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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
Interesting article about Brandon Copeland teaching an introductory finance class at the University of Pennsylvania.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26047951/professor-cope-nfl-linebacker-offseason-job-teaching-life-101
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26047951/professor-cope-nfl-linebacker-offseason-job-teaching-life-101
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rockaction
Footballguy
I always liked Moncrief but he just hasn't been able to put it together. Back a few years ago, when Fitz was playing with the Jets, the Colts and Jets played a Thursday night game and Moncrief ran roughshod on the Jets' secondary. I liked him then, but he's really done nothing since.Dr. Octopus said:
It would be an interesting reclamation project depending upon what he's asking.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
He played well this year. Keep in mind who his QBs were. Just awful.
I think he could be a decent WR2-3 for another team, but is not a good fit on our team unless as a 4th WR.
WR2 is filled with Anderson. WR3 is Enunwa. WR1 is missing on this team. We need a threat that can run multiple routes as our lead WR. That's not going to be Moncrief. He's too expensive for WR4.
WR2 is Anderson and I like his speed threat. In the middle we have Enunwa in the slot who can beast if he stays healthy plus Herndon at TE. We're just missing that main stud at WR (well in addition to a good threat at RB and our crappy o-line....sigh).
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Was just coming into posting about trading down...
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26096968/jets-looking-deal-no-3-pick-draft-haul
Lots of holes to fill, but seeing as how the top rated non-QBs in the draft are edge rushers, probably there.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26096968/jets-looking-deal-no-3-pick-draft-haul
Probably an edge rusher. The pass rush was atrocious and our GM doesn't like building the offensive line with high draft picks. At all. We need a number one receiver, an edge rusher, some help in the secondary, etc.
Lots of holes to fill, but seeing as how the top rated non-QBs in the draft are edge rushers, probably there.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Edge makes sense with the need and what will be available. After that they need to get Darnold support.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think either EDGE or one of the top receivers. Ideally, they'll trade down and pick up an edge guy and a WR to go along with Anderson and Enunwa.
That's the hope, I think.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
D.K. Metcalf? I don't think they'll do that. I think they'll take a pass rusher at three. I'm seeing mocks where the Jets are all over the board.
Maccagnan tipped his hand today by talking about trading down. You want teams to think they need to pry the pick from your hands like guns, death, and Charlton Heston.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It might mean they aren’t having any serious offers for it and are trying to get the word out.
rockaction
Footballguy
That was something I had considered. I wonder what Jimmy Johnson's trade value chart says the third is worth vs. the seventh (Jags) or the sixth (Giants) both of whom might be looking to trade up to get their quarterback.
eta* At three, I keep seeing Bosa from OSU and Allen from KY.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’m not a fan of sticking to a chart because in every class the value of the picks changes a bit. Some years a team might just have to be willing to accept less if they want to move.
Bosa, Allen, Q.Williams all make sense. If there’s an OT they love, it would be a strong choice as well.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, situations and roster composition can often determine what a pick is really worth (the old market-based supply and demand argument) rather than what is ostensibly a top-down price-setting chart, but JJ's chart seems to be a good guideline, and one to which teams will often stick.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Chart-wise:rockaction said:
Our first is worth 2220. The 6th pick is worth 1600. The 7th pick is worth 1500.
So trading with the NYG is worth a late first which they don't have, so it's the 6th overall plus their 2nd and a 4th round picks. We might have to throw in a 7th.
Trading with the Jags is worth a late first and a 4th which they don't have a first either, so the 7th overall plus their second and third round picks.
Or if they're desperate, we would hopefully get them to pay closer to what we paid last year which was a lot more than the chart estimates.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
There are no No. 1 WRs in free agency and with no second round pick getting one in the draft will be unlikely. I’m not advocating for Moncrief at all, but the reality is no matter what they do they’ll be trotting out WR2/3 types at each slot, unless they do something dumb like trade for Brown and give away picks.NYRAGE said:
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Was just coming in to post this....great news for the top 3 picks value....Murray definitely in play as a top 3 pick and now teams may panic to get into the top 3 to make sure they get Murray or Haskins....if both land top 3 that leaves Bosa or a big trade down for the Jets....win/win!
NYRAGE
Footballguy
I hear you and I agree that he would help, BUT I don't think that he would move the needle especially for his price. I rather not waste cap space on average players at modern FA prices. We can probably find a WR later in FA at a much cheaper cost. I would rather spend that money on the 0-line and maybe 1 premium free agent.
We don't have a second round pick yet. Even if we did, do we trust this GM to get it right?....but i digress.
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Even if someone trades up to 1, that pushes someone down to 3 at worst. You know that QB hype will grow throughout the next couple of months. Always does.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If the Jets can get Josh Allen or Joey Bosa, I'm not even sure they should trade down. Pass rush is the second biggest priority on the team.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Agreed unless they get a nice price to move back 3-4 spots. There is plenty of pass rush help early in the draft.
Steve Wyche on Path to the Draft said that there's lot of talk at the Combine about the Jets with interest in FA Roger Saffold.
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
I'd probably take Bosa unless blown away with an offer....and its possible...Jets have a way of great players dropping to them.....if they sign a stud pass rusher in FA then it gets real interesting....though pairing a stud like Lawrence/Clowney with Bosa/Allen may be too good to pass up!
Grahamburn
Footballguy
The problem with any of those teams trading out of the top 3 is they then take themselves out of the running for Allen, Williams, or Bosa. I would think the offer would have to be insane for AZ or SF to move off those top 2 picks. Same goes for the Jets. If you come off the 3rd pick you aren't getting Bosa or Allen.
I see the top 3 sitting tight. Oakland and Tampa are the hot spots for a trade up.
I see the top 3 sitting tight. Oakland and Tampa are the hot spots for a trade up.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I think all 3 teams at the top are devoid of talent...it would likely take a haul to get to #1 but are Williams and Allen really that elite where a second this yr and next wouldnt be enough for a trade down for either from 2/3 to 6/9? Unless its Bosa sitting there I'd rather take the 2 2d rders and grab best offensive player OL/WR in the 1st and newly acquired 2d.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Tony Pauline (Draftanalyst.com) says that we're showing a ton of interest in both first and second tier pass rushers. If we get one, then we can trade down for extra picks and target OL & CB. Greedy WIlliams (LSU) would be a target. Hmm, I think Jet Nation revolts if we pass up offense for a CB.
We're also very interested in FA CB Bryce Callahan of the Bears.
We're also very interested in FA CB Bryce Callahan of the Bears.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Perfect in that they’ll likely end up being able to keep him at a team friendly price (as I don’t see teams giving up the second) and if not they can just draft a WR with the second round pick they get (insert a joke about Mac’s second round pick track record here).
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Combine workout time! This is always fun for a few days.
A couple of articles on ESPN and the NY POST about how we need to fix our our o-line and how McCags has neglected drafting it. Hmm, haven't we been saying that for years? Well, better late than never I guess. It sounds like we are going to try to address G and C in Free Agency. Not much at tackle which makes sense. Those guys are almost never available in FA unless NE decides not to pay top dollar for them.
A couple of articles on ESPN and the NY POST about how we need to fix our our o-line and how McCags has neglected drafting it. Hmm, haven't we been saying that for years? Well, better late than never I guess. It sounds like we are going to try to address G and C in Free Agency. Not much at tackle which makes sense. Those guys are almost never available in FA unless NE decides not to pay top dollar for them.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
They havent spent a 1st rd pick on a non-QB for well over a decade...it's an absolute travesty considering how top offensive players are rarely available in FA and the way the league has transitioned to an offensive one.....the Jets made their last run with a solid defense but also had a very good offense even with a mediocre game manager in Sanchez....it all started with the Brick/Mangold draft....a LT/C stud combo like that just isnt available in FA and it was ridiculous that they completely ignored it....NYRAGE said:
Im not saying draft offense no matter what an ignore the value - but if they get a pass rusher in FA they should try hard to trade down and pick up some offensive players....protecting Sam is #1 and right now they have an OL that is bottom barrel. I really dont want another interior "stud" lineman after The Leonard Williams bum out....if pass rusher is needed and there then fine....but otherwise I really want the trade down and go WR/OL....a RB can be found in the 3rd rd if they dont land Bell or Coleman. Q and Robby Anderson are mid level #2/3 Wrs at best...Sam needs a tall athletic stud as a go to with some solid OL in front of him....rest can wait or be addressed later.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’m ok with the plan to avoid Bell and target a second tier RB. The more I look at it that $100MM in cap space is a mirage. Only 1/3 of the roster slots are under contract right now so that money is going to dry up really quickly and dedicating $15MM of it to a RB doesn’t seem that wise.
If we somehow get the line up to even mid-pack, a Tevin Coleman, Eli McGuire and rookie backfield is more than enough. Coleman and McGuire are both capable in the passing game as well.
rockaction
Footballguy
NYRAGE
Footballguy
We can get by with Coleman, McGuire, and hopefully a decent draft pick.
It's interesting that we don't have a lot of interest in Bell because it's finally mutual. Didn't Bell say something a year ago or so $60m wasn't enough to play for the Jets? Then a month ago Jamal Adams tried to woo Bell, but Bell wouldn't respond.
Then there was the NY Post article in December: “He has his eyes on the Colts, no doubt about that,” the source said. “He sees Luck and that offense and all that cap room and they’re much closer than the Jets. He wants to go someplace he can win right away.”
Anyway, as we've said before, spending that much money on a RB seems dumb.
Did you guys watch the Combine? Holy moly those pass rushers looked sick! I guess we can trade down, but Josh Allen would look nice. We can finally get that ever elusive pass rusher.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I know the team needs picks and has so many holes but there’s a huge part of me that doesn’t want to trade down either - especially with the buzz about Murray going No. 1. Bosa or Allen are we what’ve been lacking for way too long now.
It’s a little overwhelming though how much this team really needs to do to be competitive.
rockaction
Footballguy
I wasn't that impressed with Allen's 4.64, but I don't know his other measurables and I also am not an expert in what people expect for a forty time out a big LB. That said, the DL guys looked sick in every drill and the forty times. I'd rather see an EDGE guy out of the DL candidates, frankly.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
The board gets a bit clearer every few days.....some thoughts as we move post-combine and closer to FA....
Seems like Jets are not in on the best playmakers in Brown or Bell....doesnt upset me too much but it looks like another year without a stud on offense....I understand that the $100M will not be unlimited especially with all the empty roster spots but whats the point of having all that cap space if you dont get at least one stud....I suppose Mac will be looking to spread it around on slight upgrades....Im not sure Coleman/Maguire combo is any better than the Crowell/MAguire combo from last yr.....Montcrief doesnt exactly put the WRs over the top....and the OL on the mkt would upgrade the OL to competent instead of putrid....I dont think any of the stud pass rushers make it to FA....I have a feeling they land Fowler who is ok but not exactly a game changer....so walking out of FA if they land Coleman, Paradis, Montcrief with a few starter level pieces I hate to say I'd be feeling bummed....I'd like to see them land at least one game changer on either side of the ball....
Draft/combine - looks like the draft is a DL/pass rush bonanza....With Murray buzz growing stronger it looks like Bosa or Allen falls to them at #3....if thats the case it would take a blockbuster offer to entice a trade down....I dont see the Giants trading up...JAx likely will have Foles...Denver Flacco....not dealing with the Fins....I think Wash lands Rosen....not seeing a good match for a trade down - pass rushers never are available in FA so despite taking defense almost every yr in the 1st rd since the freaking merger Bosa/Allen would be the likely value at #3.
The blueprint is just not playing out like I had hoped.....but its early and Im just getting my usual negative vibes out....hoping Im wrong and some studs shake free to FA or a trade Im not seeing yet materializes for a playmaker or 2....
Seems like Jets are not in on the best playmakers in Brown or Bell....doesnt upset me too much but it looks like another year without a stud on offense....I understand that the $100M will not be unlimited especially with all the empty roster spots but whats the point of having all that cap space if you dont get at least one stud....I suppose Mac will be looking to spread it around on slight upgrades....Im not sure Coleman/Maguire combo is any better than the Crowell/MAguire combo from last yr.....Montcrief doesnt exactly put the WRs over the top....and the OL on the mkt would upgrade the OL to competent instead of putrid....I dont think any of the stud pass rushers make it to FA....I have a feeling they land Fowler who is ok but not exactly a game changer....so walking out of FA if they land Coleman, Paradis, Montcrief with a few starter level pieces I hate to say I'd be feeling bummed....I'd like to see them land at least one game changer on either side of the ball....
Draft/combine - looks like the draft is a DL/pass rush bonanza....With Murray buzz growing stronger it looks like Bosa or Allen falls to them at #3....if thats the case it would take a blockbuster offer to entice a trade down....I dont see the Giants trading up...JAx likely will have Foles...Denver Flacco....not dealing with the Fins....I think Wash lands Rosen....not seeing a good match for a trade down - pass rushers never are available in FA so despite taking defense almost every yr in the 1st rd since the freaking merger Bosa/Allen would be the likely value at #3.
The blueprint is just not playing out like I had hoped.....but its early and Im just getting my usual negative vibes out....hoping Im wrong and some studs shake free to FA or a trade Im not seeing yet materializes for a playmaker or 2....
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Just to talk you off the ledge a bit, but the bolded is exactly how the Pats have maintained their success - of course they have Belichick and Brady as well. They don't throw huge contracts at players but rather fill out an entire rosters with good to very good players.Kiddnets said:
If Sam is the real deal then he should be able to turn receivers into stars and not need star WRs - look at the Pats, Green Bay, Seattle and Saints for examples. I know those QBs are all on another level - but the point is if the QB is legit, things fall into place.
The key is improving the o-line (which is easier said then done). While Coleman, McGuire and random rookie isn't much better than last season, it's more than adequate. Coleman has game breaking speed - and it all comes down to a better line and a better passing game.
Moncrief (or Humphries) plus Anderson, Enunwa, (a third or fourth round rookie) and Herndon isn't loaded but it's a bunch of guys that are good in their specific roles and it's an improvement over last season. It gives Sam talent to work with and it's up to him to improve his consistency.
If they sign a good CB to replace Skrine, Maye stays healthy and they add a stud pass rusher in the draft, with Gregg Williams's aggressive style this could be a top 10 defense.
The free agency rush is exciting in it's way but how many teams that win the offseason, end up winning in-season. It's not the way to build a team. I like Bell a lot and I still won't be upset if they do go out and get him - but I just don't think he'll make a major difference on his own and will eat up cap space that they need.
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
not sure that helps me off the ledge lol - I view the Pats as a complete anomaly.....Brady makes any OL/WR and RB look good and Belichick can coach up a mediocre defense to old world....Jets dont have either of those luxuries....I still think they need playmakers and studs to help Sam.....even the best QBs need studs - Aikman: Emmitt, Irvin.....Montana: Craig/Rice...Luck: TY Hilton.....Ben: Bell/Brown.....etc....Sam needs some big time players and I just dont see Coleman and Moncrief as much better than what they had last yr...yes Bell would be overpriced but he has proven to be a difference maker who can turn nothing into TDs....not only run well but also be a great safety outlet for Sam....would love to get that stud WR as well but unless they trade down they'll have to wait one more yr......
If they add the top Center and Guard with Bell that is the best they can do this offseason to transform the offense....there would still be more than enough $ to go around and they can grab Bosa/Allen to make that defense playoff ready now....next offseason they can add a LT/WR combo and now they would be playoff ready on both sides of the ball with 3 yrs left on Sam's rookie deal....
NYRAGE
Footballguy
HIs post made me actually want to jump off the ledge. I've been against Bell, but after seeing our likely options, I'm leaning towards signing him. lol. I rather have an overpaid difference maker than likely overpaid average guys like Coleman and Moncrief. Give me 2 linemen and Bell for the offense.
Catbird
Footballguy
I think Bell as a Jet star is a mirage. He was behind a top 2 or 3 OL in PIT and won't be by a long shot in NY. His per carry numbers were already trending down last year from 4.7, 4.9, 4.9 in 2014-2016 to 4.0 in 2017 when he last played (which itself is pretty awful behind that line). He isn't going to have Ben throwing to him or defenses fearing AB and Ju Ju so they can't focus on stopping Bell. He's going to demand 5 or 6 years, so you'll still owe him for 2 or 3 after he's a 30+ year old RB likely making something over 10 Mil+ per guaranteed. Add in that his teammates in PIT have pretty much said good riddance to a player with that kind of talent (reflecting that he was a negative presence in the locker room) and I think there are a lot better things one can do with $100,000,000. Being unable to sign quality players in 2022 and 2023 because of guarantees owed an over-age, under-committed, self-absorbed waste of space would be SO like the Jets.
rockaction
Footballguy
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