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Dynasty: RB Royce da 6’0 Freeman, Denver Broncos


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4 hours ago, TheFanatic said:

Good timing...

I've been inebriated for about 5 days straight now. I'm happy to talk football though.

Freeman looked good on that 24 yard touchdown run. But with a statline of 5 attempts / 26 yards, you have to wonder what happened on those 4 other attempts for 2 yards.

He doesn't do anything terrific during the run except being a 230 pound back facing defenders a fraction of his size. On his touchdown run, he was untouched. 3 Redskins voluntarily take themselves out of the play.

When it's him against a defensive back, he's getting into the end zone. That's his biggest attribute at the moment, scoring touchdowns.

He's starting to remind me of a younger Legarette Blount.

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Objection, Your Honor. Speculation.

Stop the back and forth shots against each other here and keep the discussion 100% on the players.  

Case Keenum had 51 pass attempts. Lindsay and Freeman had 17 carries.  Doesn't seem like a winning formula.

2 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

I've been inebriated for about 5 days straight now. I'm happy to talk football though.

Freeman looked good on that 24 yard touchdown run. But with a statline of 5 attempts / 26 yards, you have to wonder what happened on those 4 other attempts for 2 yards.

He doesn't do anything terrific during the run except being a 230 pound back facing defenders a fraction of his size. On his touchdown run, he was untouched. 3 Redskins voluntarily take themselves out of the play.

When it's him against a defensive back, he's getting into the end zone. That's his biggest attribute at the moment, scoring touchdowns.

He's starting to remind me of a younger Legarette Blount.

:eek:

How dare you sir

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23 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

I've been inebriated for about 5 days straight now. I'm happy to talk football though.

Freeman looked good on that 24 yard touchdown run. But with a statline of 5 attempts / 26 yards, you have to wonder what happened on those 4 other attempts for 2 yards.

He doesn't do anything terrific during the run except being a 230 pound back facing defenders a fraction of his size. On his touchdown run, he was untouched. 3 Redskins voluntarily take themselves out of the play.

When it's him against a defensive back, he's getting into the end zone. That's his biggest attribute at the moment, scoring touchdowns.

He's starting to remind me of a younger Legarette Blount.

That's the second time you've taken out his longest run. Stats look soooooo much better if we could just freely manipulate them like that. Too bad we really can't. 

Freeman's entire stat line is 15 carries for 84 yards (5.6 YPC) and three TD's

Your guy has this as a stat line in the preseason:

9 carries for 33 yards (which is right about his career average of 3.6 YPC), 1 catch for 10 yards and no TD's. I understand why taking out the longest runs is easy for Freeman, but not so much for Booker who's longest runs of the preseason are 4, 6 and 4 yards. Why didn't Book bust off a 20 yard run in any of the first preseason games? If it's so easy for a chump like Freeman to do it, why didn't Booker do it. 

And then we have Phil Lindsay who just might take away the 3rd down duties from Booker. 13 carries for 70 yards (5.38 YPC) and 4 catches for 58 yards and a TD!?! Watch out, Book. This might become the Freeman/Lindsay show before we know it. 

Oh, and I happen to really like Freeman's biggest attribute. That's kind of important in Fantasy Football as well as real football. 

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Just now, TheFanatic said:

That's the second time you've taken out his longest run. Stats look soooooo much better if we could just freely manipulate them like that. Too bad we really can't. 

Freeman's entire stat line is 15 carries for 84 yards (5.6 YPC) and three TD's

Your guy has this as a stat line in the preseason:

9 carries for 33 yards (which is right about his career average of 3.6 YPC), 1 catch for 10 yards and no TD's. I understand why taking out the longest runs is easy for Freeman, but not so much for Booker who's longest runs of the preseason are 4, 6 and 4 yards. Why didn't Book bust off a 20 yard run in any of the first preseason games? If it's so easy for a chump like Freeman to do it, why didn't Booker do it. 

And then we have Phil Lindsay who just might take away the 3rd down duties from Booker. 13 carries for 70 yards (5.38 YPC) and 4 catches for 58 yards and a TD!?! Watch out, Book. This might become the Freeman/Lindsay show before we know it. 

Oh, and I happen to really like Freeman's biggest attribute. That's kind of important in Fantasy Football as well as real football. 

I didn't take out his longest run. In fact, that's the only 1 of his 5 carries I described in detail.

Although, there's not much to talk about on his other 4 where he gets tackled near the line of scrimmage.

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1 minute ago, Stuart Ullman said:

I didn't take out his longest run. In fact, that's the only 1 of his 5 carries I described in detail.

Although, there's not much to talk about on his other 4 where he gets tackled near the line of scrimmage.

"But with a statline of 5 attempts / 26 yards, you have to wonder what happened on those 4 other attempts for 2 yards." That's taking out his longest run. That's ignoring the longest run and focusing the attention over at other four runs. That's exactly what you did. 

Start of the game. Defenders are fresh. It happens. It happens to the best in the league. A lot of backs, particularly big back, feast on tired, battered and bruised defenses in the fourth quarter. That's where they bust their long runs. Freeman has done it twice early. Oh, that is if we are allowed to talk about those. I forget how this works exactly. Are we allowed to talk about the long TD runs?

How come Booker's longest carry was only 6 yards? He often split time on the same series' as Freeman. Against the same defenders. With the same personnel on offense. How come he didn't bust off a 20 yarder? 

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So we are saying Royce looks a lot like Saquon Barkley then?  Most of his production from one long run, and stopped near the line, give or take 3 yards, the rest of the time?

I will take that.  That’s kind of typical of most RBs not named David Johnson...

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2 minutes ago, Arodin said:

So we are saying Royce looks a lot like Saquon Barkley then?  Most of his production from one long run, and stopped near the line, give or take 3 yards, the rest of the time?

I will take that.  That’s kind of typical of most RBs not named David Johnson...

I haven't seen any Saquan Barkley tape.

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16 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

"But with a statline of 5 attempts / 26 yards, you have to wonder what happened on those 4 other attempts for 2 yards." That's taking out his longest run. That's ignoring the longest run and focusing the attention over at other four runs. That's exactly what you did. 

Start of the game. Defenders are fresh. It happens. It happens to the best in the league. A lot of backs, particularly big back, feast on tired, battered and bruised defenses in the fourth quarter. That's where they bust their long runs. Freeman has done it twice early. Oh, that is if we are allowed to talk about those. I forget how this works exactly. Are we allowed to talk about the long TD runs?

How come Booker's longest carry was only 6 yards? He often split time on the same series' as Freeman. Against the same defenders. With the same personnel on offense. How come he didn't bust off a 20 yarder? 

It's just playing devil's advocate. Do we only look at success or do we look for red flags during the process?

 

In regards to Booker not busting a 20 yard run, that's not really his forte and he's received significantly less carries than Freeman during preseason.

So you have a less explosive back with less carries.

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2 hours ago, Stuart Ullman said:

I've been inebriated for about 5 days straight now. I'm happy to talk football though.

Freeman looked good on that 24 yard touchdown run. But with a statline of 5 attempts / 26 yards, you have to wonder what happened on those 4 other attempts for 2 yards.

He doesn't do anything terrific during the run except being a 230 pound back facing defenders a fraction of his size. On his touchdown run, he was untouched. 

2 of those carries the interior ol was pushed into the backfield by iirc daron Payne and Preston Smith for a total loss of maybe 5 yards. No fault of the rb. 

As far as the td run, Freeman was hit by 3 defenders in the open field.

Booker was predictably pedestrian outside of one run of about 11 yards which was called back due to matt paradis tackling payne, which opened the lane. 

I habe no stock in either of these guys. Freeman went higher than I was willing to go and as a Bronco homer i have no interest in Booker because quite frankly i think he isn't very good. I've taken Lindsay in every draft otoh

But having watched preseason there is no competition as far as who is the better rb between Booker or Freeman or between Booker and Lindsay for that matter. If you are banking on Booker paying off at any price you are hoping for irrational coaching or an injury imo

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

@Buffaloes, you have any local live drafts with fellow Broncos homers? If so, are homers expecting a lot from Freeman, and thus taking him around the 20th or so RB?

Yes, he went at about rb16 this past weekend by a non Bronco fan :shrug:

 

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1 hour ago, Stuart Ullman said:

It's just playing devil's advocate. Do we only look at success or do we look for red flags during the process?

 

In regards to Booker not busting a 20 yard run, that's not really his forte and he's received significantly less carries than Freeman during preseason.

So you have a less explosive back with less carries.

But he's the veteran starter who will keep Freeman off the field. Why is he getting so many fewer carries? 

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2 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

But he's the veteran starter who will keep Freeman off the field. Why is he getting so many fewer carries? 

My assumption is that it's because it's preseason and they want to evaluate the new talent at RB. Give him more reps.

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Also, @TheFanatic. Found this nugget on Rotoworld. Booker played more snaps than Freeman.

"Booker's stat line would have looked much better, but he had a 16-yard gain called back by a hold. More importantly, he played 15 of Case Keenum's 33 snaps, five more than Royce Freeman. The duo was about even on snaps prior to the two-minute drive, but it is still clear Booker will have at worst a passing-down role early in the season. Aug 24 - 10:20 PM

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17 hours ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Also, @TheFanatic. Found this nugget on Rotoworld. Booker played more snaps than Freeman.

"Booker's stat line would have looked much better, but he had a 16-yard gain called back by a hold. More importantly, he played 15 of Case Keenum's 33 snaps, five more than Royce Freeman. The duo was about even on snaps prior to the two-minute drive, but it is still clear Booker will have at worst a passing-down role early in the season. Aug 24 - 10:20 PM

He will until Lindsay takes over. Book is book. And the book is he's slow and not very good. 

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17 hours ago, TheFanatic said:

But he's the veteran starter who will keep Freeman off the field. Why is he getting so many fewer carries? 

I’d just like to say two things:

1. “So many fewer” is my new favorite phrase. 

2. Booker has lost his job go some very mediocre RBs. What I’ve seen from Royce Freeman this year is far far better than anyone Booker has lost his job to. Right now the only thing holding back Freeman is questionable pass protection, and as I understand it, that’s what coaches are looking for - if he shows well in week 4 with pass protection he could be a 3-down back. 

Regardless he’s likely to be a 15+ per game bruiser with GL work, which makes his ADP of 4.x worth the gamble. 

If you watched him this preseason I’d be surprised if you came away unimpressed - powerful runner with patience - maybe lacking in top end speed, but he’s a punishing runner, who should get better as the game goes on. Defenders are not going to be eager to tackle him. 

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21 hours ago, FF Ninja said:

That's actually high praise in my book. Blount, though some fault of his own, got pretty hosed throughout his career... but the talent was always there. 

meh, comparing him to a guy who had some success in spite of himself isnt high praise IMO

Blount is the ultimate plodder. He is good at what he is able to do. So yes, with his extremely limited skillset, he has fine tuned it. He carved out a niche in the league and did well.

Outside of the year where he had almost 20tds, his ceiling was never as high as a guy like Freeman.

Blount topped 1k yds 2x in 9 seasons. If you take away the outlier year of 1100 yds and 18 tds, he avg <5 tds a season and 590 yds. Gross...

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8 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

meh, comparing him to a guy who had some success in spite of himself isnt high praise IMO

Blount is the ultimate plodder. He is good at what he is able to do. So yes, with his extremely limited skillset, he has fine tuned it. He carved out a niche in the league and did well.

Outside of the year where he had almost 20tds, his ceiling was never as high as a guy like Freeman.

Blount topped 1k yds 2x in 9 seasons. If you take away the outlier year of 1100 yds and 18 tds, he avg <5 tds a season and 590 yds. Gross...

:rolleyes: Go watch his rookie year highlights. He was a big guy, but he was nimble and knew when to elude and when to plow over a guy. The talent was there. The opportunity rarely was. 

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19 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Lindsay is too short. Booker is the starter.

To be a 3rd down back? Uh, no. and why do you supposed Lindsay got time with the first team this preseason? To compete with Freeman or to compete with Booker? Lindsay may not be tall enough, or more importantly, big enough to be an every down starter, but he looks to be pretty ideal for a 3rd down back. 

I've got to ask. Are you new to following football? I know that's not going to come across as all to excellent, but I had to ask. 

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47 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

To be a 3rd down back? Uh, no. and why do you supposed Lindsay got time with the first team this preseason? To compete with Freeman or to compete with Booker? Lindsay may not be tall enough, or more importantly, big enough to be an every down starter, but he looks to be pretty ideal for a 3rd down back. 

I've got to ask. Are you new to following football? I know that's not going to come across as all to excellent, but I had to ask. 

Literally nothing has happened in regular season. Like I said before, money talks.

Name me your prop and your price and I'll be happy to show you how new I am to football.

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1 hour ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Lindsay is too short. Booker is the starter.

 From what I’ve seen, Bucher will either be the receiving back… Or the “breather“ back when Royce needs a blow. 

 I think a lot of that will depend on how Royce shows in the passing game in week four. For most players in the NFL the fourth week is meaningless. For Royce Freeman, this may be the week he becomes a future back. 

 But regardless of outcome, Booker is the third down back at best.  I’ve talk to an awful lot of people about  this situation, and none of them… Not one who saw Royce Freeman play in the preseason ( or in college), thought that Booker was anywhere close to his level of ability. 

Dude has Quicks and good burst  for a big man, and will deliver yards after contact consistently. 

 Looking back to the list of scrubs that Booker Has lost his job to over the last couple of seasons pretty much clinches it for me. But mainly it’s the eye test.  Freeman has the look of a terrifically balanced NFL running back.  He had 85 receptions in college, so it this point it’s just the pass protection making the difference.  We should collectively know more after week four. 

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 I was actually about to post it was a bad comparison because blunt was such a plodder.

 I will concede that his rookie year he had some speed. 

 But for his career he was absolutely a 3 yard and cloud of dust kind of player. He was a perfect fit for the teams that have used him in that capacity. 

 But Royce Freeman has the look of a much more complete back with better quick’s, agility, and burst off line. 

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Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 I was actually about to post it was a bad comparison because blunt was such a plodder.

 I will concede that his rookie year he had some speed. 

 But for his career he was absolutely a 3 yard and cloud of dust kind of player. He was a perfect fit for the teams that have used him in that capacity. 

 But Royce Freeman has the look of a much more complete back with better quick’s, agility, and burst off line. 

Oh, believe me, I get it. I just feel like it's finally Booker's turn to irrationally receive carries this year.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Oh, believe me, I get it. I just feel like it's finally Booker's turn to irrationally receive carries this year.

 

 

:lol: 

 He will get some carries… But in my opinion, Royce Freeman is the real deal & is going to make Denver look very smart for selecting him. He’s a perfect fit for what they want to do on the ground. If he weren’t, I can’t imagine why they would draft him when they already had Booker: 

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1 hour ago, TheFanatic said:

To be a 3rd down back? Uh, no. and why do you supposed Lindsay got time with the first team this preseason? To compete with Freeman or to compete with Booker? Lindsay may not be tall enough, or more importantly, big enough to be an every down starter, but he looks to be pretty ideal for a 3rd down back. 

I've got to ask. Are you new to following football? I know that's not going to come across as all to excellent, but I had to ask. 

That's Eminence's latest alias.

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55 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Literally nothing has happened in regular season. Like I said before, money talks.

Name me your prop and your price and I'll be happy to show you how new I am to football.

What are you going to wager on? That Booker is going to be the starter after week 8, week 6, week 4? Or that Booker is going to even be the third down back at any of those three time frames? 

It's time to lay down the cards you've been dealt and step away from the table. This is not a bet you should be even remotely making at this time, much less doubling down on. 

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3 hours ago, FF Ninja said:

:rolleyes: Go watch his rookie year highlights. He was a big guy, but he was nimble and knew when to elude and when to plow over a guy. The talent was there. The opportunity rarely was. 

2 things;

1, not gonna do that :)

2. So 9 years ago, he had ability but no opportunity, and then the next 8 years were mostly bad, but he is good still? Got it

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Just now, Pwingles said:

2 things;

1, not gonna do that :)

2. So 9 years ago, he had ability but no opportunity, and then the next 8 years were mostly bad, but he is good still? Got it

So you are showing that A) you don't know what you are talking about in point 2, and B) you aren't willing to educate yourself in point 1. Got it. 

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7 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

So you are showing that A) you don't know what you are talking about in point 2, and B) you aren't willing to educate yourself in point 1. Got it. 

No, not at all.

Ive seen the man play. From college until now. I dont need to re watch some tape to catch a glimpse of a skill that never came to be. Regardless of the amount of potential someone else thinks he had, he didnt really do much with it, so its sort of irrelevant.

He has made a good career for himself. Played a long time. Which is rare, for his position. But for people to compare players to him, and have it be some sort of positive comp or a compliment, sounds bad to me. I don't see the comparison between the two skill set wise.

Theyre both big, and play RB in the NFL, end comparison.

How would you react to a player if someone said that a player reminded you of Joique Bell and meant it as a compliment?

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13 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

What are you going to wager on? That Booker is going to be the starter after week 8, week 6, week 4? Or that Booker is going to even be the third down back at any of those three time frames? 

It's time to lay down the cards you've been dealt and step away from the table. This is not a bet you should be even remotely making at this time, less doubling down on. 

Your choice. I prefer something in the vein of Royce Freeman will score x more fantasy points than Devontae Booker?

Feel like that's fairly simple. Then we can throw in some injury parameters.

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4 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Blount might be a plodder at 31, but he wasn't always one. Stop calling him that.

Yeah Blount derailed a potentially great career by being a serial knucklehead. But dude had surprising short area quickness to go along with his power. Never a top end burner but definitely fast enough.

Much better RB than he gets credit for, but I fully understand why people don't view him that way with all the off field nonsense.

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1 hour ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Your choice. I prefer something in the vein of Royce Freeman will score x more fantasy points than Devontae Booker?

Feel like that's fairly simple. Then we can throw in some injury parameters.

You're the one wanting to bet and saying Booker would be the starter, why not bet on how many more fantasy points you think Booker will have?

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Come on guys. @Stuart Ullman and all the guys trying to get over on him, you know who you are (We all know who you are), please stop. You're ####### up this thread far more than most threads get ####### up by inevitable stupid tangents. Please, please take it to PM or, better yet just stop entirely.

ETA: I would say TIA but I know you're not going to stop.

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On these boards, the rookie is always better than the uninspiring veteran. Until 3 years later when said rookie is the uninspiring veteran and a new rookie is way better. Not saying Royce won't take over majority work in Denver, but I think you have to take most of the his thread for what it is. 

To me, dude's looked ok. I can't see why everybody drools over him so much.

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I don't think he's special but he's definitely earned lead back role. 15-84-3 is as good as you could expect for preseason evidence.

Price isn't crazy. It's a good situation, he doesn't have a talented back behind him, has a really good chance to have a solid grinder season and compile some really good numbers.

Lots of average talent RBs have productive NFL seasons.

Lindsay is a great story and he'll contribute on special teams. I suspect it might be awhile before he starts seeing significant touches but he's intriguing as the eventual 3rd down back.

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I’m surprised there are some on the Booker train. I just expected everyone be on the Royce train by now, my mistake. I think everyone will come around pretty quickly that he is the Broncos best option. Whether you then value him as a top 12 dynasty RB after he wins the job remains to be seen. But Booker really can’t hold him back. Nor can Lindsay. Bad tackling or not, he has made plays - can’t knock him for that. 

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3 hours ago, Gopher State said:

Redaft 10 team went 3rd round to rich for me.

I get it though, as a situational pick.

people get way too hung up on ADP.

i used to be like that. “Oh, that’s way too early for Royce. I wanted him at 4.02 through. He’s a great 4th rounder! 

We’re talking 5 picks difference there. Sounds like a lot, but if team 3.10 is taking a WR on the way back and there’s 4 guys he likes, but a run on RBs made Freeman the best available, I’d say it’s the shark move to grab him 3.10 and get the receiver after the turn. Especially if the turn was loaded on WR & thin at RB. 

Because I have Freeman in one league (4.12/5.01, however you want to look at it) today I asked a buddy of mine in Colorado what he thought of him (not telling him I’d already drafted him) - he’s a Broncos fan and plays FFB casually.... but he’s a sports geek in general - college baseball player, bigtime football fan. 

here’s his response: 

Okay. he is a stellar pick up in m opinion. I especially love watching him break multiple 20 yard runs and both being scores. 

What is even better about him is that the broncos have receiving weapons galore this year and a qb that is willing to throw between the numbers as well as pushing the ball down the field. 

With a receiving corps of Demarius, Sanders, Lindsay, Sutton, Butt, having them spread the field will help set up the run big time.

Saw him play in person in preseason, field level thanks to a client - Freeman is an impresssive human. Next to booker it’s no comparison. He’s a load to bring down in the open field, he’s much faster than you expect for his frame & let’s face it: Booker sucks. He’s had 10 chances to beat out 10 other guys and every time he hasn’t. No way he starts over Freeman if both are healthy. Within a month thiis is 100% Bookers backfield if his pass pro improves. At least he’s a 15-20 carry a game + short yardage. Dude can push a pile. He’s gonna score in bunches.”

so...pretty much exactly what I saw on television. 

Granted, my friend is a Broncos fan. But I’ve aleays found him to be fair, and minimally homerish. He told me to straight up avoid the Broncos backfield last year, so it’s not like he gushes about mediocre players.

I’m genuinely excited to own the dude. 

Someone willl quote that at season’s end if he’s a complete bust, I’m sure. I feel pretty confident that won’t be the case. ;) 

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