rockaction
Footballguy
WHAT A FREAKING HAUL FOR THIS GUY
YES I'M YELLING
#### YEAH GOODBYE ASSET YOU GOT US A BOATLOAD OF ASSETS COMING
YES I'M YELLING
#### YEAH GOODBYE ASSET YOU GOT US A BOATLOAD OF ASSETS COMING
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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
Seriously, nice work by Douglas.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Agreed. This is why the Jets never sustain any kind of winning. You draft a guy with the hopes that he turns into a stud, which Adams did, and instead of keeping him happy, they pissed him off and eventually had to trade him for draft picks to where the odds of drafting a guy as good at him again are remote. More brilliance from the Jets. Props to them for getting that much in a trade for a safety, but true studs in the NFL are rare, and they just lost one.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Not really even close. About as right about your take on punk rock. He's a stud at safety. The Jets just traded away an non-scarce option (a run stopping safety. Ooooooh.) for a shot at hitting at scarcity. You can't pay for that in the NFL.
This is like having the best prog rock band and dumping it for something listenable.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Great trade for the Jets
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JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Minka trade looking better and better
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Was Jon Schneider ever a good GM or did he just get really lucky for a draft or two?
Bad in the 1st round
Good after that--though I agree the Seahawks have had some crappy drafts lately and that is going to hurt them big in these last prime years of Wilson
seahawk 17
Footballguy
I just heard the news and I am shocked...not the good kind of shocked.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
i agree with you that teams need top players to win....the jets lost a top player....but at a position of least impact....who wanted top defensive player money and showed his true colors the last few months.....ill take the hail they got in a second!
Id be the 1st one to jump on the jets for losing a stud player - but all they did was refuse to break the bank for a player who had 2 and possibly 3 yrs left on his contract....kinda the point to have a good player on a cheap contract....paying him the kind of $ he wanted and caving would have been bad for the organization and set a bad example for future.....
The fact that JD got a solid piece for this yr....2 1st rders and a move up from the 4th to the 3rd rd is simply incredible....after 1 yr he is already the best GM the Jets have had in decades!
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
side note on cap numbers
trade saves $1.7M for the cap this yr - which if they dont sign anyone else could be rolled into next yr.....
no Jamal saves at least $9.5M on cap next yr - and even more if he was looking for $18-20M yr
so along with the 2 1st rders, McDougal and trade up to 3rd rd - lots of cap savings for flexibility
this was a move the Jets had to make....I completely trust JD to use these assets wisely and expect a very competitive team in the yrs ahead
trade saves $1.7M for the cap this yr - which if they dont sign anyone else could be rolled into next yr.....
no Jamal saves at least $9.5M on cap next yr - and even more if he was looking for $18-20M yr
so along with the 2 1st rders, McDougal and trade up to 3rd rd - lots of cap savings for flexibility
this was a move the Jets had to make....I completely trust JD to use these assets wisely and expect a very competitive team in the yrs ahead
Kiddnets
Footballguy
if they fired Gase at the same time they announced this deal I may have passed out of happiness!
No such luck - Gase will at least get the season...possibly more
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
He drafted Russell Wilson late and if I'm not mistaken, brought Marshawn in, plus helped construct that defense with Carroll. That'll earn you so many points you'll coast for a decade.
eta* And he's had the guts and intelligence to admit his own mistakes and let talent dictate who plays, not draft capital nor cost. That's a humble pie lesson not many GMs know of.
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wgoldsph
Footballguy
On the shoulders of giants...
Wilson was a second round pick but he was considered too short to be a legitimate starting qb. I don't know if this was before or after Miami decided on Culpepper over Brees but it was around that time so quarterback size was a big thing.
rockaction
Footballguy
Unquestionably. Just a juxtaposition.
Yup. You're exactly right. My point is more that the second round is very late for a quarterback of any collegiate import to slip down to, leaving GMs to wonder whether they've missed something in their scouting. And it was exactly his size that did him in regarding draft position. I remember the camera set up at his house during draft day, actually. I remember his girlfriend was there and thinking something about it not lasting. Guess not. But that's neither here nor there. Schneider won an SB, should have had two, and has a lot of leeway in the Pacific NW, I'm sure.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Adams was a fun player to watch, but this was a move that had to be made at this point. I'm sure he feels like a winner forcing his way out, so good for him I guess.
They will be late first rounders, but considering how badly this guy was poisoning the well, its still a great haul. Getting a veteran starter (although I have no idea if he's any good) to replace him was also a nice touch.
Obviously we wont know whether this "worked" for years, but it had to be done.
They will be late first rounders, but considering how badly this guy was poisoning the well, its still a great haul. Getting a veteran starter (although I have no idea if he's any good) to replace him was also a nice touch.
Obviously we wont know whether this "worked" for years, but it had to be done.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
In my profession I had choices when I graduated college. I didn't get picked by a company against my will and forced to spend several years in an obviously dysfunctional situation. I understand the NFL and most careers are completely different. I'm don't think anyone is suggesting they should be the same. Comparing a player being drafted to a team to signing a non-compete is silly. Going back to the draft isn't a real option.
Honestly I wish we saw this more. Gase is a bad coach and players don't want to play for him. Everyone but the Jets seems to know this. They see Tannehill, Parker and Drake thriving without him and Bell struggling with him. He's probably going to waste Darnold. The reason why bad teams stay bad for years in the nfl is there isn't much of a punishment for it. If more players said "I don't want to play for the Browns/Redskins/Jets because of their well documented ineptitude" I think that would incentive those teams to make real changes.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
What was wrong? That the Jets just lost a stud? That this kind of instability is why the Jets don't win consistently? That the odds are not good of them drafting a player of Adams' caliber with one of the draft picks? Help me out here.
Considering teams knew that the Jets were likely looking to trade Adams, I definitely give their GM big props for getting so much for him.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Because what did the Jets do to piss him off, not pay him three years before they had to? He was still well paid since he was a top 6 pick.What was wrong? That the Jets just lost a stud? That this kind of instability is why the Jets don't win consistently? That the odds are not good of them drafting a player of Adams' caliber with one of the draft picks? Help me out here.
Considering teams knew that the Jets were likely looking to trade Adams, I definitely give their GM big props for getting so much for him.
He’s a very good player but not at a premier position and he’s demanding to be paid as a top defensive player. Because the Jets weren’t willing to give him what he wants well before it would be prudent he acts like a child and starts trashing the organization that’s been good to him.
I realize draft picks are no sure things but I easily take 2 firsts and a third and build at core positions.
Douglass has shown he understands roster construction, something Mac failed at miserably. Jets have options with those picks to add weapons or protection for Sam or even a more important defensive position than strong safety.
rockaction
Footballguy
...
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rockaction
Footballguy
Seattle has apparently given up on signing Clowney given this move. I wonder what their lines will be like. Right now they're Russell, a receiver or two, Chris Carson, and no real offensive or defensive line to speak of. They've got decent linebackers. Yay. This might be a team that just gave up some mid-round firsts rather than late ones.
TLEF316
Footballguy
In the NFL, if you don't have a qb, you have nothing.
And if you have a top 5 QB, you can get away with having basically nothing else. You won't win the whole thing, but you'll be in the playoff hunt.
Seattle will be in the mix as long as Wilson is standing. Expecting the picks to be higher than like 23 will leave you disappointed.
And if you have a top 5 QB, you can get away with having basically nothing else. You won't win the whole thing, but you'll be in the playoff hunt.
Seattle will be in the mix as long as Wilson is standing. Expecting the picks to be higher than like 23 will leave you disappointed.
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The Dreaded Marco
Footballguy
Wilson was a 3rd round pick.
Giving up 2 first round picks seems too steep. I hope Schneider knows what he is doing. As a Seattle fan, I'm not happy.........
rockaction
Footballguy
Hooper31
Footballguy
Third round pick. They took Bobby Wagner in the second that year. Not too often a GM nails two HOF players on back to back picks.
TLEF316
Footballguy
uh......congrats?
The guy went scorched earth and wasn't gonna shut his mouth until he got paid 3 years early (and honestly would probably complain again in a year or 2). Its not like they WANTED to trade him for draft picks. The situation had become untenable due to Adams' unrealistic demands (both in terms of the $$ he wanted and how soon he was demanding it)
Now he'll probably play nice in Seattle for this season. But the contract talk will start up again next Spring. Lets see if the Seahawks really want to pony up $18+M for a safety.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah what TLEF316 said. Hope you have an extension ready for the man. He's not going to accept not being paid. Just wait.
Last year's class looks pretty good. Collier was injured for a lot of the year, so the jury is still out there. Blair and Barton looked solid when called upon though, and Metcalf looks like a potential stud.
ETA: The last 1st rounder Seattle really hit on was Earl Thomas in 2010 so maybe they are just tired of missing with top picks?
With these extra 1st rounders, I can't help but wonder if Sam Darnold's job could be in trouble if he doesn't have a breakout year. I'd feel bad for the guy, being tied to Gase and all, but assuming the Jets season goes to its likeliest path, its another season under .500, with a coaching change, in what looks to be a great QB class.
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Certainly could
Ideally they'd fire Gase and give Darnold a real coach
But if they are in a position to take a top 3 QB maybe not
Either way though unless Darnold goes full Trubisky I think he will be fine
Even if the Jets take a QB, Darnold has shown enough to get traded to a team looking for their QB of the future but not picking high enough to draft one (Colts, Saints. Steelers, Bucs)--may even be better for him in the long run
Even Rosen who was way worse with a comparable supporting cast got a 2nd chance (before he sucked there too)
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I believe they will be a good team but they are in a tough division, especially if Arizona makes a leap.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I'm JUST hearing about this trade right now.
Obviously massive haul of draft picks. Jet fans should be happy.
Seattle?
Jamal is a stud and fits as the linchpin of what Seattle does on defense.
The safety they gave up was replaced in the trade but those draft picks.
The only thing I can figure is the effects of COVID19 and the uncertainty of future picks. Some colleges are calling off the season and some of the big schools have already canceled some games. Who knows what this college season or future seasons will look like. Their will be an effect next year but the uncertainty 'could' play into the Jets hands if a talent falls.
Definitely a win on paper right now for the Jets.
Obviously massive haul of draft picks. Jet fans should be happy.
Seattle?
Jamal is a stud and fits as the linchpin of what Seattle does on defense.
The safety they gave up was replaced in the trade but those draft picks.
The only thing I can figure is the effects of COVID19 and the uncertainty of future picks. Some colleges are calling off the season and some of the big schools have already canceled some games. Who knows what this college season or future seasons will look like. Their will be an effect next year but the uncertainty 'could' play into the Jets hands if a talent falls.
Definitely a win on paper right now for the Jets.
Hooper31
Footballguy
Just read this in a tweet. Think it’s a solid take on the situation
We often look for a winner and a loser in every trade. I think the cheesy truth is that both sides can win. Teams are in different places. The Jets aren't contenders. If I was the Jets, I would rather have two 1.20's and McDougald. If I was the Seahawks I'd rather have Adams.
http://twitter.com/grizwald87/status/1287390663898611713
We often look for a winner and a loser in every trade. I think the cheesy truth is that both sides can win. Teams are in different places. The Jets aren't contenders. If I was the Jets, I would rather have two 1.20's and McDougald. If I was the Seahawks I'd rather have Adams.
http://twitter.com/grizwald87/status/1287390663898611713
rockaction
Footballguy
I think that's what everybody is really saying. PFF and ESPN tried to quantify the trade, one with win shares and the other with surplus value, and both favored the Jets' side of it. But there's a large caveat: Seattle seems to know what it's doing the past decade, especially in the secondary. Both articles noted the movement from a cover one defense to a cover two defense. Maybe they go back to cover one? Who knows? Carroll deserves some slack, though, for his previous construction of the Legion of Boom.Should be interesting to see how it all works out.
As another poster pointed out, the extra cap money can help enable them to sign the stud DE they need to get their defense inline with other top defenses in nfc. So this is probably a case where both teams got what they wanted in the deal. The key now is for Jets to not butt fumble by drafting $h*tty.
Should be interesting to see how it all works out.
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I'm looking at this deal two days later and frankly, I'm astonished Douglass was able to pull this off. Think about this for a second, Douglass got more from the Seahawks than the Raiders got for Kalil Mack and what the Jaguars got for Jalen Ramsey both of whom play much more premium type positions. Too me this is more about Joe Douglass than it is about Jamal Adams. For Douglass to have gotten the haul he got for a guy who was kicking and screaming the past few months and on paper was hurting his trade stock as well as Douglass position to deal him, for JD to get what he got is just crazy nuts bonkers and I'm still shaking my head as this kind of #### just doesn't happen for the Jets..it just doesn't!
As you guys know, I've been singing the praises for Douglass since he came on board last summer as I kind of assumed his pedigree, his having learned under Ozzie Newsome and even Howie Roseman, two of the more successful GM's from two of the more successful teams over the past 20 years, would likely bode well for us.Douglass was a very big reason why both the Ravens and Eagles won SB's while he was with those respective teams. It certainly didn't hurt that previous GM's the Jets have had over the years have been pathetic and abysmal, but the positive vibe that Douglass gave off coming in here was obvious, at least too me it was.
And he certainly hasn't dissapointed. I mean if you think about it, other than the Ryan Kalil signing which to be honest, I can't blame him for the swing and miss as Jets were desperate, pretty much everything he has done since coming here, has been solid. We don't know for sure how the draft he orchestrated will end up being for a few years but I don't think as a perfect example of Douglase's savvy and football acumen, it's an accident whatsover he drafted Ashtyn Davis earlier than some observers thought.
No question while some of us Jet fans were wondering why are we drafting a safety so early in the draft when we had so many other glaring needs, Douglass I have no doubt had a gut feeling that what happened with Adams just might occur and he wanted to have some options. This is what good GM's do and it's something being a Jet fan as I have been for almost 50 years, I'm not used too...lol
Anyways, I'll miss Jamal's play on the field no doubt as he was a warrior and a great Jet during his short time here. Off the field tho, good riddance. I was tired of his crying whiny BS and tho he might have got what he wanted, he's still not getting paid yet and so let's see how this plays out for him and the Seattle.
Bottom line, this is a very very good day in Jetland and those of y'all who don't like the deal are not looking at the forest thru the trees here. Douglass pulled off some magic here and just like I feel about Jeff Gorton with the NY Rangers, I feel same way about Douglass with the Jets. In Joe We Trust!!.....Go Jets!
As you guys know, I've been singing the praises for Douglass since he came on board last summer as I kind of assumed his pedigree, his having learned under Ozzie Newsome and even Howie Roseman, two of the more successful GM's from two of the more successful teams over the past 20 years, would likely bode well for us.Douglass was a very big reason why both the Ravens and Eagles won SB's while he was with those respective teams. It certainly didn't hurt that previous GM's the Jets have had over the years have been pathetic and abysmal, but the positive vibe that Douglass gave off coming in here was obvious, at least too me it was.
And he certainly hasn't dissapointed. I mean if you think about it, other than the Ryan Kalil signing which to be honest, I can't blame him for the swing and miss as Jets were desperate, pretty much everything he has done since coming here, has been solid. We don't know for sure how the draft he orchestrated will end up being for a few years but I don't think as a perfect example of Douglase's savvy and football acumen, it's an accident whatsover he drafted Ashtyn Davis earlier than some observers thought.
No question while some of us Jet fans were wondering why are we drafting a safety so early in the draft when we had so many other glaring needs, Douglass I have no doubt had a gut feeling that what happened with Adams just might occur and he wanted to have some options. This is what good GM's do and it's something being a Jet fan as I have been for almost 50 years, I'm not used too...lol
Anyways, I'll miss Jamal's play on the field no doubt as he was a warrior and a great Jet during his short time here. Off the field tho, good riddance. I was tired of his crying whiny BS and tho he might have got what he wanted, he's still not getting paid yet and so let's see how this plays out for him and the Seattle.
Bottom line, this is a very very good day in Jetland and those of y'all who don't like the deal are not looking at the forest thru the trees here. Douglass pulled off some magic here and just like I feel about Jeff Gorton with the NY Rangers, I feel same way about Douglass with the Jets. In Joe We Trust!!.....Go Jets!
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Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
I think this is what people were saying after the Mack trade as well. Obviously it hasn't worked out for the Bears but that is probably due to Mitch more than anything. I think the Adams trade is good for both sides but it is way easier giving up those picks when you have a QB like Wilson.
I really wonder why we don't see more trades like the Browns Osweiller trade a few years ago that was effectively a salary dump. You have a team like KC that wants to give their players big contracts. If you prioritize keeping the band together over draft capital, you could find a way to trade picks to add cap room.
Not sure how to quantify it, but there is some percentage chance that an abbreviated or cancelled college football season will substantially impact the value of draft picks for 21, maybe 22 if you are seeing player who generally play 3 years lose a year of development and increased difficulty of scouting old tape
I've read something similar to that. Hence why it's even more critical and crucial to have a GM who knows what the F he's doing. Even in this scenario where there wouldn't be a college football season this year, I'd still trust Douglass to make the right moves and improve the team.
Chemical X
Footballguy
i'd call myself a 40+ year jet fan. I don't blame Adams for not wanting to be here, this is a terrible organization that loses. Historical drafts are almost laughable. Total decision making is non existant. I am pessimistic about Gase, Douglas needs to show me something cause this team's history is brutal. That said, the Jets were 16-32 with Adams being called a premier defender. SS is simply not a premier position. He wanted to be paid years early in a global pandemic. Who knows what anything looks like, why pay a guy early and lock money when you are gonna have to pay Darnold too. I think Ashtyn Davis will be a functional replacement. McDougald can play. To say the Seahawks picks will be low misses the fact that this league changes from week to week and we remain in a pandemic. 1 or 2 injuries and a funky schedule could make anyone 7-9. The Jets got burnt on Wilkerson. They were smart on L Williams. Stop paying middling guys big money. Not saying Adams is middling, but be wary of guys on losing teams that have stats. I won't dispute Adams is a player, but on a different team will he be asked to blitz or cover? Will he be in the box all the time? I hate getting picks, cause this team can't draft, but i hate paying a malcontent. The one thing i always know is that guys are replaceable, at every position. I am praying Douglas has a clue and dumps Gase after this year, constructs a roster and turns this thing around. Is Adams a winning player? Honestly, who knows. The return is worth the deal IMO.
Definitely, I just didn’t see it acknowledged in the conclusion that the Jets ripped off Seattle. Teams are valuing those picks differently, which in typical markets allows arbitrage opportunity.
Financial commitments to first rounders vs later are substantial and if variance is much higher in player outcome the value equations change. It’s kind of how Belicheck has always approached the draft historically. He’d rather more shots at hitting than a potential big swing and miss
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