2021 New York Jets: Can't You See the Sunshine? Now Can't You Just Feel The Moonshine?

[-OZ- 8,317]

9 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

My stance is the Jets dealt with the Colts because the Browns and Giants rejected the same offer. And the only logical reason to reject that offer is because you intend to draft a QB.

Unless there’s some kind of unwritten no trade rule between the Jets/Giants I’m unaware of. 

Eli is old, and hasn’t really ever been good, honestly. The Giants won those championships with their pass rush. 

Oh come on now. Eli isn't Peyton, he's not among the elite, but he's been a good QB. 

[Chemical X 5,823]

1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

My stance is the Jets dealt with the Colts because the Browns and Giants rejected the same offer. And the only logical reason to reject that offer is because you intend to draft a QB.

Unless there’s some kind of unwritten no trade rule between the Jets/Giants I’m unaware of. 

Eli is old, and hasn’t really ever been good, honestly. The Giants won those championships with their pass rush. 

there is an unwritten rule IMO

[RUSF18 3,899]

I don't think it's an unwritten rule, at least both ways. If the draft spots were reversed, I would be SHOCKED if the Jets, in need of a QB, traded down with the Giants so they could potentially draft their next franchise QB leaving the Jets to run the risk of watching that QB play and succeed in their stadium. Even they wouldn't put their fanbase up to that. 

But I don't think the Giants care very much about the Jets possibly winning something over on them, after how the last couple decades have gone for both franchises. 

My guess is the Giants rejected that offer because they either 1) intend to draft a QB and/or 2) didn't see the point in cashing in 5 weeks before the draft, especially if the Jets moving up to #3 established a baseline for the offer and makes #2 more valuable when people now know #3 will be a QB too. 

[mphtrilogy 3,342]

This  draft seems to me to be very occam's razor like...

Darnold, Rosen, then Jets take Mayfield,  yeah there's a chance they take Allen instead but seems like Mayfield is a better fit for the WCO.. but Giants would be nuts to not take a QB here.. I see Cle taking Barkley next not trading out, leaving Allen for Denver.. Colts then take the Guard for Luck..  (or Chubb...)

if Buff or Mia want to move up it's gonna take a very very very large haul... 

[Sweet Love 233]

I have to admit, those with a good QB are going to get very good players in the top 10...likely better than the QBs that will be taken for them.  Now most teams set at QB don't find themselves in the top 10 often (Pats, Pitt, Saints, Seattle, etc.), but if Luck can get back to form, Indy will be in great shape for their rebuild.  There is going to be some nice O-Line options in Round 2.

[Grahamburn 2,099]

29 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

I don't think it's an unwritten rule, at least both ways. If the draft spots were reversed, I would be SHOCKED if the Jets, in need of a QB, traded down with the Giants so they could potentially draft their next franchise QB leaving the Jets to run the risk of watching that QB play and succeed in their stadium. Even they wouldn't put their fanbase up to that. 

But I don't think the Giants care very much about the Jets possibly winning something over on them, after how the last couple decades have gone for both franchises. 

My guess is the Giants rejected that offer because they either 1) intend to draft a QB and/or 2) didn't see the point in cashing in 5 weeks before the draft, especially if the Jets moving up to #3 established a baseline for the offer and makes #2 more valuable when people now know #3 will be a QB too. 

That could definitely be the other reason. The Giants can still get an absolute monster haul of picks from Buffalo if they so choose. Likely even more now with the Jets at #3.

[NYRAGE 1,706]

Is there really a rivalry between the Jets and Giants? I remember disliking them when I lived in NY my first 27 years.  Since I moved 24 years ago, I couldn’t care less. I thought most of the rivalry (other sports, too) was media driven. 

 

I was watching that horrible morning show on the NFL Network this morning and they did this bad segment on which team is better and has better celebrity fans, etc. 

 

i guess if you livr in the city and have to deal with fans of the other team, I can see it to a degree. Personally I couldn’t care less about the Giants. I root against Miami and NE.  

 

Your thoughts? 

Ps Hurns was cut. Maybe another target. We’ll see if anything happens with Pryor today. 

[Bracie Smathers 3,769]

18 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It was a great package - especially for the Colts who need a lot of help - but I don't really think it was some "no brainer" ransom either. It was an early second, a late second and a future second, which is not exactly any sure things.

Don't get me wrong,  the Jets could use those picks as well, but if the Giants thing Barkley has even Zeke Elliot potential (or Chubb or Nelson have All-Pro potential) taking him/them helps the team more than a few extra dart throws potentially.

 

Michael Kist‏ @MichaelKistNFL Mar 19

If NYG sticks at 2 to take an RB after having turned down trade offers.. they essentially will have spent a top pick & three 2nd rounders on a position that the league values (and pays) like kickers. Pick a QB or take a war chest. This isn't hard.

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

12 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Michael Kist‏ @MichaelKistNFL Mar 19

If NYG sticks at 2 to take an RB after having turned down trade offers.. they essentially will have spent a top pick & three 2nd rounders on a position that the league values (and pays) like kickers. Pick a QB or take a war chest. This isn't hard.

Dallas, Jax and LA Rams may disagree with Michael Kist (whoever that is).

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

12 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Michael Kist‏ @MichaelKistNFL Mar 19

If NYG sticks at 2 to take an RB after having turned down trade offers.. they essentially will have spent a top pick & three 2nd rounders on a position that the league values (and pays) like kickers. Pick a QB or take a war chest. This isn't hard.

I do agree that taking a trade down would be a nice option for them and that still could happen. Buffalo has a lot of ammunition and they may get an even better deal.

[Bracie Smathers 3,769]

1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Dallas, Jax and LA Rams may disagree with Michael Kist (whoever that is).

Boy you really are snippy about questioning sources you don't agree with.  Ad hoc much?  Easy their big fella.

Point is to evaluate the take not nit picking the source , this take has value. (you can look him up because a former GM of two teams retweeted him so he  probably has some credibility).

Quote

I do agree that taking a trade down would be a nice option for them and that still could happen. Buffalo has a lot of ammunition and they may get an even better deal.

And???  They can take the QB that they need if they don't trade down which is the most likely possibility.

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

7 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Boy you really are snippy about questioning sources you don't agree with.  Ad hoc much?  Easy their big fella.

Point is to evaluate the take not nit picking the source , this take has value. (you can look him up because a former GM of two teams retweeted him so he  probably has some credibility).

And???  They can take the QB that they need if they don't trade down which is the most likely possibility.

I do think there's a very good chance that the Giants take a QB - I just don't agree its such a sure thing. Everybody is just guessing even these random twitter guys - but you like to post the ones that agree with you and somehow construe it as persuasive.

I saw five mocks this morning 2 had the Brown taking Barkley, one had the Giants taking Nelson and 2 had the Browns and Giants both taking a QB - so all the guesses do not add up to anything but just an opinion of the person offering it.

I'm just offering my opinions as well and frankly I think it's just as meaningful as anyone's because I'm basing it on what I hear, read, see etc. - just like random twitter guys.

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

21 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

And???  They can take the QB that they need if they don't trade down which is the most likely possibility.

The Giants GM and HC have both said the Eli is their QB for the next 2-3 years and they are fully confident with him. Giant beat reporters have said that many in the organization see Davis Webb as the heir apparent and really like him. Just because you think the Giants need a QB, it doesn't mean that they do.

Once again - the Giants may take a QB and if I was a Giants fan I'd be 100% ok with them doing so. I just don't see it as a given based on things I've heard. You think it's 100% guaranteed. Let's move on.  

[Bracie Smathers 3,769]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I do think there's a very good chance that the Giants take a QB - I just don't agree its such a sure thing. Everybody is just guessing even these random twitter guys - but you like to post the ones that agree with you and somehow construe it as persuasive.

I saw five mocks this morning 2 had the Brown taking Barkley, one had the Giants taking Nelson and 2 had the Browns and Giants both taking a QB - so all the guesses do not add up to anything but just an opinion of the person offering it.

I'm just offering my opinions as well and frankly I think it's just as meaningful as anyone's because I'm basing it on what I hear, read, see etc. - just like random twitter guys.

When speaking of the top three picks their are only three outcomes that will happen but the scenarios that people can speculate on are as endless as their imaginations and biases which you clearly have.  You want the Jets to have more QB possibilities so you keep insisting the Giants will not take a QB even in the face of need and availability and rare opportunity and now we know the Jets offered three 2nd-round picks and were turned down and the Jets tried to get the top pick and were turned down.  

• Did the Jets trade up for Barkley?
• Chubb?
• Nelson?
• Minka?
• OR A QUARTERBACK?

What is the most likely reason the Jets traded up?

Then ask: Why did the Browns and Giants turn down the Jets offer?

Because they wanted to get a RB, DE, G, DB, OR A QUARTERBACK?

Need, opportunity, availability, and positional value all come into play. 

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

1 minute ago, Bracie Smathers said:

 biases which you clearly have. 

I have no biases at all.

[RUSF18 3,899]

1 hour ago, NYRAGE said:

Is there really a rivalry between the Jets and Giants? I remember disliking them when I lived in NY my first 27 years.  Since I moved 24 years ago, I couldn’t care less. I thought most of the rivalry (other sports, too) was media driven.

It's probably similar to Yanks-Mets. You have one team that has had much more success both on the field and in front office/behind the scenes competence, while the other has quite the opposite. Jets/Mets fans (I'm a Mets fan) have a bit of little brother syndrome as a result, and Yanks/Giants fans know it's smart not to "punch down". 

I don't think much of that extends to the front office though, for purposes of the original question. 

[Grahamburn 2,099]

1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Michael Kist‏ @MichaelKistNFL Mar 19

If NYG sticks at 2 to take an RB after having turned down trade offers.. they essentially will have spent a top pick & three 2nd rounders on a position that the league values (and pays) like kickers. Pick a QB or take a war chest. This isn't hard.

He's spot on.

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

5 hours ago, -OZ- said:

Oh come on now. Eli isn't Peyton, he's not among the elite, but he's been a good QB. 

It was a ridiculous statement that wasn't worth a response.

[Grahamburn 2,099]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It was a ridiculous statement that wasn't worth a response.

Ok.

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

40 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

It's probably similar to Yanks-Mets. You have one team that has had much more success both on the field and in front office/behind the scenes competence, while the other has quite the opposite. Jets/Mets fans (I'm a Mets fan) have a bit of little brother syndrome as a result, and Yanks/Giants fans know it's smart not to "punch down". 

I don't think much of that extends to the front office though, for purposes of the original question. 

The Jets and Giants are partners in a stadium - while there may be a "rivalry" among fans (although I have no hate at all for the Giants), I agree. I do not think either would pass on a deal that benefits both.

[-OZ- 8,317]

2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

The Giants GM and HC have both said the Eli is their QB for the next 2-3 years and they are fully confident with him. Giant beat reporters have said that many in the organization see Davis Webb as the heir apparent and really like him. Just because you think the Giants need a QB, it doesn't mean that they do.

Once again - the Giants may take a QB and if I was a Giants fan I'd be 100% ok with them doing so. I just don't see it as a given based on things I've heard. You think it's 100% guaranteed. Let's move on.  

The crazy thing imo is the Giants are almost equally well off taking a QB, Barkley, Chubb, or a case can be made for Nelson. Which adds up to, imo, trading down to 6 would have been ideal. 

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

7 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

The crazy thing imo is the Giants are almost equally well off taking a QB, Barkley, Chubb, or a case can be made for Nelson. Which adds up to, imo, trading down to 6 would have been ideal. 

What I truly think is what I said above. They just weren’t ready to make a move yet. They want to evaluate all of their options and see what the best move is. If Barkley, Chubb or Nelson are future All Pros, maybe it’s not worth the risk of losing them. If they want a QB, which one? If they want to trade down it will still be there for them. The Bills will probably pay even more than what the Jets offered, ultimately.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Dr. Octopus

[Mystery Achiever 1,252]

I agree the Giants didn't need to rush. The Jets move should make the #2 pick more valuable now since the Colts were not expected to want a QB there.

Allen and Darnold haven't even had their pro days yet. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Mystery Achiever

[Grahamburn 2,099]

Quote

 

**UPDATED NFL RUMORS**
Source: Bills made offer to move up to #2 overall 2018 #NFLDraft
1st proposal made #Bills to #Giants

2018 1st Rd (#12 overall)
2018 1st Rd (#22 overall)
2018 2nd Rd (#53 overall)
2018 3rd Rd (#65)
2019 2nd Rd

Giants likely will counter but talks are on!

 

 

[Riversco 604]

i dont like the jets trade.  The only QB id want out of this draft is baker mayfield but theres no guarantee be will be there.  But now that you have the choice, he definitely MIGHT be there.  

If im the jets i target mayfield with the pick, then josh rosen, then ugh

[Riversco 604]

My prediction is the browns take sam darnold who will bust, then the bills trade up and take rosen and the jets win the lottery and get mayfield. 

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

3 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

 

Impossible - the Giants are 100% taking a QB.

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

3 hours ago, Riversco said:

My prediction is the browns take sam darnold who will bust, then the bills trade up and take rosen and the jets win the lottery and get mayfield. 

CIVIL WAR!!!!

[NYRAGE 1,706]

4 hours ago, Riversco said:

My prediction is the browns take sam darnold who will bust, then the bills trade up and take rosen and the jets win the lottery and get mayfield. 

Except the Jets take Allen and 3/4 of Jets fans will be mad as a hornet's nest and 90% of everyone else laughs at them. It's so Jets that we all see it in our crystal ball.

McCags then says this is the QB we targeted all along and praises the job of the scouts.

Then Todd Bowles steps up and mumbles throughout the press conference showing no emotion at all while internally seething that we didn't add a pass rusher to help him win now. We'll never know he's angry because he believes an old tale that his mom once told him as a boy that if his blood pressure reaches 121 over 80, his heart will explode.

[NYRAGE 1,706]

T Pryor left today without a contract. The Jets are bringing in Hurns tomorrow. Maybe they withheld an offer to Pryor because they want to talk to Hurns first.

[NYRAGE 1,706]

7 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I do think there's a very good chance that the Giants take a QB - I just don't agree its such a sure thing. Everybody is just guessing even these random twitter guys - but you like to post the ones that agree with you and somehow construe it as persuasive.

I saw five mocks this morning 2 had the Brown taking Barkley, one had the Giants taking Nelson and 2 had the Browns and Giants both taking a QB - so all the guesses do not add up to anything but just an opinion of the person offering it.

I'm just offering my opinions as well and frankly I think it's just as meaningful as anyone's because I'm basing it on what I hear, read, see etc. - just like random twitter guys.

You might as well share your opinion publicly and get some clicks like Manish. All day long fans ask Manish and Rich, who are we picking? Can you please come on our radio show or blog?  These clowns are peddling their own speculation with no ties to any inside info just like how we didn't hear a peep out of them throughout free agency other than their bs "sources confirm that Adam Shefter is correct that we are signing.....".  No one knows anything right now. It's all their own guesses and speculation like you said.

[NYRAGE 1,706]

Damn storm. Hurns had to cancel his flight and went to Dallas instead.

[Kiddnets 970]

2 minutes ago, NYRAGE said:

Damn storm. Hurns had to cancel his flight and went to Dallas instead.

God hates the Jets....

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

8 hours ago, NYRAGE said:

Damn storm. Hurns had to cancel his flight and went to Dallas instead.

That sucks. Hopefully he makes it back.

[NYRAGE 1,706]

12 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

God hates the Jets....

Indeed. I have many years of evidence of this.

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

I guess it's good we'll have McCown and Teddy to get killed behind our o-line while the rookie sits on the bench.

[Reaper 201]

On 3/19/2018 at 10:23 AM, NYRAGE said:

 

Bowles definitely coached to win to survive.  Were him and McCags on the same page? I'm not so sure about that.  Bowles not reporting to McCags was/is an issue. Petty got a chance to play once McCown went down and he was terrible. To this day, I don't know how Hack never got a chance to start one game. Even if he was terrible, so was Petty. It was curious handling to say the least.  Was the coach and GM on the same page?

Fast forward to today: at least by trading up McCags guaranteed himself a top 3 QB in the draft.  Was it a half measure again? Could he have traded higher to 1 or 2? None of us can be sure, so we can't judge it. IF Buffalo trades up to #2, then McCags will be criticized for not trading up higher. We'll see.

Getting a top QB is the first step.  Can we develop him? Do we have the right environment for a rookie QB to succeed? Again, I'm not sure about that. We have almost no talent on offense, a suspect o-line,  a new offensive coordinator, a head coach that I'm not sure knows much about offense (or much else imo).  We need to start adding pieces to the offense.

 

Given ALL this and "Conflicting Goals"...... Gonna be so interesting to see when they play the Rookie.

I imagine they play McCown or TB and if they win some games that QB starts until the playoffs are out of the picture...

I mean "We can't let the players down who think they are a playoff team" will me the mantra again... Chasing that short term Carrot like always..

Either way, like the last rookie who started - I'm a fan of Rookies sitting at least a few games to get the whole NFL scheduling, Weekly routine down and see how the other QB's attack it.

 

 

 

[Kiddnets 970]

31 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I guess it's good we'll have McCown and Teddy to get killed behind our o-line while the rookie sits on the bench.

yep - really wish they upgraded a bit more....couldnt fix everything in 1 offseason I guess....lots of $ next yr as well to concentrate on OL....maybe grab a T in the 3rd.  

[Reaper 201]

On 3/19/2018 at 0:01 PM, Kiddnets said:

love all the March banter - few thoughts on reading few of the above - 

The deal had to be made - I have no doubt if they stayed at 6 they would have been jumped and had all the QBs taken before they even picked....the fact that they didnt give up a 1st is a huge win...

Time will tell but, I just feel like you Have Darnold/Rosen then the next tier and I put L Jackson right in there - So, that's 5 QB's.

Imagine 5 Qb's drafted 1-5?????

Hey, we'll all Pray for Macc but, when we take Allen after spending all those picks to do it and Miami takes Mayfield or Jackson at 11 who become the next Great thing it will be another sad chapter....

I just wish this trade was for the #2 pick and we could rest a little easier this next month.... 

[NYRAGE 1,706]

We didn't have a pro center, so that had to be upgraded/replaced. Outside of center (and back-up swing tackle), I don't think we were linked to any other positions on the o-line. That's a little troubling since every position on that line could be upgraded.

Crowell helps, but I think they are still looking for an electric pass-catching RB, hence the interest in Mackinnon. I could see us getting a RB in the third round. If not, maybe an OLB in the third and a RB in the 4th.

I expect them to land either Hurns or Pryor. I'm not sure they believe Anderson will be available all season plus you have Enunwa coming off injury and suspect rookie performances from Stewart and Hansen. Kearse was solid, but no defense worries about him.

Leggett, Tomlinson, and Sterling is underwhelming at TE.

On defense, I guess they expect the safeties to greatly improve in their second year. Trumaine Johnson helps a lot. Now we have 2 good CBs. Skrine is better in the slot, but the slot and middle of our field will still be a weakness.  They took a look at Dansby, so they're looking for another ILB and they still need a pass-rushing OLB. Our d-line can use another body, too.

I expect our rookie QB to sit all year. Let's see what Teddy B can do  HOPEFULLY they upgrade the o-line next season.

[NYRAGE 1,706]

These USC receivers have dropped a few easy ones during Darnold's workout. Feedback on him seems positive.

[Grahamburn 2,099]

22 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Impossible - the Giants are 100% taking a QB.

They’re either taking a QB or trading the pick to someone who is. 

[Tool 1,588]

On 3/20/2018 at 6:26 PM, Dr. Octopus said:

Impossible - the Giants are 100% taking a QB.

Yep. Manning might be able to squeeze out one more year but he's essentially done.

[Ridcully 190]

Terrelle Pryor choosing between Jets and Seattle.  Anderson, Kearse, Pryor and Enunwa would be a pretty strong, young WR group for a young QB to grow with.

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

3 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

They’re either taking a QB or trading the pick to someone who is. 

We’ll see. I’m sticking with them taking Barkley, but I know I could surely be wrong. I think they’re more likely to trade out then take a QB though. They like Eli and Webb.

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

19 minutes ago, Ridcully said:

Terrelle Pryor choosing between Jets and Seattle.  Anderson, Kearse, Pryor and Enunwa would be a pretty strong, young WR group for a young QB to grow with.

I don’t think Pryor is a very good WR - but he’s athletic enough to add some excitement at least. I’d prefer for them to wait out Hurns.

[NYRAGE 1,706]

The Giants traded JPP to the Bucs. Could they go for Chubb now? Hmm

[Dr. Octopus 16,932]

3 minutes ago, NYRAGE said:

The Giants traded JPP to the Bucs. Could they go for Chubb now? Hmm

@Hankmoody speculated that in the trade thread. I'm not necessarily making that connection yet, but its interesting and I sure hope so.

[rockaction 26,079]

My brother was convinced they were in win-now mode and that they would take Barkley. Now, not so much with the JPP trade and Chubb out there.  

[NYRAGE 1,706]

I'm just praying one of Barkley or Chubb goes in the top 2.