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2021 New York Jets: I’m as confused as Wilson looked on Sunday


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5 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I'm not a fan of Davis - I'd much rather they use the money on Allen Robinson or JJSS. Smith is interesting though.

I would love Arob as well - but. I think he gets franchised.....JJSS plays a lot of slot and besides having Crowder already there Im not sure SF system uses the slot a lot....

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Wentz dealt to Indy for a 3rd this yr and a 2d that will turn into a 1st next yr if he plays 70% of snaps.....value looks about right to me considering his contract....with this big domino falling Im thinking about how it effects Sam's value if they deal him....better contract but has shown less and only signed for 1 yr....I still think a 2d rder....

Lots of teams still will be looking for QBs: Wash, SF, Chi, NE, Car, Denver and possibly Pitt.....thats a lot of need....hopefully JD can get 2 of them in a bidding war

Edited by Kiddnets
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Yeah, I'd much rather pay what Indy did for Wentz than a 2 for Sam.

I get it....big contract, some injury history, 4+ years older.  But that guy is not that far removed from an MVP level season.  I dont think he's broken. I think he just needs a refresh.

IMO, the odds of him getting back to average starting QB level are WAY higher than the odds of Sam getting there.

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44 minutes ago, Todd from Utah said:

Yeah, I'd much rather pay what Indy did for Wentz than a 2 for Sam.

I get it....big contract, some injury history, 4+ years older.  But that guy is not that far removed from an MVP level season.  I dont think he's broken. I think he just needs a refresh.

IMO, the odds of him getting back to average starting QB level are WAY higher than the odds of Sam getting there.

true - thats why I think Sam just gets a 2d and likely not the 1st Philly will likely receive.....Sam is much more potential still than reset ....but dont underestimate the contract..not a lot of teams could have taken that...Sam's contract much more feasible with franchise tag in back pocket if he hit....

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2 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

true - thats why I think Sam just gets a 2d and likely not the 1st Philly will likely receive.....Sam is much more potential still than reset ....but dont underestimate the contract..not a lot of teams could have taken that...Sam's contract much more feasible with franchise tag in back pocket if he hit....

Are the Jets done with Darnold? Based on what you are saying about his trade value, maybe a 2nd rounder. Wouldn’t they be better off trading the #2 pick?

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18 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Are the Jets done with Darnold? Based on what you are saying about his trade value, maybe a 2nd rounder. Wouldn’t they be better off trading the #2 pick?

If they evaluate Sam and find he is the same or lesser than the prospects at #2 they will likely trade Sam because it resets the clock - Sam is due $25M in 2022 if they exercise the option which they wont....so in essence he is a FA after this season where if he has any type of decent season he will make $20M per yr....the rookie drafted at #2 will be on the cheap for 4 yrs...

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Just listened to an interview on WFAN with the Hou beat writer McClain.....hes very plugged in with the Watson situation....says its likely broken beyond repair and likely a matter of when a trade will happen vs if at this point....he also said Jets matched up best even over Miami as their pick in 2022 could be a top pick as well where Miami would be a late 1st if they landed Watson....also made all these other connections with Saleh....then at the end when they pushed him for a prediction he backtracked and predicted Watson stays in Hou on the inactive list and AJ McCarron  would be the starter in week 1....strange end after throwing all that smoke during the interview but definitely seems like Jets are in play if there is a deal to be made.  

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Watching all the Russell Wilson drama unfold I cant help but enjoy it a bit....Adams crowing about how he upgraded to a top organization that has a great QB and wins.....if they deal Wilson Seattle is going to sink like a stone...dont think it will happen but would love to see it for Jamal as well as upgrading that 2022 pick!  

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Anyone see Kiper's new mock draft?  Jets trade down with Atlanta for more picks and draft the stud TE Pitts at #4.....He think Saleh sees him as a Kittle type weapon that is very rare to get....pretty early for a TE as the earliest ever before I think was #6 but if they think his upside is Kittle/Kelce why not...Jets have never had such a weapon at TE....then they can grab a WR in FA and go with C Davis/Samuel type to pair with Mims, Crowder....Id be ok with that.  

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10 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

Anyone see Kiper's new mock draft?  Jets trade down with Atlanta for more picks and draft the stud TE Pitts at #4.....He think Saleh sees him as a Kittle type weapon that is very rare to get....pretty early for a TE as the earliest ever before I think was #6 but if they think his upside is Kittle/Kelce why not...Jets have never had such a weapon at TE....then they can grab a WR in FA and go with C Davis/Samuel type to pair with Mims, Crowder....Id be ok with that.  

Pitts is as good of a pass catching tight end prospect that has come out in the last 50 years. Matchup nightmare. But George Kittle he is not as a complete tight end.

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3 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

Watching all the Russell Wilson drama unfold I cant help but enjoy it a bit....Adams crowing about how he upgraded to a top organization that has a great QB and wins.....if they deal Wilson Seattle is going to sink like a stone...dont think it will happen but would love to see it for Jamal as well as upgrading that 2022 pick!  

Sorta funny to imagine Adams arriving back at camp only to see Darnold there in the locker room.

Anyway just popping in to see the latest scuttlebutt at number 2 (and again I will repeat while you may find a trade partner it won't be the Bengals - just not how the org rolls.  Feeling good about #5 ending up as Sewell, Chase, or rip off some QB needy team).

Curious though if you guys would prefer 10th-year Wilson or 5th-year Watson if you pulled that trigger.

-QG

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3 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

Anyone see Kiper's new mock draft?  Jets trade down with Atlanta for more picks and draft the stud TE Pitts at #4.....He think Saleh sees him as a Kittle type weapon that is very rare to get....pretty early for a TE as the earliest ever before I think was #6 but if they think his upside is Kittle/Kelce why not...Jets have never had such a weapon at TE....then they can grab a WR in FA and go with C Davis/Samuel type to pair with Mims, Crowder....Id be ok with that.  

For reference Riley Odoms was the last TE drafted in the top 5 (5th) in 1972(!).  Prior to that? Ditka went 5th in 1961. Things get a little murkier before that as players got drafted with designations like FL and E and stuff.

But Pitts would be bucking a ton of history - some have speculated him going to Cincy at #5 but not sure I see that.

That Jets scenario outlined above would make for a fun draft-night rollercoaster for sure.

-QG

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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

If we take Pitts at four, I'm hanging up the metaphorical cleats.

Is it because you dont think he's that good or is just because he's listed as a tight end?  (or are you just against drafting ANY pass catcher that high, which is a perfectly reasonable opinion)

If you dont believe in the quarterbacks (and honestly, I dont think I do, at least at 2) and you can get additional assets, I dont hate the trade down. And at that point, if the guy puts up numbers like Kelce or Waller or Kittle (when healthy) does it really matter if he has TE next to his name and not WR?

I'm not making a judgement one way or another. I watched like 10 minutes of Florida football all year. But the kid definitely stands out.  He looks like a difference maker to me.  Big and Strong and long and seems to make some GREAT hands catches. If he runs fast, he's going really high.

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28 minutes ago, Todd from Utah said:

Is it because you dont think he's that good or is just because he's listed as a tight end?  (or are you just against drafting ANY pass catcher that high, which is a perfectly reasonable opinion)

Fair enough. I'll respond with this. It is almost definitely because he has the TE designation, but with one big negative also thrown in there on top of the designation. All accounts say he gets the designation of TE without being having any element of blocking prowess to his name. So all I know is that he'd better be Kelce if they take him that high and he already has that limitation. 

Secondly, I further don't trust it for this reason: Scouts can't seem to get TE right very often, especially Jets scouts. Think of all the guys that have gone in the first and second and you get the picture. Not much dynamism among them. Kelce, Waller, and Kittle are the big three in the NFL by far, and none of those guys went before the third. Kelce was the first pick of the third, Waller was a sixth, and Kittle was a fifth. So it's not like scouts have exactly beaten down the path to the best tight ends in the game. The scouts can't tell because it's a demanding, intricate position that takes years to grow into for the most part when considering NFL performance.

And lastly, the Jets have a perfectly viable pass-catching TE in Herndon. It's not like the guy completely forgot how to play under Gase. He just got totally shelved as a blocker and did okay by most accounts. I still think he's pretty good. (I'd stake my fantasy teams on it, too, and would look to acquire him on the cheap.)

I just think taking Pitts is a really bad move. Douglas needs to hold firm and pick guys that are of the most value at the most valued positions. We dodged a bullet with Adams and traded him to a team even older-school than us to recoup some serious draft picks. Let's not waste them on guys at non-premium positions.

Edited by rockaction
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I still think going QB then WR is actually the best move. Get a guy on the outside to pair with Mims. Then I'm all for saving about ten million in cap space by cutting Crowder and letting Berrios play slot.

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

I still think going QB then WR is actually the best move. Get a guy on the outside to pair with Mims. Then I'm all for saving about ten million in cap space by cutting Crowder and letting Berrios play slot.

I wouldnt hate a WR but they will probably get a pretty good one in FA so it may not be necessary.....adding Pitts  to a an offense that adds Thuney and Davis/Samuel would be very legit....no more excuses for Darnold if they roll with that kind of O

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Jets havent gotten a TE right since...well...ever....but thats no reason to not add him if he looks like the real deal.....I just want more weapons....defense can wait a year.....need a complete offensive upgrade.  

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31 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

I wouldnt hate a WR but they will probably get a pretty good one in FA so it may not be necessary.....adding Pitts  to a an offense that adds Thuney and Davis/Samuel would be very legit....no more excuses for Darnold if they roll with that kind of O

Yeah, I want no part of Corey Davis. Obviously he was a high draft pick, but any time a guy doesn't break out until his walk year.....I'm skeptical.  He was decent his 2nd year and obviously just had a really nice season, but I wonder how much of that has to do with defenses selling out for Henry AND having an absolute freak on the other side to take up attention.

I'd rather spend a few extra mil and get someone like Golladay if we're going that route.  Its not like they wont have the money.  I know he's coming off the injury, but I think he's FAR more talented than Davis. 

I know rumors are that the Lions are going to tag him, but that seems like a poor investment for a team that is starting over. 

 

Edit: I'd rather have JuJu as well.

Edited by Todd from Utah
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On 2/26/2021 at 6:34 PM, Todd from Utah said:

Yeah, I want no part of Corey Davis. Obviously he was a high draft pick, but any time a guy doesn't break out until his walk year.....I'm skeptical.  He was decent his 2nd year and obviously just had a really nice season, but I wonder how much of that has to do with defenses selling out for Henry AND having an absolute freak on the other side to take up attention.

I'd rather spend a few extra mil and get someone like Golladay if we're going that route.  Its not like they wont have the money.  I know he's coming off the injury, but I think he's FAR more talented than Davis. 

I know rumors are that the Lions are going to tag him, but that seems like a poor investment for a team that is starting over. 

 

Edit: I'd rather have JuJu as well.

Davis is on a run 1st team which limits his targets more than opens things up for him.....I can see him being very good in the SF O ...Id love to get an A-Rob or Golliday but think they will be franchised.  I think more realistic targets will be Davis/Samuel which would be ok....

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We bottomed out as a franchise.  The thought of coming away with a non premium position out of this draft pick (or multiple assets as a result of a tradedown) is very disappointing to me.  Of course, there is no slam dunk edge rusher this year or even a CB that you can't say no to.  I'm hoping they are blown away with their evaluation of Wilson, otherwise, the idea of moving down a few slots (and then maybe taking Pitts) is way more appealing to me than most other things on the table that don't include trading for Watson.  

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On 2/26/2021 at 10:46 AM, Kiddnets said:

Anyone see Kiper's new mock draft?  Jets trade down with Atlanta for more picks and draft the stud TE Pitts at #4.....He think Saleh sees him as a Kittle type weapon that is very rare to get....pretty early for a TE as the earliest ever before I think was #6 but if they think his upside is Kittle/Kelce why not...Jets have never had such a weapon at TE....then they can grab a WR in FA and go with C Davis/Samuel type to pair with Mims, Crowder....Id be ok with that.  

I think pundits try to get too cute with things like this. New HCs do not need to completely replicate the team they left behind.

With that said, Pitts would likely be one of the top WRs in this class if he was listed as a WR instead of a TE - so I wouldn't have a ton of issues with the pick.

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I have to say, I don't think I've ever been more torn about what the offseason plan should be. Losing out on Lawrence just opened so many different doors for the future and I'm truly not sure which one is right.

Obviously QB looks to be a huge need for this team, and my non-belief in Sam has been documented here, but I'm just too nervous about getting Fields or Wilson wrong. Neither seem like slam dunks to me. I'm reluctantly back in the camp of building this team up this offseason and giving Sam one last chance with a decent o-line, upgraded weapons and (hopefully) competent coaching. If he looks anything but "very good" then next offseason the team can address the future at the position.

Under this scenario I am perfectly fine with drafting Sewell and moving Becton to RT where he did start his college career and has the size and run blocking ability to succeed there. We'd have four more years before needing to worry about the cap ramifications of paying two LTs. I really want a dynamic RB in the mix as well - something this team has not seen in a while. A solid running game is also a way to limit Darnold's impact. I'd also thing a veteran backup QB  would be important so that the offense can continue to be worked on should Darnold fall flat.

With that said, if Douglas and Saleh (and staff) think Wilson or Fields are franchise level QBs then I will be on board with going in that direction.

As far as free agent WRs are concerned, my preference would be Allen Robinson (but I'm not sure the Bears don't at least franchise him). I have a nagging feeling that they may just come up empty there though as I'm not sure the market will look as flooded after franchise tags are handed out. I'm also not a believer in Corey Davis and I think that will ultimately be a bust signing wherever he ends up.

Basically I'm very excited and for the first time in a while. I'm willing to give the GM and HC the benefit of the doubt and just observe where this offseason goes.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I have to say, I don't think I've ever been more torn about what the offseason plan should be. Losing out on Lawrence just opened so many different doors for the future and I'm truly not sure which one is right.

Obviously QB looks to be a huge need for this team, and my non-belief in Sam has been documented here, but I'm just too nervous about getting Fields or Wilson wrong. Neither seem like slam dunks to me. I'm reluctantly back in the camp of building this team up this offseason and giving Sam one last chance with a decent o-line, upgraded weapons and (hopefully) competent coaching. If he looks anything but "very good" then next offseason the team can address the future at the position.

Under this scenario I am perfectly fine with drafting Sewell and moving Becton to RT where he did start his college career and has the size and run blocking ability to succeed there. We'd have four more years before needing to worry about the cap ramifications of paying two LTs. I really want a dynamic RB in the mix as well - something this team has not seen in a while. A solid running game is also a way to limit Darnold's impact. I'd also thing a veteran backup QB  would be important so that the offense can continue to be worked on should Darnold fall flat.

With that said, if Douglas and Saleh (and staff) think Wilson or Fields are franchise level QBs then I will be on board with going in that direction.

As far as free agent WRs are concerned, my preference would be Allen Robinson (but I'm not sure the Bears don't at least franchise him). I have a nagging feeling that they may just come up empty there though as I'm not sure the market will look as flooded after franchise tags are handed out. I'm also not a believer in Corey Davis and I think that will ultimately be a bust signing wherever he ends up.

Basically I'm very excited and for the first time in a while. I'm willing to give the GM and HC the benefit of the doubt and just observe where this offseason goes.

Agree with most here Doc

There are so many roads/options and I am ok with most if thats what JD decides....while his 1st FA class was not good (and I think he was short arming it for this year) - he nailed the draft so I trust his evaluation - look at all these options - all of which are franchise changing....

Watson - would give the Jets 1st franchise QB since Joe but would definitely be a high cost....im ok with up to 3 1sts but draw the line with Q...the #2 pick must be viewed as a premium...have a feeling Houston calls watson's bluff and this drags past the draft which would create more interesting options

Draft a QB - if JD feels that Wilson or Fields is too good to pass - Im ok with that 

Sams last stand - Im ok with this as well - would allow a trade down to add another premium pick this year and next - if hes good then they are set and build a much better team around him....if not they will have a ton of ammo to go after Watson again along with trading up for a QB.....but they will have a much better team in place

A trade down would probably add another 2d rder this yr and a 1st or 2d next yr....that may be too good to pass up and punt on QB for 1 yr to see what Sam can do

possible combos

Watson with likely limited high picks this yr, next and possibly 2023

rookie stud prospect with still #23 and #34 - I could see Wilson, an interior stud OL and a RB - that would be a huge upgrade

Sam (with trade down) - #4-9 stud (likely one of Sewell, Pitts, Chase to add to the O) plus #23, 34 and another pick #35-39....plus possible 3 1st rders next yr.....

So looking at the above....the Sam option is very enticing to me....add 4 of the top 40 players and have 3 #1 picks next yr would be a sure fire way to expedite the rebuild...of course QB is huge and if Sam flames out it puts them behind but with that team in place and that ammo it shouldnt be too hard to find/add a better option

So for me right now Im leaning keep Sam and trade down as best option (as long as they can get a haul)....then Watson (no Q) last option would be Fields/Wilson.....but like Doc I could get on board with all of the options....amazing times!  

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Just popping in to remind everybody that the Jets haven't had a positive EPA per pass play for any year this decade but the Fitzmagic year of 2015. Sam's club finished dead -- and I mean dead -- last this year in expected points added per pass play. To have a negative year is somewhat remarkable and can happen. To have had nine out of ten of them be negative is almost an unparalleled feat. So far, Sam has (almost certainly drunkenly) piloted them to a 30th place finish in EPA per pass play, a 31st place finish in EPA per pass play, and last year's 32nd EPA per pass play.

Jets need to start it over, and if not this year, then the next. Don't let the foolish media/scouting narrative fool you. The proof has long been in this pudding. Even Fitzmagic on a one-year deal would be better than watching Darnold again.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2021-nfl-free-agency-preview-players-to-target-ideal-plans-of-action-potential-cuts-and-more-for-all-32-teams

The EPA bar chart is at the link, hopefully not behind a paywall. If it is, my apologies.

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Was Josh McCown really our starting quarterback for 13 games in 2017? I thought I'd erased that from my memory.

His EPA was almost average that year, dwarfing Sam's. We've had such bad quarterback play we're just used to the abuse.

Stop the abuse. Please.

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Also, I just read Cimini on the Jets and their free agent needs. They're, according to his article, very unlikely to sign a running back or use high draft capital when they have so many other needs. He cites the same reason I did earlier this year: LaFleur's running scheme depends on speedy, one-cut runners that you can find late in the draft or as UDFAs. Perhaps they'll do something different and draft Etienne, but he's the only one of the big three I see them doing that with. He's the one whose skill set matches what Frisco did. Kenneth Gainwell as a third or fourth-rounder or Chuba Hubbard fourth or later seem like an ideal fits for the zone blocking scheme they're going to run. 

Edited by rockaction
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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Also, I just read Cimini on the Jets and their free agent needs. They're, according to his article, very unlikely to sign a running back or use high draft capital when they have so many other needs. He cites the same reason I did earlier this year: LaFleur's running scheme depends on speedy, one-cut runners that you can find late in the draft or as UDFAs. Perhaps they'll do something different and sign Etienne, but he's the only one of the big three I see them doing that with. He's the one whose skill set matches what Frisco did. Kenneth Gainwell as a third or fourth-rounder or Chuba Hubbard fourth or later seem like an ideal fits for the zone blocking scheme they're going to run. 

I dont think they would draft a RB high - but I can see one of the 3rd rd picks if there is a solid prospect there....I think they need a true game breaker and those can be found in the 3rd.  

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For what its worth - definitely hype season....

Chris Simms has Zach Wilson graded ahead of Lawrence....and says its clear....raves about the kid.  Before you laugh him off...he graded Mahomes the highest when he came out....didnt like Darnold and graded Herbert over Tua....so he has some legit hot takes in the past....

Lawrence hype is over at this point.....Im expecting Wilson hype to build and peak at his pro day at the end of the month.....all of this is great for the value of the #2 pick....

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Just now, Kiddnets said:

I dont think they would draft a RB high - but I can see one of the 3rd rd picks if there is a solid prospect there....I think they need a true game breaker and those can be found in the 3rd.  

San Fran found them about there. When NYRage was making his point about that San Fran had once had money tied up in backs (which was correct about a specific period in time) before the injuries struck them, the backs he was making that point about were those that they paid in free agency, McKinnon and Coleman. Those two guys were indeed both one-cut runners drafted in the third-round. So last year in SF, and more of what I was getting at back then, you had McKinnon and Coleman on the team as former third-round picks, Jeff Wilson who was an UDFA, Mostert who was a UDFA, and JaMycal Hasty, again an UDFA. The list goes on for them. I don't think we'll see heavy draft capital (first or second) used by these guys, though who knows? It's Saleh and Douglas's ship now, and maybe they surprise.

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1 minute ago, Kiddnets said:

For what its worth - definitely hype season....

Chris Simms has Zach Wilson graded ahead of Lawrence....and says its clear....raves about the kid.  Before you laugh him off...he graded Mahomes the highest when he came out....didnt like Darnold and graded Herbert over Tua....so he has some legit hot takes in the past....

Lawrence hype is over at this point.....Im expecting Wilson hype to build and peak at his pro day at the end of the month.....all of this is great for the value of the #2 pick....

Fields is moving back up, too. Hype for QBs is out of control. It's only going to build, and much ink and agony and many tears will be spilled over these guys.  If one is going to trade down, now's the year to maybe get a ransom. I'd be heartbroken, but that would all change if the Jets made a run at Dak next year with everybody around him cost controlled. 

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I dont know much about football, so my opinion isn't worth squat....but man Zach Wilson just scares the #### out of me. Just so many red flags in my mind

- Probably not as big as he's listed

- 1 year wonder (and a year where a lot of smaller teams were even less prepared due to COVID protocol)

- rich kid

- Poor level of competition, surrounded by a roster of 23-24 year olds.

Obviously there's plenty to like on tape. He constantly attacks down field. I like the way he moves in the pocket and re-sets his feet. At first look, it seemed like he was putting in a LOT of effort to get the ball out to the hash but now I dont feel that way. The arm strength is there.  I just see a LOT of throws that don't get completed if the cornerback had better offers than Texas State and Western Kentucky.

I respects Simms' opinion and its ballsy to put this out there. And when you hear him talk about, its clear that its not just a hot take. He believes it and provides evidence. I appreciate that.

 

Maybe I just dont like him becomes he looks like a cherubic little dweeb. I dont know. Maybe its just because I'm still upset they blew their shot at Lawrence. I'm not educated enough to say that Fields or Lance or whoever else is the better option, but this just seems like such a big risk.  It just stings that we have to take a risk on a non sure thing (I know that nobody is a "sure thing", but i think ya'll know what I mean) 3 years after trading up for Sam (who we still dont REALLY know for sure is terrible....thanks Gase).

So I'm the opposite of excited. I'm scared out of my mind.

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1 minute ago, Todd from Utah said:

So I'm the opposite of excited. I'm scared out of my mind.

I agree. If they don't get this right, I won't know what to do. I also do not know enough about football to judge these QBs. The pro scouts can't even judge these QBs. The last guy we saw sure of something was Andy Reid and Mahomes and you can't tell me that Reid just didn't get a whole lot lucky with that. Or maybe he did see something, which makes it worse. That there are guys out there that can see it, and we don't have it.

Enough on my end. Let's hope they do right. Your concerns about Wilson are all really valid ones. He came out of nowhere this year. He's already been dinged up. He's less athletic that Lawrence, Lance, or Fields. The competition question. The list goes on. It's no fun to be picking second this year.

I happen, in my layman way, to like him. I've come around on Fields, too. Too many people have said that he's waiting for his receivers to choose their routes according to the DB's positioning and that why he stands there so long like a statue. It looked to me like he wasn't reading the defense well. That's apparently very wrong. So who knows? Put faith in Douglas and Saleh and we'll hope.

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On 2/28/2021 at 10:47 AM, Kiddnets said:

Davis is on a run 1st team which limits his targets more than opens things up for him.....I can see him being very good in the SF O ...Id love to get an A-Rob or Golliday but think they will be franchised.  I think more realistic targets will be Davis/Samuel which would be ok....

I missed this. Davis was asked to block a lot and there is, as we know, no wide open game in TN to be had. Saw an interesting stat the other day that Davis ranked very highly in one of Football Perspective's metrics about opportunity share and production. As someone who rostered him in fantasy this past season, I can say he was excellent. Twenty-six and moving to a new team always sends red flags, as does his breakout age and health concerns, but he's a pretty good downfield receiver (not a burner) who has a bunch of untapped talent so far. 

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1 hour ago, Todd from Utah said:

I dont know much about football, so my opinion isn't worth squat....but man Zach Wilson just scares the #### out of me. Just so many red flags in my mind

- Probably not as big as he's listed

- 1 year wonder (and a year where a lot of smaller teams were even less prepared due to COVID protocol)

- rich kid

- Poor level of competition, surrounded by a roster of 23-24 year olds.

Obviously there's plenty to like on tape. He constantly attacks down field. I like the way he moves in the pocket and re-sets his feet. At first look, it seemed like he was putting in a LOT of effort to get the ball out to the hash but now I dont feel that way. The arm strength is there.  I just see a LOT of throws that don't get completed if the cornerback had better offers than Texas State and Western Kentucky.

I respects Simms' opinion and its ballsy to put this out there. And when you hear him talk about, its clear that its not just a hot take. He believes it and provides evidence. I appreciate that.

 

Maybe I just dont like him becomes he looks like a cherubic little dweeb. I dont know. Maybe its just because I'm still upset they blew their shot at Lawrence. I'm not educated enough to say that Fields or Lance or whoever else is the better option, but this just seems like such a big risk.  It just stings that we have to take a risk on a non sure thing (I know that nobody is a "sure thing", but i think ya'll know what I mean) 3 years after trading up for Sam (who we still dont REALLY know for sure is terrible....thanks Gase).

So I'm the opposite of excited. I'm scared out of my mind.

Throw in the he wasnt voted captain by his team mates issue as well....I still havent heard a reasonable explanation for it and I listened to a 25 minute interview with his college coach......I agree he is a questions mark but every QB coming out is...which is why Id be ok with trading down and getting a haul.....but if JD thinks the kid is the real deal then so be it.....

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

And it's true we don't know about Sam because of Gase. All we have is evidence pointing one way, nothing is certain. He could wind up in Pittsburgh winning SBs. Who knows?

Gase was literally a disaster that almost everyone saw coming except Chris Johnson.....it just put a cloud on the team and ruined Sam and most players development.....not that there were a ton of other great options but he was the worst by far and so bad that I am willing to give Sam one more chance who was bad as well.....

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What have been the explanations for not voting Wilson as team captain?  I haven't read or heard anything.  I was assuming it was because he wasn't that good until last year and had to compete for the starting job.

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3 hours ago, RC94 said:

What have been the explanations for not voting Wilson as team captain?  I haven't read or heard anything.  I was assuming it was because he wasn't that good until last year and had to compete for the starting job.

That would be the least hurtful answer, but man....how often is the starting QB not voted as a captain?  I can't imagine there's a resource to actually verify this, but I bet like 95% of college football starting QB's are team captains. (if not more)

BYU is kind of a different vibe obviously, so maybe there's a legit reason. But on the surface, it does look bad.

Edited by Todd from Utah
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53 minutes ago, Todd from Utah said:

BYU is kind of a different vibe obviously

This is probably Occam's razor here. Might have gone with seniority and missions. He may not be a Mormon.

I just read a long profile of him. He sounds pretty secular for a Mormon and wanted to go to Utah and Boise St. before choosing BYU. Describing himself as "not really a churchgoer," his mom had been noted to say "We hate BYU" before he went there.

I'm sensing this might -- just might -- have something to do with all of this. At the risk of offending anybody, I'm going to look at it like Jim McMahon, down to the headband and say that it's probably okay he wasn't captain at the school and that it's more feather in his cap than a knock on him.

Edited by rockaction
didn't want to offend "anybody," not wanted to offend "everybody"
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And for the record, even though my current persona is "from Utah", I know absolutely nothing about Mormons that South Park or our good buddy @Mad Cowdidn't teach me.

But yeah, its certainly possible that the captain position at BYU is generally given to guys who are very into the faith, (or even just guys who are older because they went on a mission) which would potentially explain why someone like Wilson wouldn't be given the honor.

 

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21 hours ago, RC94 said:

What have been the explanations for not voting Wilson as team captain?  I haven't read or heard anything.  I was assuming it was because he wasn't that good until last year and had to compete for the starting job.

The coach had a pretty bad explanation when interviewed - kind of stammered....said he was on the leadership counsel so it was just as good....mentioned older players at BYU....I didnt get a warm fuzzy feeling but maybe he couldnt go into the religious reasons or he would look bad or hurt his program....

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Anyone catch JDs presser....made a point to say he is taking calls on Sam....most interpret that as Sam's gone....def could be....but I take it as he is open for business and will be taking a QB at #2 unless the offers blow him away.....very good to have Sam as an option if they are lowballed.....so far I think JD is playing this perfectly....even put out the fire lit by Maye's agent....who BTW I have no problem franchising vs a long term deal...the guy is 29 already 

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Franchise tag for Maye. I dont hate it.  The guy turns 29 tomorrow and they dont want to be in a bidding war without a safety net. (no pun intended)

I'm cool with kicking the can down the road for a year if they can't come to a reasonable 3 year deal.

 

The number is only $10.5M. I figured his annual average over a 3-5 year deal would be at least that. So this is just smart business.

Edited by Todd from Utah
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Twitter feed today is alive with suitors for Sam and draft dirt on the Jags.

Anybody hear that the Jaguars have used two their allotted five Zoom visits with Zach Wilson and that Schottenheimer has been talking him up a bit?

It likely means nothing, but that would really take the cake, wouldn't it? If Trevor Lawrence somehow fell to the Jets in the draft?

Holy cow would they ever be in the catbird's seat if that happened.

And now Prescott is signed. That'll dominate all the news.

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28 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

They had Lawrence in the bag and blew it.  They should have tanked.  Integrity be damned.

 

You're preaching to the choir here, my friend.

Jacksonville was running Mike Glennon out there. That's all you needed to know.  Not saying that Minshew is any good, but his ability to make plays out of nothing made him a much better option for a team with little talent that was trying to win.

Of course, they WEREN'T trying to win, which was smart.

The whole situation just sucked. And every day, some other member of the media was talking about how the Jets shouldn't tank and how "you play to win" and all that stuff. Funny how you NEVER hear that in other seasons when other teams were crapping the bed. The media LOVES having the Jets as a punching bag.

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  • Dr. Octopus changed the title to 2021 New York Jets: I’m as confused as Wilson looked on Sunday

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