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Should students be allowed to walk out of school to support pro gun rights?


KCitons

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15 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Are they taught about guns?

So, kids aren't drinking? 

No, at this point there are generally not guns in schools and we don't teach gun safety in schools.  So bringing guns into schools to teach gun safety would be like taking shots before your driver's ed class to teach responsible drinking (we don't do that either).   

If kids are drinking and getting caught, they're being punished under appropriate laws.  The gun regulations that are being proposed would also prohibit gun ownership by the same people that can't drink, making it a punishable offense under appropriate laws.   Laws are how society as a whole regulates behavior.   Society is the group of people we all live with.   Children are the small people we live with that would prefer not to be shot.

Being purposely obtuse is never going to help you make your fictional narrative become true.

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10 minutes ago, -fish- said:

No, at this point there are generally not guns in schools and we don't teach gun safety in schools.  So bringing guns into schools to teach gun safety would be like taking shots before your driver's ed class to teach responsible drinking (we don't do that either).   

Where do you get the idea that guns need to be in schools to teach gun safety?  We somehow manage to teach sex ed without live performers in the front of the room...

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10 minutes ago, -fish- said:

No, at this point there are generally not guns in schools and we don't teach gun safety in schools.  So bringing guns into schools to teach gun safety would be like taking shots before your driver's ed class to teach responsible drinking (we don't do that either).   

If kids are drinking and getting caught, they're being punished under appropriate laws.  The gun regulations that are being proposed would also prohibit gun ownership by the same people that can't drink, making it a punishable offense under appropriate laws.   Laws are how society as a whole regulates behavior.   Society is the group of people we all live with.   Children are the small people we live with that would prefer not to be shot.

Being purposely obtuse is never going to help you make your fictional narrative become true.

But there is alcohol in schools? Was there a point where people were having keggers in the science lab?

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9 minutes ago, -fish- said:

No, at this point there are generally not guns in schools and we don't teach gun safety in schools.  So bringing guns into schools to teach gun safety would be like taking shots before your driver's ed class to teach responsible drinking (we don't do that either).   

If kids are drinking and getting caught, they're being punished under appropriate laws.  The gun regulations that are being proposed would also prohibit gun ownership by the same people that can't drink, making it a punishable offense under appropriate laws.   Laws are how society as a whole regulates behavior.   Society is the group of people we all live with.   Children are the small people we live with that would prefer not to be shot.

Being purposely obtuse is never going to help you make your fictional narrative become true.

I wonder what changed 

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the good news is that even four year olds eventually grow up and stop asking why in response to everything to try and avoid something and realize why reasonable things are reasonble looks like america might finally be turning five take that to the bank brohans 

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1 minute ago, KCitons said:

But there is alcohol in schools? Was there a point where people were having keggers in the science lab?

Do you have a point other than that you believe banning alcohol is the same as banning guns?   You want to bring guns into schools now to teach gun safety.  If guns are the same as alcohol, which you continually claim, then you must also want to bring alcohol into school to teach responsible drinking.   Or are they not the same?

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17 minutes ago, -fish- said:

No, at this point there are generally not guns in schools and we don't teach gun safety in schools.  So bringing guns into schools to teach gun safety would be like taking shots before your driver's ed class to teach responsible drinking (we don't do that either).   

If kids are drinking and getting caught, they're being punished under appropriate laws.  The gun regulations that are being proposed would also prohibit gun ownership by the same people that can't drink, making it a punishable offense under appropriate laws.   Laws are how society as a whole regulates behavior.   Society is the group of people we all live with.   Children are the small people we live with that would prefer not to be shot.

Being purposely obtuse is never going to help you make your fictional narrative become true.

You don't need to bring guns to schools to teach gun safety

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6 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Do you have a point other than that you believe banning alcohol is the same as banning guns?   You want to bring guns into schools now to teach gun safety.  If guns are the same as alcohol, which you continually claim, then you must also want to bring alcohol into school to teach responsible drinking.   Or are they not the same?

When did I say I wanted to bring guns into school. Do we not teach alcohol awareness without bringing alcohol into schools?

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3 minutes ago, -fish- said:

seems like if there aren't guns in the school, the school doesn't really need to teach gun safety then.

Amazing. Because we don't care if a kid is thinking about shooting up a mall or a church. 

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8 minutes ago, -fish- said:

 

10 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Amazing. Because we don't care if a kid is thinking about shooting up a mall or a church. 

How does teaching gun safety prevent that?  

 

The Parkland shooting ended when the shooter's gun jammed (probably because he was using it to break windows).  If he had better training, wouldn't he have just killed more kids?

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:
1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Do you think I am talking about you?  :oldunsure:

My "true colors" were present in my very first post here and we have very different standards for "growing" if you think discussion here is going anywhere but down the pooper.

You did quote me as well. Just wanted to cover all bases

I do that with just about everyone for context since the quote feature sucks in the new boards :shrug: 

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11 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Sorry. I thought you were smarter than that. 

I'll converse with someone else.

It's a real bummer you are going this route.  I asked you a similar question and you checked out.  I'd like to know what lessons are being taught in gun courses that will decrease gun violence.

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9 minutes ago, KCitons said:
21 minutes ago, -fish- said:

How does teaching gun safety prevent that?  

Sorry. I thought you were smarter than that. 

I'll converse with someone else.

 

2 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:
27 minutes ago, -fish- said:

seems like if there aren't guns in the school, the school doesn't really need to teach gun safety then.

?

Ah #### it, you have all the answers, no sense even responding to you anymore right?

brohans the above two comments make me laugh because fish was obviously making an intentionally obtuse false equivalency like has been the overly repetitive case by a few posters in particular in this thread trying to link anti gun protests and booze and other such totally disconnected issues and after just a few instances of having it thrown back you in like fashion you resort to tacitly calling someone dumb and beneath you and saying you wont respond anymore brohans honestly when a guy gets in your head that bad thats what most people would call getin owned take that to the bank 

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

Sadly, we probably agree on more than you realize, but it doesn't seem like you're here for genuine conversation.

Sure I am. People don't want to have a genuine conversation. They just want to label and call people names. It's not very productive. 

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4 minutes ago, Dedfin said:

It's a real bummer you are going this route.  I asked you a similar question and you checked out.  I'd like to know what lessons are being taught in gun courses that will decrease gun violence.

The same lessons that we taught about drunk driving. 

Maybe you can tell me why we had a bigger problem with drunk driving, and people point to education and awareness as a method used to lower the number of deaths, but when I suggest that we have more education and awareness on gun violence or perhaps things that lead to gun violence, why is that a ridiculous suggestion?

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3 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Sure I am. People don't want to have a genuine conversation. They just want to label and call people names. It's not very productive. 

I have a sneaking suspicion that we have very different definitions of "genuine conversation"

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15 minutes ago, SWC said:

 

brohans the above two comments make me laugh because fish was obviously making an intentionally obtuse false equivalency like has been the overly repetitive case by a few posters in particular in this thread trying to link anti gun protests and booze and other such totally disconnected issues and after just a few instances of having it thrown back you in like fashion you resort to tacitly calling someone dumb and beneath you and saying you wont respond anymore brohans honestly when a guy gets in your head that bad thats what most people would call getin owned take that to the bank 

If someone thinks that the youth of our country being educated on gun safety is worthless because "there aren't guns in schools" then I have nothing to say to them anymore on that topic.

Deposit that in the your alias has been worn out for quite awhile bank

Edited by Cowboysfan8
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2 hours ago, -fish- said:

you have literally tried this guns=alcohol analogy at least half a dozen times.  you've been shown every time by different posters why it is an inapt analogy, yet you keep asserting it.   you also keep claiming that someone is trying to ban guns, and try to draw an analogy to cars or alcohol from that false narrative.  

you also claim that there are no societal benefits of alcohol, yet studies to continue to show that moderate drinking promotes longer life.  on the flip side, owning a gun makes you more likely to be injured or killed by a gun.   your opinion regarding alcohol seems to make you unable to accept basic facts about gun control, and your inability to understand the flaws in your argument has resulted in this and other pointless arguments.   you started this thread with a false premise, and you continue to construct arguments based on alternate false premises.  

maybe it's time to try something else.   

Great posting.  not sure why anyone bites on this terrible fishing trip.

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7 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

When I was a kid we had school trainings and public service announcements to avoid handling blasting caps.  They warnings were so ubiquitous I thought those things were everywhere, though I never saw one. Does anybody else remember those PSA's?

I had a few cap guns.  Does that count?

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my favorite were snakes you would light them and they would turn in to a little snake so basically they did what they said they would do and i respect that in a novelty firework product take that to the bank brohans 

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15 hours ago, KCitons said:

OK, I'll give you a chance to change my opinion. 

Does alcohol lead to deaths?

Do guns lead to deaths?

Start from there and convince me otherwise.

Yes and so do a long list of other things in the world that don't have anything else in common other than that.

Guns were created to kill.  Alcohol was not.

You talk about banning alcohol but anyone can easily make it on their own so the ban is not effective as it's already been proven.  Very few people can easily make a gun but the majority of people don't want to ban them anyway so I don't know why you keep making this argument.  So far you've found one person who admits his opinion is the extreme and you use it to back up your opinion for some reason.

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Just so everyone is up to speed, I thought I would post the exchange from another thread that was the inspiration for this one.

Tim posted. 

Quote

Also my daughter told me that during the protest gathering three students, all boys, revealed Trump shirts and attempted to loudly heckle the speakers and interrupt them, before being taken away. 

I responded.

Quote

So not all protest is equal?

Tim replied.

Quote

The students who organized today’s protest did it in advance with the permission of the school. It was orderly and well planned. The Trump supporters deliberately attempted to disrupt it. So no, I don’t consider that equal. 

Within that same time frame there was this post by another poster.

Quote

Heard from a friend that his daughter was prevented from protesting by the administration, along with other seniors.  They were prevented from going outside during the protest time, and their plan then changed to doing it on their own time during lunch.  The administration prevented the students from going outside, which is normally something any student can do at lunch, specifically to prevent them from protesting.

Pretty ridiculous.  I'll be curious to see if anyone makes enough of a stink about it to make the news.

And a response from a different poster in regards to the above. 

Quote

F that school.

 

In my opinion people here are want to defend only one sides right to protest. 

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4 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

You seem to take things very personally.

I disagree with many of your positions, but I don't "hate" you.  

You must be new here. Take a look around and let me know what you come up with. 

BTW, I don't hate anyone here either. I don't know them well enough to make that decision.

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3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Yes and so do a long list of other things in the world that don't have anything else in common other than that.

Guns were created to kill.  Alcohol was not.

You talk about banning alcohol but anyone can easily make it on their own so the ban is not effective as it's already been proven.  Very few people can easily make a gun but the majority of people don't want to ban them anyway so I don't know why you keep making this argument.  So far you've found one person who admits his opinion is the extreme and you use it to back up your opinion for some reason.

Wrong. You could make the argument that bows and arrows were created to kill as well. And many knives. 

The guns I own were not created to kill humans. I bought them for hunting.  This is the problem that people have with the gun debate. They see a guns only purpose as killing people. Yet, with all the guns in this country, only a very small percentage are actually used for that purpose. And, it is becoming easier for people to build a gun at home. Technology is advancing. Which is why we will never be able to stop someone hell bent on using a gun to kill someone. Actually, there are two people that fully admit they want to ban all guns. I'm sure there are more, they just don't want to take that stand. There are also people in the general public that want to ban guns, so to say that only a few people stand for that argument is ridiculous. 

Do I want or believe in an alcohol ban? No. I think it highlights the ridiculous notion that we can ban guns any more than we can ban alcohol. Every comment and argument used for reasons why we can ban guns can be applied to alcohol. Alcohol leads to deaths of innocent people. It leads to deaths when people misuse it, it enhances depression that can lead to suicide. But, we want to say that these things are getting better. Give it a few decades and we will have smart cars to fix the problem. We say that education and awareness are enough to solve the alcohol problem. But the same can't possibly work for our gun problem. Yet, we won't even try. The reasons people commit these mass shootings is because they have a problem. Raise the age to buy a gun and all you do is delay the problem. The average age of a shooter will change from 18 to 22. The number of people dead will still be the same. 

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