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Should students be allowed to walk out of school to support pro gun rights?


KCitons

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12 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Not always but they've historically been the party that has been opposed to expanding gun control regulations.

I obviously agree on this. If republicans stopped opposing it, things would pass easily since most people want those things. The head scratcher for me though is when democrats could have passed these things they haven't. Even now they could easily get at least one or two changes.  

Why do you think they don't try and chip away at it?  Why is it that when even bipartisan legislation that is better than the current system is proposed do we see democrats oppose it? Is there a law that says you cant agree to x and continue to push for y? 

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4 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I obviously agree on this. If republicans stopped opposing it, things would pass easily since most people want those things. The head scratcher for me though is when democrats could have passed these things they haven't. Even now they could easily get at least one or two changes.  

Why do you think they don't try and chip away at it?  Why is it that when even bipartisan legislation that is better than the current system is proposed do we see democrats oppose it? Is there a law that says you cant agree to x and continue to push for y? 

At the end of the day it's because we haven't forced them to.  It's absurd how many people in this country want some form of reasonable gun control and nothing has been passed.  We need to hold our Representation to a greater standard of accountability.

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10 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I obviously agree on this. If republicans stopped opposing it, things would pass easily since most people want those things. The head scratcher for me though is when democrats could have passed these things they haven't. Even now they could easily get at least one or two changes.  

Why do you think they don't try and chip away at it?  Why is it that when even bipartisan legislation that is better than the current system is proposed do we see democrats oppose it? Is there a law that says you cant agree to x and continue to push for y? 

Because ideologues who are willing to distort the truth and pretend that any restriction is going to lead to taking away your guns poison the debate. 

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15 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I obviously agree on this. If republicans stopped opposing it, things would pass easily since most people want those things. The head scratcher for me though is when democrats could have passed these things they haven't. Even now they could easily get at least one or two changes.  

Why do you think they don't try and chip away at it?  Why is it that when even bipartisan legislation that is better than the current system is proposed do we see democrats oppose it? Is there a law that says you cant agree to x and continue to push for y? 

Huh? What legislature have you been watching? Dems agree to moderate changes to gun control laws all the time.  They are almost always rejected by the GOP en masse, item by item, even if the Dems attempt to compromise with a small group of moderate Republicans.  The clearest example of this recently is the Manchin-Toomey disaster. I honestly think the Dems could propose a bill saying you can't buy a gun if you've killed at least ten people with guns in the last month and most of the GOP would vote no.

Or is another version of "why didn't the Dems do this during the four months or so of 2009 that they had control of the WH and House and a veto-proof majority in the Senate?"

Edited by TobiasFunke
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Can I get a link to the proposed legislation being discussed here?  Are we talking about state proposals?  Those seem to be moving, at least enough to have the NRA panties in a bunch.  I know Florida just passed them.  I am unaware of any legislation that fits the description given by parasaurolophhus above.

Or a better question is, what are the 2-3 things that could easily be achieved if simply proposed?  Maybe I'm missing something :mellow: 

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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

Huh? What legislature have you been watching? Dems agree to moderate changes to gun control laws all the time.  They are almost always rejected by the GOP en masse, item by item, even if the Dems attempt to compromise with a small group of moderate Republicans.  The clearest example of this recently is the Manchin-Toomey disaster. I honestly think the Dems could propose a bill saying you can't buy a gun if you've killed at least ten people with guns in the last month and most of the GOP would vote no.

Or is another version of "why didn't the Dems do this during the four months or so of 2009 that they had control of the WH and House and a veto-proof majority in the Senate?"

Didnt the fix nics bill receive democrat opposition initially? 

What about when republicans proposed a 72 hour delay for people on the no fly list to be able to purchase? Democrats voted no because they wanted it to be an outright ban. So the R bill got shot down and then the D bill got shot down. IIRC the very same day there was another pair of bills like that going down along party lines. 

These are the only ones i know off the top of my head, but i am certain there are more examples. If i am wrong on that, i will concede the point.

I am not arguing that these are great pieces of legislation, but why not take what you can easily get? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Can I get a link to the proposed legislation being discussed here?  Are we talking about state proposals?  Those seem to be moving, at least enough to have the NRA panties in a bunch.  I know Florida just passed them.  I am unaware of any legislation that fits the description given by parasaurolophhus above.

Or a better question is, what are the 2-3 things that could easily be achieved if simply proposed?  Maybe I'm missing something :mellow: 

I am proposing a bill that states that no student should be allowed to walk out of school to support pro-gun rights. That should address the OP. 

(All other walk outs are OK though.) 

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2 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Didnt the fix nics bill receive democrat opposition initially? 

What about when republicans proposed a 72 hour delay for people on the no fly list to be able to purchase? Democrats voted no because they wanted it to be an outright ban. So the R bill got shot down and then the D bill got shot down. IIRC the very same day there was another pair of bills like that going down along party lines. 

These are the only ones i know off the top of my head, but i am certain there are more examples. If i am wrong on that, i will concede the point.

I am not arguing that these are great pieces of legislation, but why not take what you can easily get? 

 

 

It's my understanding that adding the Fix NICS language to the spending bill faced more GOP resistance than Dem resistance.

But yeah, sometimes Dems do vote no on empty proposals because they want substantive ones. Turning away Cornyn's impractical 72 hour waiting period before people on the terrorism watch list can buy a gun in order to force a vote on Feinsten's outright ban on those people buying guns is a good example.

There's an obvious reason for this, and I'm not sure I'd characterize it as rejecting "bipartisan legislation that is better than the current system."  I'd characterize it as rejecting "an attempt to get cheap political cover for cowardice in the face of the NRA." The Dems want real change, and you don't get real change by letting people lie to themselves and others by saying it's already happened.

 

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4 hours ago, The Commish said:

No....you're butchering the English language with this nonsense.  They can have the same color sure, but that does not make them the same thing.  Apples and paint will NEVER and can NEVER be the same thing.  Sharing a characteristic <> being the same thing.

Is there a characteristic that guns and alcohol share? or guns and cigarettes? or cigarettes and alcohol?

People might want to stop comparing the U.S. to Australia. They are both countries, but that doesn't make them the same in all other areas.

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2 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Is there a characteristic that guns and alcohol share? or guns and cigarettes? or cigarettes and alcohol?

People might want to stop comparing the U.S. to Australia. They are both countries, but that doesn't make them the same in all other areas.

Physical characteristic between  guns and alcohol? No.  Same with guns and cigs.  Cigs and alcohol are both consumable by the body, so they are probably the closest to similar out of the combos you propose.  Agree with specific country comparisons...generally speaking it's not a good idea to compare them at 10,000 foot level and expect to build any sort of foundation for a legit argument on that comparison.  I don't think it's bad to make comparisons if you take the time to account for the differences making them as similar as possible though.  Still not the best, but better than what we normally see.

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Just now, The Commish said:

Physical characteristic between  guns and alcohol? No.  Same with guns and cigs.  Cigs and alcohol are both consumable by the body, so they are probably the closest to similar out of the combos you propose.  Agree with specific country comparisons...generally speaking it's not a good idea to compare them at 10,000 foot level and expect to build any sort of foundation for a legit argument on that comparison.  I don't think it's bad to make comparisons if you take the time to account for the differences making them as similar as possible though.  Still not the best, but better than what we normally see.

:clap: 

I got one right!  Winning!

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5 hours ago, Matthias said:

Can you list for me the clauses of the Constitution and its Amendment which haven't been limited in any way? And you can't have the 3rd, because the 3rd is dumb. I'll sit here and wait.

There are even (recent) limitations on the 3rd.  It doesn't (even applied to the states) apply to municipal police ever, even heavily militarized police, and the use of the home as a command station against the will of the homeowner likely doesn't count as "quartering."

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

Is there a characteristic that guns and alcohol share? or guns and cigarettes? or cigarettes and alcohol?

People might want to stop comparing the U.S. to Australia. They are both countries, but that doesn't make them the same in all other areas.

Some people might be for gun control. Some people might be against it. That doesn't make them the same in all areas. Like, if a bunch of people want to have a rally in support of one but not the other.

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10 hours ago, Matthias said:

Can you list for me the clauses of the Constitution and its Amendment which haven't been limited in any way? And you can't have the 3rd, because the 3rd is dumb. I'll sit here and wait.

16th has only gotten broader.  Should have stuck to the bill of rights if you didn't want smart ### answers.

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3 hours ago, Matthias said:

Some people might be for gun control. Some people might be against it. That doesn't make them the same in all areas. Like, if a bunch of people want to have a rally in support of one but not the other.

???? Duh ????

Not sure what your point is with the bolded. 

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17 minutes ago, -fish- said:

16th has only gotten broader.  Should have stuck to the bill of rights if you didn't want smart ### answers.

Who said I didn't? And tbf, the 16th was only passed after SCOTUS limited the taxing power already possessed by the government.

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