Mark Football
Footballguy
Didn't we see what he can do week 3? The question is, is he Aaron Hernandez (minus the murdering and such)? Can he be a weekly TE1 option with Ertz?
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TE Dallas Goedert, PHI (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bojang0301
- Start date
zamboni
Footballguy
Hard to tell if it was a one-week thing. Jeffery was out and you still have Aghelor there, so a lot of mouths to feed. And I'm not even including Sproles, who despite his advanced age, may get some looks if/when he returns.
Mark Football
Footballguy
But with all those mouths, he is going to find himself open, alot. And Wentz was looking for him. I like the chances at this point that week 3 won't be a one time thing. This guy is good.
dhockster
Footballguy
This may seem insignificant, but I actually think it may be a big factor in how successful Goedert is: Wentz was the one who recommended that the Eagles draft Goedert because he played against him in college. I think Wentz would love to see him be successful.
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah it was one of the worst landing spots for Goedert. If he had gone to Dallas he might be FF #1 TE right now.
Milkman
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
Mark Football
Footballguy
So he could be the #1 TE in FF but he couldn't have a Hernandez type impact?
My sentiments as well! Also, don’t discount the fact that Ertz does tend to get nicked up a lot. Wentz clearly leans on his TE’s, so I’m high on this kid, despite the presence of Wentz.
shadrap
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Dallas TEs: 11 targets, 8-65-0
Goedert: 10 targets, 8-77-1
Dallas' leading receiver Beasley only has 16 targets. They are a dumpster fire on offense right now.
Milkman
Footballguy
Tonycarpenter
Footballguy
Reading the Rookie Scouting Portfolio by Waldman he liked Dallas Goeddert as top TE in the group. He could be a high end starter. I think he had an 82pt overall rating by Waldman. 85 or maybe 90+ is elite.
Situation is not ideal. No one wants their guy to have to share targets etc. I would stress patience. I think Week 3 was a good indication of a bright future for the kid. PHI knows they have a talent and the QB seems to like him. Great. Will Jeffery stay healthy once he returns? Who knows. I would say Ridley had the WR2 better coming out party. His situation is somewhat similar. BUT ATL WR2 or PHI TE2 could still be better than OTHER TEAM TE1. Depending on your league and rules that should make him a weekly starter. He's not likely scoring 10 TDs and 900yds this year. Will PHI be able to keep up Targets to everyone? Look for that data. Maybe it's matchup specific. Have 2 good TEs isn't a bad thing. TB is loaded with WR/TE options and it's been positive for Fitzpatrick. OJHward seems to be passing Brate even after a big contract. My only point is that the situation today could change even though it appears to be long term. If you like Goedert as a talent hang on to him. Should you start him? That gets into Roster Spots and scoring settings and you should be able to figure that out via math equation. I don't think Goedert is a GRONK, HERNANDEz or Ertz. But he's probably better than a lot of others. Gisekicki in MIA is still Raw but a crazy athlete. Once Gronk retires...Who is left in Elite category? Kelce, Ertz maybe Engram, possibly Howard... who else has proven to be high end but consistent? historical data/targets are tools on the FBGs dite.
Situation is not ideal. No one wants their guy to have to share targets etc. I would stress patience. I think Week 3 was a good indication of a bright future for the kid. PHI knows they have a talent and the QB seems to like him. Great. Will Jeffery stay healthy once he returns? Who knows. I would say Ridley had the WR2 better coming out party. His situation is somewhat similar. BUT ATL WR2 or PHI TE2 could still be better than OTHER TEAM TE1. Depending on your league and rules that should make him a weekly starter. He's not likely scoring 10 TDs and 900yds this year. Will PHI be able to keep up Targets to everyone? Look for that data. Maybe it's matchup specific. Have 2 good TEs isn't a bad thing. TB is loaded with WR/TE options and it's been positive for Fitzpatrick. OJHward seems to be passing Brate even after a big contract. My only point is that the situation today could change even though it appears to be long term. If you like Goedert as a talent hang on to him. Should you start him? That gets into Roster Spots and scoring settings and you should be able to figure that out via math equation. I don't think Goedert is a GRONK, HERNANDEz or Ertz. But he's probably better than a lot of others. Gisekicki in MIA is still Raw but a crazy athlete. Once Gronk retires...Who is left in Elite category? Kelce, Ertz maybe Engram, possibly Howard... who else has proven to be high end but consistent? historical data/targets are tools on the FBGs dite.
I'm considering it. But Burton has to do well against TB, right? ETA: especially with Miller out!
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Tonycarpenter
Footballguy
I haven't seen the games or watched the tapes but my understanding RE: CHI offense is that Trubisky isn't cutting it. He's got enough talent to be a top 30QB or career backup but he's not learning/improving his weakness areas. Week 4 standard FBG scoring has Burton TE9 3 rec 29yds and 0.4 Tds. Goedert TE 20 Week 4 projections: 2rec 25yd 0.2 TDs. In the TRENDSPOTTING article TB DEF is worst passing D and TE's rank #1 against them if I read it correctly. Seems like Starting Burton makes sense for another week but you've grabbed a back-up plan so you have option to cut the cord if necessary
TripleThreat
Footballguy
same ... but starting Burton over Goedert. Encouraged by Wentz taking over but I'd like to see a touch more consistency before putting him in the lineup. Next week against Min could provide a nice matchup...
Milkman
Footballguy
It would have been completely different in Dallas. Goedert is not going to get the targets in Philly. In a round about way they hurt his career drafting him. It's a testament to his maturity that he didn't show any disappointment. Probably cost him 10's of millions of dollars.
Milkman
Footballguy
I know what happened last year. I think I know what would have happened if he had lasted one more pick and ended up in Dallas. They were starving for weapons and he would have been in the running for rookie of the year last year......top 30 dynasty asset.
Anyway have fun banking on an injury. He landed terrible. I called it last year and I was right.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Or you could look at it as he was drafted into a good offense with a pretty good young QB and gets to learn from a top TE. Then after 2020, the only TE ahead of him on the depth chart is released (with a cap savings of around $5mil) and 26 year old Goedert takes over.
Plus, we were assured the Cowboys weren't taking a TE - they had Rico.
ETA: Ertz didn't break out until he was 27, Brent Celek's final year. Goedert will be 27 in 2021, the final year of Ertz's contract if he plays it out.
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Milkman
Footballguy
Meh the point is if he lands on Dallas he would have been force fed targets, he fits perfectly with Dak, and he would have already broke out......he's that good. It was a real shame when the Eagles took him but such is life. He won't be startable this year or next without a significant injury to Ertz.
I'm fairly confident Dallas was taking him but no I'm not sure. I was sure when the Eagles took him that it was a bad landing spot. You can try to spin the situation however you want but he's a depreciating asset until he breaks out. He would have been quite valuable right now had he gone to Dallas. His value right now is nothing really because he has no path to starting on any of our FF teams for years to come.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
dhockster
Footballguy
It makes me laugh when Joe FF owner gets mad that x player wasn't taken by y team because he knows x player would've been great on y team and he takes credit for that prediction even though it can never be proven if that prediction was right or wrong.Milkman said:
As an Eagle's fan I am very happy he is on the Eagles. As a FF football owner, meh, there are plenty of other options at TE right now, and Goedart may be a very good FF option down the line.
Milkman
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
The Eagles selection of Goedert was a classic example of a team taking BPA on their draft board over reaching for a position of positional need. It also didn’t hurt that picking Goedert had to have chafed the Cowboys who would have had Goedert as both a BPA pick and filling a position of need. Goedert can be developed as both a stand alone asset, as insurance to an Ertz injury, and as a hedge against losing Ertz due to salary cap management and free agency.
The landing spot is a short term drag on his fantasy value; however, over the mid and longer term the cream rises to the top.
Bucs' Bruce Arians: 'You draft for need, you get fired'
The landing spot is a short term drag on his fantasy value; however, over the mid and longer term the cream rises to the top.
Bucs' Bruce Arians: 'You draft for need, you get fired'
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dhockster
Footballguy
You say this yet he is on a team that just had a TE catch the most balls in a season by a TE ever. Ertz is 5 years older than Goedert. When Goedert's contract is up in 3 years, the Eagles will have to decide if he is going to be their #1 TE. If he is, he is in a great situation presumably with Wentz in his prime. If not, then he can test the Free Agent market and go somewhere where he can be the #1 TE and go to a good situation. Just because he may have to wait his first 4 years to break out, doesn't mean his career is ruined.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Here's the funny thing that non-Eagles fans keep missing....TE WAS a position of need. Burton left and there was very little behind Ertz.
Goedert isn't going to put up TE1 numbers in Philly....but I wouldn't be even a little surprised to see him put up TE2 numbers this year and be fantasy relevent
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dhockster
Footballguy
Especially on an offense predicated on spreading the ball around. The more good options you have, the better the offense.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Yup, even during the '18 draft non-Eagles fans kept referring to TE as a luxury pick. I remember that entire off-season TE was in the in conversation of need. Sometimes (as evidenced in this thread) people have FFL blinders and forget GMs are running real NFL teams.
ruined Goedert's career! Sure, a high-powered offense with an innovative head coach in a TE-friendly system. Poor kid, I hope he can sleep at night.I view this as also a classic test case for dynasty FF players for the old opportunity vs talent debate.
Personally, I think in terms of your second sentence that cream will eventually rise to the top. But not easy to put that into action as it is to just say the words. I did draft Goedert on two teams last year but I passed him in some leagues, passed him for TE's I view as inferior in Hurst and Gesicki, because of the situation/opportunity.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Yup, even during the '18 draft non-Eagles fans kept referring to TE as a luxury pick. I remember that entire off-season TE was in the in conversation of need. Sometimes (as evidenced in this thread) people have FFL blinders and forget GMs are running real NFL teams.
NFL wise real football its a good move.....however, Im not waiting 3 years for him....fantasy wise its a terrible situation for him, barring an injury to Ertz
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah it kind of does. NFL careers are short. He won't get a huge contract when his rookie deal is up playing behind Ertz and he won't necessarily go to a good situation if he leaves.
Unless Ertz gets hurt Goederts career earnings and playing time have been severely diminished being drafted by the Eagles. Sure Ertz could get hurt but that's only thing that can help Goedert now.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
And I get that he didn't land in the perfect FFL situation. I'm responding to the "killed his career" that's come up twice.
Three years. Because that’s another downside to Goedert landing as a backup to a premier TE. He was as old of a rookie as you’ll find, turning 25 at the end of his rookie season. Barring an Ertz injury or ouster, Goedert will be 27-28 before he really gets an opportunity.
I think Goedert will be somewhere between TE 10-15 next year if Ertz is perfectly healthy for all 16 games. IMO he'll prove to be at least usable now.
As for his age I really wish this site would do a better job of getting accurate ages for players, see way to many mistakes made for something this simple, they got him listed as 7/3/95 but I believe 1/3/95 is accurate. Though to me I still consider him 24 for entirety of his second season which is not that bad.
Deamon
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
He's the only talented backup TE we've had that's become a free agent and left in recent memory? I'd say he'd be more the rule than the exception. If in 4 years he's as good as you say he is, and even puts up numbers Burton did behind Zach, I'd say someone will pay him very well.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
By then KC will be looking to replace Kelce...imagine the possibilities...long time to hang on waiting for an injury or trade....but talent usually pays off at some point.
He's the only talented backup TE we've had that's become a free agent and left in recent memory? I'd say he'd be more the rule than the exception. If in 4 years he's as good as you say he is, and even puts up numbers Burton did behind Zach, I'd say someone will pay him very well.
skinfanjon
Footballguy
Particularly supreme talent, which I believe Goedert to be. If you take situation out of it and just evaluate the talent of the players, Goedert slots in behind the big three of Kelce, Kittle, and Ertz for me. Howard, Henry, Ebron, and Hockenson (lofty for a rookie, I realize) are all right there, but personally I'd place him at the top of that tier.
As Meno alluded to, I think he'll prove to be a startable asset this year (he was already borderline by mid-season last year) and eventually that talent is going to shine through to bigger things. Frankly, I think he has the ability to leapfrog Ertz at some point in the next 1-2 years, though they cap each other's upside.
dhockster
Footballguy
One thing to think about when looking at last year's performance. Goedart played 18 games including playoffs. Wentz played in 11. All of Goedart's TD's and his 3 best receiving days came with Wentz as his QB. I think Wentz likes Goedart a lot and won't be afraid to feed him the ball if he has a favorable matchup.
Ertz had 116 catches and Goedart 33 last year. I see that being more like 80 Ertz and 60 Goedart this year.
Ertz had 116 catches and Goedart 33 last year. I see that being more like 80 Ertz and 60 Goedart this year.
