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TE Dallas Goedert, PHI (3 Viewers)

BTW, no, Goedert isn't in the same universe as Hernandez (& I like Goedert as a prospect). Ertz/Goedert are light years in raw talent behind Gronk/Hernandez. I mean, Ertz isn't even Hernandez, who was the second fiddle to Gronk. Imagine what Hernandez would've done being featured in that offense.

Also, it's a poor analogy to compare Goedert to Hernandez using their draft pick status. Goedert simply doesn't have Hernandez' raw receiving ability (& neither does Ertz).

The thought the Eagles have an elite TE duo who they will feature in their offense like Gronk/Hernandez is pretty silly. I don't think Pedersen, himself, even believes that.

 
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Snotbubbles said:
Forgot to add, when asked who Football Jones would have taken he stated, "I made it clear I didn't do any research on who I would've taken as an optimal pick."  So he readily admits that he has no clue who would have been a good pick for the Eagles, just that Goedert was a bad pick even though he's been repeatedly informed in this thread about how much Philly needed a TE.
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I'm done with this guys, It's silly, but what you said isn't true.

I said I didn't do any research to identify exactly who I would've taken & I'm not going to. That said, I did mention two guys off the top of my head that would likely have more of an impact (Williams & Guice). I also mentioned this is a deep class & there would be more than a few players who would make more of an impact than a backuo TE. 

I use this board because of my hobby. I found the Goedert pick really odd so I posted about it. I'll continue to post things I'm interested in. If it twerks a fan base, then it twerks a fan base. We should be able to have a civil debate about the topic. There's inherently going to be some snarkiness online, but the insults & stuff like that brings the board down. 

 
Amused to Death said:
idI have no axe to grind, I only question why you continue to bring this up a month after the draft?  And it has ZERO relevance in this thread.  Give it up.  Move on.

At least add something relevant to the thread. 
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I brought it up because we got sidetracked with the snide remarks that hurts threads. We simply ought to be able to have a civil debate here without worrying about who the poster's favorite team is. You know as well as I do that's an igniter for your fan base. 

What I said about Goedert (who I said I liked as a prospect) should've been a quick debate about the pros & cons of the pick, but as usual, the insults started. I think it probably wouldn't have been as bad if a poster whose favorite team wasn't Dallas brought it up, but tough titty. Like I said, I'm not going to bale on a topic I feel is interesting because I might get some backlash.

 
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Football Jones said:
I brought it up because we got sidetracked with the snide remarks that hurts threads. We simply ought to be able to have a civil debate here without worrying about who the poster's favorite team is. You know as well as I do that's an igniter for your fan base. 

What I said about Goedert (who I said I liked as a prospect) should've been a quick debate about the pros & cons of the pick, but as usual, the insults started. I think it probably wouldn't have been as bad if a poster whose favorite team wasn't Dallas brought it up, but tough titty. Like I said, I'm not going to bale on a topic I feel is interesting because I might get some backlash.
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There's a thread for that, and its been discussed....a lot.  No one else cares.

 
Amused to Death said:
There's a thread for that, and its been discussed....a lot.  No one else cares.
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I think this debate is typical of what can happen when genuine bias rears its ugly head.

I kind of feel for the posters who just would like to see a debate. I catch myself answering insults & nobody wants to see that on this board.

I'm moving on as far as this topic is concerned (at least for now). I've made my point about the Goedert pick. Nothing else I can really add at this point.

 
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Football Jones said:
I think this debate is typical of what can happen when genuine bias rears its ugly head.

I kind of feel for the posters who just would like to see a debate. I catch myself answering insults & nobody wants to see that on this board.

I'm moving on as far as this topic is concerned (at least for now). I've made my point about the Goedert pick. Nothing else I can really add at this point.
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Goedert is going to be a stud, even with Ertz on the team.

 
Football Jones said:
I did support my opinion. You guys just didn't like it, LOL. When I answered questions, I was accused of restating my opinion over & over. It's an impossible situation.

For some reason, Philly fans think we have some axe to grind. The two fan bases are coming from different viewpoints. One, has a long history of being upstaged by Dallas. That seems to have formed a deep bias. I know many Cowboys fans who rooted for the Eagles in the Super Bowl. I'm wiling to bet there isn't one true Philly fan who would root for Dallas in a Super Bowl. :) That's the difference between the two fan bases.
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Do you disagree that your overall premise was that Goedart was a bad pick because the Eagles didn't need a Tight End? If so, did i and others not give valid reasons for why Philly did have a need at TE?

I think the main thing you miss about the Eagles, is that you have opined in other threads that you think a team needs elite players at skill positions to win. If so, which of the Eagles do you consider elite? Ertz? Jeffery? Ajayi? Clement? Wentz? My guess is you wouldn't clarify any as elite. Which makes it so mystifying as to how they won the Super Bowl last year according to your theory. Goedart will probably fit right in with this crew because he will probably be another good player that isn't good enough for the defense to key on, but he will be good enough to beat his man one on one in the right scheme.

I admit i view the world through Kelly Green colored lenses, while you view yours through Cowboy blue colored lenses. I don't think I have insulted you personally, and if I have I apologize. I just get frustrated because I think you tend to support your opinions with more opinions. Perhaps you don't see that, but that is how you come across most of the time, at least to me. I am a stats guy so I like to use statistics to support what I believe. For instance, if I thought that Zach Ertz was a much better TE than Brent Celek than I would look for the statistics that support that. Guess what? Ertz has more receptions than Celek had in a season (78 to 76). However, Celek has more yards in a season (971 to 853), Celek has a higher yards per reception in a season (15.7 to 13.0) and they are tied for most TD's in a season (8). I think Ertz will have more productive seasons than Celek, but that is probably more due to who each had as QB than a difference in their TE ability. So based on statistics I would not conclude that Ertz is a much better TE than Celek. Better but not much better.

Anyway, I hope you don't take anything personally. I am just arguing my opinion on a message board because it distracts from work. 

 
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dhockster said:
Do you disagree that your overall premise was that Goedart was a bad pick because the Eagles didn't need a Tight End? If so, did i and others not give valid reasons for why Philly did have a need at TE?

I think the main thing you miss about the Eagles, is that you have opined in other threads that you think a team needs elite players at skill positions to win. If so, which of the Eagles do you consider elite? Ertz? Jeffery? Ajayi? Clement? Wentz? My guess is you wouldn't clarify any as elite. Which makes it so mystifying as to how they won the Super Bowl last year according to your theory. Goedart will probably fit right in with this crew because he will probably be another good player that isn't good enough for the defense to key on, but he will be good enough to beat his man one on one in the right scheme.

I admit i view the world through Kelly Green colored lenses, while you view yours through Cowboy blue colored lenses. I don't think I have insulted you personally, and if I have I apologize. I just get frustrated because I think you tend to support your opinions with more opinions. Perhaps you don't see that, but that is how you come across most of the time, at least to me. I am a stats guy so I like to use statistics to support what I believe. For instance, if I thought that Zach Ertz was a much better TE than Brent Celek than I would look for the statistics that support that. Guess what? Ertz has more receptions than Celek had in a season (78 to 76). However, Celek has more yards in a season (971 to 853), Celek has a higher yards per reception in a season (15.7 to 13.0) and they are tied for most TD's in a season (8). I think Ertz will have more productive seasons than Celek, but that is probably more due to who each had as QB than a difference in their TE ability. So based on statistics I would not conclude that Ertz is a much better TE than Celek. Better but not much better.

Anyway, I hope you don't take anything personally. I am just arguing my opinion on a message board because it distracts from work. 
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I have no problem with you giving your opinion. I obviously don't agree with it, but that's ok. Where it starts to break down is with the insults (not saying you, personally). I have thick skin & can take it, but the board suffers.

In regards to Goedert, as you know, stats can be manipulated many ways. Sometimes they don't hold a candle to the truth. You tell me how much Celek & Burton played, but they were still backups & I believe that's what Goedert will essentially be (unless something happens to Ertz).

You may run 12 personnel a lot, but it doesn't necessarily mean Goedert will be a big part of your offense (I don't believe he will). Sure, I can understand the logic in replacing guys who leave, but I don't believe Goedert in the 2nd was an optimal pick for the reasons I gave. My side of it is more opinion-based & yours is stat-based. Both sides can have merit in a debate.

 
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Football Jones said:
I have no problem with you giving your opinion. I obviously don't agree with it, but that's ok. Where it starts to break down is with the insults (not saying you, personally). I have thick skin & can take it, but the board suffers.

In regards to Goedert, as you know, stats can be manipulated many ways. Sometimes they don't hold a candle to the truth. You tell me how much Celek & Burton played, but they were still backups & I believe that's what Goedert will essentially be (unless something happens to Ertz).

You may run 12 personnel a lot, but it doesn't necessarily mean Goedert will be a big part of your offense (I don't believe he will). Sure, I can understand the logic in replacing guys who leave, but I don't believe Goedert in the 2nd was an optimal pick for the reasons I gave. My side of it is more opinion-based & yours is stat-based. Both sides can have merit in a debate.
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It doesn't matter to me if Goedart is a backup, as long as he is productive in what he does. Burton may not have played a whole lot but contributing 5 TD's is huge to the Eagles offense as a whole. I think Goedart can fill that same role. I just don't know if he can throw the way Burton did (Philly Special, Baby!!)

For purposes of this thread, I think Goedart will put up numbers next year similar to Burton's this year. Probably around 20 catches for around 250 yards and let's say 4 TD's. I think his value as a blocking/receiving TE will be more as a football player than as a fantasy football stat producing TE.

 
dhockster said:
It doesn't matter to me if Goedart is a backup, as long as he is productive in what he does. Burton may not have played a whole lot but contributing 5 TD's is huge to the Eagles offense as a whole. I think Goedart can fill that same role. I just don't know if he can throw the way Burton did (Philly Special, Baby!!)

For purposes of this thread, I think Goedart will put up numbers next year similar to Burton's this year. Probably around 20 catches for around 250 yards and let's say 4 TD's. I think his value as a blocking/receiving TE will be more as a football player than as a fantasy football stat producing TE.
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One last point I want to make is I believe most of Burton's production or at least a good chunk of it came when Ertz was out, correct?

In the context of what I'm talking about, it's not the same as saying Ertz/Goedert will make a formidable TE duo. If something happens to Ertz, then Goedert is obviously more in the spotlight. That said, TEs typically take awhile to develop.

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
We don't believe you.
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LOL. dhockster was cordial in his exchange. I don't mind debating things if it's civil.

I have news for you, in particular, though. I'll continue to post about things I'm interested regardless of the "heat" I might potentially face. ;)

 
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Football Jones said:
LOL. dhockster was cordial in his exchange. I don't mind debating things if it's civil.

I have news for you, in particular, though. I'll continue to post about things I'm interested regardless of the wrath I might potentially face.;)
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You have not debated anything - you have posted 25 times about how it was a bad pick for the Eagles in a fantasy football thread which contributes nothing to the topic and shows you have an axe to grind.

 
Football Jones said:
One last point I want to make is I believe most of Burton's production or at least a good chunk of it came when Ertz was out, correct?

In the context of what I'm talking about, it's not the same as saying Ertz/Goedert will make a formidable TE duo. If something happens to Ertz, then Goedert is obviously more in the spotlight. That said, TEs typically take awhile to develop.
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You are correct. 3 of Burton's 5 TD's came when Ertz was out. However, in the other 2 games that Burton scored TD's, Ertz did as well. 

I am not really worried about whether Ertz and Goedart make a formidable TE duo, I am just happy if they are both contributing members of the Eagles offense. That is how the Eagles were successful last year, getting contributions from many sources.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
You have not debated anything - you have posted 25 times about how it was a bad pick for the Eagles in a fantasy football thread which contributes nothing to the topic and shows you have an axe to grind.
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Of course I've debated the topic. I've laid out several reasons why it wasn't an optimal pick.

You don't like what you hear is the problem. I don't agree with your take either, but I accept it.

I've gone out of my way answering the same questions multiple times. If somebody has a different spin on it & is civil, then I wouldn't mind expanding on it further. I think it's about run its course, but we'll see.

 
dhockster said:
You are correct. 3 of Burton's 5 TD's came when Ertz was out. However, in the other 2 games that Burton scored TD's, Ertz did as well. 

I am not really worried about whether Ertz and Goedart make a formidable TE duo, I am just happy if they are both contributing members of the Eagles offense. That is how the Eagles were successful last year, getting contributions from many sources.
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There are always pros to drafting a good prospect (which I believe Goedert is) despite my insistence it wasn't optimal.

It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

 
Football Jones said:
I did support my opinion. You guys just didn't like it, LOL. When I answered questions, I was accused of restating my opinion over & over. It's an impossible situation.

For some reason, Philly fans think we have some axe to grind. The two fan bases are coming from different viewpoints. One, has a long history of being upstaged by Dallas. That seems to have formed a deep bias. I know many Cowboys fans who rooted for the Eagles in the Super Bowl. I'm wiling to bet there isn't one true Philly fan who would root for Dallas in a Super Bowl. :) That's the difference between the two fan bases.
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I would never ever, EVER root for the Redskins, Giants or Eagles. 

 
dhockster said:
Do you disagree that your overall premise was that Goedart was a bad pick because the Eagles didn't need a Tight End? If so, did i and others not give valid reasons for why Philly did have a need at TE?

I think the main thing you miss about the Eagles, is that you have opined in other threads that you think a team needs elite players at skill positions to win. If so, which of the Eagles do you consider elite? Ertz? Jeffery? Ajayi? Clement? Wentz? My guess is you wouldn't clarify any as elite. Which makes it so mystifying as to how they won the Super Bowl last year according to your theory. Goedart will probably fit right in with this crew because he will probably be another good player that isn't good enough for the defense to key on, but he will be good enough to beat his man one on one in the right scheme.

I admit i view the world through Kelly Green colored lenses, while you view yours through Cowboy blue colored lenses. I don't think I have insulted you personally, and if I have I apologize. I just get frustrated because I think you tend to support your opinions with more opinions. Perhaps you don't see that, but that is how you come across most of the time, at least to me. I am a stats guy so I like to use statistics to support what I believe. For instance, if I thought that Zach Ertz was a much better TE than Brent Celek than I would look for the statistics that support that. Guess what? Ertz has more receptions than Celek had in a season (78 to 76). However, Celek has more yards in a season (971 to 853), Celek has a higher yards per reception in a season (15.7 to 13.0) and they are tied for most TD's in a season (8). I think Ertz will have more productive seasons than Celek, but that is probably more due to who each had as QB than a difference in their TE ability. So based on statistics I would not conclude that Ertz is a much better TE than Celek. Better but not much better.

Anyway, I hope you don't take anything personally. I am just arguing my opinion on a message board because it distracts from work. 
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Lets just end this right now. If Dal had gotten this guy Football Jones would be hyping him up to the moon and the best TE since Tony Gonzalez and Gronk. He's just upset we got the guy he wanted his team to take. We just need Goedert to replicate what Burton did and we are fine. He does more then that well icing on the cake and can you say unfair offense? Carson has a another Toy to help the offense which is great. Eagles needed TE depth. A part of me yes thinks Eagles intentionally jumped ahead of Dal for him but not for the reasons people think. I believe with the Witten news Howie and CO knew Dal was in desperate need to reinforce the Position. Two of the top 3 TEs just got drafted already in that round. Eagles didn't want miss out on one of their targets. Dude seems to love the game and a quick study. He's also seems like a great character guy. It was a good pick even if I wanted Guice or someone else instead and I think it's great value for where they got him anyway. 

 
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DJackson10 said:
Lets just end this right now. If Dal had gotten this guy Football Jones would be hyping him up to the moon and the best TE since Tony Gonzalez and Gronk. He's just upset we got the guy he wanted his team to take. We just need Goedert to replicate what Burton did and we are fine. He does more then that well icing on the cake and can you say unfair offense? Carson has a another Toy to help the offense which is great. Eagles needed TE depth. A part of me yes thinks Eagles intentionally jumped ahead of Dal for him but not for the reasons people think. I believe with the Witten news Howie and CO knew Dal was in desperate need to reinforce the Position. Two of the top 3 TEs just got drafted already in that round. Eagles didn't want miss out on one of their targets. Dude seems to love the game and a quick study. He's also seems like a great character guy. It was a good pick even if I wanted Guice or someone else instead and I think it's great value for where they got him anyway. 
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That’s pretty unfair saying I’d hype Goedert to the moon. I’ve made it clear I like him as a prospect, but with Rico’s upside, Williams was the better pick by a mile, especially getting Schultz where we did (who I view as a Celek clone & has starter potential).

I would’ve been pissed had we taken Goedert & lost Williams. Taking Williams there & moving him to G is huge. He’s an outstanding T prospect, but an elite G prospect. 

If we didn’t have Rico & his enormous potential, there would’ve definitely been some merit to looking at a TE on day-2. You have to make every pick count in the salary cap era not to mention the NFC is getting extremely tough.

As far as Goedert, I liked seeing you guys take him there as a Cowboys fan. We’ll just have to wait to see how much impact he’ll have.

 
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Football Jones said:
I think this debate is typical of what can happen when genuine bias rears its ugly head.
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Good point. But don't discount yourself from this. It's from both sides, especially you. 

Football Jones said:
I know many Cowboys fans who rooted for the Eagles in the Super Bowl. I'm wiling to bet there isn't one true Philly fan who would root for Dallas in a Super Bowl. :) That's the difference between the two fan bases.
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1.  No true dallas fan should have rooted for the Eagles. That's silly. That would take away your (ya well you can't win the big game) argument which is the only thing most of y'all have been clinging to for the last 20 yrs. 

2.  Don't act like the fanbases act/root against each other any differently or that we are miles apart on how we feel about each other. There's equal hate going both ways. As there should be. It doesn't make you some superior fan to cheer for your enemy, it makes you a worse one. 

 
Deamon said:
Good point. But don't discount yourself from this. It's from both sides, especially you. 

1.  No true dallas fan should have rooted for the Eagles. That's silly. That would take away your (ya well you can't win the big game) argument which is the only thing most of y'all have been clinging to for the last 20 yrs. 

2.  Don't act like the fanbases act/root against each other any differently or that we are miles apart on how we feel about each other. There's equal hate going both ways. As there should be. It doesn't make you some superior fan to cheer for your enemy, it makes you a worse one. 
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Is that right? I didn't insult anybody. I was quite civil throughout the debate, even after insults directed at me as well as my favorite team. I have really thick skin, but the snide remarks & such just bring the board down in general. 

Now you're telling me I shouldn't root for the Eagles. Who the F do you think you are? I'll root for whoever I want. Like I said, I know a lot of Dallas fans who rooted for the Eagles (including me) in the Super Bowl. If nothing else, it looks good for the NFC East.

Bottom line, that's the difference between the two fan bases. There's simply MUCH more animosity towards Cowboys fans than the other way around. It's an interesting dynamic, certainly rooted in the many years of taking a back seat to Dallas. I kind of get it, but at the same time, it's rather childish.

 
Football Jones said:
Is that right? I didn't insult anybody. I was quite civil throughout the debate, even after insults directed at me as well as my favorite team. I have really thick skin, but the snide remarks & such just bring the board down in general. 

Now you're telling me I shouldn't root for the Eagles. Who the F do you think you are? I'll root for whoever I want. Like I said, I know a lot of Dallas fans who rooted for the Eagles (including me) in the Super Bowl. If nothing else, it looks good for the NFC East.

Bottom line, that's the difference between the two fan bases. There's simply MUCH more animosity towards Cowboys fans than the other way around. It's an interesting dynamic, certainly rooted in the many years of taking a back seat to Dallas. I kind of get it, but at the same time, it's rather childish.
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Someone's a little riled up. 

Your self-proclaimed "civil" tone comes across as condescending and "know-it-all".  You're passively aggressively throwing stones at Eagles fans while trying to act innocent. " that's the difference between our fan bases, we've owned you for so long that you guys hate us more than we hate you. Look at me and others being mature and cheering you on while you guys can't do the same" is quite a manipulative and pompous way of doing your own insult-throwing. Nobody buys it, hence calling you out which you then act blind to the whole thing and like you're some victim of insults (have you not seen the things other Cowboys fans have said about Eagles fans in our/your thread??  You guys are just as/if not more guilty of it if you didn't turn a blind eye to it) 

There's as much animosity the other way, as shown by your mates in here. There's nothing wrong with animosity towards a rival, but you paint it in a negative way to somehow put your fan base ahead of ours. Maybe the years of we'll documented arrogance from your fanbase is something you choose to be naive to when putting yourselves on a pedestal, but it seems like you, and others, who have lost your ability to claim "you can't win a championship" are now scrambling for something negative to say (like we overdrafted Goedert or our fans have more hate than your fans). Again, no one is buying your shtick or subtle (not so subtle) jabs. 

 
Deamon said:
Someone's a little riled up. 

Your self-proclaimed "civil" tone comes across as condescending and "know-it-all".  You're passively aggressively throwing stones at Eagles fans while trying to act innocent. " that's the difference between our fan bases, we've owned you for so long that you guys hate us more than we hate you. Look at me and others being mature and cheering you on while you guys can't do the same" is quite a manipulative and pompous way of doing your own insult-throwing. Nobody buys it, hence calling you out which you then act blind to the whole thing and like you're some victim of insults (have you not seen the things other Cowboys fans have said about Eagles fans in our/your thread??  You guys are just as/if not more guilty of it if you didn't turn a blind eye to it) 

There's as much animosity the other way, as shown by your mates in here. There's nothing wrong with animosity towards a rival, but you paint it in a negative way to somehow put your fan base ahead of ours. Maybe the years of we'll documented arrogance from your fanbase is something you choose to be naive to when putting yourselves on a pedestal, but it seems like you, and others, who have lost your ability to claim "you can't win a championship" are now scrambling for something negative to say (like we overdrafted Goedert or our fans have more hate than your fans). Again, no one is buying your shtick or subtle (not so subtle) jabs. 
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Of course I'd rather beat Philly when we play them, but depending on the situation, I might root for the Eagles. You actually tried to tell me who I can root for, LOL. You're kidding, right?

Subtle jabs? Schtick? I don't think so. I'm pretty straightforward as evidenced by this topic. I post about what interests me. I thought the Goedert pick was really odd so I made my opinion known. Maybe debate it. Did I think it would twerk some thin-skinned Philly fans? Probably, but I can't let that keep me from posting about relevant FF & NFL news.

I'm also in the Jaylen Samuels thread explaining my opinion. There's some disagreement, but that thread is how a debate should go (in general). Some of you guys make it literally impossible to have a healthy debate when it concerns something regarding the Eagles. Like I said, though, I can't let that influence what I post about (if it's something worthwhile).

 
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Football Jones said:
Of course I've debated the topic. I've laid out several reasons why it wasn't an optimal pick.

You don't like what you hear is the problem. I don't agree with your take either, but I accept it.

I've gone out of my way answering the same questions multiple times. If somebody has a different spin on it & is civil, then I wouldn't mind expanding on it further. I think it's about run its course, but we'll see.
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I'm not an Eagles fan and I could not care less about whether or not you think it was a bad pick. You hope it is obviously. No one cares at this point. This thread is to discuss his dynasty and redraft value.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I'm not an Eagles fan and I could not care less about whether or not you think it was a bad pick. You hope it is obviously. No one cares at this point. This thread is to discuss his dynasty and redraft value.
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We talk about all things NFL on this board. What impact Goedert will have in Philly (which is essentially what the topic was about), is certainly relevant. That said, the debate got sidetracked which isn't good.

Regardless, my suggestion is if you don't want to be involved in the topic at hand, skip over the posts. Or better yet, contribute to the thread.

 
:lmao:  you guys think you can take this thread to 15 pages by the start of training camp? Dallas would be a happy kid to see this much talk about him

 
Football Jones said:
Of course I've debated the topic. I've laid out several reasons why it wasn't an optimal pick.

You don't like what you hear is the problem. I don't agree with your take either, but I accept it.

I've gone out of my way answering the same questions multiple times. If somebody has a different spin on it & is civil, then I wouldn't mind expanding on it further. I think it's about run its course, but we'll see.
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The one reason you've given is that reliable backup TEs can be had later in the draft. A debatable premise, but at least reasonable. The other reason you gave was because it wasn't a need for Philly...THAT reason has been thoroughly debunked, and you've done nothing since but double down on your bad pick statement.

I call BS on your first though....keep in mind that to defend that position you'd have to open your team up to even greater criticism re. Elliot....after all, RBs have not been worthy of a high first in DECADES.

Back to topic: TEs take a couple of years, who drafted him is immaterial. When he's ready to take over as a stud, Philly can let Ertz go....or they can go TE heavy like NE briefly did. EIther way, his 2018 has a fairly low cap (barring a long Ertz injury), and if he's a top TE talent, it won't matter who else is on the roster in 2019 forward. I lean towards the top talent personally.

 
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Cowboysfan8 said:
:no:

No fn way I'd root for the eagles against anybody
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but you are a Dodgers fan? 

ETA: and how the hell did i let myself get sucked into this. I will see myself out because i offer no analysis of the kid at this point

 
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renesauz said:
The one reason you've given is that reliable backup TEs can be had later in the draft. A debatable premise, but at least reasonable. The other reason you gave was because it wasn't a need for Philly...THAT reason has been thoroughly debunked, and you've done nothing since but double down on your bad pick statement.

I call BS on your first though....keep in mind that to defend that position you'd have to open your team up to even greater criticism re. Elliot....after all, RBs have not been worthy of a high first in DECADES.

Back to topic: TEs take a couple of years, who drafted him is immaterial. When he's ready to take over as a stud, Philly can let Ertz go....or they can go TE heavy like NE briefly did. EIther way, his 2018 has a fairly low cap (barring a long Ertz injury), and if he's a top TE talent, it won't matter who else is on the roster in 2019 forward. I lean towards the top talent personally.
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I did agree it was a need for you guys & mentioned it so that's BS. Also, nothing was "debunked". Far, far from it.

The only thing we have is opinions on the matter, which is what debates are about. You needed to replace some backups TEs & took one in the 2nd.

I'm absolutely positive you could've taken a player who would likely be much more impactful & still filled the backup TE positions with decent options. That's my story. From your side, I hear either backup TE was a huge need (enough to take one in the 2nd) &/or it was done to block the Cowboys.

Bottom line, the proof will be in the pudding (we'll see how it shakes out). That's typically how debates get settled (with actual evidence).

 
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Football Jones said:
I did agree it was a need for you guys & mentioned it so that's BS. Also, nothing was "debunked". Far, far from it.

The only thing we have is opinions on the matter, which is what debates are about. You needed to replace some backups TEs & took one in the 2nd.

I'm absolutely positive you could've taken a player who would likely be much more impactful & still filled the backup TE positions with decent options. That's my story. From your side, I hear either backup TE was a huge need (enough to take one in the 2nd) &/or it was done to block the Cowboys.

Bottom line, the proof will be in the pudding (we'll see how it shakes out). That's typically how debates get settled (with actual evidence).
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From your record of "absolutely positives", I wouldn't really trust that.  Again, if you took him you would have been beaming and bragging.

This sounds like you've positioned yourself in a way where you can 'be right'.  If he's good, you say 'I liked him as a prospect".  If he doesn't put up numbers, you'll say he wasn't impactful.  I don't think any of our expectations are out of reach.  30 catches for 300 yards and 4 tds is perfectly acceptable, it is his use in the blocking game, matchups, spreading the field, etc. that will go greatly unnoticed by your casual glances.  After all, if you don't have the time or energy to look at other possible picks for us, I doubt you'll be watching how our "backup TE" is blocking.  Rico's numbers will surely be higher than Dallas', but he isn't near the player.

 
Deamon said:
From your record of "absolutely positives", I wouldn't really trust that.  Again, if you took him you would have been beaming and bragging.

This sounds like you've positioned yourself in a way where you can 'be right'.  If he's good, you say 'I liked him as a prospect".  If he doesn't put up numbers, you'll say he wasn't impactful.  I don't think any of our expectations are out of reach.  30 catches for 300 yards and 4 tds is perfectly acceptable, it is his use in the blocking game, matchups, spreading the field, etc. that will go greatly unnoticed by your casual glances.  After all, if you don't have the time or energy to look at other possible picks for us, I doubt you'll be watching how our "backup TE" is blocking.  Rico's numbers will surely be higher than Dallas', but he isn't near the player.
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I have a long, very good track record & I'm quite confident with my call on the Goedert pick.

You just don't get it on Goedert, do you? Again, I would've been pissed had we taken Goedert & missed out on Williams. With Rico's upside, I don't want to spend a 2nd round pick on a TE, especially in today's NFL with the salary cap. The days of spending valuable assets stockpiling players at the same position are over. Schultz in late, late round 4 was perfect for us (& would've been perfect for the Eagles).

You need to get depth with later picks & UDFAs as well as budget FA signings. At the same time, you better hit on the vast majority of your top draft picks & big FA signings & they better make an impact (at the very least, a starter).

 
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Football Jones said:
I have a long, very good track record & I'm quite confident with my call on the Goedert pick..

You just don't get it on Goedert, do you? Again, I would've been pissed had we taken Goedert & missed out on Williams. With Rico's upside, I don't want to spend a 2nd round pick on a TE, especially in today's NFL with the salary cap. The days of spending valuable assets stockpiling players at the same position are over. 

If you can get good depth with later picks & UDFAs as well as budget FA signings, ok, but you better hit on the vast majority of your top draft picks & big FA signings & they better make an impact (at the very least, a starter).
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Pretty sure you aren't in any position to comment on what does/doesnt win championships in today's nfl. Maybe instead we should be trusting Howie's moves far above Jerry's, and Goedert would have been a great asset for you. Unfortunately you won't be winning any super bowls with Rico as your tight end. But hey, as long as your moves make you happy, who needs playoff success? 

I look forward to you and all your dallas fan friends cheering for us again this year :)

 
Deamon said:
Pretty sure you aren't in any position to comment on what does/doesnt win championships in today's nfl. Maybe instead we should be trusting Howie's moves far above Jerry's, and Goedert would have been a great asset for you. Unfortunately you won't be winning any super bowls with Rico as your tight end. But hey, as long as your moves make you happy, who needs playoff success? 

I look forward to you and all your dallas fan friends cheering for us again this year :)
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Here's another statement I'm confident about...we're gaining on you. Howie has put you guys in a bind as far as the salary cap.

The NFL is a delicate balance between acquiring talent & managing the cap. Anybody can win one championship. In fact, I'd like every NFL team to eventually get one. It would be good for the league.

If you want to discuss this further, let's not do it here. Come over to our thread. We would be happy to debate anything you want.

 
Football Jones said:
Here's another statement I'm confident about...we're gaining on you. Howie has put you guys in a bind as far as the salary cap.

The NFL is a delicate balance between acquiring talent & managing the cap. Anybody can win one championship. In fact, I'd like every NFL team to eventually get one. It would be good for the league.

If you want to discuss this further, let's not do it here. Come over to our thread. We would be happy to debate anything you want.
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Lol. I'm happy that you're happy with gaining on us. 

Naw I'll pass. Your thread is boring and gets about one post a week. Maybe once you're relevant again your fairweather fans will return.  

Enjoy Rico. Goodbye. 

 
Football Jones said:
I'm done with this guys, It's silly, but what you said isn't true.

I said I didn't do any research to identify exactly who I would've taken & I'm not going to. That said, I did mention two guys off the top of my head that would likely have more of an impact (Williams & Guice). I also mentioned this is a deep class & there would be more than a few players who would make more of an impact than a backuo TE. 

I use this board because of my hobby. I found the Goedert pick really odd so I posted about it. I'll continue to post things I'm interested in. If it twerks a fan base, then it twerks a fan base. We should be able to have a civil debate about the topic. There's inherently going to be some snarkiness online, but the insults & stuff like that brings the board down. 
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And that's why when you gave those two names I followed up with this information:

"It's easy to see, that TE was a HUGE need for Philly, probably their biggest.  Burton played on 26.53% of the offensive snaps (300 snaps) and 67.54% (2nd on team) special teams snaps (308 snaps) and Celek played on 41.11% of the offensive snaps (465 snaps) and 33.33% on special teams (152 snaps).  I can't imagine why they would have draft Goedert.  Really no need for him.  They could have given the 1200+ snaps on offense and special teams they lost at the position to Ertz.  They could have drafted a Guard who would have seen maybe 200 or 300 snaps this year, maybe if he could be out Seumalo for the backup spot.  Or a RB who would have been splitting time with Ajayi, Clement and Sproles.  I mean Blount got 354 snaps last year.  Or they could have drafted a TE to replace Celek's 617 snaps or Burton's 608 snaps.  I can't imagine why they would have gone TE.  Really not a need for them."

And you doubled down with your silly G & RB draftees would have had a bigger impact.  Williams would be lucky to see the field this year.  It would literally take an injury to Wisniewski and an injury to Seumalo for him to see snaps.  Guice would have been splitting time with a Pro-Bowl RB and a guy who cemented himself as the teams 3rd down back.  Blount got 354 snaps last year, most of them prior to Ajayi being worked in the rotation.  Once Ajayi was worked in, Blounts snaps and carries were severely reduced.  Drafting a Guice would have been for AFTER next season when they let Ajayi go, but RBs are a dime a dozen, you can get another one pretty easily (as is evidenced by the Eagles landing Blount in mid-May last year, Clement as an UDFA and trading a 4th for Ajayi.  Why waste a 2nd on a RB?  It's pure stupidity.  Got any other picks that we can rip apart?  We'd be happy to do so.

 
Football Jones said:
We talk about all things NFL on this board. What impact Goedert will have in Philly (which is essentially what the topic was about), is certainly relevant. That said, the debate got sidetracked which isn't good.

Regardless, my suggestion is if you don't want to be involved in the topic at hand, skip over the posts. Or better yet, contribute to the thread.
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Don't you see that you made your point already, many many times? - you think the Eagles made a bad pick by taking a backup TE in Round 2, Eagle fans seem ok with the pick but you are a Cowboys fan so I guess it's your duty to tell them they are wrong.

At this point multiple people have expresses how this thread is being ruined by the back and forth on your particular issue - show some respect to the community and go troll the Eagles in the Eagles thread if you feel that's what you must do.

Some people may just be interested in discussing Goedert as Goedert (not if the Eagles should have picked him). You can say ignore those posts but it's impossible since its pages and pages.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Football Jones said:
We talk about all things NFL on this board. What impact Goedert will have in Philly (which is essentially what the topic was about), is certainly relevant. That said, the debate got sidetracked which isn't good.

Regardless, my suggestion is if you don't want to be involved in the topic at hand, skip over the posts. Or better yet, contribute to the thread.
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Don't you see that you made your point already, many many times? - you think the Eagles made a bad pick by taking a backup TE in Round 2, Eagle fans seem ok with the pick but you are a Cowboys fan so I guess it's your duty to tell them they are wrong.

At this point multiple people have expresses how this thread is being ruined by the back and forth on your particular issue - show some respect to the community and go troll the Eagles in the Eagles thread if you feel that's what you must do.

Some people may just be interested in discussing Goedert as Goedert (not if the Eagles should have picked him). You can say ignore those posts but it's impossible since its pages and pages.
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Imagine come August when drafts are heating up and someone has wade through this crap to find any relevant info.  I'm old enough to remember a time when the SP didn't tolerate this much pee.

 
LOL. Still at it. Even super-long posts with nothing to do about Goedert. Unbelievable.

You guys have no respect for the board, do you? I mean, NONE.

 
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