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RB Rashaad Penny, PHI (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bojang0301
- Start date
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Christine Michael 2.0?
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
In a contract league where I;m in the middle of a rebuild, I offered Penny, who you can keep 6 yrs plus a 2nd for Fournette with a 3 yr contract. The guy with Fournette is 0-5 and maybe it's me, but I thought he'd snap accept. Instead he said that the guy is the number 3 back on Seattle and wanted no part of him. So yeah, that's about his dynasty value right now.
Well, six years of #### is ####.
The extra contract years don’t entice me to pick up a player that I may never use.
At least we’ve seen a RB1 season from Fournette.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Russ is their most important player so if Penny can't protect and do other things right they aren't going to poay him until they think they can.
It's happened before, Christine Muchael.
They do still have CJ Prosie who was a 3rd round pick and hasn't played much.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I am guessing they are on similar contracts since both were high picks in rookie drafts. That is a horrible offer.
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Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I hate to say it but this doesn’t bode well for Penny. I could point to the success of other backs that had similar career starts but you’re talking at least two years of holding and up to 4 for success. Backs I can think of are LJ, Thomas Jones and Benson. LJ had a gift of a situation. Jones and Benson wallowed around the league for awhile ending up as free agents for a long enough period of time their original owners probably had long since given up on them. Painful for me to say and looking like a terrible call on my part. I think I would still use the same process in rating rookie RB’s but this is the nature of the beast sometimes. The Seattle FO should be released of their duties. There was obviously no foresight and no dedication to whatever they thought Penny was, either by a disconnect with the coaching staff or plain old hubris.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I wouldn’t suggest buying low is a summation of what I’m saying. If you are looking to though you are probably hoping Carroll and Schotty are long gone next year.
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I am assuming there is value to a contract, not just keeper status.
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
kutta
Footballguy
I’m right there with you. I had some hesitation initially based upon his college competition, but I trusted the Seattle brass to get this right. I would have taken him at 1.02 most likely, and ended up taking him at 1.04.
Not giving up yet, but pretty discouraged.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/10/10/pete-carroll-rashaad-penny-is-frustrated-and-thats-exactly-what-i-want/
Youre so ####### smart Pete... just always one step ahead of the rest of the NFL. I remember that great SB moment where you were down at the one and... oh, wait, nevermind.
Youre so ####### smart Pete... just always one step ahead of the rest of the NFL. I remember that great SB moment where you were down at the one and... oh, wait, nevermind.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Wooters isn't Eminence. I guess you're not as smart as you think you are, detective.
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Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Don't let them bring you down. Lot's of irrationally mean people on these boards. But you can't go around provoking people and expect them not to swing back. A lot of times, these guys are heavily invested in a certain player (Rashaad Penny, Royce Freeman) that they begin to get irrational.
In regards to Penny, I don't get it. I liked his talent but Seattle hasn't exactly had a great track record with Runningbacks, in fact, it's looked more like a revolving door. Chris Carson looks really, really good. Looking like a nice buy-low for dynasty owners. Not sure what to even do next year, but he can safely be dropped in redraft formats.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Its a bit of bad timing for Penny. Missed time during training camp....and Fluker/Sweezy weren't playing the first two weeks when he was getting chances and they have made a huge difference for the run game. Its the reason the hawks ran so well the last two weeks. It really depends on your league size, bench size, skill level but in 12 team league, 20 spots, you hold. Its only a matter of time before Carson gets injured again or Davis sucks/gets injured. Penny will get his chance this year. I wouldn't drop any of the rookie running backs as those are the types that win leagues.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
People crack me up dismissing players after 5 games. Mixon got fat last year too and started slow. If they had a talent like Carson around he may not have gotten out of the doghouse either. Penny may never amount to anything, but walking around like a peacock after 5 games is laughable. Now pardon me while I go look to buy Penny at heavily reduced prices while I still can.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I wouldn’t say that. Pete can say whatever he wants and we can conjecture whatever we want. To say Carson and Davis have played anything other than great would be a lie. I agree with everything you’re saying about Mixon. In fact, I was in denial that Penny was out of shape when it seems like he was/is and also affected by injury. I still have concerns about his usage early in his career. It increases the bust potential ten fold. The future is not written in stone though.
4th&inches
Footballguy
just traded him straight up for Coutee in my 3yr/ 3-player-max keeper league.
While I could have held him for a little longer, I needed the help at WR so I made the move.
Is it possible Penny has value this year? sure, but it simply seems he's an afterthought in Seattle.
While I could have held him for a little longer, I needed the help at WR so I made the move.
Is it possible Penny has value this year? sure, but it simply seems he's an afterthought in Seattle.
The Frankman
Footballguy
In Dynasty sure. He's GOT to get a shot next year in better shape and probably improved in pass pro.
In redraft??? Welcome to Dropsville, Penny. Population.... you.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
At least if he is overweight he has an excuse. Otherwise he is just sucking to this point.
The Frankman
Footballguy
If you haven't dropped him in redraft by now... I got nothing.
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
You lose all your leagues. Look at David Johnson his rookie year for example. Look at his first 10 weeks versus last 6. That won leagues. Ya, it might not happen with Penny....but with a first round talent on a run heavy team you are silly to drop.
The Frankman
Footballguy
He wasn't arguably 4th on his depth chart that year with a coach that apparently hates him. And bad at pass protection. And fat.
It's almost midseason and both backs ahead of him are running like gangbusters and good at pass protection, aka "Lyin Cheatin' Pete RBs". Are they both going to get hurt? Drop him in redraft and get a better rookie lotto ticket back that doesn't have as many hurdles.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
All I can say is I am not a scout but PFF was absolutely in love with him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4xLIZybeM
Zyphros
Footballguy
So we're completely ignoring the fact he was proven to be drafted in the 1st? He was drafted in the 1st, therefore he was a 1st round talent. Those things are directly correlated in that teams eyes. He is a 1st round talent because Seattle told the NFL he is... Don't get me wrong it was an absolutely terrible pick, but he is a 1st round talent. You can't just ignore facts like that. His profile is actually very similar to Prosise. Seems like they have a type.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
By this logic, Alvin Kamara is proven only a 3rd round talent, but Lawrence Maroney was a proven 1st round talent.
If you're on the clock in the first round, and there are no more players with first round talent left on your board, what do you do?
thehoch
Footballguy
I live in San Diego and I live down the street from where he played his college games. I've seen him in person and watched his entire career. He's a special special talent and I watched Marshall Faulk too. He is a total stud. I am baffled why he hasn't gotten out of the gates better. One thing about Penny is he never ever ever ever makes excuses......meaning I honestly believe he has been hampered by something but won't admit it. Once he gets an opportunity, and he is 100% he is going to be a lightning bolt on the field. He is super elusive and has serious wheels. He made college players look like JV team in high school. That's just my two cents. A lot of people are talking about him who never really watched him play in college.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Not sure where that blurb came from but I am always a little skeptical of people who don't know what a steep learning curve means.
Zyphros
Footballguy
Yes Kamara was a 3rd round talent. I can't even believe I have to spell it out for people. If they were drafted there, that's the talent that the NFL deemed them worthy at. Obviously no other team had that player ranked higher, otherwise they would of went higher. Kamara was a 3rd round talent, it's a fact at this point. Show me 1 ranking site that had him either as a 1st round grade or even a top4 RB in his own class. I'll wait.
That doesn't mean they can't outproduce their draft position or bust compared to where they were drafted. That's the issue people have with Penny right now, but he was proven to be a 1st round talent. Put the caveat next to his name if you want "well it was by Pete Carol who is a known idiot", I don't care.
Trade down because it's likely another team has a 1st round grade on someone still.
Well by your logic, there are exactly 32 first-round talents in the draft. Every single year, precisely 32. Not 31, not 33 -- 32.
Let that percolate a minute and see if you can see the flaw in the logic.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I don’t understand your logic. How does his statement translate to the way you interpreted it? Another team in the league could have 1st round grades on 40 guys while another could have 1st round grades on only 20.
In any case, assuming SEA isn’t completely dumbfounded by the draft process after all these years, they thought Penny had enough talent to be the best guy left on their board at that pick.
It’s also very possible that Penny’s talent just won’t translate at the NFL level. It’s not like this is some kind of rare event. There are enough 1st round busts every draft. Penny just might be one of those.
Zyphros
Footballguy
That's not what I said at all like Bronco Billy pointed out already. A team could have 1st round grades on any number of guys. Think it through, you'll understand eventually.
Tau837
Footballguy
This is not true.
- Any team could have had a first or second round grade on him but had other players in addition to Kamara with first/second rounds grades fall to their first and second round picks.
- Teams also may have had a first or second round grade on Kamara but prioritized other positions of need. For example, the Rams may have graded him as first or second round, but chosen to draft another position since they had Gurley.
- Your statement also makes no allowance for the strength of the draft class at a given position. The 2017 RB class was unusually strong. Being ranked 4th or 5th among a group including Fournette, McCaffrey, Cook, Mxon, and Hunt is much different than being ranked there in a weaker class. Strength of position in a draft obviously can push players lower than where their talent would normally dictate.
Here are a few sites:
- NFL.com graded him as a round 2 prospect and ranked him as their #5 RB.
- draftscout.com graded him as a round 2 prospect and ranked him as their #4 RB.
- teamspeedkills.com said: "He could be picked anywhere toward the end of round one or sometime in the second round."
- Walter Football graded him as a round 1-2 prospect and ranked him as their #4 RB and said: "Perhaps the highest Kamara could hope to go would be in the middle of Round 1... However, going in the top 20 seems too high for Kamara. Being selected late in the first round by one of the playoff teams is more feasible."
- PFF ranked him as their #5 RB.
Here's a tip: try being a bit less arrogant and condescending in your posts on the subject.
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kittenmittens
Footballguy
Maybe it's hard for us to understand because you're saying that Kamara is a 3rd round talent because he was drafted in the 3rd, but also that teams can have 1st round grades on any by number of guys.Zyphros said:
Couldn't the Saints have had a 1st round grade on Kamara?
You're also basically saying that whatever a team thought about a players talent pre draft is exactly correct. It's amazing that they miss on picks....
We must be misinterpreting what you are saying?
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
Drop in redraft. Hold in dynasty. And pray.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Not all players drafted in the first round posses the talent justified to be taken in the first round. This applies to all rounds. Further, "1st round talent" in one year does not equivocate to "1st round talent" in another year's class simply because they were drafted in the same round, like some sort of perfect world computer simulated vacuum of talent pool; being drafted in the first round is not some sort of justification to raise a player's talent perception to another player drafted in the same round (Barkley = Penny cos both are "1st round talents"). I'm not even getting into tiers which there is a huge dropoff in talent from the top5-10 picks and the back half of the early rounds in most draft classes.
Bottom line, 1st round talent is a phrase that signifies nearly nothing, but a cursory perception that at least one team (which might be dysfunctional, be a poor talent judge, or draft inferior talent based upon need) desired this player in the first round, justified or not. JaMarcus Russell says hi!
Bottom line, 1st round talent is a phrase that signifies nearly nothing, but a cursory perception that at least one team (which might be dysfunctional, be a poor talent judge, or draft inferior talent based upon need) desired this player in the first round, justified or not. JaMarcus Russell says hi!
thehoch
Footballguy
Bad competition? When Penny played in the Senior Bowl he smoked some of the best players in the country. He can't pass protect or catch passes? No that's just patently false and if it was true the Seahawks, would have not drafted him in the first round. Do you think you know more than their own scouting team who spend every hour of every day breaking film down? I don't think so, but you are entitled to your opinion.Wooters said:
SDSU ran with a fullback like a lot of other teams do......this is ridiculous.
He will not be a bust, I can guarantee you that. Tell you what, your post will not age well. I'll be back to remind you.
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
I don't know one person that thought this guy would be drafted in the 1st round. Guice was clearly the better player if taking a RB. The Bucs took a friggin kicker in the 2nd last year, so it's entirely possible that an NFL team can make moves that are dumb. Taking Penny in the 1st was a dumb pick and Seattle knows it already. Bust.
This guy fell to me @1.12 in our rookie draft. I figured he'd never be there so I didn't even research him but when he was there I was like zomg I have to take him. Picked him and then after the fact watched his highlights. Dude looks so unimpressive. Not seeing any powerful cuts, doesn't seem like his speed jumps off the screen even against lower tier div 1 players.
What a waste of a pick I made. Just the fact that a 1st rd pick can't get on the field ahead of Davis should be a huge red flag.
What a waste of a pick I made. Just the fact that a 1st rd pick can't get on the field ahead of Davis should be a huge red flag.
