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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
jwb
Footballguy
Don't Toews Me
Footballguy
Exactly. The media and fans will not be kind if he has a bad September. But with a new system, it'll be his first few games in that system. Darnold and Douglas are both in tough spots. Darnold will have to start off decently in an entirely new and unfamiliar system. Difficult ask for a young QB who still has to make strides as a QB. Slightly unrealistic in my opinion.
To me, it makes more sense to start off fresh. Both for the Jets and the player. Darnold getting a fresh start somewhere would likely be beneficial for him. Maybe even sit a year behind a veteran. I'd like to see Darnold succeed as a player in this league.
As I think more about the option to "give Darnold 1 more year," how much are we really going to know after 1 year in an entirely new system? It just seems really easy to me for us to be back here a year from now saying "He flashed some and he's still young" and giving him the benefit of the doubt as he heads into Year 2 of the new system. What if he doesn't progress in Year 2? So we've wasted 5 years trying to determine if this guy is the franchise QB or not? Where do we draw the line? What are the parameters?
We've got 3 years of NFL tape here. I know Gase is Gase, but 3 years of NFL tape should show Douglas what he needs to know.
Maybe Douglas takes a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. For some reason, I just don't think he spends the #2 overall pick on a QB.
This entire offseason would've been 110% easier if they had the #1 overall pick. Trevor Lawrence is your new QB. You get your pick of HC candidates since we'd be a very attractive destination with Lawrence and a ton of cap. Ugh.
RC94
Footballguy
When most companies fire someone due to their inability to do their job, that is the last day for that employee. What kind of company fires someone like that but asks them to continue working anyway? Either wait until it's going to be his last day, or have an assistant coach week 17.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
some really good points to think about here....the timing is just awful for Sam....add in the fact that he'll be a FA at the end of the season assuming they dont exercise the 5th yr option and it just makes it so difficult....the easier decision is to simply start fresh...new QB, new coach, new timeline reset with rookie contract...plus they get a pick for Sam. This would definitely be the easier choice and sell to the fans....way more patience in that scenario than bringing back Darnold.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Im afraid he'll pull a Costanza and just show up the next day and act like it didnt happen.....he can review the Penske file
NYRAGE
Footballguy
For guys advocating keeping Darnold, I'm not you sure you realize how bad he is. Darnold is 32nd in QBR. The worst in all of football.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
Let's look at every team's situation and it's just my opinion.
Better than Sam now and set for the future:
Arizona Cardinals - Murray
Baltimore Ravens - Jackson
Buffalo Bills - Allen
Cincinnati Bengals - Burrow
Dallas Cowboys - Prescott
Green Bay Packers - Rodgers
Houston Texans - Watson
Kansas City Chiefs - Mahomes
Los Angeles Chargers - Herbert
Seattle Seahawks - Wilson
Tennessee Titans - Tannehill
Better than Sam now, but not set for the future: (These teams should be replacing their QBs within the next 2 years)
Atlanta Falcons - Ryan (age 35)
Carolina Panthers - Bridgewater (decent game manager, but could be replaced in the future)
Detroit Lions - Stafford (in this group because or rumors of Det wanting to draft a QB for the future)
Indianapolis Colts - Rivers (don't see him coming back)
New Orleans Saints - Brees (may just roll with Smith if Brees is gone)
Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben (one more year?)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Brady (2 more years?)
Better than Sam now, but future is unclear:
Cleveland Browns - Mayfield (Effective game manager that should get second contract)
Las Vegas Raiders - Carr (Did he finally reach a point where talk of replacing him stops?)
Los Angeles Rams - Goff (I'm not a big fan, but under contract for 4 more years I think)
Minnesota Vikings - Cousins (Under contract for 2 more years I think. UFA at 35)
Philadelphia Eagles - Hurts (probably starter going forward, but not in stone)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar grouping as Sam, but future is clear
Miami Dolphins - Tua (high draft pick with more potential than Sam at this point)
Similar grouping as Sam now, but uncertain if they keep their starting job
Chicago Bears - Trubisky (playing better, may get second contract)
Denver Broncos - Lock (probably be replaced)
NY Giants - Jones (to be determined)
San Francisco 49ers - Garappolo (Coach just endorsed him, but could be replaced)
Same grouping as Sam, but needs immediate replacement for the future:
Jacksonville Jaguars - Minshew - (Lawrence)
New England Patriots - Cam (was better than Sam before injuries)
Washington Football Team - Smith (was better than Sam prior to injury)
Worse than Sam now and needs immediate replacement:
No one is worse now that Haskins is gone. Muellens was probably worse despite the slightly higher QBR, but he's not SF's starter.
I defended Sam like crazy based on some great plays here and there the past 2 years. I wrote off all the bad plays and decisions because of things like bad coaching, lack of talent around him, etc. However, he has really regressed this year. Plus he's injury prone.
Although Sam is 32nd in QBR, there are about 7 other similar bad QBs out there. Not much separates them. Maybe he can emerge from that group of 7 if he somehow improves. What's his upside? I doubt it's top half of QBs. Top of the bottom third maybe. And we're going to pay this guy $25+ million? You can't build a team and pay this much for a mediocre to bad QB. This should be an easy pass for JD. Just my opinion.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
Let's look at every team's situation and it's just my opinion.
Better than Sam now and set for the future:
Arizona Cardinals - Murray
Baltimore Ravens - Jackson
Buffalo Bills - Allen
Cincinnati Bengals - Burrow
Dallas Cowboys - Prescott
Green Bay Packers - Rodgers
Houston Texans - Watson
Kansas City Chiefs - Mahomes
Los Angeles Chargers - Herbert
Seattle Seahawks - Wilson
Tennessee Titans - Tannehill
Better than Sam now, but not set for the future: (These teams should be replacing their QBs within the next 2 years)
Atlanta Falcons - Ryan (age 35)
Carolina Panthers - Bridgewater (decent game manager, but could be replaced in the future)
Detroit Lions - Stafford (in this group because or rumors of Det wanting to draft a QB for the future)
Indianapolis Colts - Rivers (don't see him coming back)
New Orleans Saints - Brees (may just roll with Smith if Brees is gone)
Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben (one more year?)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Brady (2 more years?)
Better than Sam now, but future is unclear:
Cleveland Browns - Mayfield (Effective game manager that should get second contract)
Las Vegas Raiders - Carr (Did he finally reach a point where talk of replacing him stops?)
Los Angeles Rams - Goff (I'm not a big fan, but under contract for 4 more years I think)
Minnesota Vikings - Cousins (Under contract for 2 more years I think. UFA at 35)
Philadelphia Eagles - Hurts (probably starter going forward, but not in stone)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar grouping as Sam, but future is clear
Miami Dolphins - Tua (high draft pick with more potential than Sam at this point)
Similar grouping as Sam now, but uncertain if they keep their starting job
Chicago Bears - Trubisky (playing better, may get second contract)
Denver Broncos - Lock (probably be replaced)
NY Giants - Jones (to be determined)
San Francisco 49ers - Garappolo (Coach just endorsed him, but could be replaced)
Same grouping as Sam, but needs immediate replacement for the future:
Jacksonville Jaguars - Minshew - (Lawrence)
New England Patriots - Cam (was better than Sam before injuries)
Washington Football Team - Smith (was better than Sam prior to injury)
Worse than Sam now and needs immediate replacement:
No one is worse now that Haskins is gone. Muellens was probably worse despite the slightly higher QBR, but he's not SF's starter.
I defended Sam like crazy based on some great plays here and there the past 2 years. I wrote off all the bad plays and decisions because of things like bad coaching, lack of talent around him, etc. However, he has really regressed this year. Plus he's injury prone.
Although Sam is 32nd in QBR, there are about 7 other similar bad QBs out there. Not much separates them. Maybe he can emerge from that group of 7 if he somehow improves. What's his upside? I doubt it's top half of QBs. Top of the bottom third maybe. And we're going to pay this guy $25+ million? You can't build a team and pay this much for a mediocre to bad QB. This should be an easy pass for JD. Just my opinion.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Gase is DEFINITELY not Penske material.
And he should certainly have the smaller office.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Im not delusional on Sam - I know where he is ranked....but in my eyes its just not that simple....Josh Allen would be terrible if he had what Sam did the past 3 yrs.
rookie year - worst coaching staff in league with Bowles; terrible OL, no solid RB, WR or TE to throw to - injured for few weeks as well
Year 2 - new coaching staff that is even worse than the previous regime, worst OL in the league, below avg Bell and still no WRs of note except Robbie Anderson whose more of a #2...freak mono diagnosis that sidelined him multiple games and probably affected the others as well
Year 3 - no real offseason or training camp....still worst coaching staff in league.....improved OL but worse WRs and RB positions.....shoulder injury thats not his fault as hes pile driven to turf and inexplicably sent back in by moron coach - Trevor talk going on all year.
That is an absolutely awful way to start a career....Sam is younger than Burrow. Hes an NFL baby....if Tannenhill can resurrect his career post Gase than I dont see why Sam couldnt.....the big issue is the contract...hes absolutely not worth $25M and he knows it....he has one year to show hes worth an extension and if not they cut bait....its a tough spot with a new offensive staff but Id argue it couldnt be any worse than the last one....
2021 possibly - Better staff with real NFL coaches....healthy...full camp/offseason...improved OL with vet Becton...possible FA stud and rookie stud....real running game with someone like Etienne....true #1 WR like A-Rob Rob, Golliday or Godwin....I could live with him getting one more shot to see what he can do with this situation
rookie year - worst coaching staff in league with Bowles; terrible OL, no solid RB, WR or TE to throw to - injured for few weeks as well
Year 2 - new coaching staff that is even worse than the previous regime, worst OL in the league, below avg Bell and still no WRs of note except Robbie Anderson whose more of a #2...freak mono diagnosis that sidelined him multiple games and probably affected the others as well
Year 3 - no real offseason or training camp....still worst coaching staff in league.....improved OL but worse WRs and RB positions.....shoulder injury thats not his fault as hes pile driven to turf and inexplicably sent back in by moron coach - Trevor talk going on all year.
That is an absolutely awful way to start a career....Sam is younger than Burrow. Hes an NFL baby....if Tannenhill can resurrect his career post Gase than I dont see why Sam couldnt.....the big issue is the contract...hes absolutely not worth $25M and he knows it....he has one year to show hes worth an extension and if not they cut bait....its a tough spot with a new offensive staff but Id argue it couldnt be any worse than the last one....
2021 possibly - Better staff with real NFL coaches....healthy...full camp/offseason...improved OL with vet Becton...possible FA stud and rookie stud....real running game with someone like Etienne....true #1 WR like A-Rob Rob, Golliday or Godwin....I could live with him getting one more shot to see what he can do with this situation
TLEF316
Footballguy
This is an incredibly rational position to take. Nobody could argue that, on paper, the kid has been absolutely screwed.
But my eyes just tell me it isn't there. Maybe part of it is shell shock, but he just makes too many dumb decisions and fails to pull the trigger on guys that are wide open. It just seems like he's destined to be a guy that flashes moments of brilliance but will inevitably break your heart by doing something inexcusable. Physical/mechanical flaws aside, I just dont think he processes info fast enough.
And I look around the league and see guys that are less experienced, coming into situations that aren't ideal (maybe not as bad as Sam, but still bad) and just showing infinitely more poise.
Justin Herbert finds out he's stating 10 minutes before kickoff...comes into the game and takes the superbowl champs to overtime.
The Eagles are in absolute shambles but Jalen Hurts has come in and provided a spark. A win over New Orleans and two 300 yard passing games in his first 3 starts. (although, to be fair, he's completing a terrible percentage)
Hell, Brett Rypien looked MILES better than Sam when he played against the Jets (although things obviously went off the rails late with the picks)
It would take balls the size of Metlife stadium for Douglas to pass on a QB at 2 (or wherever they trade down to) and stick with Sam. He'd basically be betting his career on a guy who has been the worst starter in the league for 3 years...who he didn't draft....who basically the entire world is telling him to bail on.
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
Fair........you would think Sam would show something more than he has.....a true franchise QB would rise above the mess and actually show more than mere flashes....I would say that in the examples you gave -
Herbert - much better offense than Sam ever had...Sam would have killed for a Keenan Allen to throw to.
Rypen - as you stated he imploded and showed how bad he was at the end
Hurts - its only 2 games - hes exciting because hes a running QB and flying around making plays...not sure he has shown much as a full qb yet but its fair that he definitely has shown flashes last few games
Joes D still has 4 yrs left on his contract - he could easily go 1 more year with sam and if it goes bad he still has 3 full yrs of security to draft and develop another QB....
Dont get me wrong - im not dying on a mountain for Sam...just saying I could see the rationale....especially if it means getting a mega OL for 10 yrs rather than a dart throw new rookie QB...if Sam is terrible again they would likely be drafting in the top 10 and could get a QB next year.
rockaction
Footballguy
Sam is awful. He has a worse ANY/A than Christian Ponder did. The amount of games he's started vs. the ineptitude he shows statistically is stunning. I wish I had the tweets and links that Chase Stuart over at Football Perspective has been posting, but they're eye-opening even for the most myopic of QB evaluators. Advanced stats, QB stats, grades, everything shows Darnold to be one of the absolute worst quarterbacks in the league, if not the worst. Gase is no real excuse at that point.
He's terrible. End of the day, he's not your franchise quarterback. Time to clean up the Maccagnan mess and start all over anew.
As far as the Maccagnan/Bowles/Gase ####show, let's not forget the words of Bill Belichick: "Nobody's been more wrong more often than Charlie Casserly."
He's terrible. End of the day, he's not your franchise quarterback. Time to clean up the Maccagnan mess and start all over anew.
As far as the Maccagnan/Bowles/Gase ####show, let's not forget the words of Bill Belichick: "Nobody's been more wrong more often than Charlie Casserly."
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I hate hate detest detest Carton with all my heart and being and so what he says means jack squat to me typically.
However in this one instance, I'll make an exception and say from his dumb and ignorant big mouth to the football gods ears, I pray that the #### clown is right....we shalt see come Black Monday now won't we?
NYRAGE
Footballguy
I disagree about Allen. Even in his rookie year when he could challenge Hackenberg for accuracy, Allen had the "it" factor. He could rise above his conditions and steal a game with his running ability. How many times did he escape and break tackles and actually won a few games for his team? I remember him doing it against the Jets.
Sam has never risen above what's around him nor has he put the team on his back like Allen. And boy what I wrong. I used to say that Darnold would be better.
Yes, Sam has had a terrible support environment. Yet Sam's excuses don't even factor into all the plays he misses on the field. He panics in the pocket. He misses open guys. With some exceptions, he's not accurate in his throws (yes, every once in a while he makes a great throw on the run). He will complete a pass for 10 yards where 15 or 20 yards would have been available with a better timed throw. Even Herbert as a rookie steps up into the pocket in the face of the rush. If Sam is in the pocket, you know a sack is coming. 230 yards is his high for the season in a league that pretty much dares you to throw because of the Pass Interference rules and no hits on the QB.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Oof. I once switched my Survivor pool pick to Green Bay at the last minute when Ponder had to make an emergency start for Minnesota. Easiest pick 'em ever.
sheerterror
Footballguy
Totally agree. Through week 10ish of this season, the Jets were on pace to be one of the absolute worst teams in the HISTORY of this league. Outside of a few OK looking pieces, we really don't have much beyond Becton and Q. This was the true bottoming out of the franchise. Within this, we'll come out of this season with the 2nd most cap space in the league, and quite a bit of draft flexibility. We also should have had the best QB prospect incoming but that doesn't need a rehash.
You HAVE to come out of this with what should hopefully develop into your franchise QB. I'm certainly not advocating reaching for QB2 if the evaluations don't justify it - but with the amount of cap space+draft capital we have, plus a general faith in Douglas' ability to actually move the franchise forward in general - we are going to very quickly be back into our usual Jetsian 5-11 to 9-7 type of range for the next few years (a progression back to the mean if you will after hitting rock bottom.) I don't believe we will be in a position to grab one of the highly touted QBs in the draft after this year without it costing us significant capital to move up. And if Douglas is chasing that in 2022, he's heading into year 4 with his seat getting hotter despite any real meaningful progress for the first half of his tenure. I think he HAS to make a move.
A buddy just mentioned he caught on twitter a rumor of Matt Campbell being in love with Zach Wilson. And apparently Campbell and Douglas share the same agent. If we're going the direction of a 'program builder' at coach, which i'm all for at this point, and he wants to hitch his wagon to 2021 draft QB2, then that's the direction i'd be in favor of. See ya Sam...maybe we can still salvage a 3rd rounder for him.
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Was thinking about this last night gents.
If we assume that these reports of Gase being history is a fait accompli, the Johnsons need to do something that they've never let happen before since they became owners and that is too let the GM, in this case, Douglas do all the shopping, pick the coach's he likes, orchestrate the search, do the multiple interviews and make the hire....period end of story!!!
NO more of this BS from the past where you have 90 year old former executives like Charlie Casserly chiming in orchestrating things. No more dozen or so peeps involved in every aspect of the interview process whether it be the search for even candidates to potentially even interview....no more of that ####!
Newsflash Chris Johnson. You have a true football man here in Joe D. He is widely respected all across the league. People know him and like him. This is no Joe Schmoe we have here...this guy is the real deal. The Jets haven't had a guy with cred like this since some guy Bill Parcells was here for a few minutes but what a glorious few minutes it was there for awhile.
Douglas has played integral parts of 2 SB winning organizations. You are lucky that Douglas decided to come here. We as a fan base are lucky that Joe D decided to come here as he was highly sought all over the league yet he chose to come here thx in part to ironically Gase.
We trust him...I know I do and I'm not alone. Now you need to trust him as well and let him do his job and bring in his guy and get this Jet choo choo train going on the right track finally as it's been way way to long since we've been even relevant let alone a playoff contender.
Now if Chris Johnson wants to be involved, consulted with and sit in on maybe some of the final interviews in the process,, when the candidates have been narrowed down... by all means do that. But Johnson absolutely needs to step back this time and let Joe D do what he's been hired to do which is to bring in the people he feels are best suited to lead this football team going forward.
No more screwing around...we need to get this coaching hire right as in very very right. Chris Johnson always says he wants nothing more than for the Jets to be successful and ultimately win a Super Bowl.
Well here's a little tip from a longtime loyal beyond what any normal person should be loyal Jet fan. And yes I should be knighted for this insane loyalty I've showed over the years. Many others here on this board can say the same thing.
The journey to relevance starts now with letting Douglas hire the next head coach of the Jets and just as importantly there should be a new chain of command implemented and this new coach whoever he is, he needs to report to Douglass not the Johnson's. This new coach should also be permitted as well to hire his assistants as well. I don't want another Matt Rhule situation occurring again where a solid young coach can't hire his guys and is told who he is going to have as his assistants and than he turns us down.
We are starting fresh now. Time to do things differently now as those old archaic ways just don't work. Let Douglas do his thing and he alone hire the next Jets head coach...simple as that!
If we assume that these reports of Gase being history is a fait accompli, the Johnsons need to do something that they've never let happen before since they became owners and that is too let the GM, in this case, Douglas do all the shopping, pick the coach's he likes, orchestrate the search, do the multiple interviews and make the hire....period end of story!!!
NO more of this BS from the past where you have 90 year old former executives like Charlie Casserly chiming in orchestrating things. No more dozen or so peeps involved in every aspect of the interview process whether it be the search for even candidates to potentially even interview....no more of that ####!
Newsflash Chris Johnson. You have a true football man here in Joe D. He is widely respected all across the league. People know him and like him. This is no Joe Schmoe we have here...this guy is the real deal. The Jets haven't had a guy with cred like this since some guy Bill Parcells was here for a few minutes but what a glorious few minutes it was there for awhile.
Douglas has played integral parts of 2 SB winning organizations. You are lucky that Douglas decided to come here. We as a fan base are lucky that Joe D decided to come here as he was highly sought all over the league yet he chose to come here thx in part to ironically Gase.
We trust him...I know I do and I'm not alone. Now you need to trust him as well and let him do his job and bring in his guy and get this Jet choo choo train going on the right track finally as it's been way way to long since we've been even relevant let alone a playoff contender.
Now if Chris Johnson wants to be involved, consulted with and sit in on maybe some of the final interviews in the process,, when the candidates have been narrowed down... by all means do that. But Johnson absolutely needs to step back this time and let Joe D do what he's been hired to do which is to bring in the people he feels are best suited to lead this football team going forward.
No more screwing around...we need to get this coaching hire right as in very very right. Chris Johnson always says he wants nothing more than for the Jets to be successful and ultimately win a Super Bowl.
Well here's a little tip from a longtime loyal beyond what any normal person should be loyal Jet fan. And yes I should be knighted for this insane loyalty I've showed over the years. Many others here on this board can say the same thing.
The journey to relevance starts now with letting Douglas hire the next head coach of the Jets and just as importantly there should be a new chain of command implemented and this new coach whoever he is, he needs to report to Douglass not the Johnson's. This new coach should also be permitted as well to hire his assistants as well. I don't want another Matt Rhule situation occurring again where a solid young coach can't hire his guys and is told who he is going to have as his assistants and than he turns us down.
We are starting fresh now. Time to do things differently now as those old archaic ways just don't work. Let Douglas do his thing and he alone hire the next Jets head coach...simple as that!
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Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I don't think it's bad enough, and enough time has passed.I guess we'll see.
And it's hard to imagine a scenario where Gase doesn't get fired next week, but it was also hard to imagine him getting a new HC job so quickly after Miami.
And it's hard to imagine a scenario where Gase doesn't get fired next week, but it was also hard to imagine him getting a new HC job so quickly after Miami.
Don't Toews Me
Footballguy
Good points. 100% agreed.
I really think they need to start totally fresh. Just makes sense for everyone involved. Pick a legit HC candidate who can work with Douglas. Let them find a QB they both love. Let Darnold have a new start somewhere and a change of scenery.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Sam's fate will be up to JD and the new coach.....I dont see a FA or trade possibility that makes a lot of sense....so essentially its draft a new one or go with Sam.....I am reading a ton of anti-Sam posts not just here but on all the Jet sites....its hard to argue but I personally will not be upset if they use the pick on the stud Tackle and go bookends for 10 yrs....worth the risk. Listened to Tanny on ESPN (I wish they never fired him) - and he equated it to Brick/Mangold draft that set the Jets up for their best success in franchise history....I love the idea of a monster OL to give the Jets an identity....if Sam fails again then hes done with no cap hit...they find a new QB next yr but he would be coming into a much better situation than Sam.
Unless one of the non Lawrence QBs really grades out elite Im in favor of going with the OL/Sam combo one more year but I cant be upset if they decide to reset.
Unless one of the non Lawrence QBs really grades out elite Im in favor of going with the OL/Sam combo one more year but I cant be upset if they decide to reset.
First off Happy almost New Year to my goombas here on the FF Guys board. You guys have helped make the nightmare that has been 2020 a bit more bearable with some of your comments, insights and at times some laughs.
That said and how's this for a change of pace. For the first time since forever or at least since the Denver game, us Jet fans, now that the Trevor Lawrence dream was officially kiboshed last week with the Browns win and because it's supposedly a done deal that Gase is going to be gone on Black Monday, it's safe now and we can actually root for our team to win a football game again...imagine friggen that...lol
And for a win to be against Belichek and the hated Patriots at their place would make it that much sweeter. Let's do this. I haven't written this in forever but here goes.....Go Jets!!!....
That said and how's this for a change of pace. For the first time since forever or at least since the Denver game, us Jet fans, now that the Trevor Lawrence dream was officially kiboshed last week with the Browns win and because it's supposedly a done deal that Gase is going to be gone on Black Monday, it's safe now and we can actually root for our team to win a football game again...imagine friggen that...lol
And for a win to be against Belichek and the hated Patriots at their place would make it that much sweeter. Let's do this. I haven't written this in forever but here goes.....Go Jets!!!....
TLEF316
Footballguy
Gonna watch the Clemson- tOSU game tomorrow and TRY to find some sort of silver lining. Hopefully Fields shows something, but I'm not optimistic. He's big and athletic and has a big arm, but I just dont think I can get comfortable with a QB coming out of that system. By all accounts, he's basically been a one-read and tuck it guy, which works at OSU but not in the NFL.
His "weaknesses" (per pretty much every scouting report I've read) are basically a laundry list of things that I DONT look for in a QB.
- Has never been asked to look for his 2nd and 3rd reads
- Isn't especially precise with ball placement
- Enjoys a huge talent advantage across the board in pretty much every game he's ever played. Constantly has WIDE OPEN receivers (even by college standards)
Gonna go into it with an open mind, but its tough. And I expect Lawrence to absolutely light up the OSU defense.
His "weaknesses" (per pretty much every scouting report I've read) are basically a laundry list of things that I DONT look for in a QB.
- Has never been asked to look for his 2nd and 3rd reads
- Isn't especially precise with ball placement
- Enjoys a huge talent advantage across the board in pretty much every game he's ever played. Constantly has WIDE OPEN receivers (even by college standards)
Gonna go into it with an open mind, but its tough. And I expect Lawrence to absolutely light up the OSU defense.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Happy new year as well - lit feels like we are at the end of a 2 year nightmare...this group has been great in getting me through it - really good stuff in here the past year...at least in losing Trevor it gives us a bunch of scenarios to debate through the next few months
It is very strange rooting for the Jets after so long...Ill root for them and actually expect them to win...but certainly not going to be upset if they lose. Would be nice to see Belichick lose his mind tho lol
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Its a hug game for Fields....hes already falling in the mock drafts....QBs usually get momentum so it needs to start with a big game vs Clemson...if he has another bad one he may drop out of the top 10....its good for the Jets and pick if he lights it up so ill be cheering for him while trying not to get depressed watching Trevor
NYRAGE
Footballguy
I'm not a huge college football fan, so I haven't seen too much of Fields, but a bit more of Lawrence. I'll defer to the experts when it comes to analyzing college talent.
However, while Lawrence was always considered the generational talent, I remember when people were saying that the gap between Lawrence and Fields was very small. Some even debated whether Fields could become the top pick. They were often described as 1 and 1A.
Fields has 2 bad games in a Covid 2020 season and he's suddenly falling like crazy and people are nitpicking every fault. Players have been out. It's a weird schedule. I'm not defending him because honestly, I don't watch enough college football to say, but JD may have a different evaluation of his career than the recency bias that we're witnessing. Even in the 3 INT game, I think Fields threw 3 tds and ran for 80 and a td. Anyway, tomorrow's game will be huge, but the QB evaluation process is far from being settled.
However, while Lawrence was always considered the generational talent, I remember when people were saying that the gap between Lawrence and Fields was very small. Some even debated whether Fields could become the top pick. They were often described as 1 and 1A.
Fields has 2 bad games in a Covid 2020 season and he's suddenly falling like crazy and people are nitpicking every fault. Players have been out. It's a weird schedule. I'm not defending him because honestly, I don't watch enough college football to say, but JD may have a different evaluation of his career than the recency bias that we're witnessing. Even in the 3 INT game, I think Fields threw 3 tds and ran for 80 and a td. Anyway, tomorrow's game will be huge, but the QB evaluation process is far from being settled.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Oh, for sure. Certain guys tend to get nitpicked for one reason or another. (I'm still trying to figure out what the hell Deshaun Watson did to cause him to fall to #11) So...as I said....after the initial shock/heartbreak of losing Lawrence, I'm going to watch tomorrow with an open mind.
Every player is different....but the next time OSU produces a good NFL QB will be the first time, so I'm skeptical. Just awful timing for Fields to have a stinker, combined with the unfortunate public crash and burn of Haskins. But again....they're 2 different guys.
Fields will have every opportunity to stand on his own and prove that he truly is that 1A guy. Not saying he's gotta throw for 300 yards a game and win the national title these next 2 weeks, but if he throws for 200 yards and 2 picks and they get blown out tomorrow night, my enthusiasm will drafting him will be basically zero. Clemson is better than OSU. They have the better QB. But if Fields is truly an NFL franchise QB, he's got enough talent around him to make it a game. Put up 35 points. Make Lawrence be the guy everyone thinks he is in order to beat you.
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NYRAGE
Footballguy
If Fields has a bad game, then Wilson for sure becomes the #2 QB in everyone's eyes (poor Trask after last night). PFF is all over Wilson now, but I have my doubts about their analysis in general. The thing is to separate Twitter "scouts" from real scouts.
JD and his guys might see something in Fields or Wilson that they love or think is correctable. We just don't know. Plus the position is pretty difficult to project. It's pretty hit or miss.
Parcels had his 7 rules:
1 Be a three-year starter.
2 Be a senior in college.
3 Graduate from college.
4 Start 30 games.
5 Win 23 games.
6 Post a 2-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio.
7 Complete at least 60 percent of passes thrown.
Far from perfect, but it looked pretty good for last year:
Justin Herbert, Oregon
Three years as a starter? Yes
Is he a senior? Yes
Did he graduate? Yes
Did he start 30 games? Yes, 42 games
Did he win 23 games? Yes, 27 games
TD-INT ratio at least 2-1? Yes, 95-23
Completion percentage over 60? Yes, 64 percent
7/7 criteria met
Jalen Hurts, Oklahoma
Three years as a starter? Yes
Is he a senior? Yes
Did he graduate? Yes
Did he start 30 games? Yes, 42 games
Did he win 23 games? Yes, 38 games
TD-INT ratio at least 2-1? Yes, 80-20
Completion percentage over 60? Yes, 65.1 percent
7/7 criteria met
Joe Burrow, LSU
Three years as a starter? No, two years
Is he a senior? Yes
Did he graduate? Yes
Did he start 30 games? No, 28 games
Did he win 23 games? Yes, 25 games
TD-INT ratio at least 2-1? Yes, 78-11
Completion percentage over 60? Yes, 68.8 percent
5/7 criteria met
While it worked well for last year's class so far, I don't think that would have worked for Mahomes or Murray. Anyway, JD has his work cut out for him. Whether Lawrence turns out to be great, that was the easy choice that no one would have questioned. Now things are pretty difficult.
Sorry fellas and luv ya but I disagree with y'all. I'll repeat what I've said all along, just do not think Joe D is taking a QB with the 2 pick...just don't. None of them are good enough to warrant a pick that high even if Fields has a good game tomorrow or if Wilson continues to be the cat's meow!
As I said a few times, Sewell is the guy we either will take or we will make believe we are going to take him so that a bidding war can potentially ensue and if Joe D can get a haul to move down a few spots, I think that's the way it's going to go down. Now maybe there will be a team or two who fall in love with Fields or Wilson as well and they'll bid as well and also come to Douglas and offer a sweet deal.
Either way, we are in a great spot and to be frank, we really can't lose here especially because we have a GM who knows how to evaluate talent and who knows how to work the system.
If I had to say one way or the other what we are going to do it would be 60% chance we stay at 2 and pick Sewell.....40% we deal down somewhere in the top 10 and get a haul. I'm OK with either scenario and that's mostly because it's Douglas who is orchestrating it and I trust him more than any GM we have had since Parcells was doing the shopping.
As I said a few times, Sewell is the guy we either will take or we will make believe we are going to take him so that a bidding war can potentially ensue and if Joe D can get a haul to move down a few spots, I think that's the way it's going to go down. Now maybe there will be a team or two who fall in love with Fields or Wilson as well and they'll bid as well and also come to Douglas and offer a sweet deal.
Either way, we are in a great spot and to be frank, we really can't lose here especially because we have a GM who knows how to evaluate talent and who knows how to work the system.
If I had to say one way or the other what we are going to do it would be 60% chance we stay at 2 and pick Sewell.....40% we deal down somewhere in the top 10 and get a haul. I'm OK with either scenario and that's mostly because it's Douglas who is orchestrating it and I trust him more than any GM we have had since Parcells was doing the shopping.
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TLEF316
Footballguy
To be fair to Parcells, I'm guessing those rules were written at a time when QB tutelage at the HS (and even earlier) level wasn't what it is today. Back in the 70's/80's, there weren't too many HS teams slinging it all over the place. (My HS has produced 3 NFL players and won the state title in NJ's largest class 20 years ago when I was there. And they basically threw the ball 25 times all season) Big time prospects didn't have private QB trainers when they were 12 years old. The Elite 11 camp and the Manning passing academy didn't exist.
Because of that, I tend to be a LITTLE more lenient when judging a starting QB based on how many games he's played, especially if they play at a powerhouse program. (powerhouse programs come with their own set of challenges when judging QB's).
But if a guy can't break through until his Junior year at a mediocre program, that's a big red flag to me. To me, taking a guy like Trubisky over Watson was absolute pure insanity. When Trubisky got to UNC, they were decimated by scholarship reductions and probation. And then he plays 1 year and jumps ship. Recipe for disaster.
So on that point, I'm not gonna knock Fields for only starting 2 years. When he got to UGA, the guy in front of him was a sophomore who had just led them to the SEC title and the national championship game. He didn't think he was gonna get a fair shot to unseat him (despite being the greater talent) so he left. Cant' really knock him for that. I dont think his "issues" are going to get fixed beating up on overmatched Big Ten opponents for another season. He has to get into an NFL QB room and eventually the field and see if he can read those defenses at game speed. (and then execute the throws into NFL windows)
Because of that, I tend to be a LITTLE more lenient when judging a starting QB based on how many games he's played, especially if they play at a powerhouse program. (powerhouse programs come with their own set of challenges when judging QB's).
But if a guy can't break through until his Junior year at a mediocre program, that's a big red flag to me. To me, taking a guy like Trubisky over Watson was absolute pure insanity. When Trubisky got to UNC, they were decimated by scholarship reductions and probation. And then he plays 1 year and jumps ship. Recipe for disaster.
So on that point, I'm not gonna knock Fields for only starting 2 years. When he got to UGA, the guy in front of him was a sophomore who had just led them to the SEC title and the national championship game. He didn't think he was gonna get a fair shot to unseat him (despite being the greater talent) so he left. Cant' really knock him for that. I dont think his "issues" are going to get fixed beating up on overmatched Big Ten opponents for another season. He has to get into an NFL QB room and eventually the field and see if he can read those defenses at game speed. (and then execute the throws into NFL windows)
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Balco
Footballguy
If Douglas grades a qb as a franchise qb he would be foolish not to take him at 2. But taking a qb for the sake of taking on at 2 makes zero sense for the Jets. This is a rebuild. It can be a short rebuild due to cap space and draft picks but it’s still a rebuild.
Taking Sewell at 2 would not be a bad move at all.
Taking Sewell at 2 would not be a bad move at all.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
We apparently agree and I do believe that is the route he will go. I'd truly be shocked if Douglass feels either Field or Wilson are worthy of a pick at #2 as in it would blow my socks off shocked. He's either taking Sewell or trading down. I gave my percentages just before...it's 60-65% he picks Sewell....35-40% he trades down. As of right this very very minute, I think i want Sewell unless Joe D can get the motherload.
Sewell and Becton with a few more additions? I mean the Jets could go from having the worst O-line in the last 15-20 years which they were last year to if they did in fact take Sewell and add a few more pieces, they could easily have a top 10 in the league O-line. And how glorious that would be...
OK you never can say 0% and so maybe I embellished a bit. Here's the revised %'s.
63% we take Sewell
33% we trade down
4% we take Fields or Wilson
In all seriousness Rage, I'd be beyond shocked if we picked one of those QB's at #2. They simply aren't worth it too us. Sewell tho is. Trading down is.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
It's way too early, but I'll say:
30% we pick a QB
30% we pick Sewell
40% we trade down (and a good part of that is trading down and still getting a QB).
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Now that we’re all on board with them winning this week, expect for the Pat to blow them out.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I wouldnt be upset if JD went QB - While the new QB definitely resets the clock for Douglas....but taking Sewell gives them an identity....since Rex the Jets have been rudderless without a culture, identity or anything really to plan for except the one strange Fitz yr....
You add Sewell and Thuney to that OL with Becton it becomes an instant top 10 OL that w stmill give DCs nightmares.....Add one the top WR FAs ike Juju plus a top RB in the 2d rd like Etienne and watch this offense take off.....even Sam would look lightyears better in that type of set up. If Sanchez could thrive in that set up then why couldnt Sam?
I think this is the best path for relevancy....if Sam stumbles again then hes off the books and the new QB would walk into an awesome set up.
You add Sewell and Thuney to that OL with Becton it becomes an instant top 10 OL that w stmill give DCs nightmares.....Add one the top WR FAs ike Juju plus a top RB in the 2d rd like Etienne and watch this offense take off.....even Sam would look lightyears better in that type of set up. If Sanchez could thrive in that set up then why couldnt Sam?
I think this is the best path for relevancy....if Sam stumbles again then hes off the books and the new QB would walk into an awesome set up.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Are we supposed to root for Ohio State, since Fields could possibly be our QB?
TLEF316
Footballguy
Even if you dont want Fields, you want him to play well.
Now, if you DONT want him, I kinda think you want him to throw for like 350 and lose so that he doesn't have to play Bama.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
So far Fields’ stock looks to be on the rise.
rockaction
Footballguy
Where does this mythical winged creature come from? Dallas? Philadelphia? Because it sure won't be the draft if they're any amount respectable.
Fields just got crushed. He's hurt.
Yeah I'm bumping up my % that the Jets take him at 2 from 4% too 6%. He does look good tonight at least thus far in the 1st half.
He also looks like he's got that Cam Newton thing going on where he doesn't get hit often but when he does, he gets absolutely smoked. He needs to get down quicker otherwise he's going to have a very short NFL career.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Definitely don't want Fields. That took a game or two of watching to figure that out.
Zach Wilson's the guy.
Zach Wilson's the guy.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Fields looks incredible.
Hope you get him.
Hope you get him.
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