Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yes, I was one of those - but not because I liked Sam. I'm just leery of Fields or Wilson (but that's probably just Jet history working against me).
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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Good to have you back Rage....good analysis - agree with all
I really wanted Linsley too - we have been spoiled with fantastic centers for 2 decades...I hate that its a liability now....I think he was too old for JD...seems to be targeting much younger players which I can understand
The watson sage is crazy....timing of these lawsuits and the McNair connection is so strange...its not too hard to speculate that the ownership is torpedoing any interest so he has no choice but to stay....I thought it was a longshot before this happened....now I think its over. Pro Days 3/26 and 30h for Wilson and Fields....should be must watch. Hype usually grows after a good showing....
I really wanted Linsley too - we have been spoiled with fantastic centers for 2 decades...I hate that its a liability now....I think he was too old for JD...seems to be targeting much younger players which I can understand
The watson sage is crazy....timing of these lawsuits and the McNair connection is so strange...its not too hard to speculate that the ownership is torpedoing any interest so he has no choice but to stay....I thought it was a longshot before this happened....now I think its over. Pro Days 3/26 and 30h for Wilson and Fields....should be must watch. Hype usually grows after a good showing....
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Now that would be interesting....WR market seems to not be as crazy as thought...JD swooping in if there is value.....Davis/JuJu/Mims would be really good....I would assume Crowder is cut.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
After JD's presser, I think dreams of Watson died. He's not going to give up all those draft picks that he loves so much.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Although I didn't want Juju because of maturity issues and plays the slot which actually was our strongest WR position before we added Davis, he's an upgrade over Crowder.
Crowder is a good player, but older with an injury history. JuJu at least seems like a willing blocker which is needed in this offense.
I still find it hard to believe that JD would sign Juju. Maybe the agent leaked this to drum up interest. We'll see.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
NYRAGE
Footballguy
I think it's his (the dad) former lawyer (and neighbor I believe) that is filing the lawsuits against Watson.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I think I'm rooting for him to go to you guys over SF. My understanding is that he is an elite run blocker, not just willing.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Yep - there is a connection with the owner...may be coincidental but it just doesnt look good....
Davis is a great blocker too....JuJu and Davis would be a big upgrade for pass and run game...would love this signing even though he has had some maturity issues. I think Saleh could manage that....
Balco
Footballguy
I think Cole was good low risk signing - can play inside or outside so brings that versatility. Mims was terrible, albeit in a small sample size, so Cole is a huge upgrade. Corey Davis and Cole on outside and Crowder in slot is not bad at all. No idea what they are doing at tight end but one has to wonder if they will take on in first four rounds. Tommy Tremble has the style of blocker 49ers offense likes. But they badly need a pass catcher there. Shocked they didn’t make offer to Hunters Henry.
Joe Douglas is horrendous with his O Line signings. Definitely not a strength. They need to upgrade big time and they struck out.
Joe Douglas is horrendous with his O Line signings. Definitely not a strength. They need to upgrade big time and they struck out.
LBH
Footballguy
NYRAGE
Footballguy
. Especially considering that he was a former lineman.
I like Cole a lot. Versatile. Can play inside and out. Can run the ball. Can return kicks. Pretty good blocker. Makes great contested catches. I think he's really underrated, but no one is going to be afraid of him. I saw one game last year where he had beaten his man three times for long tds, but giraffe-neck Glennon missed him badly every time.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’m shocked by this. He always talks it up. This SD center doesn’t have a great reputation. There’s still the draft but right now this would be my one complaint with what he’s done.
Balco
Footballguy
It’s a huge issue. That offensive line is horrendous and he hasn’t done anything to improve it in free agency. It looks increasingly likely they will draft QB at 2 so Sewell is out as possibility. Some decent interior o line prospects in second and 3rd rounds but all with questions. No idea why he is ignoring the O Line.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Cole was a very good signing for the $.....I still like Mims but Cole gives some needed depth with upside
I know Feeney was signed for depth but he looks awful. Charger fans were happy to get rid of him. I agree on JD striking out on the OL so far (besides Becton) - Im also shocked as this should be his forte.
They also signed a decent safety in Lamarcus Joyner - not a big endorsement for Ashton Davis who may be another whiff in the 3rd round. At least he was cheap
Still big holes at IOL, CB and RB....with all that money in this depressed market I have to admit Im a little disappointed so far....IOL doesnt look like it was possible but CB and RB were very possible. You just cant have that big of a gaping hole going into the draft. There is still time but that and $ is running out.
I know Feeney was signed for depth but he looks awful. Charger fans were happy to get rid of him. I agree on JD striking out on the OL so far (besides Becton) - Im also shocked as this should be his forte.
They also signed a decent safety in Lamarcus Joyner - not a big endorsement for Ashton Davis who may be another whiff in the 3rd round. At least he was cheap
Still big holes at IOL, CB and RB....with all that money in this depressed market I have to admit Im a little disappointed so far....IOL doesnt look like it was possible but CB and RB were very possible. You just cant have that big of a gaping hole going into the draft. There is still time but that and $ is running out.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Not necessarily. They didn't have any safeties other than Maye and Davis.
They just signed Tyler Kroft. Umm....I guess he can block better than Griffin who is probably a cap casualty.
As far as CB goes, I hear they like Dr. Octopus at the league minimum. He doesn't have the same speed as he had 20 years ago, but he's a sure tackler and probably can be a decent zone corner as long as he gets some safety help.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Tyler Kroft? meh.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Did you see what Pitt did with Juju? Structured that 1 year deal into 4 voidable years and spread out the signing bonus so that his cap value is less than $2m this year. Wow. Unreal.
JD is the opposite. Keeping the cap hits in 2021.
Anyway, P Lindsay to the Texans. There goes that dream.
Keanu Neal is allegedly choosing between Dallas and us. He is switching to LB.
Chemical X
Footballguy
so many holes, i don’t think 2 meh wrs, maybe a pass rusher, a terrible OL and awful LB will help much. douglas seems idzikesque, without the pressers.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
This is 2 poor FA classes for JD....last yr was atrocious...this yr is too soon to tell but even on its face its poor in that they had the 2d highest cap room in the league and they only added 2 legit starters.....thats just not acceptable IMO....I understand he is building through the draft but with the cap going to boom in 2 years with the new contract and no big time players to pay any time soon IMO he should have added more difference makers ala the Pats.
JD will make it or break it on the QB he chooses and the draft and he had a pretty solid draft last year so hoping the best is yet to come but a poor use of resources and a missed chance IMO
JD will make it or break it on the QB he chooses and the draft and he had a pretty solid draft last year so hoping the best is yet to come but a poor use of resources and a missed chance IMO
NYRAGE
Footballguy
I agree for the most part. We were really bad last year. Probably can't upgrade everything in one season, but yet it feels like we had chances to improve our starters a lot more with all that cap space and a lot of teams with limited room.
The good:
We probably got our top 1 or 2 choice at pass rusher, so that's good.
Upgraded at WR. Maybe Davis was his top choice. Young, ascending, good blocker. He got paid a good bit. Probably a fair price in most years, but feels overpaid in this market. Good #2 WR
Cole - Underrated WR. Versatile. I like him a lot Good #3/4 Wr. Way better than the crap we've had.
We needed help with our special teams, so the Hardee signing was good.
The who knows:
J Davis at $5.5 seems like an overpay coming off the past year where he didn't play much, but whatever if Saleh feels like he is a good fit and was mis-used in Detroit. Jayon Brown got a similar deal and has been a better player.
Joyner signing for $4.5m for our safety position is ok I guess as long as he plays safety. Offers some versatility and can play slot CB if needed.
Bad
The SD guard offers some versatility and replaces Andrews (another JD signing that didn't work out) Terrible center grade and not very good at Guard grades.
He didn't upgrade our guard or center position. Definitely drafting 2 linemen.
Hasn't addressed CB position at all. I think Sherman can still be productive and a leader. Probably drafting one at 23 or 34.
Had a chance to upgrade at TE starter, but didn't. Kroft is probably an upgrade to Griffin. Would have loved Jonnu. Everett would have least been competition to Herndon.
Still no FB which seems important to this offense.
Didn't add a RB yet. Lindsay went for only $3+million. Drafting one in the third or 4th round?
Probably need another LB. A converted Neal?
Probably need another pass rusher. Draft I guess at 23 or 34.
Structured every contract to absorb the most in 2021. With available cap space, that's actually a good thing unless you have a crappy team which we do. So, we had chances to upgrade the starting roster, but cheaped out and it impacts the product this year. I guess he doesn't think we will be a real contender this year.
By avoiding the o-line and CB, we need to use draft capital.
We all know that JD either doesn't care about kickers or just refuses to pay for one, but it's still a need.
Remaining Cap
They still have about $20m of cap room. They have the ability to gain cap space if needed for free agents, but it's likely that JD just rolls it over. He will need about half of that space for the draft picks.
They can still save $5.2m if they cut Lewis, $3.4m for Van Roten, and $10.4m if they cut Crowder, $7.9m for Fant. They can get $1.8m if they cut Griffin.
At this point, I think Fant stays even if they draft a tackle.
I think Crowder stays at this point. His cap number of $11+m is a lot, but I think he stays unless we draft a WR and someone really sticks out at camp. Curtis Samuel would have been a nice upgrade.
I think Lewis is a goner after we draft a guard. They will probably keep Van Roten around this year. Both could be gone, but we'll see. Griffin is probably gone.
rockaction
Footballguy
General thoughts:
Really thought we had a good start to free agency, and was expecting more. I'm confused by the Cole signing if there's no corresponding Crowder cut. Let's start there to fix the confusion into a tangible medium of expression here.
The offensive line is interesting. You'd figure that it would be the first thing that Douglas addressed, but to address it both years in the way he has causes one to wonder exactly what he thinks of the offensive line's role within the team is. I know Philly was heavily into analytics, and pioneering work is being done about sacks and what really is the quarterback's fault vs. the line's responsibility, but you'd figure he'd beef that thing up if they were bringing in Saleh. I know we weren't going to overpay for Trent Williams or Joe Thuney at those rates, and I'm really not sure who else was available, but it feels like a big need went unaddressed.
As far as TE or RB, I have absolutely no problem with not signing any of the available RBs on the market. I would have loved to have seen Gerald Everett in Jets green. He's a reasonable blocker and is great after the catch. Six million is nothing. Instead, we have the unexciting Kroft, who plods like plodders do.
The secondary situation was also unaddressed.
The draft will really tell what's going on with Douglas, I guess. Like A Tribe Called Quest once said, you can be white and groove, but don't crap the roll. Well it's the same thing with GMs and the draft. You can balk out of free agency, but there's no hiding the come out that is the draft. And the draft, especially this year, is a game of chance, to a degree. You can see free agency and not like anything in it, but you have all this draft capital that really tests one's mettle. Let's nail it and move on.
One prediction: I wouldn't be surprised if considering COVID, that JD punts here and gets picks next year in better rounds for his second or third round picks this year. There's no tape on these guys nor any baseline comparisons to make statistically or eye-test wise. An example of this is Trey Lance. He started one game for NDSU in the fall because that's all they were able to schedule, and then he decided to opt-out the rest of the year. And this is a top ten guy, most likely. That hardly puts one at ease selecting him. Yow. So don't be surprised if we get a big ole fat punt during the draft on some picks. That is all.
Really thought we had a good start to free agency, and was expecting more. I'm confused by the Cole signing if there's no corresponding Crowder cut. Let's start there to fix the confusion into a tangible medium of expression here.
The offensive line is interesting. You'd figure that it would be the first thing that Douglas addressed, but to address it both years in the way he has causes one to wonder exactly what he thinks of the offensive line's role within the team is. I know Philly was heavily into analytics, and pioneering work is being done about sacks and what really is the quarterback's fault vs. the line's responsibility, but you'd figure he'd beef that thing up if they were bringing in Saleh. I know we weren't going to overpay for Trent Williams or Joe Thuney at those rates, and I'm really not sure who else was available, but it feels like a big need went unaddressed.
As far as TE or RB, I have absolutely no problem with not signing any of the available RBs on the market. I would have loved to have seen Gerald Everett in Jets green. He's a reasonable blocker and is great after the catch. Six million is nothing. Instead, we have the unexciting Kroft, who plods like plodders do.
The secondary situation was also unaddressed.
The draft will really tell what's going on with Douglas, I guess. Like A Tribe Called Quest once said, you can be white and groove, but don't crap the roll. Well it's the same thing with GMs and the draft. You can balk out of free agency, but there's no hiding the come out that is the draft. And the draft, especially this year, is a game of chance, to a degree. You can see free agency and not like anything in it, but you have all this draft capital that really tests one's mettle. Let's nail it and move on.
One prediction: I wouldn't be surprised if considering COVID, that JD punts here and gets picks next year in better rounds for his second or third round picks this year. There's no tape on these guys nor any baseline comparisons to make statistically or eye-test wise. An example of this is Trey Lance. He started one game for NDSU in the fall because that's all they were able to schedule, and then he decided to opt-out the rest of the year. And this is a top ten guy, most likely. That hardly puts one at ease selecting him. Yow. So don't be surprised if we get a big ole fat punt during the draft on some picks. That is all.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Just took a look at what the Pats did.....there is definitely some overpays there but bottom line is they added around 10 starters that upgraded their team....most contracts have an out in 2 yrs....and they had only $50M to spend in FATLEF316 said:
Jets had $20M more and added 2 starters...thats just a really bad job of spending resources IMO. You can build through the draft but short arming FA really hurts the overall team. JD could have easily add at least 3 more much needed starter upgrades...you cant be stingy like the Steelers or Ravens when you have no talent. I mean the Giants had zero cap space and added a stud in Golloway and a monster extension with Leo Williams........maybe the IOL wasnt there but there was lots of CBs to buy....he should have grabbed one or even one of the TEs. JD seems to be to married to his "value" - like an auction drafter that goes home with money because he thinks everyone is overpaying....sometimes you gotta pay for talent and his pattern is emerging that he doesnt
Very poor FA period - they are on pace to have $80M in space in 2022 but who cares if he never spends it....not to mention the cap will go way up after the new TV deal so all teams will have more to spend...this was an offseason where they had an advantage over many teams and they blew it.....he better completely nail the draft and QB pick...
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Born to Run
Footballguy
The best path forward for the Jets would be to trade back in the 1st rd and accumulate as much talent as possible. Roll with Darnold this year and then take that early first next year and draft Solvis. That would give them a chance at a three-peat with USC QBs 
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Rankins is a nice upside add to the DL....I really felt the Defense was pretty good and with Saleh scheme it would be very good....with all these additions it could be elite if they got a solid CB...Id really hate to leave that to the draft
As for OL.....I dont know how they can send Sam or a rookie out with essentially the same shaky OL as last yr while adding perhaps a rookie starter.....
Balco
Footballguy
After looking at moves again I think Jets are doing a solid job when you keep in mind they have a lot of draft capital this year and next and that this isn’t a one year rebuild.
On defense, I think the Lawson signing was great, he is a young player who should be in his prime with Jets. Rankin’s whole issue has been health, but if they monitor his snaps, he is going to engulf blockers. And the Joyner addition at safety was very shrewd (played out of position last year). Jarard Davis was the only one that I don’t know where he fits but he is a great pass rusher so I am wondering if he becomes a pass rush specialist in nickel and dime.
It’s offense that still has a ton of gaping holes. Corey Davis was very good signing. Cole brings low cost versatility inside and outside. But then what? They punted tight end and that O Line remains arguably the worst in the NFL.
Assuming they go QB at 2 I will be interested to see what they pick next. I don’t think they should worry about running back until they get that Offensive Line settled and it’s become evident that it isn’t going to be this year. Maybe draft interior line with two of first 5 picks. No idea what they do at tight end.
On defense, I think the Lawson signing was great, he is a young player who should be in his prime with Jets. Rankin’s whole issue has been health, but if they monitor his snaps, he is going to engulf blockers. And the Joyner addition at safety was very shrewd (played out of position last year). Jarard Davis was the only one that I don’t know where he fits but he is a great pass rusher so I am wondering if he becomes a pass rush specialist in nickel and dime.
It’s offense that still has a ton of gaping holes. Corey Davis was very good signing. Cole brings low cost versatility inside and outside. But then what? They punted tight end and that O Line remains arguably the worst in the NFL.
Assuming they go QB at 2 I will be interested to see what they pick next. I don’t think they should worry about running back until they get that Offensive Line settled and it’s become evident that it isn’t going to be this year. Maybe draft interior line with two of first 5 picks. No idea what they do at tight end.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
So, let me see if I understand this.The best path forward for the Jets would be to trade back in the 1st rd and accumulate as much talent as possible. Roll with Darnold this year and then take that early first next year and draft Solvis. That would give them a chance at a three-peat with USC QBs
Darnold is the worst or second worst QB statistically in the league depending if we count back-ups that got a chance to start. He's allegedly been ruined by Adam Gase and lack of talent around him. However, the back-up QB outperformed him under the same situation. Let's pretend for a minute that there isn't consistent video of him missing wide open receivers (yes the ones that are terrible, yet open somehow) or making horrific decisions. Or getting hurt every season. Or entering the last year of his rookie contract.
Let's say that the new coaching staff magically gets him to improve from worst QB to..? Oh I don't know, maybe only 8th worst (and that's a lot of sorcery)? So if he still stinks, we should get a new QB in 2022. Ok, I think I got this scenario down.
Let's continue to explore this scenario.
So, we already have an extra first round pick, and extra third round pick, and an extra 5th round pick this year, plus another first round pick in 2022. We want to trade down to get more picks? Ok. Let's see what the QB picture looks like.
This year's QB draft is considered to be very strong and we're in position right now to take the best one after Lawrence (hell, take your flavor pick of Wilson, Fields, Lance, Jones, etc).
Next year is supposed to be a weak QB draft and with an improved roster, somehow we can finish anywhere from 8-12 in the draft order. Maybe even lower. So, now we have to trade 2-3 first round draft picks to move up to draft lesser QBs than we can already draft at 2 this year?
Or we could draft the best QB available in the next two years. Get additional draft pick(s) after we trade Darnold. Plus we can even trade down with our second first rounder this year or either of our two first round picks next year if we want even more draft picks.
Under no situation should we pass up on a QB with our second pick. The only way you do this is if you already have a sure thing at QB and no one in their right mind would think we do. All they have is some lottery-winnning-like hope of Sam improving to become a good QB. He probably will improve to some degree, but will he ever be better than mediocre?
TLEF316
Footballguy
I'd like to say "it all comes down to the qb" but at this point, the Jets have almost nobody to block for him (whoever it is) and nobody to carry the ball.
They improved the WR position (regardless of what I think about Davis, he's better than perriman) and the coaching can't possibly be worse, but there are still so many holes that you worry the new qb won't have the ideal incubator.
Not saying you need to try to "win free agency" as a rebuilding team, but they had the opportunity to add some additional pieces (like Phillip Lindsay) at very reasonable prices. Juju clearly had a different agenda, but you're gonna tell me Lindsay wouldnt have picked the Jets for a couple extra mil? His cap hit with the Texans of all teams is only gonna be like 3 mil
They improved the WR position (regardless of what I think about Davis, he's better than perriman) and the coaching can't possibly be worse, but there are still so many holes that you worry the new qb won't have the ideal incubator.
Not saying you need to try to "win free agency" as a rebuilding team, but they had the opportunity to add some additional pieces (like Phillip Lindsay) at very reasonable prices. Juju clearly had a different agenda, but you're gonna tell me Lindsay wouldnt have picked the Jets for a couple extra mil? His cap hit with the Texans of all teams is only gonna be like 3 mil
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RC94
Footballguy
I agree with you about going after good players at reasonable prices such as Lindsey. He would have helped the QB. This offseason has had several players like that, but the Giants are going after the big splash and overpaying for everyone. They have handed out some of the biggest contracts this offseason. It's the old Dan Snyder approach and we've seen how well that works out. I would have liked for the Jets to get Lindsey, but I'm guessing they are looking to the draft for a RB. I'd like to see them get a TE, but Ertz is still not traded and could wind up being cut so they can go after him. Overall the Jets have gotten some good players at reasonable prices, even though they did leave some value on the table by losing out on some others.TLEF316 said:
I'm hoping they trade Darnold and manage to get at least a 3rd round pick. They can take a QB at 1.02 and based on some mock drafts I've seen it looks like there could be good value at OL with their later 1st (23?). If they also get a good RB and another good OL prospect by the 4th round that could quickly transform this offense, which will really help the rookie QB develop. I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens with this draft.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Don’t forget that there are RBs out there still that have played in this new system with a lot of success like McKinnon, Breida and Coleman. Don’t be surprised to see one of them come aboard.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Im not looking for them to "win" free agency....just not leave it with gaping holes when they went into FA with the 2d highest in the league. I understand IOL was likely not a possibility with only 2 top tier studs available that went to better situations but there was a lot of CBs to land at a reasonable price...they have the money for it now and for some reason keep passing.....Im not a fan of leaving obvious holes in the lineup....Mac did it with the OL and look what happened to Sam. The current one isnt much better except for LT.RC94 said:
Something has to be done at CB or all these pieces are for naught as OCs will just throw it all day long.....there were also many RBs dirt cheap....you cant count on the draft for all these pieces and assume they will start/contribute right away....
hope JD has something up his sleeve
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
I think you are right but all of them have been terrible.....they may know the system but Id rather have Lindsey or one of the other RBs....and they werent that expensive at all.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Interesting....would be a huge curve in the draft if true....or maybe Davis is delivering a message from JD to get better offers lol
Corey Davis said he signed with the Jets understanding Sam Darnold would return as the team's starter.
It's quite the nugget from Davis, though it doesn't mean we now know what the team will do with the No. 2 pick in the upcoming NFL Draft. Jets general manager Joe Douglas has said he would answer calls about trading Darnold this offseason. Darnold returning as the Jets' starter would likely mean New York would trade away their first rounder for something resembling a king's ransom, throwing the entire draft into utter chaos.
Corey Davis said he signed with the Jets understanding Sam Darnold would return as the team's starter.
It's quite the nugget from Davis, though it doesn't mean we now know what the team will do with the No. 2 pick in the upcoming NFL Draft. Jets general manager Joe Douglas has said he would answer calls about trading Darnold this offseason. Darnold returning as the Jets' starter would likely mean New York would trade away their first rounder for something resembling a king's ransom, throwing the entire draft into utter chaos.
Balco
Footballguy
I think it could be true Darnold enters season as starter and the qb they select at 2 starts as backup.
If the draft is where they want their qb, next year is a disaster for QBs. But if they like a QB like Lance or Jones, trading down wouldn’t be a bad move at all. They should get a great offer for the number 2. Still a number of holes to fill on that team and could really get some quality players.
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