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Dynasty: Dallas Goedert, TE Philadelphia Eagles


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3 minutes ago, need2know said:

Loved the pick.  He was not only the best te on the board when the eagles picked but he was the best receiver.  Another weapon for Wentz.

Oh he can also block and seems to be a good guy as well.  

I've heard coming out of college he's ahead of where Ertz was in terms of blocking.  But I think he still needs some improvement. 

More NFL than FFL value.  4-5 TDs  possible but will struggle for targets given the other receiving weapons at Wentz's disposal.

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Since week 6 of last year Goedert has averaged. 7 targets a game putting up 5-55-.43 That prorates out to 80-880-7 in 16 games and would have made him TE5 last year in ppr. During that

I'm rewatching the game and there's one thing I noticed right now that gave me pause on Goedert. Philly just got Wentz sacked 8 times and they lost the game. On the Ertz TD they had Goedert go in moti

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::d

2 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

The Eagles just lost 2 TEs who each saw significant playing time leaving them with only Ertz and Richard Rodgers on the roster and you don't see how TE was a need?  It was one of, if not the biggest, need of the draft.  Sorry if you don't agree, its a fact.  And trading a 5th to get ahead of 2 other TE needy teams was a good move to get the guy they wanted.

I think Goedert will see a good deal of action his rookie year.  I don't think he'll have much fantasy relevance, but a significant contributor to their offense. 

Don't bother talking to that guy.  He still thinks dak is better than Wentz and Dallas is going to the Superbowl next year

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For perspective, Trey Burton finished 2017 as TE 26 in FBG standard scoring with 248/5 in Peterson's second season.  That was up from TE 39 in '16 with 327/1.  Goedert is a far better TE prospect then Burton was coming out of college.

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4 hours ago, Football Jones said:

JetMaxx,

Taking Goedert there was far from shrewd, IMO. 

Ertz won't be a FA until 2022. If the idea is to have two top TEs, Goedert will also hit FA in 2022. You going to pay both TEs top money if Goedert pans out?

I don't get either the short-term strategy or the long term dynamics of taking a TE in the 2nd in Philly's situation. Not to mention the implications of taking a long term backup that high in today's NFL with the salary cap. You might do that for a QB, but not a TE.

You realize they literally did the exact same thing when they drafted Ertz in the 2nd, right?  Celek newly on his 2nd contract, recently with 900 and 800 yard seasons, etc.  Investing 2nd round capital in a backup TE at this stage is nothing new.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

What does Football Jones think of the Eagles taking Goedert? I'm very curious to hear his view on it.

his thought process is simple..

if(decision.Team == "Eagles")

   decisionQuality = Decision.Bad;

else if(decision.Team == "Cowboys")

   decisionQuality = Decision.Greatest;

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2 minutes ago, babydemon90 said:

his thought process is simple..

if(decision.Team == "Eagles")

   decisionQuality = Decision.Bad;

else if(decision.Team == "Cowboys")

   decisionQuality = Decision.Greatest;

I think at this point no one care how he ended up on the Eagles, just that he did and now we should focus on his outlook going forward. So a Cowboys' fan doesn't like who the Eagles drafted - big deal. No one reading this thread cares.  The Eagles got their guy and I think they'll have plans to use him.

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16 minutes ago, babydemon90 said:

You realize they literally did the exact same thing when they drafted Ertz in the 2nd, right?  Celek newly on his 2nd contract, recently with 900 and 800 yard seasons, etc.  Investing 2nd round capital in a backup TE at this stage is nothing new.

But Tight Ends are immediate contributors! It's not like it will take 3 seasons for him to round fully into form, just when Ertz will turn 30 and begin to decline. /s

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18 minutes ago, babydemon90 said:

You realize they literally did the exact same thing when they drafted Ertz in the 2nd, right?  Celek newly on his 2nd contract, recently with 900 and 800 yard seasons, etc.  Investing 2nd round capital in a backup TE at this stage is nothing new.

I would've been on board with the Ertz pick.

Surely you aren't comparing Celek to Ertz.

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3 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I would've been on board with the Ertz pick.

Surely you aren't comparing Celek to Ertz.

True, Ertz has yet to put in a 900 yard season, like Celek had.  Not to mention Celek had a much better YPC.

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1 minute ago, babydemon90 said:

True, Ertz has yet to put in a 900 yard season, like Celek had.  Not to mention Celek had a much better YPC.

Riiiiiight. Stats are everything.

You know as well as I do Ertz is a MUCH better NFL TE. Not even close.

Again, I would've been on board with taking Ertz in the 2nd with Celek as the starter.

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5 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Riiiiiight. Stats are everything.

You know as well as I do Ertz is a MUCH better NFL TE. Not even close.

Again, I would've been on board with taking Ertz in the 2nd with Celek as the starter.

Do you believe Goedert is a better prospect than Burton?

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2 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Riiiiiight. Stats are everything.

You know as well as I do Ertz is a MUCH better NFL TE. Not even close.

Again, I would've been on board with taking Ertz in the 2nd with Celek as the starter.

That's revisionist history though.  At the time, Celek was the unquestioned starter, had productive seasons under his belt, was a blocker and a receiver, and in the prime of his career.  TE wasn't a need.  Every single article when he was drafted talked about how exciting it would be to get Celek and Ertz both on the field.
I don't know if we can find discussion threads here from when Ertz was drafted - would an interesting look though.

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Just now, babydemon90 said:

That's revisionist history though.  At the time, Celek was the unquestioned starter, had productive seasons under his belt, was a blocker and a receiver, and in the prime of his career.  TE wasn't a need.  Every single article when he was drafted talked about how exciting it would be to get Celek and Ertz both on the field.
I don't know if we can find discussion threads here from when Ertz was drafted - would an interesting look though.

Not revisionist at all. Not if you understood Celek was a mediocre starting TE (which he was).

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11 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

Do you believe Goedert is a better prospect than Burton?

Coming out of college, Goedert is definitely a better prospect. That said, Burton has a body of work Goedert doesn’t.

It doesn’t have anything to do with why you took Goedert in the 2nd. The reason I’m hearing most often is the 2 monster TEs thing, but that’s simply not going to happen. We’re not talking Gronk/Hernandez here.

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1 minute ago, babydemon90 said:

That's revisionist history though.  At the time, Celek was the unquestioned starter, had productive seasons under his belt, was a blocker and a receiver, and in the prime of his career.  TE wasn't a need.  Every single article when he was drafted talked about how exciting it would be to get Celek and Ertz both on the field.
I don't know if we can find discussion threads here from when Ertz was drafted - would an interesting look though.

"The Eagles currently had Brent Celek and Clay Harbor in the top two spots on the depth chart. Both players are young, so there isn't really a glaring need at the position for the Eagles. That said, Ertz is a potentially special player. He is great speed, size and enough blocking ability to make an immediate impact as a rookie."

 

4 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Not revisionist at all. Not if you understood Celek was a mediocre starting TE (which he was).

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/what-theyre-saying-mixed-reviews-eagles-draft

Prisco believes the Eagles' best selection was Logan, and that their most questionable move was drafting Ertz in the second round with Brent Celek and James Casey already on the roster.

Marvez gave the Eagles the worst grade of all, a "D." Although he liked taking Johnson at No. 4, he wasn't "nearly as fond of using a second-round pick on ... Ertz with Brent Celek and James Casey already on the roster nor with the Eagles spending a fourth-round choice on Barkley with Nick Foles already serving as Michael Vick’s backup.

Again, back in 2013, the Ertz pick was VERY similar to the Goedert pick.  For YEARS we were wondering if Ertz would ever break out, the potential was there, but... 
 

And f me now that I had to revisit the stupid Barkley pick.  

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It's actually better now - there isn't really a #2 now - when Ertz was drafted Clay Harbor was on the team as a solid, if unspectacular #2 (basically it'd be like drafting Goedert if we still had Burton)

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6 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Coming out of college, Goedert is definitely a better prospect. That said, Burton has a body of work Goedert doesn’t.

It doesn’t have anything to do with why you took Goedert in the 2nd. The reason I’m hearing most often is the 2 monster TEs thing, but that’s simply not going to happen. We’re not talking Gronk/Hernandez here.

I'm just trying to steer the thread towards actual fantasy relevance. Its no longer important whether or not you agree with the pick.  He's the Eagles' most likely TE2 this year.  Let's move forward.

Burton was TE2 last year and finished as a high TE3 for FFL. IMO, its possible (if not likely) Goedert can meet or exceed those numbers in a year or two in Pederson's offense. I believe they will have a plan to utilize the 2-TE formations, particularly in the red zone.

Edited by Amused to Death
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10 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Coming out of college, Goedert is definitely a better prospect. That said, Burton has a body of work Goedert doesn’t.

It doesn’t have anything to do with why you took Goedert in the 2nd. The reason I’m hearing more often is the 2 monster TEs thing, but that’s simply not going to happen. We’re not talking Gronk/Hernandez here.

How can Goedert have a body of work when he was just drafted?!!!!

We hear you. You don't think Goedert is a good pick. You don't have to tell us this ever again. Thanks.

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2 hours ago, Football Jones said:

Coming out of college, Goedert is definitely a better prospect. That said, Burton has a body of work Goedert doesn’t.

It doesn’t have anything to do with why you took Goedert in the 2nd. The reason I’m hearing most often is the 2 monster TEs thing, but that’s simply not going to happen. We’re not talking Gronk/Hernandez here.

How you do know we're not talking Gronk/Hernandez here?  You have no idea how the Eagles will use Goedert.

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1 hour ago, dhockster said:

How can Goedert have a body of work when he was just drafted?!!!!

We hear you. You don't think Goedert is a good pick. You don't have to tell us this ever again. Thanks.

Exactly. We don’t know what Goedert can do yet.

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This debate has pretty much run its course. I was hoping to express my opinion, give reasons, then have a quick debate, but it’s REALLY hard to have a civil debate with Philly fans. Most of them get rather salty when a negative opinion is expressed. LOL.

Not all, but many Eagles fans on this board resort to insults when they don’t agree with a narrative. This thread is proof. Still, no hard feelings. It is what it is. 

I’m quite confident taking Goedert in the 2nd wasn’t an optimal pick at very best & a bad pick at worst, but the proof will be in the pudding. 

It’ll be interesting to see how it works out.

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4 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

This debate has pretty much run its course. I was hoping to express my opinion, give reasons, then have a quick debate, but it’s REALLY hard to have a civil debate with Philly fans. Most of them get rather salty when a negative opinion is expressed. LOL.

Not all, but many Eagles fans on this board resort to insults when they don’t agree with a negative narrative. This thread is proof. Still, no hard feelings. It is what it is. 

I’m quite confident it wasn’t an optimal pick for the reasons I gave, but the proof will be in the pudding. 

It’ll be interesting to see how it works out.

Just curious, was Connor Williams an optimal pick for the Cowboys when the strength is the OL and the lack of talent is at WR, TE, CB and S?

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2 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

Just curious, was Connor Williams an optimal pick for the Cowboys when the strength is the OL and the lack of talent is at WR, TE, CB and S?

I think Dallas would tell you that the reason the OL is such a strength is because they keep addressing it even when it's not a need.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

Just curious, was Connor Williams an optimal pick for the Cowboys when the strength is the OL and the lack of talent is at WR, TE, CB and S?

of course!

it was their plan all along and one of the best picks in cowboys history!

I mean that great offensive line has gotten them so many playoff wins and championships over the past few years.

gotta go for more depth there

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50 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I’m talking about the talent.

I know Ertz/Goedert isn’t Gronk/Hernandez. Nowhere close.

I’m not so sure about that.  Ertz was 3rd and Gronk 2nd 27 puts apart and Goedert can be better than Hernandez.  Saying it isn’t close is a stretch.   Also, it doesn’t appear Ertz is threatening retirement, nor has the injury history that Gronk has.

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U

9 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I’m not so sure about that.  Ertz was 3rd and Gronk 2nd 27 puts apart and Goedert can be better than Hernandez.  Saying it isn’t close is a stretch.   Also, it doesn’t appear Ertz is threatening retirement, nor has the injury history that Gronk has.

Wow. To say Ertz is even in the same tier as Gronk is a huge stretch. Then with Goedert being a 2nd round rookie, he shouldn’t even be in the same conversation with Hernandez.

Gronk/Hernandez were difficult to defend, but Ertz/Goedert, as they stand now, can’t realistically be compared, IMO.

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43 minutes ago, need2know said:

of course!

it was their plan all along and one of the best picks in cowboys history!

I mean that great offensive line has gotten them so many playoff wins and championships over the past few years.

gotta go for more depth there

Just the simple fact Williams will start for us at LG (our weakest position on the OL) & can also cover for Tyrone at LT (something we obviously lacked last season that killed us), makes him worth his weight in gold.

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30 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

U

Wow. To say Ertz is even in the same tier as Gronk is a huge stretch. Then with Goedert being a 2nd round rookie, he shouldn’t even be in the same conversation with Hernandez.

Gronk/Hernandez were difficult to defend, but Ertz/Goedert, as they stand now, can’t realistically be compared, IMO.

I disagree obviously 

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27 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Just the simple fact Williams will start for us at LG (our weakest position on the OL) & can also cover for Tyrone at LT (something we obviously lacked last season that killed us), makes him worth his weight in gold.

Cowboys aren’t close to contending for a title.  Jerry Jones will probably be dead before that happens.

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6 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Not sure what that has to do with what I posted, but ok, LOL.

Williams sure won’t put them over the top.   The Eagles will own the Cowboys for years to come.  Goedert will score a TD against them every year for the next 15 years.

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2 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Williams sure won’t put them over the top.   The Eagles will own the Cowboys for years to come.  Goedert will score a TD against them every year for the next 15 years.

But they drafted depth. Cowboys win. Eagles drafted the highest rated TE that will play nearly half the time in their scheme and it was not an optimal pick. Please catch up JU!

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4 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Just curious, was Connor Williams an optimal pick for the Cowboys when the strength is the OL and the lack of talent is at WR, TE, CB and S?

 

4 hours ago, need2know said:

of course!

it was their plan all along and one of the best picks in cowboys history!

I mean that great offensive line has gotten them so many playoff wins and championships over the past few years.

gotta go for more depth there

You're embarrassing yourselves here

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47 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

 

You're embarrassing yourselves here

The lack of answers to probing questions seem to be pretty embarrassing for Cowboy fans. Not surprising though. 

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I know Waldman had Goedert as the top TE in the draft, but specifically pointed out he might not be excused from blocking enough to be a big fantasy force early (IE: He can actually block!)

Taking the top player at anyn position other than PK/punter in the second round is never a bad idea, regardless of "need". And yet, as it has been pointed out, Philly DID have a need at TE.

Walman's opinion>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Football Jones IMO

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7 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

The lack of answers to probing questions seem to be pretty embarrassing for Cowboy fans. Not surprising though. 

What's the probing question you'd like answered?

You posted that the strength of the team last yr was the oline. You really think that was the case? They had junk at LG going into this draft.

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It would not surprise me to see Goedert post a first year line similar to Njoku and OJ Howard. On the Eagles offense he should get 5-7 TDs. They may lack the extreme upside of Gronk/Hernandez but the comparisons are valid. At this time next year prepare to see two Eagles drafted as top ten TEs in dynasty startups.

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31 minutes ago, stuckinthemuck said:

It would not surprise me to see Goedert post a first year line similar to Njoku and OJ Howard. On the Eagles offense he should get 5-7 TDs. They may lack the extreme upside of Gronk/Hernandez but the comparisons are valid. At this time next year prepare to see two Eagles drafted as top ten TEs in dynasty startups.

~35 catches, 300-400 yards, 4-5 TD's - yea, I think that's pretty close to what I would expect.  Redraft leagues especially he's a huge stretch.

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14 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Cowboys aren’t close to contending for a title.  Jerry Jones will probably be dead before that happens.

 

14 hours ago, Football Jones said:

Not sure what that has to do with what I posted, but ok, LOL.

never a bad time to make that point.

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1 hour ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

It’s all they do, it’s awful.

It takes two to bicker. In this thread, Football Jones presented his opinion that the Eagles didn't make a good pick primarily because the Eagles didn't have a need at TE. The Eagles fans refuted that they did have a need because they lost their 2nd and 3rd TE's, Ertz tends to miss a few games a year, and the Eagles like to run a lot of 2 TE sets. Presented with these facts, Football Jones proceeded to restate his opinion that the Eagles made a bad pick and then complain that you can't argue with Eagle fans because they are so negative. This is Football Jones standard operating procedure.

I agree that Eagles fans on this board tend to go overboard to comment on the Cowboys, but I think it is fully justified for Eagles fans to argue with Cowboy Fans when they state opinions that generally don't have any support. That is usually the case with Football Jones.

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17 hours ago, Football Jones said:

U

Wow. To say Ertz is even in the same tier as Gronk is a huge stretch. Then with Goedert being a 2nd round rookie, he shouldn’t even be in the same conversation with Hernandez.

The Hernandez that was a third round rookie?

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

 

17 hours ago, Football Jones said:

U

Wow. To say Ertz is even in the same tier as Gronk is a huge stretch. Then with Goedert being a 2nd round rookie, he shouldn’t even be in the same conversation with Hernandez.

The Hernandez that was a third round rookie?

 

Hernandez's rookie stats: 45 receptions, 543 yds, 6 TDs.  Nice, but not eye-popping.  Certainly attainable for Goedert although I'd put that as his ceiling.

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20 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

Hernandez's rookie stats: 45 receptions, 543 yds, 6 TDs.  Nice, but not eye-popping.  Certainly attainable for Goedert although I'd put that as his ceiling.

If Goedert gets this stat line at the end of the year, the hype train will be going full speed ahead. 

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2 hours ago, dhockster said:

It takes two to bicker. In this thread, Football Jones presented his opinion that the Eagles didn't make a good pick primarily because the Eagles didn't have a need at TE. The Eagles fans refuted that they did have a need because they lost their 2nd and 3rd TE's, Ertz tends to miss a few games a year, and the Eagles like to run a lot of 2 TE sets. Presented with these facts, Football Jones proceeded to restate his opinion that the Eagles made a bad pick and then complain that you can't argue with Eagle fans because they are so negative. This is Football Jones standard operating procedure.

I agree that Eagles fans on this board tend to go overboard to comment on the Cowboys, but I think it is fully justified for Eagles fans to argue with Cowboy Fans when they state opinions that generally don't have any support. That is usually the case with Football Jones.

I did support my opinion. You guys just didn't like it, LOL. When I answered questions, I was accused of restating my opinion over & over. It's an impossible situation.

For some reason, Philly fans think we have some axe to grind. The two fan bases are coming from different viewpoints. One, has a long history of being upstaged by Dallas. That seems to have formed a deep bias. I know many Cowboys fans who rooted for the Eagles in the Super Bowl. I'm wiling to bet there isn't one true Philly fan who would root for Dallas in a Super Bowl. :) That's the difference between the two fan bases.

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2 hours ago, dhockster said:

It takes two to bicker. In this thread, Football Jones presented his opinion that the Eagles didn't make a good pick primarily because the Eagles didn't have a need at TE. The Eagles fans refuted that they did have a need because they lost their 2nd and 3rd TE's, Ertz tends to miss a few games a year, and the Eagles like to run a lot of 2 TE sets. Presented with these facts, Football Jones proceeded to restate his opinion that the Eagles made a bad pick and then complain that you can't argue with Eagle fans because they are so negative. This is Football Jones standard operating procedure.

I agree that Eagles fans on this board tend to go overboard to comment on the Cowboys, but I think it is fully justified for Eagles fans to argue with Cowboy Fans when they state opinions that generally don't have any support. That is usually the case with Football Jones.

Forgot to add, when asked who Football Jones would have taken he stated, "I made it clear I didn't do any research on who I would've taken as an optimal pick."  So he readily admits that he has no clue who would have been a good pick for the Eagles, just that Goedert was a bad pick even though he's been repeatedly informed in this thread about how much Philly needed a TE.

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4 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I did support my opinion. You guys just didn't like it, LOL. When I answered questions, I was accused of restating my opinion over & over. It's an impossible situation.

For some reason, Philly fans think we have some axe to grind. The two fan bases are coming from different viewpoints. One, has a long history of being upstaged by Dallas. That seems to have formed a deep bias. I know many Cowboys fans who rooted for the Eagles in the Super Bowl. I'm wiling to bet there isn't one true Philly fan who would root for Dallas in a Super Bowl. :) That's the difference between the two fan bases.

I have no axe to grind, I only question why you continue to bring this up a month after the draft?  And it has ZERO relevance in this thread.  Give it up.  Move on.

At least add something relevant to the thread. 

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