hours ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Tell you what.  I’m going to use the 5A like you use the 2A.

The govt is depriving me of my property without due process.

Is there anything in the Constitution about the right to fly? 

Good luck with that. Make sure you take video to share.

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Just now, KCitons said:

There are gun people here. I'm for universal background checks. As are a lot of other gun owners here. 

I could probably find some hateful rhetoric on different boards as well. It doesn't mean that applies to all people.

Agreed.  But have you seen those videos from Trump rallies?  That kind of rhetoric is found on Trump supporting boards.  Those boards universally believe that more guns are needed so the good guy with a gun can kill the bad guy with a gun after the bad guys "only" killed a few people. 

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11 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

were there these types of shootings in the 50's?  

Also how come  there isnt the same outrage at homicide rates in inner cities?

 

I think the UT tower shooting was one of the first ones like this.

It was an enormous story. And more people were killed in El Paso yesterday than by the tower shooter.

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3 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

Agreed.  But have you seen those videos from Trump rallies?  That kind of rhetoric is found on Trump supporting boards.  Those boards universally believe that more guns are needed so the good guy with a gun can kill the bad guy with a gun after the bad guys "only" killed a few people. 

Two things in your post. You're taking examples of the extremes and disregarding a large group of other gun owners (hunters). There are nearly 14 million hunters that go out into the woods each year. The average number of deaths (usually accidental) is around 75. That's a very small percentage. And they weren't accidental. Total number of gun owners is somewhere around 50 million. I don't agree with the stats used to compile, but mass shootings are somewhere around 200 per year. Again, very small averages. To hear people say they are afraid to go the mall or a movie theater is ridiculous. They have a better chance of dying in a car accident or getting hit by lighting. 

A good guy with a gun is what stops a bad guy with a gun. Usually, it's the police. I don't think people should carry a gun so that they can jump in and stop a mass shooter. I don't conceal carry myself, mainly because I think the potential need is minuscule. Trying to stop a mass shooter on your own would open up too many other liabilities. Getting shot yourself by LE or shooting an innocent person by mistake would not make it worth it. The first response to an active shooter should be to flee. If you can't flee, then shelter in place. If you are found, then fight. At the point that you have to fight, that is where a gun would be effective. 

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10 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Just off the top of my head.

Charles Starkweather.  (from my home state). Maybe not a mass shooter. 

 

 

1 minute ago, whoknew said:

 

I think the UT tower shooting was one of the first ones like this.

It was an enormous story. And more people were killed in El Paso yesterday than by the tower shooter.

That is the rare example. There were not mass shootings like this happening with any regularity. 

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12 hours ago, KCitons said:

Just off the top of my head.

Charles Starkweather.  (from my home state). Maybe not a mass shooter. 

 

One?  So perhaps something has changed in our society.  I'm sure Im going to be ridiculed but I think it's God.  The farther we get away as a nation from our Christian beliefs and morals the worse this nation will become/ has become.

But alas Just a few pages ago someone here referred to God 'the invisible man in the sky'.  

I'd also like to throw out there a question:  What would reduce gun crimes more, more laws or more fathers in the homes?

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2 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

One?  So perhaps something has changed in our society.  I'm sure Im going to be ridiculed but I think it's God.  The farther we get away as a nation from our Christian beliefs and morals the worse this nation will become/ has become.

But alas Just a few pages ago someone here referred to God 'the invisible man in the sky'.  

I'd also like to throw out there a question:  What would reduce gun crimes more, more laws or more fathers in the homes?

Europe has become even less Christian than the US and they don't have these issues

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1 minute ago, boots11234 said:

One?  So perhaps something has changed in our society.  I'm sure Im going to be ridiculed but I think it's God.  The farther we get away as a nation from our Christian beliefs and morals the worse this nation will become/ has become.

But alas Just a few pages ago someone here referred to God 'the invisible man in the sky'.  

I'd also like to throw out there a question:  What would reduce gun crimes more, more laws or more fathers in the homes?

How did believing in god help violence during the crusades, slavery, etc?

Pretty sure it's not the country believing less in god. 

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12 hours ago, timschochet said:

1. I don’t think assault rifles were that prolific in the 1950s. 

2. Because they’re rates and not mass shootings. 

1)  Not sure but i believe you could legally own tompson machine guns in the 50's.  Though it was extremely expensive and not widely owned.

2)  Still sad none the less.

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Just now, boots11234 said:

They never had the freedoms, the gun freedoms we have either.

True but that is to acknowledge that guns are a major part of the problem and that knives, bombs and cars would never replace what guns do

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8 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

At least for now, White House reporters are not expected to see President Trump today until he departs his Bedminster golf course after 4 pm.

 

 

Leadership!

Almost like instead of saying he would be too busy to golf he meant he would be too busy golfing to do much presidenting

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

True but that is to acknowledge that guns are a major part of the problem and that knives, bombs and cars would never replace what guns do

I highly doubt law enforcement would even try to enforce a confiscation. Too worried about getting shot.  Compliance would be near zero. There would absolutely be a revolt.  It is our right, just as important as free speech.  Heck it guarantees free speech to some. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Two things in your post. You're taking examples of the extremes and disregarding a large group of other gun owners (hunters). There are nearly 14 million hunters that go out into the woods each year. The average number of deaths (usually accidental) is around 75. That's a very small percentage. And they weren't accidental. Total number of gun owners is somewhere around 50 million. I don't agree with the stats used to compile, but mass shootings are somewhere around 200 per year. Again, very small averages. To hear people say they are afraid to go the mall or a movie theater is ridiculous. They have a better chance of dying in a car accident or getting hit by lighting. 

A good guy with a gun is what stops a bad guy with a gun. Usually, it's the police. I don't think people should carry a gun so that they can jump in and stop a mass shooter. I don't conceal carry myself, mainly because I think the potential need is minuscule. Trying to stop a mass shooter on your own would open up too many other liabilities. Getting shot yourself by LE or shooting an innocent person by mistake would not make it worth it. The first response to an active shooter should be to flee. If you can't flee, then shelter in place. If you are found, then fight. At the point that you have to fight, that is where a gun would be effective. 

Good guys with guns haven’t been stopping the bad guys with guns :rolleyes:

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Just now, boots11234 said:

I highly doubt law enforcement would even try to enforce a confiscation. Too worried about getting shot.  Compliance would be near zero. There would absolutely be a revolt.  It is our right, just as important as free speech.  Heck it guarantees free speech to some. 

 

 

I didn't say anything about changing the law, just acknowledging the role of guns

Just now, KCitons said:

Are you sure about that?

Am I mistaken on the statistics? Are the knife murder rates and mass murder with knife rates in Europe on par with our gun crimes?

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1 minute ago, Sammy3469 said:

Good guys with guns haven’t been stopping the bad guys with guns :rolleyes:

Did you read what I wrote?

 

13 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Two things in your post. You're taking examples of the extremes and disregarding a large group of other gun owners (hunters). There are nearly 14 million hunters that go out into the woods each year. The average number of deaths (usually accidental) is around 75. That's a very small percentage. And they weren't accidental. Total number of gun owners is somewhere around 50 million. I don't agree with the stats used to compile, but mass shootings are somewhere around 200 per year. Again, very small averages. To hear people say they are afraid to go the mall or a movie theater is ridiculous. They have a better chance of dying in a car accident or getting hit by lighting. 

A good guy with a gun is what stops a bad guy with a gun. Usually, it's the police. I don't think people should carry a gun so that they can jump in and stop a mass shooter. I don't conceal carry myself, mainly because I think the potential need is minuscule. Trying to stop a mass shooter on your own would open up too many other liabilities. Getting shot yourself by LE or shooting an innocent person by mistake would not make it worth it. The first response to an active shooter should be to flee. If you can't flee, then shelter in place. If you are found, then fight. At the point that you have to fight, that is where a gun would be effective. 

 

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13 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

One?  So perhaps something has changed in our society.  I'm sure Im going to be ridiculed but I think it's God.  The farther we get away as a nation from our Christian beliefs and morals the worse this nation will become/ has become.

But alas Just a few pages ago someone here referred to God 'the invisible man in the sky'.  

I'd also like to throw out there a question:  What would reduce gun crimes more, more laws or more fathers in the homes?

What's changed?.... Our country's gun possession has grown to 50% of all the world's guns.... largely because god believing people buy so many guns. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

I didn't say anything about changing the law, just acknowledging the role of guns

Am I mistaken on the statistics? Are the knife murder rates and mass murder with knife rates in Europe on par with our gun crimes?

They do bombs and trucks over there

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2 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

They do bombs and trucks over there

Yes but the murder rates are much lower. Canada as well. We don't hear of mass knivings or bombings in Canada or Europe nearly as often as have these attacks here now. And those countries are less Christian than we are so I think your premise was flawed. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

I didn't say anything about changing the law, just acknowledging the role of guns

Am I mistaken on the statistics? Are the knife murder rates and mass murder with knife rates in Europe on par with our gun crimes?

Sorry. I took your statement as criminals wouldn't use a knife instead of a gun. Which is happening in Europe. 

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14 minutes ago, Workhorse said:

Mass shootings per decade in the US:

1900s : 0

1910s: 2

1920s: 2

1930s: 9

1940s: 8

1950s: 1

1960s: 6

1970s: 13     <---------  SO, what started the change, and why did it accelerate?  

1980s: 32

1990s: 42

2000s: 28

There have now been 22 mass shootings so far THIS YEAR.

This is an epidemic.

 

 

Also, 28 for the 00s seem low.  How many from this decade so far?

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12 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

One?  So perhaps something has changed in our society.  I'm sure Im going to be ridiculed but I think it's God.  The farther we get away as a nation from our Christian beliefs and morals the worse this nation will become/ has become.

But alas Just a few pages ago someone here referred to God 'the invisible man in the sky'.  

I'd also like to throw out there a question:  What would reduce gun crimes more, more laws or more fathers in the homes?

Well less violent video games would help

A better mental health system and reporting of people with issues

Social media monitoring of suspicious posts could be better

Stronger family life, fathers

ESPN reported that 62 percent of youths don’t play sports, what are they doing

laws help but we have to stop the violence before it happens, not punish after

 

 

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6 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Are you sure about that?

Are you honestly trying to argue that someone who wants to kill a lot of people could do even a fraction of the damage with a knife that they can do with a gun?

If so, then why does our military and police rely exclusively on guns?

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17 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

One?  So perhaps something has changed in our society.  I'm sure Im going to be ridiculed but I think it's God.  The farther we get away as a nation from our Christian beliefs and morals the worse this nation will become/ has become.

But alas Just a few pages ago someone here referred to God 'the invisible man in the sky'.  

I'd also like to throw out there a question:  What would reduce gun crimes more, more laws or more fathers in the homes?

Here's your answer.

2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Another one?  JFC!

 

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Just now, KCitons said:

Sorry. I took your statement as criminals wouldn't use a knife instead of a gun. Which is happening in Europe. 

Ok, I think you just caught the middle of a conversation. Boots was saying these mass killings were because we aren't as religious as we used to be but I pointed out Europe is less religious and yet has less murder.

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7 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

I highly doubt law enforcement would even try to enforce a confiscation. Too worried about getting shot.  Compliance would be near zero. There would absolutely be a revolt.  It is our right, just as important as free speech.  Heck it guarantees free speech to some. 

 

 

Nobody’s talking about confiscation. But you don’t have a right to own an assault rifle. 

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Also, 28 for the 00s seem low.  How many from this decade so far?

The assault rifle ban was in full effect at the beginning of the 00s decade. It expired mid decade, and production of assault rifles began in mass. 

Edited by Politician Spock
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1 minute ago, James Daulton said:

Are you honestly trying to argue that someone who wants to kill a lot of people could do even a fraction of the damage with a knife that they can do with a gun?

If so, then why does our military and police rely exclusively on guns?

Keep reading. 

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Just a reminder that Trump and the GOP cut funding for a program called CVE - Countering Violent Extremism. They re-allocated the money from white domestic extremism and focused totally on foreign, middle eastern, Muslim extremism. They did so contrary to the data that showed that far right terrorism was a much greater domestic threat.

Bake a pie, eat a pie.

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19 minutes ago, Workhorse said:

Mass shootings per decade in the US:

1900s : 0

1910s: 2

1920s: 2

1930s: 9

1940s: 8

1950s: 1

1960s: 6

1970s: 13

1980s: 32

1990s: 42

2000s: 28

There have now been 22 mass shootings so far THIS YEAR.

This is an epidemic.

 

 

I 'm going to throw out another theory. War and/or drugs?

Things seemed to ramp up at the end of the Vietnam war. We know the effects that war has on our veterans. 

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Newtown was the last time I cried from national news (9/11 and Challenger being the other times). Like others here have mentioned, the lack of any change after that event kind of numbed me as well.

But this is ridiculous. We are a sick society and regardless of whether there are other factors involved we need to start taking action now with common sense gun laws. There needs to be more discussion and implementation of solutions to this problem by our leaders and less platitudes.

Also, music sometimes helps me deal with emotions: Link

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