Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
Hit the ground running, no doubt! Not running the football, but the idiom.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Another one of McCan'ts misses,Edoga, will be kicked to the curb after this move. Maybe Sammy puts in a good word for him in Carolina (living rent free in my head, too).
I guess the coaching staff has no concerns about the scheme fit for Moses. If any of our bums can work out at right guard, this line will be majorly upgraded. Our depth, too.
Contract: 1 year $3.6m. Can go up to $5.3 with 80% playing time. Great deal.
I guess the coaching staff has no concerns about the scheme fit for Moses. If any of our bums can work out at right guard, this line will be majorly upgraded. Our depth, too.
Contract: 1 year $3.6m. Can go up to $5.3 with 80% playing time. Great deal.
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction
Footballguy
Awesome deal. Too bad we couldn't have gotten him for two, as that would seem to be the target year for the Jets, though this year looks like they consider it a target year the way they're bringing in guys on offense.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
They offered him a nice 2-year deal, but he preferred a one year deal so that he could become a free agent next year. I guess he's betting on himself to increase his value.
rockaction
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Its a fantastic value deal - but likely because its late June and most teams dont have much cap room....great job by JD to keep enough money and redo Crowder for this kind of flexibility but also smart by Moses to try again next year....Im sure if he produces JD will work on an extension during the year.....with Becton's injuries depth on the OL is a must.....thk goodness they finally have a GM that gets it!
NYRAGE
Footballguy
I don't want to get overly optimistic, but it really feels like we got things going in the right direction this time. To be rid of Maccagnan and Gase (and Darnold) is a blessing in itself, but as I was saying to Bloom on Twitter today, I really feel that this is it this time.
Everything is falling into place. A good GM. Seemingly a good coaching staff (tdb), and some good players. Plus plenty of cap space and a ton of high draft picks next year. We certainly deserve some good karma after all that we have been through.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I hear you.....Im usually optimistic with. a new regime....except Gase - hated that from the start lol.....but I havent been this confident in a long time....I really think this duo can be around a long time. Really hope Saleh is a good game coach because thats the only thing we really havent seen yet.
Develop the QB and coaching staff this yr.....huge draft next year with lots of prime picks and enough $ to add another 2 difference makers....if things break right this is the rebuild we've been waiting for and can put them on top of the division mix for years....Buffalo isnt the ld Pats...they can be beat.
Very excited for the season!
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Protecting Wilson this year is huge - they have time to keep building towards next year, and can re-sign Moses.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
For some reason I went back and tortured myself and re-read this thread to "re-live" the meaningless wins. With the perspective where I don't really care anymore about losing Trevor it wasn't as tough.
When I got to the part here where stupid Gase had Crowder throw a touchdown pass, it occurred to me that right now the only player on the Jets roster that has thrown a pass in the NFL is Crowder.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Zach probably takes care of that by the end of week 1 for you guys. How have the training camp reports looked? Decent? Overly optimistic? Correctly optimistic?
Seems like you've done a fairly solid job with your FA money.
May neither of our teams be sweating the top of the draft for some time.
-QG
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Reports on Zach have been mostly positive, but OTAs aren't necessarily a good indicator.
Zach probably takes care of that by the end of week 1 for you guys. How have the training camp reports looked? Decent? Overly optimistic? Correctly optimistic?
Seems like you've done a fairly solid job with your FA money.
May neither of our teams be sweating the top of the draft for some time.
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
of course but there is the occasional exception (the way the press seems to just be murdering Tua)
-QG
NYRAGE
Footballguy
The Miami Dolphins fan that took over for the infamous Manish Mehta as beat reporter for the Jets in the Daily News is another major troll. It seemed that he badly wanted the Jets to fail in OTAs and Mini-Camp so that he could troll Jets fans and gain notoriety.
Early in camp, he would report that Wilson was holding the ball too long while the other beat reporters waxed ecstatically about Wilson and his quick decision-making and getting the ball out quickly. Soon he gave that part up and went along that the Jets looked good, but he played it down as much as possible.
Camp reports from everyone else were mostly glowing. Basically they said that Wilson looked good and not just as a rookie QB. Definitely the best any QB has looked in Jets camp for years (which isn't saying much if you think about it).
E. Moore was reported to be looking like a stud in camp. Gaining separating easily and consistently. Showing lots of speed and the ability to run all kinds of routes. He made a lot of great catches.
Carter looked really talented, especially in the receiving game. Reports were pretty glowing.
Herndon was inconsistent. Kroft looked the best. TE will have to be solved in next year's draft/FA.
Mims was a back-up. C Davis was hurt, so he didn't practice.
Defensively, not too much was reported about the defense other than the young CBs looked look and that the Jets weren't looking to add a veteran.
Not much was said about the o-line other than concern about Becton's weight and feet.
Overall, it was very optimistic. Hope all is well in Bengals world.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Pausing to
before I continue reading. (just fun reading this fwiw I dunno who the new person is).-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Kroft as in Tyler Kroft? Yeah def a support TE not a consistent weapon (at least for a team heavily using the TE).
Lawson - man that one still stings ngl. Hoping Hendricksom from the Saints takes the sting away for us but you guys will absolutely love Lawson.
Bengals camp reports have been very positive too. Heck it's the first chance for Taylor to have a full normal offseason to prepare. Heck getting Pollack back to coach the O-line and losing walking disaster Bobby Hart is reason enough to be optimistic. If you're lucky your Jets will get to see him in action when you play the Bills.
-QG
Lawson - man that one still stings ngl. Hoping Hendricksom from the Saints takes the sting away for us but you guys will absolutely love Lawson.
Bengals camp reports have been very positive too. Heck it's the first chance for Taylor to have a full normal offseason to prepare. Heck getting Pollack back to coach the O-line and losing walking disaster Bobby Hart is reason enough to be optimistic. If you're lucky your Jets will get to see him in action when you play the Bills.
-QG
NYRAGE
Footballguy
From the Daily News site:Pausing to
-QG
DJ Bien-Aime II
DJ covers the New York Jets for the New York Daily News and was born and raised in South Florida. DJ was a D1 athlete at the University of Louisville, and when he isn’t focusing on stories, he can be a bit of a Madden junkie.
So, not sure how much you know about Manish Mehta. Definitely one of the most punch-able people on this planet. Major troll. Would write hit piece after hit piece with his infamous "unnamed sources" . He was in favor of the Gase hiring until it led to the firing of the GM whom we think was a source of stories. Then he went after Gase every chance he got (although that was just one of several targets over the years). He basically stalked the new Jets GM at his kid's softball game. He allegedly promised him positive stories if he fed Manish inside info. Anyway, the Jets took away his access and Manish was eventually taken off the beat.
There was a new beat reporter to the DN, but he was basically Manish's puppet. Manish would instruct him on what to ask and what to write. Eventually the guy got fed up, quit, and ratted Manish out. Manish got suspended and then fired.
This new guy DJ gets hired and at first he is very available to Jets fans on Twitter. He reveals himself as a Dolphins fan, but fans were ok with him at first. Then he started trolling on Twitter and you can already see the subtle digs and negative slants to his reporting. He likes his social media battles.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Nah, Ed only comes out when the cameras are out.Wait the beat reporter isn't Fireman Ed is it?
Okay continuing to read...
-QG
I guess the big story in Cincy is the health of JB's knee. It will be interesting to see if they can protect him. I remember all the hullabaloo about drafting Sewell, but then they went with Chase. At least the offense should be fun if Burrow is ready. I'll never forget Brady when he first came back from that knee injury. It took a while. Palmer, too, I think.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Oh the Mehta saga was a classic. Haven't heard all that about the new guy but that is too much
Adam the Bull seems to one of the rare ones that has been able to pull off the feat (although he spent some time in NYC as you might be aware Bull is (was?!?) a Bengals fan and it's pretty hilarious that his first main gig has been in Cleveland but he's made it work (presumably because he doesn't troll Browns fans)
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Yeah - so far it sounds like Joe is right on track and looked good in camp. He's gonna be there week 1. It is funny how the draft convo rolled but with a deep o-line draft Chase was just too good to pass up. Turner was such hot garbage as on O-line coach that that alone is going to matter. I know Pollack didn't light the world on fire with you guys but everything Gase touched dies so...(plus we have our own track record with Pollack). They drafted 3 OL so it's not like the position wasn't address. Bengals twitter was aflame with the whole Chase vs Sewell (with a handful of Pitts diehards) which actually made for a fun summer.
I plan to see for myself at the end of Semptember
Anyway I'll spy on in (less posty more spying) as I love the passion you bring to the table im the discusses here - you guys always mix it up good.cheers
-QG
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Kroft is a solid but unspectacular option. He's a good blocker as well, and has decent hands. Given the (theoretically, for now) weapons at WR, I don't mind having a guy like that starting over the inconsistent Herndon.
I had such high hopes for Herndon after his rookie season, not sure what happened there.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I was hoping Herndon was just Gased but his problems exceeded the awful coaching....lack of effort...drops...mental errors....he really needs to have a huge training camp or he is going to be gone....Kroft is a fine plug in and they probably use one of the top 4 picks on a TE if Herndon fails....he has talent so hoping he wakes up as the rookie season was very good.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
NYRAGE
Footballguy
You and me both. It's one thing when he's injured, but there is no excuse for last year. People like to blame Gase for everything, but man some of those drops and mental errors. I would be pleasantly surprised if he goes back to being that player we saw in his rookie year, but I've abandoned that hope for the most part.Dr. Octopus said:
We're going to have to use our WRs more in this offense. Mike LaFleur won't have a real FB (much less All Pro) or great TE (much less All Pro) to work with in this offense. He's going to be limited this year until maybe next year when we can draft a FB and two-way good TE. I think Moore is going to be a huge part of this offense even as a rookie.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Looks like the Jets and Maye are far apart and will not sign a deal by Thursday. JD has his values and won't overpay. Maye is good, but he's not great. Oh well. They will probably franchise him again next year (still a fairly low number) and draft his replacement with all of those picks that we have.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I like Maye but he’s not a break the bank player. I mean at some point they have to retain players but if he’s gone that leaves the money to help replace him and as you said they have the resources.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Agree with JD on this one.....while it is important to keep good players drafted Maye is older and plays a devalued position....I think hes asking for way too much and its just cheaper to keep him on the franchise this yr and next...let him walk when hes 30
I have no doubt JD will open the purse strings when Q and Becton are due....
rockaction
Footballguy
Interestingly enough, PFF lists safety as the third most important position on the football field, following QB and WR by their WAR (Wins Above Replacement) metric. This is counterintuitive to what I previously thought. It's interesting. For the NFL perspective, see below.
Under the current salary cap, these are the positions that get paid the most.
Position Top-10 Salary APY
QB $31,988,400
ED $18,867,133
WR $18,052,100
DI $17,401,867
OT $16,250,000
CB $14,524,333
LB $13,254,000
IOL $12,827,350
S $12,633,200
RB $10,461,244
TE $8,720,040
"If you draft an interior offensive lineman, safety, running back or tight end at the top of the draft, you’re basically already paying him like a top-10 player at his position. The inherent risk that comes with the draft pick then likely outweighs any cap savings you’d see by hitting on that pick. On the other hand, if you draft a quarterback, receiver or edge defender early in the draft and he hits, you’re paying less than half of what you’d have to pay for a good player on the open market. That risk has to be weighed alongside the certainty of one’s evaluation. Your “best player available” may not be close to the real “best value available” — and it’s value that wins championships.
While there’s no single way to build a winning franchise, the goal of PFF’s analytics is to try to exploit market inefficiencies in team-building whenever possible. By fully integrating the concept of positional value into one’s draft board — something that is 100% already being done by teams around the league — there’s a high likelihood that you’ll get a greater return on investment in the long run."
Basically, don't do what McCan't did, which was to draft a safety in the first. But the question here is not the draft, it is Maye, and their WAR metric certainly sides with the idea that he is important.
I think he's replaceable, but that's just me. I could see a nice contract headed his way. But that's usually for top box and coverage safeties, and I'm not sure he is both, really.
Under the current salary cap, these are the positions that get paid the most.
Position Top-10 Salary APY
QB $31,988,400
ED $18,867,133
WR $18,052,100
DI $17,401,867
OT $16,250,000
CB $14,524,333
LB $13,254,000
IOL $12,827,350
S $12,633,200
RB $10,461,244
TE $8,720,040
"If you draft an interior offensive lineman, safety, running back or tight end at the top of the draft, you’re basically already paying him like a top-10 player at his position. The inherent risk that comes with the draft pick then likely outweighs any cap savings you’d see by hitting on that pick. On the other hand, if you draft a quarterback, receiver or edge defender early in the draft and he hits, you’re paying less than half of what you’d have to pay for a good player on the open market. That risk has to be weighed alongside the certainty of one’s evaluation. Your “best player available” may not be close to the real “best value available” — and it’s value that wins championships.
While there’s no single way to build a winning franchise, the goal of PFF’s analytics is to try to exploit market inefficiencies in team-building whenever possible. By fully integrating the concept of positional value into one’s draft board — something that is 100% already being done by teams around the league — there’s a high likelihood that you’ll get a greater return on investment in the long run."
Basically, don't do what McCan't did, which was to draft a safety in the first. But the question here is not the draft, it is Maye, and their WAR metric certainly sides with the idea that he is important.
I think he's replaceable, but that's just me. I could see a nice contract headed his way. But that's usually for top box and coverage safeties, and I'm not sure he is both, really.
Last edited by a moderator:
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Definitely interesting....
its worth drafting an OL high because good ones almost never reach FA....you can usually find a good safety in FA.
I think Maye was looking for a $12M yr contract and JD was stuck at $8M....as we've seen, JD does not overpay....sometimes if backfires like it did with Anderson but for the most part its a good practice...
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, I was really surprised by the safety/WAR thing so it's not like a correction of something obvious. I couldn't really believe that safety rated third in WAR. Perhaps that's just because of safety scarcity or something, which you don't seem to think is a problem, and nor do I. Safety is definitely on the lower scale of getting paid, and you'd think the clubs have that sussed out, though maybe they don't. Maye is asking, it seems, for a top-ten salary. I'm not sure he's that good at the position. We'll see what JD does.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
No knock on you my friend, but perhaps there is one factor that might have something to do with it: It's PFF. Maybe JD should give them a call for some important guidance.rockaction said:
To this day, I'm amazed by their success. I give them credit for creating this product that filled a major hole in the market.
I'm not sure if you read any of the Jets blogs/sites. There is this one called the Jets X Factor. There are these 3 dweebs that push a ton of Jets content and their fairly well known by now. Basically 3 fans that look at film and stats. Just about every article is why our player (pick anyone on the 90 man roster) can be an All-Pro. They recently put out an article about our snapper being the most amazing snapper that every existed. They pick certain stats or highlights to support why every player is a potential stud. It's kind of comical, but hey, a lot of Jets fans follow them. Sometimes it's all about creating a niche, pumping out content and collecting profits until a better competitor comes along and squashes them.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
If the Jets start winning this year these topic titles are going to be so boring.
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh yeah, I've always taken your skepticism about PFF and thought about them a little more critically because of that. I'm not sure where they're getting their WAR/valuable statistic from. That's why I found it illustrative to see what teams are actually spending on, which they so nicely provided for a potential naysayer like me (and you). I'm not sure where their numbers and assumptions regarding WAR come from. They are certainly trying to find a niche in the market, that's for sure, with heavy investors and believers in prime time television to boot.
I don't read the Jets sites. I used to read Gang Green Nation, found it informative, but haven't really kept up with it. My main concern these days is fantasy, really, not the day-to-day grind of being a sterling example of a fan for one organization. I'm no longer wired that way. The last time I really followed Gang Green and the attendant articles and blogs were back when Fitzmagic was taking hold and inspiring in the heart of every defeatist a glimmer of hope. Then came Buffalo and missing the playoffs at 10-6.
Fun times.
Last edited by a moderator:
NYRAGE
Footballguy
I have full faith in Dr Octopus to come through regardless of our status. However, some of these other team boards that copied him feel like late stage beyond corny Chris Berman.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Philly -- amazingly considering that horrorshow of a thread, is pretty good with the titles.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Damn you're up early. Or maybe you're like me and have problems sleeping knowing that we have to face Darnold in week 1. Brian Burns said yesterday on Good Morning Football that Darnold definitely has that "dog mentality". If that doesn't keep you up at night, I don't know what will.
rockaction
Footballguy
Restless night in the Hotel California. You're right -- not much sleep here. Gave up an hour ago.
Toothless Sam, "dog mentality" or not, doesn't scare me like a ghost would, though that guy that insists he's living in my head rent free will probably disagree. Recently saw articles about how Sam was more comfortable out the New York media glare. No doubt, huh? Should be just fine down in Carolina going 6-11 or so this year.
All that said, I'm pulling for him. Barely. Just not in Week One. Can't wait to see Wilson, BTW. Should be interesting to see whether he can prove the football intelligentsia doubters wrong. It should at least be interesting to watch unfold, one way or another. I'm really pulling for that kid without hesitation. Go Provo!
NYRAGE
Footballguy
I gave up a couple of hours ago, too.
I'm definitely not rooting for him. We can get better draft picks the worse they do (and Seattle). After next year, who knows.
Wilson is a tireless worker. He's been working out with our guys in Florida. Everything we hear is that he breathes football. It all sounds great, but hopefully it pays off on the field. I remain hopeful and optimistic.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That may be the worst schtick on this board. Imagine posting in a player thread, and adding something of substance, meaning he's "living in your head". Just so dumb.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm only rooting against Sam because Carolina losing actively helps the Jets get better draft picks. He always seemed like a good kid. Just not a very good player who was saddled with a terrible situation.
Carolina fans will get pumped up over the handful of great plays he makes each year. And I'm sure 1 or 2 of them will crow about how they "stole" a franchise QB at some point this season....But he made enough moronic decisions to make me very comfortable with my belief that his failure was not 100% Adam Gase related.
As I've made clear....I dont believe in Wilson either. But at least its a fresh start and we have some hope. I'll be glad to eat crow on that one if it works out for us.
Carolina fans will get pumped up over the handful of great plays he makes each year. And I'm sure 1 or 2 of them will crow about how they "stole" a franchise QB at some point this season....But he made enough moronic decisions to make me very comfortable with my belief that his failure was not 100% Adam Gase related.
As I've made clear....I dont believe in Wilson either. But at least its a fresh start and we have some hope. I'll be glad to eat crow on that one if it works out for us.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Sorry to make you rehash, but this is a loooooooooong topic & I ain't got time for all that. Can you give me the CliffsNotes for why you don't you believe in Wilson?
TLEF316
Footballguy
No worries. I promised the group I'd do my best to keep my negative thoughts to myself (in the interest of positivity about the new regime) but the relatively short version.....
- He's slight of frame. I dont like small QB's. He's not TINY, but he's not stout.
- He was only good for 1 year. In fact, he was downright lousy as a sophomore. Pretty much the same amount of attempts as this past year but only 11 TD's and 9 picks.....against a schedule that was better (they played 3 ranked PAC12 teams plus Tennessee OOC) than this past season but still sub-par compared to most big time QB prospects.
- Going along with that weaker schedule, I think the BYU program was in a unique situation to succeed this year (compared to their MWC competition) due to the nature of their roster. Their team is full of 22-24 year olds, many of whom are married and/or LDS members. So they were simply better equipped to deal with the disruptive nature of the COVID season. Their lives weren't screwed up as much as guys at more traditional programs and I think they're more mature. They didn't care about not being able to go out to bars/parties or bang a bunch of jersey chasers. I think it was business as usual for them (or at least MUCH more so than any other school they played) And I think Wilson took advantage of that.
And finally, I think his stock was pumped up a lot by analysts and "experts" who dont want to miss the bus on the "next Mahomes".(just based on style of play with all the "off platform" throws) I dont think he's "the next Mahomes" or even a poor man's Mahomes. I think he's a fairly talented guy with a good arm who figure out how do a Mahomes impression against lousy teams. And I worry that he's going to come back to earth in a major way playing against real talent. I saw a lot of throws on tape (just in terms of his highlights. I'm certainly nothing close to an expert or an avid film watcher) that only got completed because they were thrown against a 19-20 year old DB from a lousy program in the MWC who didn't get his head around in time.
Add in the fact that now his mom is becoming a story/distraction (not a major thing, but just another annoying cherry on top of my skepticism sundae) and I just dont like his chances.
Again....nowhere near an expert and maybe my generally negative nature towards the Jets is clouding my through process. But that's what I see. The fact that the 49ers (who run the same exact offense) jumped right in and grabbed Lance immediately afterwards at 3....with no hesitation, makes me even more concerned. I know he has even less of a history and played even worse competition than Wilson, but he's much more athletic/powerful and I think he has a safer/more transferable combination of frame and skill set.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I appreciate your take. I've ready pretty much nothing but positives, so this lends some balance.
This quoted part doesn't really make sense though - if Wilson was on the board at 3, the Niners would have been thrilled. I've heard Shanny say they loved all 3 of the top guys on the board, so they took the one that was there for them.
The Niners jumping up to take the guy who's left can't really mean anything about how they felt about the guy who was taken a pick before them. That's kinda weird logic.
The rest certainly seem like valid concerns though & I appreciate your taking the time.
ETA: full disclosure, I'm a Niners fan, and a new Z.Wilson owner (got him in a Mahomes deal)
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
