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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
To be honest, as much as I hate Gase what would that accomplish anyway? They would probably elevate Williams to HC and keep Loggains at OC (who is just a Gase puppet).
The Jets org chart set up where the HC and GM each report to the owner is what gets us into these messy situations year after year - let the HC report to the GM like 95% of the other teams do and Douglas likely would have brought his own coach in to start the system.
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
NYRAGE
Footballguy
You think so? I still think JD would have given him this year especially after those late wins. Plus Gase was instrumental in getting him to the Jets since he got Maccan't fired and wanted Douglas based on a prior relationship. Now next season is probably a different story, but unfortunately like you said, it's a Johnson call. Sigh.Dr. Octopus said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Those are valid points, so maybe not. But generally speaking, they keep running into the same problem with the way they have their org chart set up.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Well Chris Johnson just stated that he still believes that Gase is a brilliant offensive genius, so there's that. Plus Mr. Magoo said that we have the roster to win if it stays healthy.
Chris and Woody need to go.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I dont think I have ever been so down on a season this early....
owner spouting off clueless endorsements - the entire league and every fan/writer/commentator knows Gase is awful....I get not throwing him under the bus week 1 but did he have to use such laughable glowing terms? Made him look foolish - mid season firing? I am seriously concerned that this buffoon will keep Gase no matter what....he obviously has no concept of reality.
Lack of talent - JD has to take a hit hoarding all this cap money and giving Sam nothing to work with - should have landed at least one more WR that was decent
injuries- at some point its not a coincidence its a pattern - good teams have depth but also find ways to keep players healthy.
draft - Are we really talking about the draft after week 1? No chance they are lucky enough to get the top pick....Gase will find a way to win 3-4 meaningless games after being out of it....what a dissgrace
owner spouting off clueless endorsements - the entire league and every fan/writer/commentator knows Gase is awful....I get not throwing him under the bus week 1 but did he have to use such laughable glowing terms? Made him look foolish - mid season firing? I am seriously concerned that this buffoon will keep Gase no matter what....he obviously has no concept of reality.
Lack of talent - JD has to take a hit hoarding all this cap money and giving Sam nothing to work with - should have landed at least one more WR that was decent
injuries- at some point its not a coincidence its a pattern - good teams have depth but also find ways to keep players healthy.
draft - Are we really talking about the draft after week 1? No chance they are lucky enough to get the top pick....Gase will find a way to win 3-4 meaningless games after being out of it....what a dissgrace
NYRAGE
Footballguy
This is the worst that I have felt about this team in a while. Sometimes we have that hope of an 8-8 season or maybe even thoughts of sneaking in to that last draft spot. This feels different.
I like what JD did during the draft. I was happy about the Adams trade, but then everything else over training camp was a downer and too many bad omens. Too many injuries in camp. NO weapons for Darnold. A horrific performance by Darnold in game 1 and now doubting if he is the QB going forward. Total erasing of any doubt that Gase is awful.
We knew he that he had a terrible offense last year, but there was the benefit of the doubt of a poor o-line and a multitude of injuries (including mono for Sam), but now there is no goodwill remaining (earned after a decent second half of the season) after another bizarre summer and start to this season. Gase must go. Maybe Sam, too (we'll see). It just feels like we are now moving on to waiting/hoping for Gase to be gone and another reboot. Then the idiot owner comes along to cast some doubt that he would can Gase. Shoot them all into the sun.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
What WRs were really available in free agency?
I actually think rolling over the cap money is smart play by JD. This is a rebuild and hopefully the high draft pick and boatload of money helps them land a top HC candidate next year.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’m not sure how the Jets are only 6.5 point underdogs.
TLEF316
Footballguy
If we KNEW what we have with Sam, I would be ok with rolling over the money. But the sad reality is that we dont. The clock is ticking and now the kid has a built in excuse for year 3. That's a big problem.
If they were going to have this much $$ left, IMO, they should have paid Anderson. They also could have gone after a solid vet like Emanuel Sanders (although my guess is he probably preferred to play for a contender).
At some point (whether that's just due to poor roster construction or injuries) you cross a line where a young QB (at least one isn't already an established guy) just doesn't have much of a chance. Relying on Chris Hogan puts us there.
If they were going to have this much $$ left, IMO, they should have paid Anderson. They also could have gone after a solid vet like Emanuel Sanders (although my guess is he probably preferred to play for a contender).
At some point (whether that's just due to poor roster construction or injuries) you cross a line where a young QB (at least one isn't already an established guy) just doesn't have much of a chance. Relying on Chris Hogan puts us there.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Douglass put a lot of money and draft capital into the O-line which was obviously a necessity. He drafted Mims in Round 2 and signed Perriman who was a beast to end 2019. It’s not like he gave Darnold no support at all. It looks bad that Anderson had a great week one but I wouldn’t be shocked if that’s his best week this season. The Perriman signing is a wash for losing Anderson.
If Darnold does not turn things back around this year, some of that will fall on Gase, but I wouldn’t use the supporting cast excuse any longer. Good QBs make the players around them better.
rockaction
Footballguy
A gentle quibble: Perriman has never done anything outside of four or five games last year, and even then only when Godwin and Evans were hurt with hamstring injuries. He was the main guy going up against teams where they needed to throw the ball. Other than that, he's been hurt or ineffective his whole career.
Getting Mims with a two sounds more like Stephen Hill than anything right now.
The OL still has -- my favorite -- PFF confused. Outside of Becton, there's really no stalwart line guys there. We've discussed it in this thread: He may have gotten guys that play upright and move quicker than other guys with traditional stances, but they allowed 43% pressure last week, the worst of any team.
This is a dumpster fire on offense and has been since training camp. There's nothing in place there at any significant position of draft capital other than your QB and one O-Lineman and a WR that hasn't even seen the field yet but knows he doesn't like Philadelphia. Great.
Getting Mims with a two sounds more like Stephen Hill than anything right now.
The OL still has -- my favorite -- PFF confused. Outside of Becton, there's really no stalwart line guys there. We've discussed it in this thread: He may have gotten guys that play upright and move quicker than other guys with traditional stances, but they allowed 43% pressure last week, the worst of any team.
This is a dumpster fire on offense and has been since training camp. There's nothing in place there at any significant position of draft capital other than your QB and one O-Lineman and a WR that hasn't even seen the field yet but knows he doesn't like Philadelphia. Great.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, that's the thing.
We constantly busted Anderson's balls about being 1 dimensional, inconsistent, etc. But he's accomplished 10X more than Perriman at this point.
Passing on Anderson at 2 for 20 to sign Perriman for $8 Mil really seems like a mistake. Back in January when we thought Anderson was going to push for 12-14 Mil a year, I was cool with him taking a walk. But he signed an incredibly reasonable deal and should have been a no-brainer to keep him at the number. (for familiarity if nothing else).
Hopefully Perriman gets healthy and gives them something. Lord knows they need it.
We constantly busted Anderson's balls about being 1 dimensional, inconsistent, etc. But he's accomplished 10X more than Perriman at this point.
Passing on Anderson at 2 for 20 to sign Perriman for $8 Mil really seems like a mistake. Back in January when we thought Anderson was going to push for 12-14 Mil a year, I was cool with him taking a walk. But he signed an incredibly reasonable deal and should have been a no-brainer to keep him at the number. (for familiarity if nothing else).
Hopefully Perriman gets healthy and gives them something. Lord knows they need it.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Robby Anderson is the obvious one - I didnt think he ws worth $13-14M he was going for but $10M per yr for only 2 yrs was pretty reasonable - especially as he had good chemistry with Sam....they should have kept Robby and added what they did and put Sam in a much better spot and they would still be $20M under the cap.....hoarding all the cap $ is eeerily reminiscent of Idzik.....and Mims looking a lot like Stephen Hill.....bad vibes everywhere.....
trying to find something to look fwd to - Looking at WRs for next year - JuJu jumps out as probably being available and a great fit as he already played with Sam.....Pit doesnt pay offensive talent usually and they have a lot of solid WRs already....that would be an enormous upgrade/weapon for Sam.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Stephen Hill was another tall project WR in the 2d rd....he couldnt stay healthy and never developed or produced....
just lie Q is reminding me of Leo as a run stopper who cant seem to make big plays/sacks - Mims is reminding me of Hill
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I get why were all pessimists, I really do but....
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
A second rounder that can't stay on the field due to injury. Not sure where that's lazy. If you want to get didactic, I said "more like Stephen Hill than anything right now." And thus Denzel Mims hasn't seen an official practice in weeks and is on the IR already.
A less lazy analysis. He didn't come to camp in shape and promptly wound up on IR.
How's that?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
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rockaction
Footballguy
It's been four weeks and he didn't come to camp in playing shape. And now it's both hamstrings, indicating something different than simple tweaks and shows indicia of being a longer-term, year-long issue. Note: He's on the IR for three weeks, so I'm not sure where you're getting one week from. It'll be more like eight.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm not ready to call Mims Hill yet. Obviously it sucks that he's hurt, but he comes from a HEAVY passing offense. Hill was exactly the opposite playing in that triple option scheme at Georgia Tech. But they saw the success of Megatron and Demarius Thomas and figured Hill and his awesome measurements would be productive as well. They were wrong.
But yeah, somehow pulling BOTH hamstrings and missing the entirety of camp is NOT a good start.
But yeah, somehow pulling BOTH hamstrings and missing the entirety of camp is NOT a good start.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Of course its too early to call him a bust....I dont think its unfair to be frustrated at the lack of development of Mims, Q and others - and make comparisons to other similar type players who crashed and burned.....
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Never said that. That seems lazy. But if you're asking me why guys can't stay in basic football fitness shape on the Jets, I'm wondering the same thing. Why can't Chris Herndon IV stay in shape (last year)? Why is it always guys that seem to say and do stupid stuff wind up with soft tissue injuries on the Jets? What is it about the culture (hello, names on the locker room wall and televisions) about the Jets that makes it so predictable and them so inept.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I get the frustration over Mims missing time as well - no one wanted that but saying he's Hill is just letting yourself get crushed under the weight of past Jet's transgressions.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think if you scratch the wrong side of me, I'd predict every arrow in the world points to Denzel Mims being a bust, from his free fall from the late first into the deep second at the draft, from his rawness, from his own mouth, and from other people's projections of him.
Arrow points squarely at bust. That's just reading the tea leaves.
Arrow points squarely at bust. That's just reading the tea leaves.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'd love to have the arrows be wrong for a myriad of reasons.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
40 yrs of busts, losing and disappointment will get to you.....especially after that opener! lol
what I wouldnt give for Sam to just be a Ken O'brien at this point!
rockaction
Footballguy
I should really say that my problem with Mims isn't limited to Mims. It's their culture -- from the owners to the front office to the coach -- that has me particularly worried. It seems like, as people have pointed out, you have too many different people reporting to different principals in the matters at hand.
For Woody or Chris to come out and call Gase an offensive genius is simply icing on the cake of insult to Jets fans. We know from past analysis, from our eyes this time around, to quantification statistics that he's a horrible coach. Unless he bucks every quant trend, from snaps taken per game, to effective playcalling within it, you're looking at a team where an inept head coach has the owner's ear.
This is worse than BOB in Houston. BOB has talent to nuke. We don't.
For Woody or Chris to come out and call Gase an offensive genius is simply icing on the cake of insult to Jets fans. We know from past analysis, from our eyes this time around, to quantification statistics that he's a horrible coach. Unless he bucks every quant trend, from snaps taken per game, to effective playcalling within it, you're looking at a team where an inept head coach has the owner's ear.
This is worse than BOB in Houston. BOB has talent to nuke. We don't.
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
The losing culture is huge.....when people try to mock that the Jets passed on QBs like Marino, Mahomes, Watson, etc - I say to them there is no way those players would be the same if they went to the Jets.......does anyone not think If Josh Allen and Sam were switched that Sam would be looking solid with upside and Josh Allen a mess?
It starts at the top - Parcells and Bellichick knew Johnson was a mess and got out of dodge quickly.....at least the Mets have new hope with Cohen....Woody is coming back at some point, more stained than ever and Chris Johnson just called Gase an offensive genius lol - no way out!
NYRAGE
Footballguy
That's what he signed for in Carolina, but you can't say that we passed on him for that amount. State taxes in NY are more than double in North Carolina. It's his former college coach. It's not Adam Gase and that has to be worth big bucks. For all we know, it could have been $12-13 million to play in NY. He maybe didn't even want to stay in NY. We just don't know.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
But a trap which way? I would think a line like that would have people flocking to the Niners - and it's now up to 7 so I guess that's the case. Does Vegas think the Jets somehow keep this close?
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Sorry if this seems selfish but I need advice guys.....with AJ Brown and Mike THomas both out, I need to choose between Perriman and Herndon for the flex spot (this is in FBGPC so TEs get 1.5 PPR).... who would you start against the Niners at home? Richard Sherman is out FYI
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
NYRAGE
Footballguy
When I first saw that early line on Sunday, I thought that I should take out $100k out of my savings and bet on SF....which means somehow the Jets would cover. As bad as we looked on Sunday, I don't know how anyone could ever wager even a penny on the Jets.
Manster
Footballguy
Seems like a no brainer, right? Except weird things happen when teams fly cross country to play home dogs
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
Yep - plus Jets have a very good rushing defense so I can see GWill putting together a solid gameplan to shut down the SF running game and force Jimmy G to beat them.....hes shaky so if Sam and the O can get on track it may be closer than people think....
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Just read that Jameson Crowder might be out now....did not practice today.... is Perriman a good start then? or still herndon?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That would "help" Herndon since Crowder is a slot guy/short area passing range. Herndon should rack up more targets with Crowder out.
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