I just saw that too - sounds legit.Take it for whats its worth but Carton is reporting on WFAN that Gase was told he is fired after Sundays game.......Carton does have sources in the Jets and I doubt he goes out on a limb like this with the new show unless confirmed.....
Exactly. The media and fans will not be kind if he has a bad September. But with a new system, it'll be his first few games in that system. Darnold and Douglas are both in tough spots. Darnold will have to start off decently in an entirely new and unfamiliar system. Difficult ask for a young QB who still has to make strides as a QB. Slightly unrealistic in my opinion.think about how easy they got off this year - no fans...no media in the locker room....next year will be much different...If Sam does get another shot I think JD should bring in some legit competition to push him. Looking at FA QBs there isnt much available though.
Also you are correct in that it would be a new system and tough to evaluate...that plus the option year issue may push JD to starting fresh.....definitely a tough call
My link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE&ab_channel=SoulCarrier77Take it for whats its worth but Carton is reporting on WFAN that Gase was told he is fired after Sundays game.......Carton does have sources in the Jets and I doubt he goes out on a limb like this with the new show unless confirmed.....
some really good points to think about here....the timing is just awful for Sam....add in the fact that he'll be a FA at the end of the season assuming they dont exercise the 5th yr option and it just makes it so difficult....the easier decision is to simply start fresh...new QB, new coach, new timeline reset with rookie contract...plus they get a pick for Sam. This would definitely be the easier choice and sell to the fans....way more patience in that scenario than bringing back Darnold.Exactly. The media and fans will not be kind if he has a bad September. But with a new system, it'll be his first few games in that system. Darnold and Douglas are both in tough spots. Darnold will have to start off decently in an entirely new and unfamiliar system. Difficult ask for a young QB who still has to make strides as a QB. Slightly unrealistic in my opinion.
To me, it makes more sense to start off fresh. Both for the Jets and the player. Darnold getting a fresh start somewhere would likely be beneficial for him. Maybe even sit a year behind a veteran. I'd like to see Darnold succeed as a player in this league.
As I think more about the option to "give Darnold 1 more year," how much are we really going to know after 1 year in an entirely new system? It just seems really easy to me for us to be back here a year from now saying "He flashed some and he's still young" and giving him the benefit of the doubt as he heads into Year 2 of the new system. What if he doesn't progress in Year 2? So we've wasted 5 years trying to determine if this guy is the franchise QB or not? Where do we draw the line? What are the parameters?
We've got 3 years of NFL tape here. I know Gase is Gase, but 3 years of NFL tape should show Douglas what he needs to know.
Maybe Douglas takes a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. For some reason, I just don't think he spends the #2 overall pick on a QB.
This entire offseason would've been 110% easier if they had the #1 overall pick. Trevor Lawrence is your new QB. You get your pick of HC candidates since we'd be a very attractive destination with Lawrence and a ton of cap. Ugh.
Im afraid he'll pull a Costanza and just show up the next day and act like it didnt happen.....he can review the Penske fileWhen most companies fire someone due to their inability to do their job, that is the last day for that employee. What kind of company fires someone like that but asks them to continue working anyway? Either wait until it's going to be his last day, or have an assistant coach week 17.
Im afraid he'll pull a Costanza and just show up the next day and act like it didnt happen.....he can review the Penske file
Im not delusional on Sam - I know where he is ranked....but in my eyes its just not that simple....Josh Allen would be terrible if he had what Sam did the past 3 yrs.
rookie year - worst coaching staff in league with Bowles; terrible OL, no solid RB, WR or TE to throw to - injured for few weeks as well
Year 2 - new coaching staff that is even worse than the previous regime, worst OL in the league, below avg Bell and still no WRs of note except Robbie Anderson whose more of a #2...freak mono diagnosis that sidelined him multiple games and probably affected the others as well
Year 3 - no real offseason or training camp....still worst coaching staff in league.....improved OL but worse WRs and RB positions.....shoulder injury thats not his fault as hes pile driven to turf and inexplicably sent back in by moron coach - Trevor talk going on all year.
That is an absolutely awful way to start a career....Sam is younger than Burrow. Hes an NFL baby....if Tannenhill can resurrect his career post Gase than I dont see why Sam couldnt.....the big issue is the contract...hes absolutely not worth $25M and he knows it....he has one year to show hes worth an extension and if not they cut bait....its a tough spot with a new offensive staff but Id argue it couldnt be any worse than the last one....
2021 possibly - Better staff with real NFL coaches....healthy...full camp/offseason...improved OL with vet Becton...possible FA stud and rookie stud....real running game with someone like Etienne....true #1 WR like A-Rob Rob, Golliday or Godwin....I could live with him getting one more shot to see what he can do with this situation
Fair........you would think Sam would show something more than he has.....a true franchise QB would rise above the mess and actually show more than mere flashes....I would say that in the examples you gave -This is an incredibly rational position to take. Nobody could argue that, on paper, the kid has been absolutely screwed.
But my eyes just tell me it isn't there. Maybe part of it is shell shock, but he just makes too many dumb decisions and fails to pull the trigger on guys that are wide open. It just seems like he's destined to be a guy that flashes moments of brilliance but will inevitably break your heart by doing something inexcusable. Physical/mechanical flaws aside, I just dont think he processes info fast enough.
And I look around the league and see guys that are less experienced, coming into situations that aren't ideal (maybe not as bad as Sam, but still bad) and just showing infinitely more poise.
Justin Herbert finds out he's stating 10 minutes before kickoff...comes into the game and takes the superbowl champs to overtime.
The Eagles are in absolute shambles but Jalen Hurts has come in and provided a spark. A win over New Orleans and two 300 yard passing games in his first 3 starts. (although, to be fair, he's completing a terrible percentage)
Hell, Brett Rypien looked MILES better than Sam when he played against the Jets (although things obviously went off the rails late with the picks)
I would take balls the size of Metlife stadium for Douglas to pass on a QB at 2 (or wherever they trade down to) and stick with Sam. He'd basically be betting his career on a guy who has been the worst starter in the league for 3 years...who he didn't draft....who basically the entire world is telling him to bail on.
I hate hate detest detest Carton with all my heart and being and so what he says means jack squat to me typically.Take it for whats its worth but Carton is reporting on WFAN that Gase was told he is fired after Sundays game.......Carton does have sources in the Jets and I doubt he goes out on a limb like this with the new show unless confirmed.....
I disagree about Allen. Even in his rookie year when he could challenge Hackenberg for accuracy, Allen had the "it" factor. He could rise above his conditions and steal a game with his running ability. How many times did he escape and break tackles and actually won a few games for his team? I remember him doing it against the Jets.Im not delusional on Sam - I know where he is ranked....but in my eyes its just not that simple....Josh Allen would be terrible if he had what Sam did the past 3 yrs.
rookie year - worst coaching staff in league with Bowles; terrible OL, no solid RB, WR or TE to throw to - injured for few weeks as well
Year 2 - new coaching staff that is even worse than the previous regime, worst OL in the league, below avg Bell and still no WRs of note except Robbie Anderson whose more of a #2...freak mono diagnosis that sidelined him multiple games and probably affected the others as well
Year 3 - no real offseason or training camp....still worst coaching staff in league.....improved OL but worse WRs and RB positions.....shoulder injury thats not his fault as hes pile driven to turf and inexplicably sent back in by moron coach - Trevor talk going on all year.
That is an absolutely awful way to start a career....Sam is younger than Burrow. Hes an NFL baby....if Tannenhill can resurrect his career post Gase than I dont see why Sam couldnt.....the big issue is the contract...hes absolutely not worth $25M and he knows it....he has one year to show hes worth an extension and if not they cut bait....its a tough spot with a new offensive staff but Id argue it couldnt be any worse than the last one....
2021 possibly - Better staff with real NFL coaches....healthy...full camp/offseason...improved OL with vet Becton...possible FA stud and rookie stud....real running game with someone like Etienne....true #1 WR like A-Rob Rob, Golliday or Godwin....I could live with him getting one more shot to see what he can do with this situation
Oof. I once switched my Survivor pool pick to Green Bay at the last minute when Ponder had to make an emergency start for Minnesota. Easiest pick 'em ever.Sam is awful. He has a worse ANY/A than Christian Ponder did.
Brutal to put the fanbase through a 2-14 or 3-13 season and the only significant change being to fire the head coach who deserved to get fired midway through the prior season. My goodness, what type of colossal waste of time was the 2020 season then?Don't Toews Me said:Keeping Darnold and getting him a new HC/OC is tough. You're asking the guy to make monumental improvements between now and next year as a QB while adapting and learning a whole new system. To be honest, it's tough to really evaluate it even 1 year into a new system as the QB generally is way more comfortable in a system in Year 2.
Douglas did have Darnold his top rated QB in the 2018 NFL Draft if I recall correctly.
This may not be what I would do, but I personally believe Douglas sticks with Darnold next year. But man, if he gets off to another rough start, the NY media and fans are going to be real rough on the kid.
Totally agree. Through week 10ish of this season, the Jets were on pace to be one of the absolute worst teams in the HISTORY of this league. Outside of a few OK looking pieces, we really don't have much beyond Becton and Q. This was the true bottoming out of the franchise. Within this, we'll come out of this season with the 2nd most cap space in the league, and quite a bit of draft flexibility. We also should have had the best QB prospect incoming but that doesn't need a rehash.Brutal to put the fanbase through a 2-14 or 3-13 season and the only significant change being to fire the head coach who deserved to get fired midway through the prior season. My goodness, what type of colossal waste of time was the 2020 season then?
Good points. 100% agreed.Brutal to put the fanbase through a 2-14 or 3-13 season and the only significant change being to fire the head coach who deserved to get fired midway through the prior season. My goodness, what type of colossal waste of time was the 2020 season then?
Happy new year as well - lit feels like we are at the end of a 2 year nightmare...this group has been great in getting me through it - really good stuff in here the past year...at least in losing Trevor it gives us a bunch of scenarios to debate through the next few monthsFirst off Happy almost New Year to my goombas here on the FF Guys board. You guys have helped make the nightmare that has been 2020 a bit more bearable with some of your comments, insights and at times some laughs.
That said and how's this for a change of pace. For the first time since forever or at least since the Denver game, us Jet fans, now that the Trevor Lawrence dream was officially kiboshed last week with the Browns win and because it's supposedly a done deal that Gase is going to be gone on Black Monday, it's safe now and we can actually root for our team to win a football game again...imagine friggen that...lol
And for a win to be against Belichek and the hated Patriots at their place would make it that much sweeter. Let's do this. I haven't written this in forever but here goes.....Go Jets!!!....
Its a hug game for Fields....hes already falling in the mock drafts....QBs usually get momentum so it needs to start with a big game vs Clemson...if he has another bad one he may drop out of the top 10....its good for the Jets and pick if he lights it up so ill be cheering for him while trying not to get depressed watching TrevorGonna watch the Clemson- tOSU game tomorrow and TRY to find some sort of silver lining. Hopefully Fields shows something, but I'm not optimistic. He's big and athletic and has a big arm, but I just dont think I can get comfortable with a QB coming out of that system. By all accounts, he's basically been a one-read and tuck it guy, which works at OSU but not in the NFL.
His "weaknesses" (per pretty much every scouting report I've read) are basically a laundry list of things that I DONT look for in a QB.
- Has never been asked to look for his 2nd and 3rd reads
- Isn't especially precise with ball placement
- Enjoys a huge talent advantage across the board in pretty much every game he's ever played. Constantly has WIDE OPEN receivers (even by college standards)
Gonna go into it with an open mind, but its tough. And I expect Lawrence to absolutely light up the OSU defense.
I'm not a huge college football fan, so I haven't seen too much of Fields, but a bit more of Lawrence. I'll defer to the experts when it comes to analyzing college talent.
However, while Lawrence was always considered the generational talent, I remember when people were saying that the gap between Lawrence and Fields was very small. Some even debated whether Fields could become the top pick. They were often described as 1 and 1A.
Fields has 2 bad games in a Covid 2020 season and he's suddenly falling like crazy and people are nitpicking every fault. Players have been out. It's a weird schedule. I'm not defending him because honestly, I don't watch enough college football to say, but JD may have a different evaluation of his career than the recency bias that we're witnessing. Even in the 3 INT game, I think Fields threw 3 tds and ran for 80 and a td. Anyway, tomorrow's game will be huge, but the QB evaluation process is far from being settled.
If Fields has a bad game, then Wilson for sure becomes the #2 QB in everyone's eyes (poor Trask after last night). PFF is all over Wilson now, but I have my doubts about their analysis in general. The thing is to separate Twitter "scouts" from real scouts.Oh, for sure. Certain guys tend to get nitpicked for one reason or another. (I'm still trying to figure out what the hell Deshaun Watson did to cause him to fall to #11) So...as I said....after the initial shock/heartbreak of losing Lawrence, I'm going to watch tomorrow with an open mind.
Every player is different....but the next time OSU produces a good NFL QB will be the first time, so I'm skeptical. Just awful timing for Fields to have a stinker, combined with the unfortunate public crash and burn of Haskins. But again....they're 2 different guys.
Fields will have every opportunity to stand on his own and prove that he truly is that 1A guy. Not saying he's gotta throw for 300 yards a game and win the national title these next 2 weeks, but if he throws for 200 yards and 2 picks and they get blown out tomorrow night, my enthusiasm will drafting him will be basically zero.
So 0% that we choose a QB at 2?Sorry fellas and luv ya but I disagree with y'all. I'll repeat what I've said all along, just do not think Joe D is taking a QB with the 2 pick...just don't. None of them are good enough to warrant a pick that high even if Fields has a good game tomorrow or if Wilson continues to be the cat's meow!
As I said a few times, Sewell is the guy we either will take or we will make believe we are going to take him so that a bidding war can potentially ensue and if Joe D can get a haul to move down a few spots, I think that's the way it's going to go down. Now maybe there will be a team or two who fall in love with Fields or Wilson as well and they'll bid as well and also come to Douglas and offer a sweet deal.
Either way, we are in a great spot and to be frank, we really can't lose here especially because we have a GM who knows how to evaluate talent and who knows how to work the system.
If I had to say one way or the other what we are going to do it would be 60% chance we stay at 2 and pick Sewell.....40% we deal down somewhere in the top 10 and get a haul. I'm OK with either scenario and that's mostly because it's Douglas who is orchestrating it and I trust him more than any GM we have had since Parcells was doing the shopping.
We apparently agree and I do believe that is the route he will go. I'd truly be shocked if Douglass feels either Field or Wilson are worthy of a pick at #2 as in it would blow my socks off shocked. He's either taking Sewell or trading down. I gave my percentages just before...it's 60-65% he picks Sewell....35-40% he trades down. As of right this very very minute, I think i want Sewell unless Joe D can get the motherload.If Douglas grades a qb as a franchise qb he would be foolish not to take him at 2. But taking a qb for the sake of taking on at 2 makes zero sense for the Jets. This is a rebuild. It can be a short rebuild due to cap space and draft picks but it’s still a rebuild.
Taking Sewell at 2 would not be a bad move at all.
OK you never can say 0% and so maybe I embellished a bit. Here's the revised %'s.So 0% that we choose a QB at 2?
It's way too early, but I'll say:OK you never can say 0% and so maybe I embellished a bit. Here's the revised %'s.
63% we take Sewell
33% we trade down
4% we take Fields or Wilson
In all seriousness Rage, I'd be beyond shocked if we picked one of those QB's at #2. They simply aren't worth it too us. Sewell tho is. Trading down is.
Andy Dalton 7/7 btwIf Fields has a bad game, then Wilson for sure becomes the #2 QB in everyone's eyes (poor Trask after last night). PFF is all over Wilson now, but I have my doubts about their analysis in general. The thing is to separate Twitter "scouts" from real scouts.
JD and his guys might see something in Fields or Wilson that they love or think is correctable. We just don't know. Plus the position is pretty difficult to project. It's pretty hit or miss.
Parcels had his 7 rules:
1 Be a three-year starter.
2 Be a senior in college.
3 Graduate from college.
4 Start 30 games.
5 Win 23 games.
6 Post a 2-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio.
7 Complete at least 60 percent of passes thrown.
Far from perfect, but it looked pretty good for last year:
Justin Herbert, Oregon
Three years as a starter? Yes
Is he a senior? Yes
Did he graduate? Yes
Did he start 30 games? Yes, 42 games
Did he win 23 games? Yes, 27 games
TD-INT ratio at least 2-1? Yes, 95-23
Completion percentage over 60? Yes, 64 percent
7/7 criteria met
Jalen Hurts, Oklahoma
Three years as a starter? Yes
Is he a senior? Yes
Did he graduate? Yes
Did he start 30 games? Yes, 42 games
Did he win 23 games? Yes, 38 games
TD-INT ratio at least 2-1? Yes, 80-20
Completion percentage over 60? Yes, 65.1 percent
7/7 criteria met
Joe Burrow, LSU
Three years as a starter? No, two years
Is he a senior? Yes
Did he graduate? Yes
Did he start 30 games? No, 28 games
Did he win 23 games? Yes, 25 games
TD-INT ratio at least 2-1? Yes, 78-11
Completion percentage over 60? Yes, 68.8 percent
5/7 criteria met
While it worked well for last year's class so far, I don't think that would have worked for Mahomes or Murray. Anyway, JD has his work cut out for him. Whether Lawrence turns out to be great, that was the easy choice that no one would have questioned. Now things are pretty difficult.
Now that we’re all on board with them winning this week, expect for the Pat to blow them out.First off Happy almost New Year to my goombas here on the FF Guys board. You guys have helped make the nightmare that has been 2020 a bit more bearable with some of your comments, insights and at times some laughs.
That said and how's this for a change of pace. For the first time since forever or at least since the Denver game, us Jet fans, now that the Trevor Lawrence dream was officially kiboshed last week with the Browns win and because it's supposedly a done deal that Gase is going to be gone on Black Monday, it's safe now and we can actually root for our team to win a football game again...imagine friggen that...lol
And for a win to be against Belichek and the hated Patriots at their place would make it that much sweeter. Let's do this. I haven't written this in forever but here goes.....Go Jets!!!....
That would be the "Jet like" thing to have happen.Now that we’re all on board with them winning this week, expect for the Pat to blow them out.
Are we supposed to root for Ohio State, since Fields could possibly be our QB?
Where does this mythical winged creature come from? Dallas? Philadelphia? Because it sure won't be the draft if they're any amount respectable.the new QB would walk into an awesome set up.
Yeah I'm bumping up my % that the Jets take him at 2 from 4% too 6%. He does look good tonight at least thus far in the 1st half.So far Fields’ stock looks to be on the rise..
Definitely don't want Fields. That took a game or two of watching to figure that out.
Zach Wilson's the guy.