-OZ-
Footballguy
Oh come on now. Eli isn't Peyton, he's not among the elite, but he's been a good QB.
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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
Chemical X
Footballguy
RUSF18
Footballguy
I don't think it's an unwritten rule, at least both ways. If the draft spots were reversed, I would be SHOCKED if the Jets, in need of a QB, traded down with the Giants so they could potentially draft their next franchise QB leaving the Jets to run the risk of watching that QB play and succeed in their stadium. Even they wouldn't put their fanbase up to that.
But I don't think the Giants care very much about the Jets possibly winning something over on them, after how the last couple decades have gone for both franchises.
My guess is the Giants rejected that offer because they either 1) intend to draft a QB and/or 2) didn't see the point in cashing in 5 weeks before the draft, especially if the Jets moving up to #3 established a baseline for the offer and makes #2 more valuable when people now know #3 will be a QB too.
But I don't think the Giants care very much about the Jets possibly winning something over on them, after how the last couple decades have gone for both franchises.
My guess is the Giants rejected that offer because they either 1) intend to draft a QB and/or 2) didn't see the point in cashing in 5 weeks before the draft, especially if the Jets moving up to #3 established a baseline for the offer and makes #2 more valuable when people now know #3 will be a QB too.
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
This draft seems to me to be very occam's razor like...
Darnold, Rosen, then Jets take Mayfield, yeah there's a chance they take Allen instead but seems like Mayfield is a better fit for the WCO.. but Giants would be nuts to not take a QB here.. I see Cle taking Barkley next not trading out, leaving Allen for Denver.. Colts then take the Guard for Luck.. (or Chubb...)
if Buff or Mia want to move up it's gonna take a very very very large haul...
Darnold, Rosen, then Jets take Mayfield, yeah there's a chance they take Allen instead but seems like Mayfield is a better fit for the WCO.. but Giants would be nuts to not take a QB here.. I see Cle taking Barkley next not trading out, leaving Allen for Denver.. Colts then take the Guard for Luck.. (or Chubb...)
if Buff or Mia want to move up it's gonna take a very very very large haul...
Sweet Love
IBL Representative
I have to admit, those with a good QB are going to get very good players in the top 10...likely better than the QBs that will be taken for them. Now most teams set at QB don't find themselves in the top 10 often (Pats, Pitt, Saints, Seattle, etc.), but if Luck can get back to form, Indy will be in great shape for their rebuild. There is going to be some nice O-Line options in Round 2.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
That could definitely be the other reason. The Giants can still get an absolute monster haul of picks from Buffalo if they so choose. Likely even more now with the Jets at #3.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Is there really a rivalry between the Jets and Giants? I remember disliking them when I lived in NY my first 27 years. Since I moved 24 years ago, I couldn’t care less. I thought most of the rivalry (other sports, too) was media driven.
I was watching that horrible morning show on the NFL Network this morning and they did this bad segment on which team is better and has better celebrity fans, etc.
i guess if you livr in the city and have to deal with fans of the other team, I can see it to a degree. Personally I couldn’t care less about the Giants. I root against Miami and NE.
Your thoughts?
Ps Hurns was cut. Maybe another target. We’ll see if anything happens with Pryor today.
I was watching that horrible morning show on the NFL Network this morning and they did this bad segment on which team is better and has better celebrity fans, etc.
i guess if you livr in the city and have to deal with fans of the other team, I can see it to a degree. Personally I couldn’t care less about the Giants. I root against Miami and NE.
Your thoughts?
Ps Hurns was cut. Maybe another target. We’ll see if anything happens with Pryor today.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Michael Kist @MichaelKistNFL Mar 19
If NYG sticks at 2 to take an RB after having turned down trade offers.. they essentially will have spent a top pick & three 2nd rounders on a position that the league values (and pays) like kickers. Pick a QB or take a war chest. This isn't hard.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I do agree that taking a trade down would be a nice option for them and that still could happen. Buffalo has a lot of ammunition and they may get an even better deal.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Boy you really are snippy about questioning sources you don't agree with. Ad hoc much? Easy their big fella.
Point is to evaluate the take not nit picking the source , this take has value. (you can look him up because a former GM of two teams retweeted him so he probably has some credibility).
And??? They can take the QB that they need if they don't trade down which is the most likely possibility.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I do think there's a very good chance that the Giants take a QB - I just don't agree its such a sure thing. Everybody is just guessing even these random twitter guys - but you like to post the ones that agree with you and somehow construe it as persuasive.
I saw five mocks this morning 2 had the Brown taking Barkley, one had the Giants taking Nelson and 2 had the Browns and Giants both taking a QB - so all the guesses do not add up to anything but just an opinion of the person offering it.
I'm just offering my opinions as well and frankly I think it's just as meaningful as anyone's because I'm basing it on what I hear, read, see etc. - just like random twitter guys.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The Giants GM and HC have both said the Eli is their QB for the next 2-3 years and they are fully confident with him. Giant beat reporters have said that many in the organization see Davis Webb as the heir apparent and really like him. Just because you think the Giants need a QB, it doesn't mean that they do.
Once again - the Giants may take a QB and if I was a Giants fan I'd be 100% ok with them doing so. I just don't see it as a given based on things I've heard. You think it's 100% guaranteed. Let's move on.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
When speaking of the top three picks their are only three outcomes that will happen but the scenarios that people can speculate on are as endless as their imaginations and biases which you clearly have. You want the Jets to have more QB possibilities so you keep insisting the Giants will not take a QB even in the face of need and availability and rare opportunity and now we know the Jets offered three 2nd-round picks and were turned down and the Jets tried to get the top pick and were turned down.
- Did the Jets trade up for Barkley?
- Chubb?
- Nelson?
- Minka?
- OR A QUARTERBACK?
Then ask: Why did the Browns and Giants turn down the Jets offer?
Because they wanted to get a RB, DE, G, DB, OR A QUARTERBACK?
Need, opportunity, availability, and positional value all come into play.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
RUSF18
Footballguy
It's probably similar to Yanks-Mets. You have one team that has had much more success both on the field and in front office/behind the scenes competence, while the other has quite the opposite. Jets/Mets fans (I'm a Mets fan) have a bit of little brother syndrome as a result, and Yanks/Giants fans know it's smart not to "punch down".
I don't think much of that extends to the front office though, for purposes of the original question.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The Jets and Giants are partners in a stadium - while there may be a "rivalry" among fans (although I have no hate at all for the Giants), I agree. I do not think either would pass on a deal that benefits both.
-OZ-
Footballguy
The crazy thing imo is the Giants are almost equally well off taking a QB, Barkley, Chubb, or a case can be made for Nelson. Which adds up to, imo, trading down to 6 would have been ideal.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
What I truly think is what I said above. They just weren’t ready to make a move yet. They want to evaluate all of their options and see what the best move is. If Barkley, Chubb or Nelson are future All Pros, maybe it’s not worth the risk of losing them. If they want a QB, which one? If they want to trade down it will still be there for them. The Bills will probably pay even more than what the Jets offered, ultimately.
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Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I agree the Giants didn't need to rush. The Jets move should make the #2 pick more valuable now since the Colts were not expected to want a QB there.
Allen and Darnold haven't even had their pro days yet.
Allen and Darnold haven't even had their pro days yet.
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Impossible - the Giants are 100% taking a QB.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Except the Jets take Allen and 3/4 of Jets fans will be mad as a hornet's nest and 90% of everyone else laughs at them. It's so Jets that we all see it in our crystal ball.Riversco said:
McCags then says this is the QB we targeted all along and praises the job of the scouts.
Then Todd Bowles steps up and mumbles throughout the press conference showing no emotion at all while internally seething that we didn't add a pass rusher to help him win now. We'll never know he's angry because he believes an old tale that his mom once told him as a boy that if his blood pressure reaches 121 over 80, his heart will explode.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
You might as well share your opinion publicly and get some clicks like Manish. All day long fans ask Manish and Rich, who are we picking? Can you please come on our radio show or blog? These clowns are peddling their own speculation with no ties to any inside info just like how we didn't hear a peep out of them throughout free agency other than their bs "sources confirm that Adam Shefter is correct that we are signing.....". No one knows anything right now. It's all their own guesses and speculation like you said.Dr. Octopus said:
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I guess it's good we'll have McCown and Teddy to get killed behind our o-line while the rookie sits on the bench.
Reaper
Footballguy
Given ALL this and "Conflicting Goals"...... Gonna be so interesting to see when they play the Rookie.
I imagine they play McCown or TB and if they win some games that QB starts until the playoffs are out of the picture...
I mean "We can't let the players down who think they are a playoff team" will me the mantra again... Chasing that short term Carrot like always..
Either way, like the last rookie who started - I'm a fan of Rookies sitting at least a few games to get the whole NFL scheduling, Weekly routine down and see how the other QB's attack it.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
yep - really wish they upgraded a bit more....couldnt fix everything in 1 offseason I guess....lots of $ next yr as well to concentrate on OL....maybe grab a T in the 3rd.
Reaper
Footballguy
Time will tell but, I just feel like you Have Darnold/Rosen then the next tier and I put L Jackson right in there - So, that's 5 QB's.
Imagine 5 Qb's drafted 1-5?????
Hey, we'll all Pray for Macc but, when we take Allen after spending all those picks to do it and Miami takes Mayfield or Jackson at 11 who become the next Great thing it will be another sad chapter....
I just wish this trade was for the #2 pick and we could rest a little easier this next month....
NYRAGE
Footballguy
We didn't have a pro center, so that had to be upgraded/replaced. Outside of center (and back-up swing tackle), I don't think we were linked to any other positions on the o-line. That's a little troubling since every position on that line could be upgraded.
Crowell helps, but I think they are still looking for an electric pass-catching RB, hence the interest in Mackinnon. I could see us getting a RB in the third round. If not, maybe an OLB in the third and a RB in the 4th.
I expect them to land either Hurns or Pryor. I'm not sure they believe Anderson will be available all season plus you have Enunwa coming off injury and suspect rookie performances from Stewart and Hansen. Kearse was solid, but no defense worries about him.
Leggett, Tomlinson, and Sterling is underwhelming at TE.
On defense, I guess they expect the safeties to greatly improve in their second year. Trumaine Johnson helps a lot. Now we have 2 good CBs. Skrine is better in the slot, but the slot and middle of our field will still be a weakness. They took a look at Dansby, so they're looking for another ILB and they still need a pass-rushing OLB. Our d-line can use another body, too.
I expect our rookie QB to sit all year. Let's see what Teddy B can do HOPEFULLY they upgrade the o-line next season.
Crowell helps, but I think they are still looking for an electric pass-catching RB, hence the interest in Mackinnon. I could see us getting a RB in the third round. If not, maybe an OLB in the third and a RB in the 4th.
I expect them to land either Hurns or Pryor. I'm not sure they believe Anderson will be available all season plus you have Enunwa coming off injury and suspect rookie performances from Stewart and Hansen. Kearse was solid, but no defense worries about him.
Leggett, Tomlinson, and Sterling is underwhelming at TE.
On defense, I guess they expect the safeties to greatly improve in their second year. Trumaine Johnson helps a lot. Now we have 2 good CBs. Skrine is better in the slot, but the slot and middle of our field will still be a weakness. They took a look at Dansby, so they're looking for another ILB and they still need a pass-rushing OLB. Our d-line can use another body, too.
I expect our rookie QB to sit all year. Let's see what Teddy B can do HOPEFULLY they upgrade the o-line next season.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Yep. Manning might be able to squeeze out one more year but he's essentially done.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
We’ll see. I’m sticking with them taking Barkley, but I know I could surely be wrong. I think they’re more likely to trade out then take a QB though. They like Eli and Webb.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don’t think Pryor is a very good WR - but he’s athletic enough to add some excitement at least. I’d prefer for them to wait out Hurns.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
@Hankmoody speculated that in the trade thread. I'm not necessarily making that connection yet, but its interesting and I sure hope so.
rockaction
Footballguy
My brother was convinced they were in win-now mode and that they would take Barkley. Now, not so much with the JPP trade and Chubb out there.
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