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21 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

because you wouldn't give up anything - but you'd demand literally tens of millions of American's to give up something to literally impact what, 200-300 incidents of violent people using semi-auto weapons annually ?

or ... we could focus on getting these violent people out of society and the tens of millions of guns owners wouldn't be impacted at all

 

You have a point here.  I have no desire to own a gun and perhaps don't understand why it would be such a big deal to ban assault rifles.  What is your solution to stop or limit the mass shootings?  How can we identify these crazy people?  Do you agree better background checks are needed at a minimum?

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It's TOTALLY the title of the thread.  Here's why:  Over the last year or so I finally figured out that we don't actually care about gun violence.  When I say "we" I mean everyone, generally.  But als

So I have never gotten too deep into gun conversations here, mostly because guns are as close to religion in the US as you can get. I'm decidedly pro 2nd Amendment, but I also recognize that was

I would love to see civil and criminal liability attached to gun owners as well as shooters. If your gun is used in the commission of a crime, you're responsible unless you can show that the gun was o

20 minutes ago, miapug said:

You have a point here.  I have no desire to own a gun and perhaps don't understand why it would be such a big deal to ban assault rifles.  What is your solution to stop or limit the mass shootings?  How can we identify these crazy people?  Do you agree better background checks are needed at a minimum?

most of the mass shooters have known mental issues - most violent people who kill others have criminal histories or drug histories. Right ? 

https://time.com/5757243/texas-church-shooter-motive/

 

why was this guy walking around society to begin with? yes, I know its not politically correct thing to talk/think/advocate bringing back insane asylums, but these people .... they're dangers to themselves and to others and suggesting banning guns/certain type of guns from 70 million people to stop the few hundred crazies that mass shoot every year? I think that's crazy and a complete failure of an idea. I know people would say its infringing on rights but when you're a threat to yourself and others? that's why I am ok with red flag laws IF DONE RIGHT ........... violent people/mentally ill people just cannot be allowed to roam society hurting others. 

I'd truly crack down on drugs too - I'm so sick of our drug crisis, its existed since I was a kid, there is no "war on drugs" :(

We could venture into whole new realms of how to get the above done ........... but I fully believe that in any other examples, nobody would support removing things from 70 million people in hopes of stopped a few hundred. 

of the 12,000 +/- violent acts that use guns to kill every year, only a few hundred are semi-auto rifles. Almost all of them are handguns. This focusing on semi-auto rifles is ... well, crazy

 

I'll add this - since schools starting arming themselves, school shootings have went WAY down too.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Interesting article about gun suicides in the US - some has already been mentioned in this thread but there are interesting comparisons made about how other countries have had a suicide problem and partially solved it

The silent epidemic of America's problem with guns

Quote

Part of the problem with guns is that they are by far the most fatal means. There are three statistics which together paint a stark picture of the role of firearms in American suicides: about 85% of people who use a gun will die; about 95% of people who use another means will survive; and about 90% of those who survive will not go on to try again.

UK:

Quote

History tells us that reducing access to certain means of suicide can have a dramatic effect on suicide rates. In the early 20th Century, the UK began heating domestic ovens with coal gas, which contained lethal levels of carbon monoxide. Suicide rates spiked, particularly among women, and by the 1950s more than half of all suicides in the UK — about the same proportion as firearm suicides in the US today — involved a coal gas oven. Then in 1958 the government began, incidentally, to replace coal gas with a cleaner natural gas which was virtually free of carbon monoxide, and by the early 1970s gas oven suicides fell to zero and the overall national suicide rate fell by a third. The so-called "coal gas story" became a touchstone for suicide prevention experts worldwide.

Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Israel, more UK:

Quote

There are other examples. In the early 1990s, Sri Lanka had one of the highest suicide rates in the world, driven by the ready availability of toxic pesticides. Two laws passed in 1995 and 1998 restricted access to a deadly class of pesticides and by 2005 the suicide rate had fallen by half.

In Switzerland, army reforms in 2003 halved the number of soldiers and the knock-on reduction in the availability of firearms brought about a sharp reduction in suicides among men. Similarly in Israel, in 2006, the army prohibited younger soldiers from taking their service weapons home at the weekend and the measure led to 40% fall in suicides. And legislation passed in the UK in 1998 outlawed the sale of painkillers in bottles, meaning anyone wanting a large quantity had to push them out from blister packs one by one. That seemingly small obstacle had a significant effect — painkiller overdoses fell by 43% over the next decade and overdose-related liver transplants by 61%.

Similar reductions have been observed in the US after the installation of access barriers that prevent people jumping from bridges, and studies tend to show little or no "substitution" effect — ie increases in the number of suicides at nearby bridges. In San Francisco, where dozens of people die every year after jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, a five-year, $76 million metal suicide barrier, paid for by the state, is scheduled for completion by 2023.

Let's not talk about the elephant in the room, though. It's too soon

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ten-year-old in Houston, Texas accidentally shot by babysitter

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Harris County Sherriff Ed Gonzales told the news site the weapon was kept unsecured at home.

"The female indicates that she retrieved that weapon to take pictures, and in the course of taking pictures the gun went off and struck the child," he added.

"Very tragic situation, we see this quite a bit."

I'm sure she's just a very violent person. Surely, nothing could have prevented this tragedy.

Edited by msommer
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Molston shooter - was armed with two handguns

keep passing those AR15 ban's though .... :(    

 

"The female indicates that she retrieved that weapon to take pictures,'   ban cameras? ban taking picture? ban stupid ? 

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  • 3 weeks later...

guns and ammo are being bought like crazy right now

I'm wondering if any left leaning, previously anti-gun people are changing their minds and seeing a need for self defense ?

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

guns and ammo are being bought like crazy right now

I'm wondering if any left leaning, previously anti-gun people are changing their minds and seeing a need for self defense ?

I'm strongly considering stocking up on some ammo.  I would only be buying ammo for my .22lr and shotguns.  I don't really have much for shotgun shells so I could use some stock any way.  It would be hunting purposes but know that I could use them for defense if absolutely needed.  I'm not going to be buying an AR-15 or anything like that.

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12 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

guns and ammo are being bought like crazy right now

I'm wondering if any left leaning, previously anti-gun people are changing their minds and seeing a need for self defense ?

I am not planning on shooting the corona virus.

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9 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

I am shocked at all the AR15 and AK47 "out of stock" ammo and guns online

I bet there are 10 million new gun owners today than there were 3 weeks ago !

I went to my local farm supply store yesterday and bought some ammo for my .22 and shotguns.  There was one person at the counter in the process of buying a gun and another group of guys looking at ammo and possibly a gun as well.  I overheard them talking to the working about everything going on and she said it's been crazy.  Guns and ammo sales went up drastically.

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9 hours ago, bagger said:

I am not planning on shooting the corona virus.

nobody else is either

 

27 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I overheard them talking to the working about everything going on and she said it's been crazy.  Guns and ammo sales went up drastically.

yes - and that was my questions / thoughts ... I wonder how many new gun owners have been produced because of this? How many people who thought weeks ago that guns were no use now realize just how quickly a situation turns and how valuable they really are for self defense scenarios?

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

nobody else is either

 

yes - and that was my questions / thoughts ... I wonder how many new gun owners have been produced because of this? How many people who thought weeks ago that guns were no use now realize just how quickly a situation turns and how valuable they really are for self defense scenarios?

Probably a good amount.  Those would be people who were always on the fence.  The people who have always been strongly against guns are still not going to buy any guns... yet.

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

if they do they'll not tell anyone :)

 

I still don't have an AR-15 or any high powered rifle and don't plan on getting one.  I'll just stick with my .22 and shotguns for now.  I have them more for shooting animals, self defense is secondary.

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1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I went to my local farm supply store yesterday and bought some ammo for my .22 and shotguns.  There was one person at the counter in the process of buying a gun and another group of guys looking at ammo and possibly a gun as well.  I overheard them talking to the working about everything going on and she said it's been crazy.  Guns and ammo sales went up drastically.

Well, if my anecdotal facebook feed is any indication, it's my gun-loving friends that are openly buying more weapon and ammo - and then posting memes about how they'll shoot anybody who tries to loot their homes and how they'll win if a real-life Purge breaks out. 

And, again anecdotally, I'm a guy who thinks owning a gun is -EV (in other words I'm not philosophically opposed to guns and don't want them banned - I just think it's a poor decision to own one) and it hasn't occurred to me at all to change my mind on that. 

So, my presumption (which admittedly isn't based on real reliable data) is that it's mostly prior gun-owners buying up all the guns and ammo. 

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26 minutes ago, Zow said:

Well, if my anecdotal facebook feed is any indication, it's my gun-loving friends that are openly buying more weapon and ammo - and then posting memes about how they'll shoot anybody who tries to loot their homes and how they'll win if a real-life Purge breaks out. 

And, again anecdotally, I'm a guy who thinks owning a gun is -EV (in other words I'm not philosophically opposed to guns and don't want them banned - I just think it's a poor decision to own one) and it hasn't occurred to me at all to change my mind on that. 

So, my presumption (which admittedly isn't based on real reliable data) is that it's mostly prior gun-owners buying up all the guns and ammo. 

This is accurate.  The majority is going to be from people who already own guns.  You're anecdotal experience is the same as mine, my Facebook feed is exactly the same and I am friends with a lot of outdoorsmen.

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1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Probably a good amount.  Those would be people who were always on the fence.  The people who have always been strongly against guns are still not going to buy any guns... yet.

Not true is all cases..my BIL who is a anti gun chemical engineer just got his CCW and also bought a hunting rifle.  Of course he did not tell me or anyone but my SIL told us. 

I texted him  a few days ago and said 'Hey Jeff..I heard you joined the NRA"  The guy has zero sense of humor and just said "Did not join NRA, just want some protection if needed" 

They have a place in Florida they drive to a couple time a year and my SIL said he wants to carry on the long trips my themselves just in case. What concerns me about people like him is that he could be disarmed in 5 seconds.

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3 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Not true is all cases..my BIL who is a anti gun chemical engineer just got his CCW and also bought a hunting rifle.  Of course he did not tell me or anyone but my SIL told us. 

I texted him  a few days ago and said 'Hey Jeff..I heard you joined the NRA"  The guy has zero sense of humor and just said "Did not join NRA, just want some protection if needed" 

They have a place in Florida they drive to a couple time a year and my SIL said he wants to carry on the long trips my themselves just in case. What concerns me about people like him is that he could be disarmed in 5 seconds.

There are always going to be exceptions.

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58 minutes ago, Zow said:

Well, if my anecdotal facebook feed is any indication, it's my gun-loving friends that are openly buying more weapon and ammo - and then posting memes about how they'll shoot anybody who tries to loot their homes and how they'll win if a real-life Purge breaks out. 

The one I've been seeing lately is the Office meme with Jim smiling through the blinds and the caption is "Gun Owners watching non gun owners stockpile apocalypse supplies for them."  Kinda sounds like they're the ones planning to do the looting.  Funny stuff right there.  

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3 minutes ago, parrot said:

The one I've been seeing lately is the Office meme with Jim smiling through the blinds and the caption is "Gun Owners watching non gun owners stockpile apocalypse supplies for them."  Kinda sounds like they're the ones planning to do the looting.  Funny stuff right there.  

I have to admit, some of my friends seem to want some sort of confrontation or violent civil unrest (so, I presume, they can tell people like me that I was wrong). 

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11 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

There are always going to be exceptions.

Of course, but my BIL has never hunted or shot a gun in his life until he had to take the testing. He is the kind of guy an intruder would take the gun away from.

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1 minute ago, Zow said:

I have to admit, some of my friends seem to want some sort of confrontation or violent civil unrest (so, I presume, they can tell people like me that I was wrong). 

Some people want to live out the Walking Dead scenario.  There's a major appeal to it for some.

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Just now, Da Guru said:

Of course, but my BIL has never hunted or shot a gun in his life until he had to take the testing. He is the kind of guy an intruder would take the gun away from.

Everyone has to start somewhere with a gun.  He just waited till now.

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

Of course, but my BIL has never hunted or shot a gun in his life until he had to take the testing. He is the kind of guy an intruder would take the gun away from.

He may still be. A rifle seems like a poor choice for self defense, particularly on the road

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23 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

A rifle is still a very handy gun to have.  Works great for hunting and can be used for long range defense.

Let's not open that discussion again

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Unbridled Freedom. I've been saying it for some time now. We are seeing it again with a new killer.

It's what keeps us from protecting ourselves, from ourselves. We are seeing it again with the Covid 19 pandemic. People believe they have the right to be free. To move around freely. To assemble freely. And to own guns.

Taking away a defined freedom from Americans is not an easy process. And not one that is accepted or complied with by the entire population uniformly. I see people going to stores, restaurants, beaches, etc. They lack regard to the well being of others, similar to those that choose to own a gun. People are free to choose what's best for themselves over what's best for others.

I wonder how many posters here (that chastise gun owners) are not social distancing or self isolating.  

 

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On 3/22/2020 at 11:17 AM, beef said:

Are gun prices going up?  I got a few to sell.

I have read reports on Reddit of folks selling guns on consignment at gun shops for a pretty good premium, like $700 for a Glock 19.  Might be worth looking into if you are serious.

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On 3/22/2020 at 7:15 AM, KCitons said:

Unbridled Freedom. I've been saying it for some time now. We are seeing it again with a new killer.

It's what keeps us from protecting ourselves, from ourselves. We are seeing it again with the Covid 19 pandemic. People believe they have the right to be free. To move around freely. To assemble freely. And to own guns.

Taking away a defined freedom from Americans is not an easy process. And not one that is accepted or complied with by the entire population uniformly. I see people going to stores, restaurants, beaches, etc. They lack regard to the well being of others, similar to those that choose to own a gun. People are free to choose what's best for themselves over what's best for others.

I wonder how many posters here (that chastise gun owners) are not social distancing or self isolating.  

 

Hi KC. 

Hope all is well, especially in these times, you haven't been round much.

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On 3/23/2020 at 3:36 PM, BigSteelThrill said:

Hi KC. 

Hope all is well, especially in these times, you haven't been round much.

Hi BST, 

I'm well, although a little bored. I've only been out twice in the past 3 weeks. (once to the bank, and once to my MIL's empty rental house). Hope you are doing well also. I'll pop in from time to time to browse the threads, but I've found other places to share my opinions without all the faux utopia censorship. 

Everyone stay safe. Stay in touch with those important to you. I'd also suggest that you document and save memories from this time. This is a significant moment in history that you will remember for the rest of your life and share with future generations.

Edited by KCitons
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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

Hi BST, 

I'm well, although a little bored. I've only been out twice in the past 3 weeks. (once to the bank, and once to my MIL's empty rental house). Hope you are doing well also. I'll pop in from time to time to browse the threads, but I've found other places to share my opinions without all the faux utopia censorship. 

BST got some forced utopia vacay time currently. For pressing a like/sad/thinking/laughing/love/thanks button, not even a reply, to a post apparently. 

Edited by Endowed
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2 hours ago, Endowed said:

BST got some forced utopia vacay time currently. For pressing a like/sad/thinking/laughing/love/thanks button, not even a reply, to a post apparently. 

Wait what?  Really?  Someone actually got suspended for a like?

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2 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Wait what?  Really?  Someone actually got suspended for a like?

There was a certain poster the laughing responded to just about anything that didn't downplay the coronavirus. It was pointed out to the moderators. BST may have been swept up in the fallout, that would be my guess

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1 minute ago, msommer said:

There was a certain poster the laughing responded to just about anything that didn't downplay the coronavirus. It was pointed out to the moderators. BST may have been swept up in the fallout, that would be my guess

Wow...i mean if there os a fallout for laughing they missed a few.  Seems bad of we are getting moderated for the like feature.

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22 hours ago, Endowed said:

BST got some forced utopia vacay time currently. For pressing a like/sad/thinking/laughing/love/thanks button, not even a reply, to a post apparently. 

:shrug:

He walks a fine line with a lot of his posts.  It’s not surprising he’s getting a TO.  I can’t imagine this is his first.

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I guess we are seeing why some people stockpile ammo. With some stores being deemed non essential, gun owners are finding it difficult to buy any ammo. Much less stockpile it. 

The 2nd Amendment is going to get a boost once we get past this pandemic. 

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8 minutes ago, KCitons said:

I guess we are seeing why some people stockpile ammo. With some stores being deemed non essential, gun owners are finding it difficult to buy any ammo. Much less stockpile it. 

The 2nd Amendment is going to get a boost once we get past this pandemic. 

Just curious as someone who has never even touched a gun, what do you consider a stockpile of ammo? If you own a basic handgun, how much ammo do you think is good amount to have to ensure you can defend yourself? 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Just curious as someone who has never even touched a gun, what do you consider a stockpile of ammo? If you own a basic handgun, how much ammo do you think is good amount to have to ensure you can defend yourself? 

Three months ago, I would have said that 300 rounds per gun was an acceptable amount. Today, I think that number is much, much higher. perhaps 1000 rounds per gun. That also would depend on the gun. A single shot or revolver would go through less rounds. Where a semi automatic would go through more. The same way Vietnam soldiers fired more rounds than WWI soldiers. 

We don't know what the next 6 months hold. Remember the conversations a few years ago about the impossible task of standing up against our mighty military? That same military could get decimated by an invisible virus. Could that weakness leave us susceptible to attacks from other countries? Maybe. If that happened, how much ammo would you want?

The other scenario is the deterioration of police forces across the country. We are starting to see it in NY. We could see pockets of civil unrest as things progressively get worse. If there is no police to protect you, and a percent of the population is without basic necessities because their $1200 stimulus check didn't go far enough, how much ammo would you want?

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5 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Just curious as someone who has never even touched a gun, what do you consider a stockpile of ammo? If you own a basic handgun, how much ammo do you think is good amount to have to ensure you can defend yourself? 

I shoot quite a bit so it may skew what is typical, but I re -order ammo when I get down to 1,000 rounds of 5.56, 9mm, or 45acp and at 2,000 of 22lr.  These are what I shoot most of.  I probably have 200-300 for my various hunting rifles on hand at any time as well.  I don't consider this stockpiling though.  If I was stockpiling it would be around 10K rounds of the common stuff and 50K of 22lr.  It just doesn't take much space to store that much ammo and for the last couple years it has been ridiculously cheep to buy.  

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