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tips on long distance job hunt (1 Viewer)

moleculo

moleculo

Footballguy
So I think I'm about to get laid off.  I am the design engineering manager for a consumer products manufacturer who recently relocated all design to global HQ in Germany.  My team and I were spared layoffs because of the importance of a project we are currently working on, but recent events make me think this project cannot be viable (i.e. Toys R Us was our 5th largest customer, we import Chinese steel, and the layoffs have cut too deep).

Que sera sera.  #### happens,  This will be the third time this has happened to me in my career, where the company decided to move engineering somewhere else and lay off everyone at my facility - once to China, once to NJ, and now Germany.  Such is the nature of consumer products.

Anyways, my wife and I have grown tired of the bible belt of the south.  We are at a point in our lives where a long-distance move is possible.  My kids aren't yet in middle school, so moving won't be all that traumatic to them, and we have no other family in our area - not within a 4 hour drive, anyways and we rarely see them anyways.  My wife is a real estate agent - she could easily find a new agency out there and keep working.  It sucks that she is just starting to build up her referral network, but she could quickly re-build...she is much better at networking than I am.

I was born and raised in Wyoming.  There are no jobs for what I want to do in my home town, but there are along the front range of Colorado.  That's a place where we would love to move to (apparently along with everyone else).  I do have friends in the area, but none in my line of work.

I'm looking for tips on finding a job remotely.  I've tried this before with no success.  Monster and other job boards seem like a waste of time(1) why hire long distance when you can find someone locally? (2) who wants to pay relocation expenses? (3) It's all about who you know and networking - I have no professional network in the area.

anyone have any advice on how to make this work?

Also, if anyone has any leads on consumer products companies in the area, please hit me up!

TIA, will answer yours.

 
Do your own research and identify companies in that area that would seem a fit for you. Don’t worry if they have a present opening that would fit you, focus on the types of companies that would employ someone of your background.

Once you have this list, go on LinkedIn and look to identify folks that would hire for someone like you. You mentioned you are a Manager so look to identify Directors and VPs. I would also look to find someone in Talent Acquisition. Send them a message on LinkedIn explaining your situation...You believe you will be laid off at some point, your family wants to relo to CO and you wanted to just connect in case a suitable role were to ever open up.

 
Can you follow your current job to Germany?  They have good, English speaking schools for your kids, although your wife would probably need to find a new line of work or start completely over as far as certifications, although she might be able to find a niche by specializing in working with ex-pats moving to Germany.

 
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JuniorGong said:
Do your own research and identify companies in that area that would seem a fit for you. Don’t worry if they have a present opening that would fit you, focus on the types of companies that would employ someone of your background.

Once you have this list, go on LinkedIn and look to identify folks that would hire for someone like you. You mentioned you are a Manager so look to identify Directors and VPs. I would also look to find someone in Talent Acquisition. Send them a message on LinkedIn explaining your situation...You believe you will be laid off at some point, your family wants to relo to CO and you wanted to just connect in case a suitable role were to ever open up.
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good stuff.  This seems like the way to go.

 
RC94 said:
Can you follow your current job to Germany?  They have good, English speaking schools for your kids, although your wife would probably need to find a new line of work or start completely over as far as certifications, although she might be able to find a niche by specializing in working with ex-pats moving to Germany.
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doubtful but I would certainly be open to that.  doubt they would want to pay me as an expat but that's probably something I would consider.

 
Another idea is to consider a slight change in your line of work.  Instead of working directly for a consumer products company, look into getting a job with a consulting company that works with consumer products clients.  There are consulting companies that would value your experience, and you might even be able to get a nice raise (although that's pure conjecture on my part since I don't know what you make or what they would pay).  One sacrifice with that, however, is that you would most likely have to travel a decent amount for work.

 
RC94 said:
Can you follow your current job to Germany?  They have good, English speaking schools for your kids, although your wife would probably need to find a new line of work or start completely over as far as certifications, although she might be able to find a niche by specializing in working with ex-pats moving to Germany.
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My thought as well, if you like the company/work.

 
Detroit (and Western MI) has a ton of manufacturing/ engineering jobs.  Most are automotive based but some others mixed in (cabinetry, someone contacted me about home goods type stuff once)

if you’ve got any type of plastic or metal forming background there are plenty of opportunities 

i have contacts for tons of recruiters I could send you if you’re interested, just PM me.

 
Once you decide where you want to go and start applying, make it very clear that you ARE relocating to THAT area. Companies don’t want to waste time with someone who MAY be relocating to their city. Also, if there’s any way you can pay your own way out for the first interview, that would be a big plus. Saying something like - we are heading out that way next week to do some house shopping and I’ll be in the area. I’d love to stop by and meet you - could go a long way in showing them you are serious about moving and you aren’t going to be a PIA.

Of course, you want them to show you some commitment too, but IMO, that comes with the offer.

 
Dan Lambskin said:
Detroit (and Western MI) has a ton of manufacturing/ engineering jobs.  Most are automotive based but some others mixed in (cabinetry, someone contacted me about home goods type stuff once)

if you’ve got any type of plastic or metal forming background there are plenty of opportunities 

i have contacts for tons of recruiters I could send you if you’re interested, just PM me.
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Sorry, but Michigan isn't on my radar. I have a network i can exercise here in Charlotte, this is about a targeted move to a specific region. 

 
I would recommend trying to find recruiters in that industry on LinkedIn, talk to them, and if need be fly out to meet with potential employers.

 
Slapdash said:
I would recommend trying to find recruiters in that industry on LinkedIn, talk to them, and if need be fly out to meet with potential employers.
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I'm in the recruiting industry and would disagree. Going with a recruiter means that the company is going to pay a fee (typically 20-25% of his base) to the recruiter and also have to shell out for relocation. It would put the OP at a disadvantage in terms of getting hired giving that he is at a Manager level. A company could be open to paying fees and relo for more senior level roles but for a Manager level role it could potentially box him out of roles that he otherwise could have been in play on if he doesn't attach himself to any recruiter.

 
Are you getting severance?   Too risky to just move to a place you like and then start the job hunt?  Maybe rent for 6 months to give you some time to do some house hunting.   Sounds like a royal PITA no matter how you do it.

 
NutterButter said:
Are you getting severance?   Too risky to just move to a place you like and then start the job hunt?  Maybe rent for 6 months to give you some time to do some house hunting.   Sounds like a royal PITA no matter how you do it.
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Not layed off yet, but when it happens, I would guess it's on the order of 4 weeks severance, which isn't a lot. 

Moving out there independant of work... I dunno. That's a tough one, as my wife would be giving up her work too.  It would be better to keep her income stream active as long as possible. 

 
moleculo said:
Not layed off yet, but when it happens, I would guess it's on the order of 4 weeks severance, which isn't a lot. 

Moving out there independant of work... I dunno. That's a tough one, as my wife would be giving up her work too.  It would be better to keep her income stream active as long as possible. 
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Yeah, that's not a lot.   If you got 3 months, I'd consider it. 

 
JuniorGong said:
I'm in the recruiting industry and would disagree. Going with a recruiter means that the company is going to pay a fee (typically 20-25% of his base) to the recruiter and also have to shell out for relocation. It would put the OP at a disadvantage in terms of getting hired giving that he is at a Manager level. A company could be open to paying fees and relo for more senior level roles but for a Manager level role it could potentially box him out of roles that he otherwise could have been in play on if he doesn't attach himself to any recruiter.
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How to get in front of hiring managers without a recruiter? 

 
JuniorGong said:
I'm in the recruiting industry and would disagree. Going with a recruiter means that the company is going to pay a fee (typically 20-25% of his base) to the recruiter and also have to shell out for relocation. It would put the OP at a disadvantage in terms of getting hired giving that he is at a Manager level. A company could be open to paying fees and relo for more senior level roles but for a Manager level role it could potentially box him out of roles that he otherwise could have been in play on if he doesn't attach himself to any recruiter.
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So what exactly is the point of a recruiter then? 

 
JuniorGong said:
I'm in the recruiting industry and would disagree. Going with a recruiter means that the company is going to pay a fee (typically 20-25% of his base) to the recruiter and also have to shell out for relocation. It would put the OP at a disadvantage in terms of getting hired giving that he is at a Manager level. A company could be open to paying fees and relo for more senior level roles but for a Manager level role it could potentially box him out of roles that he otherwise could have been in play on if he doesn't attach himself to any recruiter.
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Why are you assuming that those companies aren't already engaged with recruiters to fill their roles? 

 
RUSF18 said:
Why are you assuming that those companies aren't already engaged with recruiters to fill their roles? 
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In the NYC world, companies are filling manager/director roles through recruiters.

I've posted jobs at 40K and had 250 applicants. Can't imagine what a position paying double gets hit with.

 
Your resume doesn't need your full address.  Put your name and city you're applying to and send our your resume in that area.

No one looks at area codes on phone numbers like they use to.

HTH.

 
RUSF18 said:
Why are you assuming that those companies aren't already engaged with recruiters to fill their roles? 
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Who said I’m assuming they aren’t? Do you understand how recruiters work? A company is only paying them if they fill the role so they could have 10 companies engaged but every time they will be thrilled to fill a role with someone not attached to a recruiter. 

 
Having done this several times, my experience is that you need to have a compelling narrative explaining why you are moving to that specific area. Employers will want to have comfort that once you move, you’ll be sticking around for a while. 

 
thecatch said:
Having done this several times, my experience is that you need to have a compelling narrative explaining why you are moving to that specific area. Employers will want to have comfort that once you move, you’ll be sticking around for a while. 
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Meh, I'm applying to out of state jobs right now & half the companies out there still give the "Call us when you live here" bs. Mother ####er, I said I will move once I have a job.

 
JuniorGong said:
I'm in the recruiting industry and would disagree. Going with a recruiter means that the company is going to pay a fee (typically 20-25% of his base) to the recruiter and also have to shell out for relocation. It would put the OP at a disadvantage in terms of getting hired giving that he is at a Manager level. A company could be open to paying fees and relo for more senior level roles but for a Manager level role it could potentially box him out of roles that he otherwise could have been in play on if he doesn't attach himself to any recruiter.
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Maybe it is industry dependent or maybe the people I know who have done this just got lucky.  Granted, they weren't looking for relocation expenses. 

 
Slapdash said:
Maybe it is industry dependent or maybe the people I know who have done this just got lucky.  Granted, they weren't looking for relocation expenses. 
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I’m not saying it can’t happen although we are talking two separate things since I’m advocating relo for the OP. My advice is to play the percentages and IMO if the OP follows the advice I gave in my first post he should be in good shape. 

A good recruiter can be a great resource for clients and candidates, don’t get me wrong. In the OP’s situation, if he commits to investing the time to his search I think his best bet is to go it alone. Heck, I’d even be willing to call on his behalf to a few openings and provide his resume as a free referral. I’ve done this for friends in the past to good success.

 
JuniorGong said:
Who said I’m assuming they aren’t? Do you understand how recruiters work? A company is only paying them if they fill the role so they could have 10 companies engaged but every time they will be thrilled to fill a role with someone not attached to a recruiter. 
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Yes, I know how recruiters work. I have one negotiating for me right now. For a job where the recruiter put me in touch with the Managing Director trying to fill out a new team, and where I met with the guy twice to discuss exactly what my role on his team will be (if I accept the final offer) two weeks before the official posting went up on the company's website.

Your premise was that the OP would be at a disadvantage by going through a recruiter. Despite his admission that he has virtually no idea where to start, who to speak to, and which companies 2000 miles away may be hiring. You think it is a better idea for him to shoot his shot virtually blindfolded all so he can potentially negotiate himself a better salary because the company saved $20K (or whatever) on recruitment fees...despite the < 1% chance he finds a way to thread that needle given all those hurdles listed and gets himself face to face with the right person.  

A company that is hypothetically engaging 10 recruiters to bring them qualified candidates isn't going to waste time parsing through random resume submissions or burning HR time networking online with random people looking for jobs from across the country. 

 
JuniorGong said:
I’m not saying it can’t happen although we are talking two separate things since I’m advocating relo for the OP. My advice is to play the percentages and IMO if the OP follows the advice I gave in my first post he should be in good shape. 

A good recruiter can be a great resource for clients and candidates, don’t get me wrong. In the OP’s situation, if he commits to investing the time to his search I think his best bet is to go it alone. Heck, I’d even be willing to call on his behalf to a few openings and provide his resume as a free referral. I’ve done this for friends in the past to good success.
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This is such shockingly bad advice that my only conclusion is that somewhere along the lines you became confused about how percentages work. 

 
JuniorGong said:
I’m not saying it can’t happen although we are talking two separate things since I’m advocating relo for the OP. My advice is to play the percentages and IMO if the OP follows the advice I gave in my first post he should be in good shape. 

A good recruiter can be a great resource for clients and candidates, don’t get me wrong. In the OP’s situation, if he commits to investing the time to his search I think his best bet is to go it alone. Heck, I’d even be willing to call on his behalf to a few openings and provide his resume as a free referral. I’ve done this for friends in the past to good success.
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I'm not there yet. 

I do like the idea of finding companies in my field and figuring out how to network my way in.  After posting that, I realized that I had a former co-worker who made the move years ago.  I hit him up on linkedin, and he is in the same boat (thinks he's going to get layed off), so he's doing the same thing.  He sent me a list of 10 or so companies in the area he's working, so that was a great head start.

I've resolved I'm going to spend about an hour  every day digging around and figuring out who the companies and the key players are.  I do believe this is the way to go.  Once I do that, and have made my way into who I can, I'll use recruiters.  I have a headhunter here that I use that can put me in touch with his colleagues in the area if time becomes short.  No reason I can't do both.

 
RUSF18 said:
Yes, I know how recruiters work. I have one negotiating for me right now. For a job where the recruiter put me in touch with the Managing Director trying to fill out a new team, and where I met with the guy twice to discuss exactly what my role on his team will be (if I accept the final offer) two weeks before the official posting went up on the company's website.

Your premise was that the OP would be at a disadvantage by going through a recruiter. Despite his admission that he has virtually no idea where to start, who to speak to, and which companies 2000 miles away may be hiring. You think it is a better idea for him to shoot his shot virtually blindfolded all so he can potentially negotiate himself a better salary because the company saved $20K (or whatever) on recruitment fees...despite the < 1% chance he finds a way to thread that needle given all those hurdles listed and gets himself face to face with the right person.  

A company that is hypothetically engaging 10 recruiters to bring them qualified candidates isn't going to waste time parsing through random resume submissions or burning HR time networking online with random people looking for jobs from across the country. 
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I’ve been in the industry for 20 years but I’m sure you a much better handle than me on how the industry works. I provided in my first post how the OP should go about identifying companies and opportunities in CO. He is looking within a specific industry for a specific role in a specific location, identifying what companieswould be a fit should take him no more than a couple of hours. Perhaps another hour or two identifying the people he should reach out to in each of those companies. If he doesn’t want to put in the work, he can certainly reach out to a recruiter. 

A recruiter is a free service for any job seeker but they work on contingent for employers. They are going to focus their time filling the openings they have with clients not identifying roles for candidates that are hoping to relocate. 

You also are dead wrong that a company engaged with multiple recruiters wouldn’t also continue to look on their own. Companies want to hire the best candidate period and often a companies internal recruiters want to prove they can identify talent just like contingent recruiters. Any company that shuts off any avenue for identifying the best candidate is doing themselves a disservice.

Best of luck to you on your opportunity, I hope it works out for you.

 
all I know is that when I was hiring last July or so, we posted the opening on linkedin and had a recruiter providing resumes. The recruiter had a much better hit rate, but the best resumes came from linkedin or personal references.

I agree that hiring managers would prefer to not use recruiters if they can avoid.  However, recruiters do have a roll - not every company will post every job because the shear quantity of hits you might get can be overwhelming.

I can handle companies that I can find and where I can get a dialogue established.  That's not the entire set of companies out there though - that's where recruiters can be useful.

 
moleculo said:
all I know is that when I was hiring last July or so, we posted the opening on linkedin and had a recruiter providing resumes. The recruiter had a much better hit rate, but the best resumes came from linkedin or personal references.

I agree that hiring managers would prefer to not use recruiters if they can avoid.  However, recruiters do have a roll - not every company will post every job because the shear quantity of hits you might get can be overwhelming.

I can handle companies that I can find and where I can get a dialogue established.  That's not the entire set of companies out there though - that's where recruiters can be useful.
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External recruiters are good for smaller companies that don't have as big of a network as larger companies.  Most big companies today hire internal recruiters.  Look them up on LinkedIn and start a conversation with them.  That's how I got my recent job.

With companies usually having 10+ good candidates for every opening, you're at a big disadvantage using a recruiter vs candidates who don't.

Find out where you want to live, and network like crazy there.  I don't think you have to move there first.  Just show the interest in moving there and have a good answer to the question "why do you want to move here?".  If you get a lot of companies who say that they will hire only local candidates (I ran into this often), then you can tell them that you plan on moving there.

Good luck!

 
JuniorGong said:
I’m not saying it can’t happen although we are talking two separate things since I’m advocating relo for the OP. My advice is to play the percentages and IMO if the OP follows the advice I gave in my first post he should be in good shape. 

A good recruiter can be a great resource for clients and candidates, don’t get me wrong. In the OP’s situation, if he commits to investing the time to his search I think his best bet is to go it alone. Heck, I’d even be willing to call on his behalf to a few openings and provide his resume as a free referral. I’ve done this for friends in the past to good success.
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Is he going to have to drop a like on all of your posts?  No such thing as a free lunch.

 
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