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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (6 Viewers)

Hot Sauce Guy said:
I appreciate your take. I've ready pretty much nothing but positives, so this lends some balance.

This quoted part doesn't really make sense though - if Wilson was on the board at 3, the Niners would have been thrilled. I've heard Shanny say they loved all 3 of the top guys on the board, so they took the one that was there for them. 

The Niners jumping up to take the guy who's left can't really mean anything about how they felt about the guy who was taken a pick before them. That's kinda weird logic. 

The rest certainly seem like valid concerns though & I appreciate your taking the time. 

ETA: full disclosure, I'm a Niners fan, and a new Z.Wilson owner (got him in a Mahomes deal) 
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Its mostly because one of big reasons people kept hyping Wilson (compared to....Fields, for example)  to the Jets was scheme fit. (since his supposed strengths are processing speed and short window accuracy)  But clearly the Niners felt Lance was a scheme fit as well. And frankly....they would know better, as the guys in charge have more experience.

So to me.....it seems like we got the lesser physical specimen  when choosing between 2 guys built for (or at least capable of) running the same system.

The truth is....we dont know whether SF would taken Wilson over Lance had both been available to them.

And while I love nearly everything that Joe Douglas has done for the Jets, it looks like he's already 0-1 on QB evals. He took James Morgan in the 4th last year and he apparently wasn't even good enough to dress as the backup for meaningless games in a totally lost year.

 
TLEF316 said:
Again....nowhere near an expert and maybe my generally negative nature towards the Jets is clouding my through process. But that's what I see. The fact that the 49ers (who run the same exact offense) jumped right in and grabbed Lance immediately afterwards at 3....with no hesitation, makes me even more concerned. I know he has even less of a history and played even worse competition than Wilson, but he's much more athletic/powerful and I think he has a safer/more transferable combination of frame and skill set.
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We may never know if SF would have taken Wilson, but I think that's a terrible argument to make.  It's probably your Jets fan bias coming through since we have a deep history of screwing things up.

If you had said, "I think the Wilson pick was bad because the Jets always screw up" then that would have been more acceptable than the SF taking Lance reasoning.

 
TLEF316 said:
Again....nowhere near an expert and maybe my generally negative nature towards the Jets is clouding my through process. But that's what I see. The fact that the 49ers (who run the same exact offense) jumped right in and grabbed Lance immediately afterwards at 3....with no hesitation, makes me even more concerned. I know he has even less of a history and played even worse competition than Wilson, but he's much more athletic/powerful and I think he has a safer/more transferable combination of frame and skill set.
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We may never know if SF would have taken Wilson, but I think that's a terrible argument to make.  It's probably your Jets fan bias coming through since we have a deep history of screwing things up.

If you had said, "I think the Wilson pick was bad because the Jets always screw up" then that would have been more acceptable than the SF taking Lance reasoning.

 
rockaction said:
It's been a while since the draft, and I still have no idea who San Francisco truly wanted at three.
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I've heard plenty of interviews. It was Lance all along. They believed 1-2 would go as they did, and they had no interest in Fields or Mac because they didn't fit Shanny's system. 

It seemed like a pretty straightforward decision. From what I've heard/read, they would have loved Lawrence or Wilson but were resigned to the fact that they'd go 1-2, which they did. 

I don't think there's any mystery here. Lance was their guy. And they paid a lot to go get him. 

 
NYRAGE said:
We may never know if SF would have taken Wilson, but I think that's a terrible argument to make.  It's probably your Jets fan bias coming through since we have a deep history of screwing things up.

If you had said, "I think the Wilson pick was bad because the Jets always screw up" then that would have been more acceptable than the SF taking Lance reasoning.
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Yeah, I just don't get that logic at all The Niners "jumped up" to take a player who was available - that can't possibly be an indictment of Wilson since he wasn't on the board for the Niners to even consider. 

Now, if the Niners then traded down and didn't take a QB, we would know for sure Wilson was their guy, but that wouldn't make any sense either since they'd paid through the nose to go up and get their guy at 3. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I've heard plenty of interviews. It was Lance all along. They believed 1-2 would go as they did, and they had no interest in Fields or Mac because they didn't fit Shanny's system. 

It seemed like a pretty straightforward decision. From what I've heard/read, they would have loved Lawrence or Wilson but were resigned to the fact that they'd go 1-2, which they did. 

I don't think there's any mystery here. Lance was their guy. And they paid a lot to go get him. 
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I mean if they wanted Lance over Wilson. It's pretty clear they didn't want Mac and Fields, or those would have been their guys. I'm assuming Lawrence was rated first, but I'm not sure how they had Wilson/Lance. And they'll take that one to their grave (or until Lance is no longer a 49er, but that's in the future).

 
rockaction said:
I mean if they wanted Lance over Wilson. It's pretty clear they didn't want Mac and Fields, or those would have been their guys. I'm assuming Lawrence was rated first, but I'm not sure how they had Wilson/Lance. And they'll take that one to their grave (or until Lance is no longer a 49er, but that's in the future).
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Oh - yeah, got it. Sorry, that was unclear in your post. 

I agree - if Wilson fell to them, would they have still taken Lance? I mean, they traded up at an exorbitant cost, presumably knowing Lawrence & Wilson would be gone.  So clearly they valued Lance enough, but yeah - I have no idea what they would have done if somehow both Lance & Wilson were on the board. Interesting question. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Oh - yeah, got it. Sorry, that was unclear in your post. 

I agree - if Wilson fell to them, would they have still taken Lance? I mean, they traded up at an exorbitant cost, presumably knowing Lawrence & Wilson would be gone.  So clearly they valued Lance enough, but yeah - I have no idea what they would have done if somehow both Lance & Wilson were on the board. Interesting question. 
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Yeah, I was unclear. My apologies.

 
NYRAGE said:
We may never know if SF would have taken Wilson, but I think that's a terrible argument to make.  It's probably your Jets fan bias coming through since we have a deep history of screwing things up.

If you had said, "I think the Wilson pick was bad because the Jets always screw up" then that would have been more acceptable than the SF taking Lance reasoning.
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You're probably right.

I just have this visual of Salah and Shannahan casually chatting prior to the pro days.

"Oh yeah, you should TOTALLY take Wilson. Kid looks like Mahomes. Check out all those off-balance throws"

"You know what...I think you're right. I think I WILL!!"

And then Shanny falls all over himself running to the phone to trade up with Philly and get Lance.

I KNOW that's not what actually happened. But I still can't help but picture it.

 
TLEF316 said:
You're probably right.

I just have this visual of Salah and Shannahan casually chatting prior to the pro days.

"Oh yeah, you should TOTALLY take Wilson. Kid looks like Mahomes. Check out all those off-balance throws"

"You know what...I think you're right. I think I WILL!!"

And then Shanny falls all over himself running to the phone to trade up with Philly and get Lance.

I KNOW that's not what actually happened. But I still can't help but picture it.
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lol - careful...I casually suggested that their relationship was why Shanny knew 1.02 was gonna be Wilson and gave them confidence to trade up and a few members laid into me over the mere suggestion. 

Collusion is as serious in real football as in fantasy leagues, apparently. 

(I still think that's exactly what went down)

:scared:

 
TLEF316 said:
And while I love nearly everything that Joe Douglas has done for the Jets, it looks like he's already 0-1 on QB evals. He took James Morgan in the 4th last year and he apparently wasn't even good enough to dress as the backup for meaningless games in a totally lost year.
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I'm not sure how fair that is, as no one really should expect much from a 4th round QB - plus I'm not sure how much the decision not to dress him fell with Gase. I'm not calling it a good pick, I'm just not sure it was a terrible pick yet.

 
As to the issue of the 49ers liking Wilson......I recall Steve Young throwing a hissy fit when it became clear the Jets were locking in on the kid,,,,,he really wanted him for SF and with his SF/BYU connections I can see that coming from SF.....I think they liked both wilson and Lance....would have been thrilled if Wilson dropped to them...

 
Kiddnets said:
As to the issue of the 49ers liking Wilson......I recall Steve Young throwing a hissy fit when it became clear the Jets were locking in on the kid,,,,,he really wanted him for SF and with his SF/BYU connections I can see that coming from SF.....I think they liked both wilson and Lance....would have been thrilled if Wilson dropped to them...
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Pre-draft I had it ranked Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance.

From what I’ve seen of Wilson, he’s gonna be a good QB. Jets have some weapons in the receiving game & I love their coach & OC (they were my Niners OC & DC)

I see a positive culture change & a QB who can get out of the pocket & make ridiculous plays downfield with a flick of the wrist. 

Vegas has the Jets at 6 wins. It’s a tough bet but I’d probably wager the over. Not by a lot, but I could see 7-8 (wins) if things break right.  Improved OL, Michael Carter toting the rock. A defense that can keep them in games. That’s not a bad recipe. 

 I have a feeling this offense is going to be better than folks are giving them credit for. 

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Pre-draft I had it ranked Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance.

From what I’ve seen of Wilson, he’s gonna be a good QB. Jets have some weapons in the receiving game & I love their coach & OC (they were my Niners OC & DC)

I see a positive culture change & a QB who can get out of the pocket & make ridiculous plays downfield with a flick of the wrist. 

Vegas has the Jets at 6 wins. It’s a tough bet but I’d probably wager the over. Not by a lot, but I could see 7-8 if things break right.  Improved OL, Michael Carter toting the rock. A defense that can keep them in games. That’s not a bad recipe. 

 I have a feeling this offense is going to be better than folks are giving them credit for. 
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Gonna be tough to go 7-8. You might mean 8-9. Or 7-10. But probably not 7-8.

 
Oh this is awful. 
 

“Jets passing-game coordinator Greg Knapp is in critical condition following a weekend bike accident.

Per NBC Denver's Mike Klis, 58-year-old Knapp's bike was struck by a car. Knapp's agent has confirmed he suffered "serious injuries." Knapp has spent more than two decades as an NFL assistant, including stints as the offensive coordinator in San Francisco, Atlanta, Seattle and Oakland. He served as Falcons QBs coach from 2018-20 before being added to coach Robert Saleh's inaugural staff in New York. Our thoughts are with Knapp and his family.”

if prayers are your thing, get em up for Greg Knapp. He was a much loved member of the Niners staff, and this sounds serious. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Oh this is awful. 
 

“Jets passing-game coordinator Greg Knapp is in critical condition following a weekend bike accident.

Per NBC Denver's Mike Klis, 58-year-old Knapp's bike was struck by a car. Knapp's agent has confirmed he suffered "serious injuries." Knapp has spent more than two decades as an NFL assistant, including stints as the offensive coordinator in San Francisco, Atlanta, Seattle and Oakland. He served as Falcons QBs coach from 2018-20 before being added to coach Robert Saleh's inaugural staff in New York. Our thoughts are with Knapp and his family.”

if prayers are your thing, get em up for Greg Knapp. He was a much loved member of the Niners staff, and this sounds serious. 
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Yeah this blows. Good dude. Hope he gets back soon. Wonder what they do with Zach in the meantime. 

 
-jb- said:
Yeah this blows. Good dude. Hope he gets back soon. Wonder what they do with Zach in the meantime. 
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I’m sure he’s being coached by their staff, but yeah - probably not their top concern at the moment.

Knapp is beloved by everyone he’s ever worked with & several teams consider him family, including both the current and former Bay Area franchises. 

The accident happened about 20 mins from where I live. Really hoping he pulls through. It sounds bad. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I’m sure he’s being coached by their staff, but yeah - probably not their top concern at the moment.

Knapp is beloved by everyone he’s ever worked with & several teams consider him family, including both the current and former Bay Area franchises. 

The accident happened about 20 mins from where I live. Really hoping he pulls through. It sounds bad. 
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I’m Bay Area too. Where did it happen? Hope he pulls through. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/24/new-york-jets-nick-foles-trade-zach-wilson/?fbclid=IwAR0gF5RAvfbc7U_9bJv65crp2cc08kkkUIeleLO-wZMVIqZ1ExO6xPAJc_M
 

Jets and Bears are in trade talks about Nick Foles.
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eh  - if its for a 6th or 7th and the bears eat some of the $ Im fine with it - speaks volumes on Morgan and his lack of development if they bring in Foles.  After losing Knapp to that tragedy they may want another veteran influence on Wilson....speaking of which I hope they dont let this drift into camp over stupid offset language...he needs to be there day 1

 
Kiddnets said:
eh  - if its for a 6th or 7th and the bears eat some of the $ Im fine with it - speaks volumes on Morgan and his lack of development if they bring in Foles.  After losing Knapp to that tragedy they may want another veteran influence on Wilson....speaking of which I hope they dont let this drift into camp over stupid offset language...he needs to be there day 1
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Considering the signing of Dalton and the drafting of Fields, Chicago will likely consider waiving Foles at some point anyway I doubt they will be asking for more than a 6th or 7th - it will likely be a pick swap in late rounds.

As far as Morgan, I'm not sure why people are so hung up on his development (or lack thereof) - QBs taken in Rounds 4-7 are projects and most will never amount to anything - I get that you can call it a wasted draft pick but for the most part there's a good argument that taking a QB in that range is always a waste of a pick. Third string QBs don't get enough reps to really develop - it's very very rare that any ever amount to anything. It's the reason why guys like Joe Flacco hang around so long. I surely wouldn't feel comfortable heading into the season with Morgan as the backup even if the reports were that he was lighting it up in OTAs.

 
It was the 4thrder that bothered me i guess - look at the hype on Carter...Im expecting big things from him....you spend a 4thI would expect some type of contribution....I get the point that its a dart throw on a QB that late which is why the pick bothers me...need to at least be a backup as a 4th rder and there are a ton of lousy backups so not a high bar.  

 
Kiddnets said:
It was the 4thrder that bothered me i guess - look at the hype on Carter...Im expecting big things from him....you spend a 4thI would expect some type of contribution....I get the point that its a dart throw on a QB that late which is why the pick bothers me...need to at least be a backup as a 4th rder and there are a ton of lousy backups so not a high bar.  
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I really didn’t know much about Morgan when they drafted him, but I wouldn’t count out him becoming a decent backup QB, but I’m not expecting it either.

I generally agree it wasn’t the best use of resources though.

 
TLEF316 said:
Still can't get their top draft pick into camp. The more things change.....
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It's just so silly to worry about offset language. If he's so bad they have to waive him, the HC and GM is gone anyway. And the worry about "prescendent" seems unnecessary as it seems easy to add context to the next negotiation.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
It's just so silly to worry about offset language. If he's so bad they have to waive him, the HC and GM is gone anyway. And the worry about "prescendent" seems unnecessary as it seems easy to add context to the next negotiation.
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The only common link with all these stupid decisions re offsets and timing of paying the signing bonus is the Johnson brothers.  It is stupid and reeks of being cheap.  

The offset language is especially dumb - is there any chance they cut this kid outright within 4 yrs?  Even if he stinks he would be just an expensive backup at $8M per yr (probably less when factoring in signing bonus) - 

The not wanting to pay the signing bonus when the kid signs is moronic - its a signing bonus - pay the kid when he signs...

Jets not looking good with this and have zero leverage as they dont even have a capable backup.....they better cave by the end of the week of this will be one of the dumbest Jets moves out of countless ones in the past.....

 
Kiddnets said:
The only common link with all these stupid decisions re offsets and timing of paying the signing bonus is the Johnson brothers.  It is stupid and reeks of being cheap.  

The offset language is especially dumb - is there any chance they cut this kid outright within 4 yrs?  Even if he stinks he would be just an expensive backup at $8M per yr (probably less when factoring in signing bonus) - 

The not wanting to pay the signing bonus when the kid signs is moronic - its a signing bonus - pay the kid when he signs...

Jets not looking good with this and have zero leverage as they dont even have a capable backup.....they better cave by the end of the week of this will be one of the dumbest Jets moves out of countless ones in the past.....
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Mike White took the first snap at QB today. Oh boy.

 
Jets gonna Jet, apparently. 

The Johnson brothers. It all started at the top. That barely changed. We traded one oompa for the other loompa. Christ. Argh. This stupid franchise with these stupid owners. 

 
Do the Jets care at all about not looking foolish?  Everywhere I look they are being ripped and same ol jets'd over such a trivial issue.  I get that if they cave it will open door for the future but I just dont see the issue.....they are basically fighting over what if our 1st rd pick stinks and we have to cut him....have some confidence and say whatever....its only 4 yrs and even the #2 overall pick is pretty reasonable money....the timing of paying the signing bonus is just cheapness personified - I dont know why they allowed such ridiculous issues to take the shine off such a great offseason....someone needs to figure it out there.  

Also JD did this to himself by not having an established vet in camp....zero pressure on Wilson and his agent as he could walk into camp in late August and start.  Just really poor job by the jets......the more things change the more they remain the same. 

 
Honestly as much as we gave JD some grief - I wouldn't be surprised if the deferred signing bonus wasn't really an issue for the Jets and it was just something JD was using so Wilson/agent can use as a "win" when it was dropped in exchange for them giving in on the offset language.

 
Jamal Adams and LT Duane Brown are not participating in practice at Seahawks camp as they wait for contract extensions. 

Both players reported to avoid fines, but neither is going in the early days of Seahawks camp as they hope for the finishing touches to be put on new contracts. It's the same approach Bobby Wagner successfully employed two years ago. The fact that the Seahawks aren't making a stink about it strongly suggests deals are on the way.  
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J.D. getting two firsts for this turd may go down as one of his best moves.

 
Damien Williams being completely lauded in Bears camp bodes well for the Jets. The Bears will likely only hold a certain amount of running backs, and Khalil Herbert, one of those backs, was on the Jets radar during the run-up to the draft, according to some sources I read back then (I forget who, or how accurate they seemed). But that was the rumor. If Williams and Cohen can play immediate backup (or in Cohen's case, really, play complementary back) to Montgomery, Herbert might be the odd man out there. Look for the Jets to take a flyer on him if that happens and supplement Carter, Coleman, Perine, and Johnson with him. 

This is pure speculation, but it should be on record as something to watch for. 

 
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