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USA Shootings (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter randall146
- Start date
The General
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I consistently engage @Stealthycat because he offers honest responses IMO. I have never felt trolled by him. I have been frustrated by Stealthy, but that happens when two people on different pages debate ideas.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
so all the other shootings - the vast majority- just kinda ignore them ?
I want to target ALL these situations and try to stop them ALL
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Interesting. I was trying to be thorough with that but even a FoxNews story posted 5 hours ago said he was. I promise I tried.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/02/15/school-shooter-has-ties-white-nationalist-group-participated-paramilitary-training
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Well spending $7 billion to put armed officers in every school is about the worst way possible to do that
Stealthycat
Footballguy
this is true
imagine if they'd used bombs, or poison's of some kind etc
we need to stop ALL shootings
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
keeping things the way they are is your other option
look, people are not giving their guns up. No way, not happening, 100% not
so reasonably now, lets talk about how we can tackle this.
You are saying that people will not pay for security for their kids. Ok, that might be but dang people sure don't care about their kids :(
So now where does that leave us? Hope the shooters read the gun free signs and walk away ?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
18 sounds better, it gets to people emotional, irrational side and you gotta capitalize on tragedies to get agenda's passed
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
My 13 year old daughter had no school today or tomorrow thank goodness, but on Tuesday her mom and I both got texts that there was a report of a threat against her school and that it had not been substantiated as legit, but police presence at the building was being escalated as we got that text. It was all we could do to not run to the school .and get her out
Our high school here has had two threats against it in the past 7-10 days--including one where two expelled kids were posting an Instagram video of them standing in front of the school at night with their fingers imitating guns saying tomorrow we bring the real ones. Over 600 students called in sick the next day and both kids were arrested.
All this in just one week
Our district has armed police officers in all the schools and you have to show your ID to enter the buildings. Kids are required to show ids to board their buses.
We are living in the middle of a perfect ##### storm. Too many guns, too many disenfranchised kids from broken homes, a social media platform for any crazy fool to post nonsense, more and more kids with severe mental health issues that the schools can't handle. I could go on and on, but something needs to change.
Our high school here has had two threats against it in the past 7-10 days--including one where two expelled kids were posting an Instagram video of them standing in front of the school at night with their fingers imitating guns saying tomorrow we bring the real ones. Over 600 students called in sick the next day and both kids were arrested.
All this in just one week
Our district has armed police officers in all the schools and you have to show your ID to enter the buildings. Kids are required to show ids to board their buses.
We are living in the middle of a perfect ##### storm. Too many guns, too many disenfranchised kids from broken homes, a social media platform for any crazy fool to post nonsense, more and more kids with severe mental health issues that the schools can't handle. I could go on and on, but something needs to change.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I thought we just agreed on some things that were different? I am trying to defend you but this post is making me regret it.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
never said they were legal, rimfires are not in any state as far as I know
but poachers choice is a .22
and back in the old days, .22's were what people used for everything
just my belief is all, nobody has ever kept track as far as I know
The General
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
assuming 7 billion is the cost, its the best money we've spent all year and its the single bestest way IMO to deter shootings
how much do we send to the UN? to other countries? to take care of 10 million illegals in the US?
$7 billion is a cheap price for out kids safety IMO
Stealthycat
Footballguy
its not "easy" that's why they're not used often in school shootings or real life gun crime
Stealthycat
Footballguy
that don't affect honest law abiding citizens and their constitutional rights? I'm with you, lets talk about them and do them
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I am sorry your family went through this. It's awful.My 13 year old daughter had no school today or tomorrow thank goodness, but on Tuesday her mom and I both got texts that there was a report of a threat against her school and that it had not been substantiated as legit, but police presence at the building was being escalated as we got that text. It was all we could do to not run to the school .and get her out
Our high school here has had two threats against it in the past 7-10 days--including one where two expelled kids were posting an Instagram video of them standing in front of the school at night with their fingers imitating guns saying tomorrow we bring the real ones. Over 600 students called in sick the next day and both kids were arrested.
All this in just one week
Our district has armed police officers in all the schools and you have to show your ID to enter the buildings. Kids are required to show ids to board their buses.
We are living in the middle of a perfect ##### storm. Too many guns, too many disenfranchised kids from broken homes, a social media platform for any crazy fool to post nonsense, more and more kids with severe mental health issues that the schools can't handle. I could go on and on, but something needs to change.
This is just commonplace now at schools. Some teens and parents need to be bear a lot of responsibility here as well. If a kid or your kid does some kind of prank school threat, it's a real cry for help. Our society has a lot of hard changes to make.
The General
Footballguy
Is this not correct: Florida has a three-day waiting period for handgun purchases. But anyone without a felony record, domestic abuse conviction, or a handful of other exceptions — such as a commitment to a mental institution — can walk into a gun store, wait a few minutes to clear a background check, and walk out with an AR-15 -style rifle, magazines and ammunition.
The General
Footballguy
Sorry AR15 guys, we live in a society. Some compromises are going to have to be made.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I'm trying to catch up, this is a very fast forum with responses etc on this topic and today
my bullet points are
- increase armed guards/teachers even at schools
- focus on the mental health of people like these shooters whom often have red flags
- don't allow such people to pass background checks
- I'd consider compound type schools
- a better way for authorities to act when like the FBI is notified of someone saying they're going to shoot up schools, those need investigated
Stealthycat
Footballguy
equivalent of making cars that don't go over 20 mph and affecting 99.9 % of the people who drive safe in an effort to stop those who chose to not drive safe
cobalt_27
Footballguy
It’s not just a mental health problem, it’s an assault weapons problem. Assault weapons need to be banned.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
easy to purchase if you have $600 cash, $200 for the extra mags, $200 for a case of ammo etc and then easy to carry around on your hip and conceal ???
The General
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
That will never happen in our lifetimes. Accordingly, I’m looking for ways to reduce the number of deaths. I believe an AR15 ban would accomplish that while still allowing for people to have guns for protection and sport.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I know, because you want everyone to be able to drive 70 mph, to get where they're going and you trust them not to do stupid stuff with their cars and the 35,000 dead people very year? its just acceptable so that we can have cars in our society
i don't mean YOU you ... its just how society thinks The General
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The General
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
and I believe armed guards would prove way more effective
those who would use an AR15 downgrade to a semi-auto shotgun or any number of semi-auto weapons and go about their evil deeds
you think not having an AR15 would change someones mind like that ?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I like everything but the bolded. The italicized is vague.
Also, we agreed on within a certain age allow school expulsions, suspensions to impact the background check.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Texas Church: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
randall146
Footballguy
A couple notes on the mental institution issue:
1) It's really rare for someone to be "adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution." Each of these require a court order. So a guy can be completely insane and go in and out of mental hospitals all the time, but as long as he never fights the hospitalization, a court will never rule, and he'll never be banned from gun ownership.
2) There's no database of people that have been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution. So it's illegal for them to purchase or possess a gun, but the routine ATF background check won't catch it if they don't volunteer the information on the gun purchase form.
3) Also, HIPPA
1) It's really rare for someone to be "adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution." Each of these require a court order. So a guy can be completely insane and go in and out of mental hospitals all the time, but as long as he never fights the hospitalization, a court will never rule, and he'll never be banned from gun ownership.
2) There's no database of people that have been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution. So it's illegal for them to purchase or possess a gun, but the routine ATF background check won't catch it if they don't volunteer the information on the gun purchase form.
3) Also, HIPPA
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
install a 7 day wait on AR15's
would that be better?
21 day wait .... 60 day wait ........ and this Florida guy? he'd get it anyway. No waiting periods would have stopped him
had his mental health records been added, had he not lied and said he had no mental issues, THOSE would have stopped him right ?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Not trying to be a #### but this idea you have that the best way to deal with this situation is to turn public spaces into compounds feels like you are just digging into an bad argument.
Total madness.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
the compounds were an idea I'm open to is all
the FBI and authorities can do better putting the red flags together - twice there were warned that we know of already on this guy, and they didn't act in any way that we know of so far?
yes, expelled students losing their rights to own a gun a few years is reasonable to me
The General
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I agree
but I want to focus on stopping the bulk if all school shooting by having armed guards and even teachers and make it where shooters are as apt to go to schools as a police station ... which is rare.
TheMagus
Footballguy
It's really sort of mind boggling, although not shocking, how he keeps arguing over and over that putting armed security guards at schools is the answer to this when there was actually an armed security guard at the school that lost 17 lives yesterday.
It's like the Uranium One stuff. He'll just post some bombshell and then a bunch of people will come in and pick apart everything that is wrong with the argument and get no response or acknowledgment that there is such a thing as facts. Then a few days later the same posts start showing up, like the entire previous dialogue didn't exist, and it is rinse repeat rinse repeat rinse repeat.
I got sucked in last night too because it is hard to not respond when you see some of the absurdity being posted. But this whole conversation has been overtaken by gibberish and honestly, it's not really all that productive. The vast majority of the population does not feel this way and more educated gun rights advocates can at least put together arguments that make a modicum of sense. I think about a quote I once read and for the life of me I can't remember the author or the source, but the gist is that there is an elephant who starts out trying to pick up a pea, and when he realizes he can't he becomes obsessed and loses all sense of rationality and dignity in the process. Stop trying to pick up the pea - it is unimportant.
It's like the Uranium One stuff. He'll just post some bombshell and then a bunch of people will come in and pick apart everything that is wrong with the argument and get no response or acknowledgment that there is such a thing as facts. Then a few days later the same posts start showing up, like the entire previous dialogue didn't exist, and it is rinse repeat rinse repeat rinse repeat.
I got sucked in last night too because it is hard to not respond when you see some of the absurdity being posted. But this whole conversation has been overtaken by gibberish and honestly, it's not really all that productive. The vast majority of the population does not feel this way and more educated gun rights advocates can at least put together arguments that make a modicum of sense. I think about a quote I once read and for the life of me I can't remember the author or the source, but the gist is that there is an elephant who starts out trying to pick up a pea, and when he realizes he can't he becomes obsessed and loses all sense of rationality and dignity in the process. Stop trying to pick up the pea - it is unimportant.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
A really easy thing we could do is stop making these shooter legends. The media could, at zero cost, stop releasing names and pictures of shooters.
Knowing their name and their face is of NO VALUE to the reader/viewer. All it does is give the shooter the fame he seeks.
This certainly won’t stop all mass shootings. It may only stop a couple/ or one. But, I am certain that some might second guess doing it if they are just going to rot away anonymously in prison for the rest of their life.
Do this now! Start now!
Knowing their name and their face is of NO VALUE to the reader/viewer. All it does is give the shooter the fame he seeks.
This certainly won’t stop all mass shootings. It may only stop a couple/ or one. But, I am certain that some might second guess doing it if they are just going to rot away anonymously in prison for the rest of their life.
Do this now! Start now!
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The General
Footballguy
The original point was that it's easy to get this AR15. You said it was wasn't.
Agreed it's way too easy?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I know. Your heart is in the right place. We just don’t agree that more weapons make us safer.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I don't think you should own a car that goes more than 20 mph because you cannot trust people to drive faster than that.
An AR15 is no more dangerous and arguably less dangerous than some other weapons. Yes, the high cap clips are an advantage to a wacko shooter.
But AGAIN ... ban all AR15 type guns and you've impacted 1% of total gun crimes and maybe like 2% of school shootings.
I want arming schools and hopefully reduce them WAY more than that. Stats show gun free zones are targeted - for reasons. Lets stop giving these wacko's easy targets !
way too often these shooters are not even old enough to HAVE guns anyway
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