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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (10 Viewers)

Dr. Octopus said:
all the guaranteed money is basically done now.
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There is still a $2m signing bonus per year to absorb, but let's call it a wash versus his salary that would have to be paid. Still, like I mentioned earlier, what team would be crazy enough to absorb over $5m in salary (plus another $350k in game bonuses)?

 
Kiddnets said:
The way he has been used I definitely agree.....if they would actually showcase him and show he's still got something to give - I could see a playoff team hit by injuries take him on in a few weeks when the pro rated hit goes down...most likely he will be here for the season though

gotta love looking up over the cap and seeing Quincy Enunwa and Trumain on the books for $15M this yr and $11M next yr!  
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Trade deadline is in 2 weeks, so that leaves 9 games out of 16 to pro-rate $9m ($8.5 salary + $0.5 in game bonuses) = $5 million in cap hit to the acquiring team.

That's an extreme long-shot that anyone would take that cap hit.  The Jets will end up releasing him in the off-season for the $9m cap savings.

 
NYRAGE said:
Trade deadline is in 2 weeks, so that leaves 9 games out of 16 to pro-rate $9m ($8.5 salary + $0.5 in game bonuses) = $5 million in cap hit to the acquiring team.

That's an extreme long-shot that anyone would take that cap hit.  The Jets will end up releasing him in the off-season for the $9m cap savings.
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likely scenario - what a shame.....he could have been a real weapon for Sam....I never understood why Gase disliked him so much.  

Bell has to stop the twitter whining as well.....he could have taken less and stayed in a great situation like Pitt....he decided to take the money.....and now no one wants to trade for him due to that money ....he made his bed.  Wait until he gets cut and those 1 yr $4M offers come in.......

 
Kiddnets said:
likely scenario - what a shame.....he could have been a real weapon for Sam....I never understood why Gase disliked him so much.  

Bell has to stop the twitter whining as well.....he could have taken less and stayed in a great situation like Pitt....he decided to take the money.....and now no one wants to trade for him due to that money ....he made his bed.  Wait until he gets cut and those 1 yr $4M offers come in.......
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Why Gase hasn't used him as a receiver is one of the greatest mysteries in life unless we apply Occam's Razor: Gase is simply terrible

 
NYRAGE said:
There is still a $2m signing bonus per year to absorb, but let's call it a wash versus his salary that would have to be paid. Still, like I mentioned earlier, what team would be crazy enough to absorb over $5m in salary (plus another $350k in game bonuses)?
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The $2M signing bonus pro-ration would be a non-factor since they have no intentions of paying him his salary next year so it's going to get absorbed one way or another.

The pro-ration of his salary and in game bonuses is an issue but it could be as low as about $4.4M if he got dealt right before the deadline which is not 2 weeks as previously alluded to but Nov 3rd, so he could have received half of his salary by that point.  If they traded him right now that would be just a tad over $6m, drops about $560K a week.

I don't see a situation right now  were a contending team has a major need for him but I don't think it's crazy that a contending team will view him someone they want to add at least before the deadline. If you think he's washed up then yes it's crazy, I do think he's a step slower but I think can still add value to a backfield with his versatile skill set. 

Also this a big thing to note but the money can be worked out. The Jets can convert some of his base to a bonus if they want to knock a little salary off the books and help their compensation, which won't be much.

I personally will be surprised, call it more shocked, if both he and Gase are members of the Jets heading into their week 9 game.

 
TLEF316 said:
For all we know, Bell is mostly shot from a talent perspective.  He's "only"  like 28.5 years old, but he wouldn't be the first elite back to fall off the face of the earth around that age. (shaun Alexander was MVP at 28, mostly sucked the following year and then was done at 30). So its possible that he's just not good anymore.

But Gase clearly had a bug up his ### about him from day 1. He's never even tried to utilize him properly. Just keeps running him up the gut behind a bad o-line.
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Mileage is normally a factor and he hasn't been given many carries the last few years.

 
menobrown said:
The $2M signing bonus pro-ration would be a non-factor since they have no intentions of paying him his salary next year so it's going to get absorbed one way or another.

The pro-ration of his salary and in game bonuses is an issue but it could be as low as about $4.4M if he got dealt right before the deadline which is not 2 weeks as previously alluded to but Nov 3rd, so he could have received half of his salary by that point.  If they traded him right now that would be just a tad over $6m, drops about $560K a week.

I don't see a situation right now  were a contending team has a major need for him but I don't think it's crazy that a contending team will view him someone they want to add at least before the deadline. If you think he's washed up then yes it's crazy, I do think he's a step slower but I think can still add value to a backfield with his versatile skill set. 

Also this a big thing to note but the money can be worked out. The Jets can convert some of his base to a bonus if they want to knock a little salary off the books and help their compensation, which won't be much.

I personally will be surprised, call it more shocked, if both he and Gase are members of the Jets heading into their week 9 game.
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Agree on the absorption, but I was pointing out that there were actually other cap impacts other than the salary.

Not sure about the date, but Yahoo had:

2020 NFL Trade Deadline Information

When: October 29, 2020

Time: All trades must be completed by the sharp 4 p.m. EST deadline

So it's either 9 or 8 games depending on which date is correct. Yup $562K per game remaining was my basis (at 9 games).

True, I was going to say that they could tweak his contract, but I just don't see a trade happening given need and cap space. A contending team would have to have a major injury in the next 2 (or 3 ) weeks to give up that kind of cap space that can be carried over into next season if the cap goes down to $175m.

 
NYRAGE said:
Agree on the absorption, but I was pointing out that there were actually other cap impacts other than the salary.

Not sure about the date, but Yahoo had:

2020 NFL Trade Deadline Information

When: October 29, 2020

Time: All trades must be completed by the sharp 4 p.m. EST deadline

So it's either 9 or 8 games depending on which date is correct. Yup $562K per game remaining was my basis (at 9 games).

True, I was going to say that they could tweak his contract, but I just don't see a trade happening given need and cap space. A contending team would have to have a major injury in the next 2 (or 3 ) weeks to give up that kind of cap space that can be carried over into next season if the cap goes down to $175m.
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I think you may be right on the trade deadline. I googled it and got Nov 3 but I'm seeing it listed in other places as October 29. Good correction to my post.

I still think it boils down to a team thinking he can help them or not. If they do I think his salary and a trade can be worked out, if we are talking about Jets just wanting a team to take on whole pro-ration of his remaining pay then a contending type team is going to need a RB injury to happen because right now I do agree that I see no team that would want to pay him $5-6M for the rest of the season. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
https://sports.yahoo.com/adam-gase-wishes-le-veon-bell-would-stop-liking-tweets-about-his-lack-of-usage-201537166.html
 

When will the madness end? 
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The correct answer is........  when Gase is fired.

 But to be fair, Bell is part of the problem too. He either A - has slowly lost his ability (or at the least its just a shell of what it once was) , and likely thats combined with B - lacks any desire to make the extra effort, for several reasons..... including being on a bad team and toxic environment.

I'm not a Jets homer by any stretch, but the best course of action here is to ####can Gase, and probably get what they can for Bell as well, at this point.

The only way you can fix the future, is start by fixing issues right now.  

Use Jamison Crowder   as a fine example.  Seems to be respected by the team and other players, gives it 100% (or seems to when healthy), contrast that to Bell and his noting of lack of usage tweets and has generally been unhappy for  2 seasons now.

 I'm not saying Crowder is a franchise player you can build a dynasty around, but signing players like that, that actually WANT to play ball and succeed is a good starting point.

 TZM

 
The more games pass the more I'm sure Gase won't be fired until right after the season ends.  Jets ownership is all in on tanking. To do that correctly you need the worst coach who actively makes his team hate playing.  Gase is just the man for that job.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
I know this is crazy but in lieu of the horrific injury to Dak and the leadership to take you to the promised land for Trevor Lawrence, why not trade Darnold to Dallas, not sure exactly what you could get but my thinking is that Dallas is good enough to where they won't be able to Draft a young QB and then develop them, that offense is built to win now and Dak is going to be gone a long time. Maybe Darnold couldn't help them as much this year but they have a cheap QB to teach him the playbook, he has a lot of game experience and then you can stock pile losses with Joe Flacco and get Trevor plus stock pile draft picks...follow my logic here?

McCarthy is going to want to keep himself working and there's no way he can sit back with Dak gone for 18+ months and Dalton as his main QB and just shrug his shoulders. He needs a reality check of where he is at, they need another arm to keep developing. That's just my overreaction today and would be interested in your thoughts, cheers Jets Fans. 
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It's an interesting thought process but not realistic Jets don't even know yet if they will have the #1 overall. And even if they do, I truly believe there is a better than 50/50 chance Lawrence will stay in school if faced with the prospects of being drafted by the #### show known as the NY Jets. 

Darnold is too young and talented to be given the Josh Rosen treatment. I still have faith in him and believe under the right tutelage, a gosh darn decent O-Line and some decent WR's who can stay healthy besides Crowder, he could become a solid QB. So though your hypothesis is interesting, I don't even see it coming to fruition. 

Besides, Andy Dalton is not the worst alternative you can have if your #1 guy is out for awhile as Prescott is. He's cheap and he's probably the best backup in the NFL. I think the Boys will ride with Dalton and they should be fine offensively. It's their defense that needs fixing if they want to be a contender.

 
Man In The Box said:
Even if you exclude Gase’s entire coaching history, one target for Bell in a game that the Jets were playing catch-up all day is a fireable offense on it own merit. I still can’t believe the Jets hired him in the first place. If they play this right, they will get the best QB prospect you could ask for. They’ll screw it up somehow though. 
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I'm telling you and I've said this a million times for awhile now and it deserves repeating, I am not convinced Lawrence even come out of school if the Jets have #1 overall. 

Think about it...why would he if he knew his chances of becoming a potential transcendental QB would be dashed by coming to an organization that always screws players up. 

All Lawrence would have to do is look at what has happened to Darnold to spook Lawrence into staying in school. Now I don't know Lawrence's financial situation but unless the Jets bring in some type of offensive mind that is appealing...let' say Bienemy for arguments sake before next years draft, I'd bet a fair amount of money Lawrence doesn't come out.

If that's the case, Douglass absolutely has to explore what kind of haul he could get from another team for the #1 overall. If he could get an RG3 type haul, than if I'm JD I think I deal the pick as this team needs so many pieces, this probably would be the best avenue to take.

 
Maximus* said:
Besides, Andy Dalton is not the worst alternative you can have if your #1 guy is out for awhile as Prescott is. He's cheap and he's probably the best backup in the NFL. I think the Boys will ride with Dalton and they should be fine offensively. It's their defense that needs fixing if they want to be a contender.
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I'm actually starting to believe Sam's upside is Andy Dalton. I know many things are stacked against him but look at a guy like Justin Herbert. San Diego has terrible coaching, a below average line and is not exactly stacked at the skill positions. Keenan Allen is great, but he left the game in the first quarter and Herbert still lit it up throwing to guys like Jaylen Guyton.

If Darnold is truly an upper level franchise QB he should be able to rise above his circumstances and show something. That's happened on maybe 2-3 passes this season all while still making dumb rookie mistakes. I want to believe in him so badly, but I'm just not sure he's the guy - and do we really want to pay $25MM to find out?

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
I'm actually starting to believe Sam's upside is Andy Dalton. I know many things are stacked against him but look at a guy like Justin Herbert. San Diego has terrible coaching and below average line and not exactly stacked at the skill position. Keenan Allen is great, but he left the game in the first quarter and Herbert still lit it up throwing to guys like Jaylen Guyton.

If Darnold is truly an upper level franchise QB he should be able to rise above his circumstances and show something. That's happened on maybe 2-3 passes this season all while still making dumb rookie mistakes. I want to believe in him so badly, but I'm just not sure he's the guy - and do we really want to pay $25MM to find out?
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A  couple of things. Chargers coaching staff is light years better than the Jets. I'd take Anthony Lynn and his staff in a second to help assist Sam. OC Shane Steichen who was QB coach and worked alongside Phillip Rivers has helped Herbert alot. He'd be great for Sam.

Even with Allen hurt and he's been healthy the whole season until after he scored that TD last night, the Chargers still have Mike Williams who I do happen to own and who has more talent in his left pinky than any Jet WR including Crowder. The also have Hunter Henry who is 10x's the TE Chris Herndon is and a guy who Herndon was supposed to be like.

 Their RB's even with Ekeler out, Kelly and Jackson are pretty damn good. So Herbert has plenty and I do mean plenty of weapons. Oh and their O-Line is much better than ours with guys like Pouncy at center and Balugga. 

You put Darnold on the Chargers, guaranteed he's putting up similar #'s that Herbert has been. Put Herbert on the Jets, and he's putting up Darnold #'s. 

Bottom line is until Darnold gets even a semblance of help from  his O-line and has some even half way decent weapons, we are never going to find out if he's going to be the real deal or even better than Andy Dalton. If he does, it's probably not going to be here unfortunately. 

 
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Maximus* said:
A  couple of things. Chargers coaching staff is light years better than the Jets. I'd take Anthony Lynn and his staff in a second to help assist Sam. OC Shane Steichen who was QB coach and worked alongside Phillip Rivers has helped Herbert alot. He'd be great for Sam.

Even with Allen hurt and he's been healthy the whole season until after he scored that TD last night, the Chargers still have Mike Williams who I do happen to own and who has more talent in his left pinky than any Jet WR including Crowder. The also have Hunter Henry who is 10x's the TE Chris Herndon is and a guy who Herndon was supposed to be like.

 Their RB's even with Ekeler out, Kelly and Jackson are pretty damn good. So Herbert has plenty and I do mean plenty of weapons. Oh and their O-Line is much better than ours with guys like Pouncy at center and Balugga. 

You put Darnold on the Chargers, guaranteed he's putting up similar #'s that Herbert has been. Put Herbert on the Jets, and he's putting up Darnold #'s. 

Bottom line is until Darnold gets even a semblance of help from  his O-line and has some even half way decent weapons, we are never going to find out if he's going to be the real deal or even better than Andy Dalton. If he does, it's probably not going to be here unfortunately. 
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I'm not saying the Chargers v. Jets situation is completely comparable - but he's showing more as a rookie then Sam is in his third season and he's not exactly in a top situation. I especially disagree about Lynn who is a terrible HC (but I guess anyone compared to Gase is an upgrade). I also think you're overrating the weapons because Herbert is making them look even better than they are. Josh Kelly and Justin Jackson? - I mean come on man.

 
Maximus* said:
How is he going to be a "savior" if he's running for his life all the time like Sam does with no weapons to throw too?...lol
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Because the Jets have a ton of picks and cap space to (in theory) improve the team. I also thing Lawrence has a high opinion of himself - which is a good thing for a franchise QB.

Frankly I'm just sick of the excuses and "free pass" Sam gets. I know he has it tough but what has he shown?

 
Dr. Octopus said:
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I'm not saying the Chargers v. Jets situation is completely comparable - but he's showing more as a rookie then Sam is in his third season and he's not exactly in a top situation. I especially disagree about Lynn who is a terrible HC (but I guess anyone compared to Gase is an upgrade). I also think you're overrating the weapons because Herbert is making them look even better than they are. Josh Kelly and Justin Jackson? - I mean come on man.
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I'm not saying Lynn is Belichek or even close but yes compared to the staff we have here, the Chargers staff is "Bill Walsh staff like" in comparison which is what I thought we were comparing....lol

Yes I do believe Kelly and Jackson are a pretty good backup tandem to Ekeler. And yes the Chargers O-Line blows away our O-line...it's not even close.

And what also is not even close is that when you see that Herbert has Allen, Hunter, Williams too toss the rock too players who by the way were very good too great before Herbert compared with the Jets, it's not even in the same galactic universe.

Herbert has been good no doubt. But let's not kid ourselves. He actually has a coaching staff that lets him do his thing...he has an O-line that gives him time to throw the rock and he has very good weapons to throw said rock too. 

I mean it's not even a discussion to be honest the comparison of what Herbert has to play with versus Sam. So yes put the two on opposite teams and you'd see Darnold much much closer to being the Sam we thought we were getting.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Because the Jets have a ton of picks and cap space to (in theory) improve the team. I also thing Lawrence has a high opinion of himself - which is a good thing for a franchise QB.

Frankly I'm just sick of the excuses and "free pass" Sam gets. I know he has it tough but what has he shown?
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Well you can be sick and tired as much as you want. It doesn't take away the fact that Sam has had just about as bad a hand of cards dealt to him than any top 10 drafted QB than I can ever recall. Horrific coaching. Horrific O-line. Horrific weaponry.

#### put Mahomes on the Jets and dealing with same circumstances as Sam  has, sure he'd be a bit better because he's simply a ridiculously talented athlete but he wouldn't be doing so hot either and he certainly wouldn't be "Mahomes"....period end of story!....lol

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Because the Jets have a ton of picks and cap space to (in theory) improve the team. I also thing Lawrence has a high opinion of himself - which is a good thing for a franchise QB.

Frankly I'm just sick of the excuses and "free pass" Sam gets. I know he has it tough but what has he shown?
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Its still New York market and huge financial upside....Giants were awful yrs ago and Eli refused to go to SD and orchestrated his way to NY....players and agents want the NY market.  Do you think he goes back to school a year and risks being drafted by Jacksonville at #1?  No chance......JD is much more respected in the league and players/agents will still want to come here with him as GM...plus they should have a much better HC in place, franchise LT to protect him next 10 yrs.... as well as a ton of $ and picks.....its not a bad situation at all long term....Mac/Johnson just really butchered it short term.  If Jets get #1 pick Trevor will be thrilled.....

As for Sam - I totally agree he got hosed....they did him no favors nor gave him a fair deck to work with....hes definitely better than rosen and if they get Lawrence he'll probably get traded for a late 2d rder to a solid organization that will straighten out his career.....just not worth the $20M yr nor has he shown enough glimpses to even think about passing on Lawrence....Herbert has shown more in 3 starts.  

 
Maximus* said:
Well you can be sick and tired as much as you want. It doesn't take away the fact that Sam has had just about as bad a hand of cards dealt to him than any top 10 drafted QB than I can ever recall. Horrific coaching. Horrific O-line. Horrific weaponry.

#### put Mahomes on the Jets and dealing with same circumstances as Sam  has, sure he'd be a bit better because he's simply a ridiculously talented athlete but he wouldn't be doing so hot either and he certainly wouldn't be "Mahomes"....period end of story!....lol
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There's no way to prove this or not but I suspect we'd be surprised in these "switch these guys" situations. Now of course Mahomes would not be nearly as good on the Jets but I think he could at least keep some drives going and on the flip side of course Sam would look better in KC but would he actually look like a stud? At this point I have doubts.

 
Mahomes makes that team, that team does not make Mahomes. Not even close. Herbert looks awesome.

Sam looks putrid on a putrid team. There's no accident about that -- it's rather fitting, actually. He's a guy that needs help. The others don't.

 
So Daily News has Bell officially on block.....I have been impressed so far with JDs trading.....never thought he'd get the haul for Leo and Adams but this is a true test.....

Trading Bell would get the heat off Gase for a few days anyway.....until he runs Gore 20+ carries Sunday 

 
@AlbertBreer

Sources: The Jets have been in touch with other teams in an effort to trade RB Le'Veon Bell (as

@MMehtaNYDN

reported). Sounds like they're willing to settle for a late pick and/or back-end player in return. Bell is due $6M (plus per-game roster bonuses) for the rest of '20.

Link

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I'm not saying the Chargers v. Jets situation is completely comparable - but he's showing more as a rookie then Sam is in his third season and he's not exactly in a top situation. I especially disagree about Lynn who is a terrible HC (but I guess anyone compared to Gase is an upgrade). I also think you're overrating the weapons because Herbert is making them look even better than they are. Josh Kelly and Justin Jackson? - I mean come on man.
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I agree with you 100%

 
Darnold got hosed by his supporting staff, coaching, etc. We can all agree to that.

However, you either rise above it or not. Sam can't.  I stopped making excuses for him this season. Watch the game/tape.

He makes some awful plays that have nothing to do with Gase or teammates. He has wide open guys at times and doesn't see them. He has an open man down field and runs out of bounds on third down. He takes sacks instead of getting rid of the ball on third down and fg range.  He forces plays for bad interceptions instead of throwing it away. Just dumb plays.

 
Yeah, if the NFL has shown us anything, its that if you have a QB, you can be competitive (in terms of pushing for a payoff berth) even if the rest the of the roster is mediocre at best.

Obviously the Jets roster isn't mediocre. Its the worst in the league. But if you're a good QB, you find a way to keep your team competitive. Sam hasn't done that. A lot of his mistakes have nothing to do with Gase.

Its obviously a chicken or egg scenario. Was Sam ALWAYS bad or has he been ruined? We'll probably never know. But he makes mistakes that 3rd year "franchise qb's" just can't make. I dont care who they have around them.

 
NYRAGE said:
Darnold got hosed by his supporting staff, coaching, etc. We can all agree to that.

However, you either rise above it or not. Sam can't.  I stopped making excuses for him this season. Watch the game/tape.

He makes some awful plays that have nothing to do with Gase or teammates. He has wide open guys at times and doesn't see them. He has an open man down field and runs out of bounds on third down. He takes sacks instead of getting rid of the ball on third down and fg range.  He forces plays for bad interceptions instead of throwing it away. Just dumb plays.
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100% - its one thing if his terrible WRs dont get open or drop the ball......but he has made a lot of disturbing mistakes for a 3rd yr QB....

 
rockaction said:
Mahomes makes that team, that team does not make Mahomes. Not even close. Herbert looks awesome.

Sam looks putrid on a putrid team. There's no acc

ident about that -- it's rather fitting, actually. He's a guy that needs help. The others don't.
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It obviously can't be done as I was discussing with Doc Octopus but I'd love to see Herbert on the Jets. He'd be doing jack squat and would be producing nothing like he has thus far. 

Same with Sam, put him on San Diego and he's lighting it up. It's what's going to play out in the long run anyways as it's pretty much a fait accompli that once Sam leaves here and goes to another club....oh let's say Pittsburgh for ####s and giggles, I'm betting he flirts if not is a Pro Bowler not that that is as big a deal as it used too be but you get the point. 

 
Maximus* said:
It obviously can't be done as I was discussing with Doc Octopus but I'd love to see Herbert on the Jets. He'd be doing jack squat and would be producing nothing like he has thus far. 

Same with Sam, put him on San Diego and he's lighting it up. It's what's going to play out in the long run anyways as it's pretty much a fait accompli that once Sam leaves here and goes to another club....oh let's say Pittsburgh for ####s and giggles, I'm betting he flirts if not is a Pro Bowler not that that is as big a deal as it used too be but you get the point. 
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Serious question: What is the basis for thinking Sam is good. I know he’s shown flashes here and there but most of those came during his rookie season and there were also plenty of bad moments then as well.

How could you say Sam would definitely thrive in San Diego? I mean that could be true but there’s nothing to really base it on.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Serious question: What is the basis for thinking Sam is good. I know he’s shown flashes here and there but most of those came during his rookie season and there were also plenty of bad moments then as well.

How could you say Sam would definitely thrive in San Diego? I mean that could be true but there’s nothing to really base it on.
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The flashes he's shown has given me confidence that he could succeed if he had the proper support around him. His game last year vs Dallas was a masterpiece and showed me that he could be THE GUY!. It helped that he had a Robbie to throw too. I loved his performances vs the Raiders and the last Dolphin game as he showed what he's capable of.

I'm not saying he doesn't F up...he does. But this year's team as presently constituted is not just worse but alot worse than even the 1-15 '96 Kotite Jets. That team at least had solid players like Chrebet, Keyshawn, Adrian Murrel, Jumbo Elliott, Hugh Douglass, Mo Lewis. Big problem with that team is that they had the corpse of Frank Reich and Neil O'Donnell I believe throwing the rock.

This Jet team I mean I can't think of one guy with the exception of Becton and Darnold who could even start on that 1-15 Kotite coached team. Now that's horribad and shows what a historically bad Jet team this is as it's ALOT worse than a 1-15 team from 25 years ago. Listen I have no empirical data that proves my point just like you don't. I know that I've seen enough flashes from Sam to feel reasonably confident he'd succeed with a team that gave him some WR's who can get separation, an O-line that would give him more than 1 second in the pocket where he could at least make 2-3 reads instead of just one and run for his life. 

Unfortunately as I said a few times, you Sam haters are going to get your wish soon enough as he won't be here much longer and he'll be having the success he should have had here somewhere else. I for one am pissed off about this and sad as well. And it's because of the incompetence of ownership and coaching that has ruined Sam and he deserved a hell of alot better than what he's gotten here.

So yeah, I have not a doubt in my mind based on my eyeball test and having watched hundreds of QB's in my almost 50 years watching this sport that if he was in San Diego, he'd be doing a hell of alot better there than in the #### show that is here. And vice versa had Herbert been here, he's be sucking it up...just the way it is!

 
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whole-show said:
@AlbertBreer

Sources: The Jets have been in touch with other teams in an effort to trade RB Le'Veon Bell (as

@MMehtaNYDN

reported). Sounds like they're willing to settle for a late pick and/or back-end player in return. Bell is due $6M (plus per-game roster bonuses) for the rest of '20.

Link
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These idiots think they'll get something in return???

Maximus* said:
It obviously can't be done as I was discussing with Doc Octopus but I'd love to see Herbert on the Jets. He'd be doing jack squat and would be producing nothing like he has thus far. 

Same with Sam, put him on San Diego and he's lighting it up. It's what's going to play out in the long run anyways as it's pretty much a fait accompli that once Sam leaves here and goes to another club....oh let's say Pittsburgh for ####s and giggles, I'm betting he flirts if not is a Pro Bowler not that that is as big a deal as it used too be but you get the point. 
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I remember the year Peyton got hurt and didn't play for indy before he went to Denver.  They went something like 2-14 without him after being a playoff team for years and a preseason superbowl contender.  It seems like people who love their qbs don't learn from that kind of thing.

You get a pass when you're a rookie, but Sam's in his third year.  It's time for him to be the guy who makes his team better, or at the very least puts them in positive game script.  You can say "well there's one or two times a game he looks amazing" or "put malhomes here and he isn't MALHOMES" but the truth is a franchise qb would have this absolutely terrible team fighting deep into games.  Malhomes isn't superbowl mvp on the jets, but he's always playing close in the 4th quarter.  Sam isn't, and that's why he's not a franchise qb.

 
NYRAGE said:
Darnold got hosed by his supporting staff, coaching, etc. We can all agree to that.

However, you either rise above it or not. Sam can't.  I stopped making excuses for him this season. Watch the game/tape.

He makes some awful plays that have nothing to do with Gase or teammates. He has wide open guys at times and doesn't see them. He has an open man down field and runs out of bounds on third down. He takes sacks instead of getting rid of the ball on third down and fg range.  He forces plays for bad interceptions instead of throwing it away. Just dumb plays.
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I'm still in the camp that feels he's being wasted / hurt by coaching and supporting cast.

His line is horrible, it has been since he's been here, and there's zero threat of any run game. I don't think I've ever seen a Sam drive where they've attempted more than one downfield pass. The Jets are all about 5 yards at a time and using all three downs to get a first. It's so frustrating to see other team's qb's fire 15 to 20 yard dart after dart and move right down the field, and we're throwing soft sideline stuff to get to 2nd and 6.  

 
wgoldsph said:
These idiots think they'll get something in return???

I remember the year Peyton got hurt and didn't play for indy before he went to Denver.  They went something like 2-14 without him after being a playoff team for years and a preseason superbowl contender.  It seems like people who love their qbs don't learn from that kind of thing.

You get a pass when you're a rookie, but Sam's in his third year.  It's time for him to be the guy who makes his team better, or at the very least puts them in positive game script.  You can say "well there's one or two times a game he looks amazing" or "put malhomes here and he isn't MALHOMES" but the truth is a franchise qb would have this absolutely terrible team fighting deep into games.  Malhomes isn't superbowl mvp on the jets, but he's always playing close in the 4th quarter.  Sam isn't, and that's why he's not a franchise qb.
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This team might be one of the worst teams in NFL history after 5 games. Sorry bud but Joe Montana, Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Namath wouldn't be doing jack #### and raising this team to any kind of competence. Oh wait my bad...those guys are Hall of Famers. So put them on this historically bad Jets team with this coach and this play calling and this Division II WR group and the team beats Denver and we are 1-4...woo hoo!!

 
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Maximus* said:
This team might be one of the worst teams in NFL history after 5 games. Sorry bud but Joe Montana, Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Namath wouldn't be doing jack #### and raising this team to any kind of competence. Oh wait my bad...those guys are Hall of Famers. So put them on this historically bad Jets team and the team beats Denver and we are 1-4...woo hoo!!
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That wasn't my point.  My point was put a good qb on this team and they don't lose most of their games by double digit points. It's not like the defense hasn't created turnovers while letting up all those points.

 
Maximus* said:
This team might be one of the worst teams in NFL history after 5 games. Sorry bud but Joe Montana, Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Namath wouldn't be doing jack #### and raising this team to any kind of competence. Oh wait my bad...those guys are Hall of Famers. So put them on this historically bad Jets team and the team beats Denver and we are 1-4...woo hoo!!
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Im not saying that Sam cant be a franchise QB....put aside that for a moment......he is going into the last affordable yr of his contract....they have to make the call in May to activate his 5th yr for $20M.....do you feel good enough to do that?  I sure dont....hes going to be looking for a deal starting at $20M per yr.....I wouldnt give him that

Trevor will likely average $9M per yr for 4 yrs before having to make a decision.......much more in line with the Jet rebuild....

Would you be willing to commit to a $100M contract to Sam?  

 
wgoldsph said:
That wasn't my point.  My point was put a good qb on this team and they don't lose most of their games by double digit points. It's not like the defense hasn't created turnovers while letting up all those points.
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So let me see if I got this right, even tho this team is historically bad in every possible way, had we had oh let's say the great Justin Hebert as he's apparently the cat's meow as an example, instead of us losing to the 49ers 31-13, we'd have lost 31-28? Instead of us losing to the Colts, if we had Hebert, we'd have lost 36-28 instead of 36-6? 

Instead of us losing the Cardinals two days ago 30-10, the great Justin Hebert behind this O-line, Gore running for 3 yards and a cloud of dust and the great Chris Hogan and Braxton Berrios creating all the separation, we would have lost what...30-24? You know what I say? horse####. This team blows chunks and no QB who is behind center here would succeed. And yes that means Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes, Kyler Murray...etc. All those QB's I mentioned by the way have competent coaching staffs, O-lines and better than Division II weapons to throw too....just sayin!

 
Kiddnets said:
Im not saying that Sam cant be a franchise QB....put aside that for a moment......he is going into the last affordable yr of his contract....they have to make the call in May to activate his 5th yr for $20M.....do you feel good enough to do that?  I sure dont....hes going to be looking for a deal starting at $20M per yr.....I wouldnt give him that

Trevor will likely average $9M per yr for 4 yrs before having to make a decision.......much more in line with the Jet rebuild....

Would you be willing to commit to a $100M contract to Sam?  
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If you read a couple of posts of mine above this you'll note that I said that "unfortunately as I said a few times, you Sam haters are going to get your wish soon enough as he won't be here much longer and he'll be having the success he should have had here somewhere else. I for one am pissed off about this and sad as well. And it's because of the incompetence of ownership and coaching that has ruined Sam and he deserved a hell of alot better than what he's gotten here"

So yes I agree with you. You can't pay Sam that kind of money tho it's not his fault. He's going to do it somewhere else and we'll have to hope that a reset with Lawrence IF he comes out of school which as I said a bunch, I'm not 100% convinced he will if it's the Jets who have the #1 overall but if he does come out, yeah you have to take him.

 
Maximus* said:
The flashes he's shown has given me confidence that he could succeed if he had the proper support around him. His game last year vs Dallas was a masterpiece and showed me that he could be THE GUY!. It helped that he had a Robbie to throw too. I loved his performances vs the Raiders and the last Dolphin game as he showed what he's capable of.

I'm not saying he doesn't F up...he does. But this year's team as presently constituted is not just worse but alot worse than even the 1-15 '96 Kotite Jets. That team at least had solid players like Chrebet, Keyshawn, Adrian Murrel, Jumbo Elliott, Hugh Douglass, Mo Lewis. Big problem with that team is that they had the corpse of Frank Reich and Neil O'Donnell I believe throwing the rock.

This Jet team I mean I can't think of one guy with the exception of Becton and Darnold who could even start on that 1-15 Kotite coached team. Now that's horribad and shows what a historically bad Jet team this is as it's ALOT worse than a 1-15 team from 25 years ago. Listen I have no empirical data that proves my point just like you don't. I know that I've seen enough flashes from Sam to feel reasonably confident he'd succeed with a team that gave him some WR's who can get separation, an O-line that would give him more than 1 second in the pocket where he could at least make 2-3 reads instead of just one and run for his life. 

Unfortunately as I said a few times, you Sam haters are going to get your wish soon enough as he won't be here much longer and he'll be having the success he should have had here somewhere else. I for one am pissed off about this and sad as well. And it's because of the incompetence of ownership and coaching that has ruined Sam and he deserved a hell of alot better than what he's gotten here.

So yeah, I have not a doubt in my mind based on my eyeball test and having watched hundreds of QB's in my almost 50 years watching this sport that if he was in San Diego, he'd be doing a hell of alot better there than in the #### show that is here. And vice versa had Herbert been here, he's be sucking it up...just the way it is!
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I don't think you'll find any regular poster in here that hates Sam. None of us.  We all are rooting for him and have defended him 100% up until this season.

I think, and no offense intended,  that you're selectively looking at Sam's highlights and forgiving his many lowlights.  Every game he makes 1-2 great throws/plays that we consider flashes of brilliance, but what about the 10 or more bad plays and the handful of terrible plays?

Like I wrote above, we can all agree that the hasn't been helped by coaching or talent around him, but this year there have been MANY plays that Sam has butchered that haven't been because of the play-calling or lack of talent around him. Go follow Robby Sabo on Twitter and you'll see him dissect all the horrific decisions by Darnold. I don't think we can call it opinion. It's right there on tape.

Yet, we just want to blame Gase. A lot of the complaints about Gase are valid, but Gase is not controlling Sam's brain. Darnold was sloppy going all the way back to college, but excuses were made back then, too like he was too young or too inexperienced.  Maybe he is what he is: a guy that sprinkles in great plays among lots of bad plays. Maybe he just turns out to be Fitzpatrick. If they were the same age, I wonder which QB we would rather have right now.

TLEF316 asked: Was Sam ALWAYS bad or has he been ruined? Good question, but the more relevant question is can he be salvaged and are we going to bet $20m in cap space on it? I don't think there is anything this coaching staff can do to salvage him. I would imagine that Gase will be gone at the end of the season. I certainly hope so, but will JD roll the dice that a new coach can salvage Sam? I think at this point he would rather roll the dice on a new QB on a rookie deal, but that's just my opinion.

 
Nice signing all around. Worked out well with this iteration of a shambles of a coaching staff.

Say what you will about Bell -- and I've taken out threads criticizing his running style before he got to NY -- he never had a chance with this coach. 

 
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