What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Greatest Player of All-Time to NEVER be named MVP (1 Viewer)

Yogibear

Yogibear

Footballguy
I'm looking at the Wikipedia page for Drew Brees, and I saw the fact that he's never been named NFL MVP of the regular season at any point of his career.  I don't know how far back the Associated Press MVP award goes, but I do know that ever since 2010. 7 of the 8 MVP Award winners have been quarterbacks, and none of them have been named Drew Brees.  This just leads me to wonder if there's ever been other all-time great players that have never been named MVP.  I think the most obvious one that falls into that category is Jerry Rice.  The MVP award usually goes to either a QB or RB.  The only time that didn't happen was in 1986 when Lawrence Taylor was named MVP.  Can anyone else think of any great all-time QBs or RBs who were never named MVP even one time in their careers?

 
Yogibear said:
Jerry Rice and Randy Moss were never named MVP due to the fact that they were probably wide receivers.  Gale Sayers is another all-time great who never was named MVP, but LT did actually win the award back in 2006.

Who the heck is Lance Harbor?
Click to expand...
Greatest QB ever at West Canaan High.

 
Yogibear said:
Any REAL quarterbacks or running backs that were all-time greats who never were named MVP in their careers dating back to the original days of the NFL back in the 1920s?
Click to expand...
Gordon was basically throwing to himself in that record setting season

 
A few that came to mind but I had to check whether they won the award.

Warren Moon

Curtis Martin

Eric Dickerson

 
Yogibear said:
Jerry Rice and Randy Moss were never named MVP due to the fact that they were probably wide receivers.  Gale Sayers is another all-time great who never was named MVP, but LT did actually win the award back in 2006.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I was thinking Dickerson....no idea why I typed Tomlinson. 

 
Rice or Moon were the first two that came to mind for me.  Although I feel like Dan Fouts deserves a mention for having some worthy years, but losing out to a mediocre kicker.

 
The issue with Brees is that the Saints only had two seasons with 12 or more wins (both with 13 wins).  A QB won’t get much MVP consideration with 10 or 11 wins (or even fewer).

 
Some of you may be thinking, well, what about Don Hutson?  Well, he did win the MVP Award twice in a row in 1941 & 1942.  So, if you want to make a case for someone who IS NOT a QB or RB that has actually won the award, well, you might as well go ahead and cross him off your list.

 
Fwiw, I was talking to a friend the other day about the best player ever to be on the worst team for his career. 

While Barry Sanders came to mind, is it anyone other than Joe Thomas?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
-OZ- said:
Fwiw, I was talking to a friend the other day about the best player ever to be on the worst team for his career. 

While Barry Sanders came to mind, is it anyone other than Joe Thomas?
Click to expand...
I’d probably put **** Butkus on that list.

 
Yogibear said:
Some of you may be thinking, well, what about Don Hutson?  Well, he did win the MVP Award twice in a row in 1941 & 1942.  So, if you want to make a case for someone who IS NOT a QB or RB that has actually won the award, well, you might as well go ahead and cross him off your list.
Click to expand...
I did think of him and checked.

An interesting offshoot is will Hutson make the 100th anniversary team that should be released next year? The 4 WRs on the 75th anniversary team were Rice, Hutson, Alworth and Berry. I can see Moss knocking Berry out, but the proliferation of WR stats makes the discussion interesting.

As for the question at hand, Rice feels correct,

Do Gates/Gonzo knock out Ditka and Winslow?

 
The National Football League Most Valuable Player Award (NFL MVP) is an award given by various entities to the American football player who is considered the most valuable in the National Football League (NFL). Organizations which currently give an NFL MVP award or have in the past include the Associated Press (AP), the Newspaper Enterprise Association (NEA), Pro Football Writers of America (PFWA), and United Press International (UPI). The first award described as a most valuable player award was the Joe F. Carr Trophy, awarded by the NFL from 1938 to 1946. Today, the AP award is considered the de facto official NFL MVP award. Since the 2011 season, the NFL has held the annual NFL Honors ceremony to recognize the winner of the Associated Press MVP award.

When Don Hutson won the award back in 1941 & 1942, it was actually called the Joe F. Carr Award, which was named for the first-ever commissioner of the NFL.  Since 1957, the main MVP Award has been given by the Associated Press.  The MVP Award given by the Pro Football Writers of America actually goes back to 1975.  There's also been an MVP Award given out by the Sporting News, which started in 1954.  The first player to win that award was Lou Groza from the Cleveland Browns.  From 1970 to 1979, the Sporting News chose to select an MVP from each conference and returned to a single winner in 1980.  They've also been selecting an Offensive Player of the Year and Defensive Player of the Year since 2012, which may or may not have been whom the Associated Press picked for that award in that year since 2012.

In other words, Todd Gurley and Aaron Donald may have been named Offensive and Defensive Players of the Year, respectively, by the Associated Press.  But, that doesn't mean they were named by the Sporting News for those awards.  And I don't even have a subscription for the Sporting News.  I actually have a subscription to Sports Illustrated that, in 2021, would've been 30 years to the date when I started.  I'm just reading what it says on the Wikipedia page.

 
Yogibear said:
The National Football League Most Valuable Player Award (NFL MVP) is an award given by various entities to the American football player who is considered the most valuable in the National Football League (NFL). Organizations which currently give an NFL MVP award or have in the past include the Associated Press (AP), the Newspaper Enterprise Association (NEA), Pro Football Writers of America (PFWA), and United Press International (UPI). The first award described as a most valuable player award was the Joe F. Carr Trophy, awarded by the NFL from 1938 to 1946. Today, the AP award is considered the de facto official NFL MVP award. Since the 2011 season, the NFL has held the annual NFL Honors ceremony to recognize the winner of the Associated Press MVP award.

When Don Hutson won the award back in 1941 & 1942, it was actually called the Joe F. Carr Award, which was named for the first-ever commissioner of the NFL.  Since 1957, the main MVP Award has been given by the Associated Press.  The MVP Award given by the Pro Football Writers of America actually goes back to 1975.  There's also been an MVP Award given out by the Sporting News, which started in 1954.  The first player to win that award was Lou Groza from the Cleveland Browns.  From 1970 to 1979, the Sporting News chose to select an MVP from each conference and returned to a single winner in 1980.  They've also been selecting an Offensive Player of the Year and Defensive Player of the Year since 2012, which may or may not have been whom the Associated Press picked for that award in that year since 2012.

In other words, Todd Gurley and Aaron Donald may have been named Offensive and Defensive Players of the Year, respectively, by the Associated Press.  But, that doesn't mean they were named by the Sporting News for those awards.  And I don't even have a subscription for the Sporting News.  I actually have a subscription to Sports Illustrated that, in 2021, would've been 30 years to the date when I started.  I'm just reading what it says on the Wikipedia page.
Click to expand...
Is there a point to this ramble?

 
Yogibear said:
Jerry Rice and Randy Moss were never named MVP due to the fact that they were probably wide receivers.  Gale Sayers is another all-time great who never was named MVP, but LT did actually win the award back in 2006.

Who the heck is Lance Harbor?
Click to expand...
confirmed, they were in fact receivers

 
Anarchy99 said:
The issue with Brees is that the Saints only had two seasons with 12 or more wins (both with 13 wins).  A QB won’t get much MVP consideration with 10 or 11 wins (or even fewer).
Click to expand...
Brees should have easily won the award during their Super Bowl year.  That's a head scratcher.

Took a look at previous winners, and was surprised to see Brian Sipe won the NFL MVP in 1980.  Good for him.

 
Statorama said:
Brees should have easily won the award during their Super Bowl year.  That's a head scratcher.

Took a look at previous winners, and was surprised to see Brian Sipe won the NFL MVP in 1980.  Good for him.
Click to expand...
Here was the voting from that 2009 season . . .

Peyton Manning (39.5 votes) - 14-2 record, 4,500 passing yards, 33 TD, 16 INT, 68.8 percent, 571 attempts
Drew Brees  (7.5 votes) - 13-3 record, 4,388 passing yards, 34 TD, 11 INT, 70.6 percent, 514 attempts
Philip Rivers (2 votes) - 13-3 record, 4,252 passing yards, 28 TD, 9 INT, 65.2 percent, 486 attempts
Brett Favre (1 vote) - 12-4 record, 4,202 passing yards, 33 TD, 7 INT, 68.4 percent, 531 attempts

Manning was probably a better candidate than Brees was. Not sure Peyton merited five times as many votes as Brees did, but still probably a better selection than Brees (who has had several better seasons than that one). That was the year the Colts started 14-0, played their starters for a half against the Jets, and pretty much didn't care about losing their last two games.

 
Statorama said:
Nice write up, thanks for doing the research.

In the end, Brees wound up holding the best trophy that year  :thumbup:
Click to expand...
The only other year the team did well enough for Brees to win was 2011, but the Packers did better than the Saints did.

Aaron Rodgers (48 votes) - 15-1 record, 4,643 passing yards, 45 TD, 6 INT, 68.3 percent, 502 attempts
Drew Brees (2 votes) - 13-3 record, 5,476 passing yards, 36 TD, 18 INT, 71.2 percent, 657 attempts

Brees set records for passing yards and completion percentage that season, and even that wasn't enough.

 
Anarchy99 said:
The only other year the team did well enough for Brees to win was 2011, but the Packers did better than the Saints did.

Aaron Rodgers (48 votes) - 15-1 record, 4,643 passing yards, 45 TD, 6 INT, 68.3 percent, 502 attempts
Drew Brees (2 votes) - 13-3 record, 5,476 passing yards, 36 TD, 18 INT, 71.2 percent, 657 attempts

Brees set records for passing yards and completion percentage that season, and even that wasn't enough.
Click to expand...
I remember thinking that they might award it to him as they were coming off the Superbowl win and he had a record shattering season.

I was living in Wisconsin that year, and Rodgers earned that award.  He may not have had the lofty numbers, but his play that year was magnificent.

 
Why is it that the Bert Bell award (player of the year) doesn't get more attention?

It also goes to a QB most often but at least JJ Watt and Jerry Rice have won it.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Not really. What year should he have won?
Click to expand...
I know where you're going. And every year the argument could have been made - 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2017, at least - they were made, so I don't think I want to hash it out again years after the fact. It's just absurd that this QB has over the course of 12 seasons straight been more valuable to his team, which had zero real success for 40 years before he showed up, than any other and yet hasn't won it once. And I realize QBs on teams with losing records don't win it, etc., and Brees did win POTY in 2009, but there really hasn't been a more valuable player. My counterargument on Brady would be look at the records of the Pats teams when he was out. Maybe Rodgers is similar, and maybe the difference is that it's basically a press award and not a league award. The point above about the Bert Bell Award maybe being more significant rings true for me.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Unfortunately for Brees fans, winning is a large component of the MVP equation. It cuts both ways. If the Saints had a better defense and a better running game, they would likely have won more games but Brees’ totals would have been lower. 

Since coming to NO, he has 800 more passing attempts than anyone else (Eli) and 1000-1500 more attempts than the other old timers in the league (Rivers, TB12, Ben).  

Certianly those helped Brees compile some pretty impressive passing totals. Taken on a year by year basis, there weren’t years where he clearly should have won and based on the Saints lack of winning, he really hasn’t had many years where he was a top, top candidate in terms of voting. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I know where you're going. And every year the argument could have been made - 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2017, at least - they were made, so I don't think I want to hash it out again years after the fact. It's just absurd that this QB has over the course of 12 seasons straight been more valuable to his team, which had zero real success for 40 years before he showed up, than any other and yet hasn't won it once. And I realize QBs on teams with losing records don't win it, etc., and Brees did win POTY in 2009, but there really hasn't been a more valuable player. My counterargument on Brady would be look at the records of the Pats teams when he was out. Maybe Rodgers is similar, and maybe the difference is that it's basically a press award and not a league award. The point above about the Bert Bell Award maybe being more significant rings true for me.
Click to expand...
You can argue against Brady if you want (though we'd disagree) but Peyton was more valuable to the Colts than Brees to the saints.

 
-OZ- said:
You can argue against Brady if you want (though we'd disagree) but Peyton was more valuable to the Colts than Brees to the saints.
Click to expand...
I'd go with as valuable but not more valuable. It's similar. The Colts sample is thrown off by their insistence on going with Curtis Painter to dump the season Manning was hurt.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'd go with as valuable but not more valuable. It's similar. The Colts sample is thrown off by their insistence on going with Curtis Painter to dump the season Manning was hurt.
Click to expand...
I wonder if non saints fans would agree.

I'm not trying to diminish Brees, dude is a sure fire hall of famer, among the best QBs in an era of some great QBs. But I just don't think he's quite Peyton level.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Anarchy99
What Player That Has Never Received An MVP Vote Is Most Likely To Win MVP
2
Replies
53
Views
1K
Bracie Smathers
Bracie Smathers
Yogibear
Roger Craig, Tom Coughlin & Mike Shanahan named finalists for Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2024
Replies
11
Views
714
Hot Sauce Guy
Hot Sauce Guy
Yogibear
Randy Gradishar, Steve McMichael & Art Powell named Senior Finalists for Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2024
Replies
0
Views
387
Yogibear
Yogibear

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top