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RB Phillip Lindsay, IND (1 Viewer)

Denver is a dumpster fire.  He def should be in the running for rookie of the year considering he wasn't drafted.  Saquon will win it, but it's debatable.


1124/9, 78/629/4

vs

991/9, 33/230/1

okay, guy :lol:

ROY has absolutely nothing to do with draft position

 
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Cleveland sold out to shut him down. Brutal outing. 


losing sanders hurt. there were 10 men near-ish the line of scrimmage almost every snap. i am a lindsay fan so maybe i'm biased but it certainly felt like the browns' primary defensive assignment was keeping lindsay in check. and it worked!

i also think the broncos kicking a FG on 4th n 1 on the 4 down 4 with 4 minutes to go without any healthy CBs was.... foolish. they didn't even try to draw them offsides AND they still managed to get a delay of game penalty. lol.

 
:sadbanana:

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet 16m16 minutes ago

#Broncos Pro Bowl RB Phillip Lindsay’s season has come to an end. Source says the wrist injury he suffered last night is believed to be serious. He’ll have more tests this week, but his 2018 is done and the former UDFA is out for what would’ve been a feel-good Pro Bowl, too.

Lindsay is dealing with a possible scaphoid fracture, along with ligament damage. Unless additional tests present a more positive outlook, he faces a lengthy recovery.

 
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Just want to express how amazing this young man was this year. he averaged more yards per carry (just under 5.5) than every single RB in the top 10 (if not the NFL I just didn't check) that's more than CMC, Karma, Gurley, Barkley, Gordon, all of them. And yet he only averaged 12.8 carries per game, and never got 20 carries a single time. While maybe his coaches don't think he can carry it 25-30 times a game like Zeke/Bell can, I would absolutely give him 17-20 carries a game if that was my team. Or utilize him more in the passing game. He was just so explosive every time he touched the ball, so much fun to watch. I will pat myself on the back in that I bid my entire BBID allowance on him after week 1 in all 10 dynasty leagues I played in, and he was worth it and then some. Looking forward to what he does year two! 

 
Denver is a dumpster fire.  He def should be in the running for rookie of the year considering he wasn't drafted.  Saquon will win it, but it's debatable.
I Iike Lindsay a lot but rookie of the year is only debatable between Mayfield and Barkley - Lindsay is not in that mix. 

 
Iceman03 said:
I’m torn on the long term prospects here. I don’t think many who have had as much year one success as Lindsay have gone onto further major success but there is also this: https://twitter.com/russelljclay/status/1082849547829694464?s=21

Which would indicate that it’s mostly not a fluke when it comes to UDFA’s after they hit a certain threshold. 
59% of the sample having more than one 1000 yard rushing season is pretty good.

In a study I did only 40% of the sample had more than one 40 VBD season. That threshold is a bit higher than a 1000 yard rushing season I suppose, but generally a higher chance of repeating than the average for all players.

The average number of 40 VBD seasons for any RB is two.

The players who were drafted 188 or later (UDFA) who had one 40 VBD season averaged 2.2 40+ VBD seasons. So slightly better than the average of two. Many of the players in this sample did not do well in their rookie seasons, like Lindsay did.

Only 7 RB out of the top 150 who made my sample for the study were 24 year old rookies. 4.6% of them. So this puts Lindsay in rare company as well. David Johnson is another RB who was a 24 year old rookie who has been good since then though.

In any case I don't think what Lindsay did was a fluke. He is a good RB.

 
59% of the sample having more than one 1000 yard rushing season is pretty good.

In a study I did only 40% of the sample had more than one 40 VBD season. That threshold is a bit higher than a 1000 yard rushing season I suppose, but generally a higher chance of repeating than the average for all players.

The average number of 40 VBD seasons for any RB is two.

The players who were drafted 188 or later (UDFA) who had one 40 VBD season averaged 2.2 40+ VBD seasons. So slightly better than the average of two. Many of the players in this sample did not do well in their rookie seasons, like Lindsay did.

Only 7 RB out of the top 150 who made my sample for the study were 24 year old rookies. 4.6% of them. So this puts Lindsay in rare company as well. David Johnson is another RB who was a 24 year old rookie who has been good since then though.

In any case I don't think what Lindsay did was a fluke. He is a good RB.
He is also cheap comparatively speaking. I tried to shop him around where I owned him. Now I think I’m pivoting to buying him in leagues I don’t.

 
Gary Kubiak is going to make Lindsay a 1500 yard rushing machine in 2019. plus catches. what a great job the Broncos did in hiring the 2 best coaches out there!

 
He is also cheap comparatively speaking. I tried to shop him around where I owned him. Now I think I’m pivoting to buying him in leagues I don’t.
I have him and have also been shopping him because I have a lot of quality at RB right now.  Nobody wants him in my league at all.  It shocked me. 

 
:sadbanana:

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet 16m16 minutes ago

#Broncos Pro Bowl RB Phillip Lindsay’s season has come to an end. Source says the wrist injury he suffered last night is believed to be serious. He’ll have more tests this week, but his 2018 is done and the former UDFA is out for what would’ve been a feel-good Pro Bowl, too.

Lindsay is dealing with a possible scaphoid fracture, along with ligament damage. Unless additional tests present a more positive outlook, he faces a lengthy recovery.
How worried are we?

 
How worried are we?
Not as much as when I first posted that. Other reports were more optimistic, so we will see. 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/13357/phillip-lindsay

Coach Vance Joseph confirmed Phillip Lindsay will undergo wrist surgery and is done for the season.

Lindsay has ligament damage after getting hurt Christmas Eve night in Oakland. He's expected to be sidelined 4-6 months with a "serious" injury. Still, as long as all goes as planned, Lindsay should be ready well in advance of training camp next year and should head into 2019 as an early-round fantasy target in what is expected to be a new offense with Joseph likely on his way out. 

Wed, Dec 26, 2018 12:19:00 PM

Source: Andrew Mason on Twitter

 
The Athletic's Nicki Jhabvala reports Phillip Lindsay said he's "going with the flow of things" leading up to organized team activities.

Lindsay underwent wrist surgery at the end of the year and projects for 4-6 months of recovery. Still currently in a cast, it's unclear whether or not he'll be ready to fully participate in Denver's offseason workouts beginning mid-May. Lindsay himself mulled on the subject but didn't want to go into it. Even if he misses OTAs, he should be prepared for training camp at the end of July. Royce Freeman's participation and development will be worth monitoring if Lindsay misses any amount of time.

Source: Nicki Jhabvala on Twitter 

Feb 6 - 6:23 PM

 
Broncos coach Vic Fangio confirmed Phillip Lindsay (wrist) won't be ready for the start of OTAs.

Bryce Callahan (foot) will also be a spectator at what the Broncos call bonus minicamp, which is held leading up to the draft in late April. Lindsay is making progress in his recovery from wrist surgery, but probably won't see much if any work during OTAs. The goal is for Lindsay, who topped 1,000 yards rushing as an undrafted rookie last season, to be up and running by the time training camp opens this summer.

RELATED: 

Bryce Callahan

SOURCE: Ryan O'Halloran on Twitter

Mar 24, 2019, 10:05 AM

 
Wow, Dad tried to rehab his knee at home and delayed recovery/damaged it further.  Guy credits the Colorado medical staff for 'saving his knee', that can't be good for his long-term prospects.
How so?  That happened in 2012 and he just had an electrifying season at the NFL level where he showed no adverse affects and plenty of speed/quickness.  I just don't think what happened would be any more or less damaging at this point other than the fact he had an ACL tear. 

 
How so?  That happened in 2012 and he just had an electrifying season at the NFL level where he showed no adverse affects and plenty of speed/quickness.  I just don't think what happened would be any more or less damaging at this point other than the fact he had an ACL tear. 
Todd Gurley is showing lingering effects of the arthritis caused by trauma/surgery.  Lindsay had his surgery longer ago, but it didn't heal properly (at least initially).  How long will it be before that knee goes balky on him?

 
Todd Gurley is showing lingering effects of the arthritis caused by trauma/surgery.  Lindsay had his surgery longer ago, but it didn't heal properly (at least initially).  How long will it be before that knee goes balky on him?
True but my point was that the ACL tear was known and not something that is new.  The risks have already been factored in.  I don't think this news really changes his long term outlook. 

 
Todd Gurley is showing lingering effects of the arthritis caused by trauma/surgery.  Lindsay had his surgery longer ago, but it didn't heal properly (at least initially).  How long will it be before that knee goes balky on him?
Gurley’s arthritis (or the severity of it) was an atypical response to ACL surgery, despite what his trainer says. They’ve known about the issue for some time and that’s likely why they wouldn’t let team docs examine it during the pre-draft process. 

I think it’s a mistake to assume ACL tears will lead to the issues that Gurley is dealing with. 

As for Lindsay’s knee, I don’t think we really know anything. If you’re really conservative, it might make sense to a avoid him or move him for equal value. 

 
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Concept Coop said:
Gurley’s arthritis (or the severity of it) was an atypical response to ACL surgery, despite what his trainer says. 
This couldnt be more false. Arthritis will happen in 70-80% of common patients who have an acl repair. its reasonable to expect an elite athlete to be more likely to get this sooner and at a greater severity. Of course every patient is different and it's clear Gurley is on the wrong end of the bell curve.

a recent study showed 75% of regular folks getting arthritis within 10-15 years. If Lindsay was a regular guy we would expect him to have arthritis within the next 3 years. Hes an elite athlete...  so I would imagine this could happen sooner than expected. This could have been a factor in him going undrafted (not the sole factor)

 
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This couldnt be more false. Arthritis will happen in 70-80% of common patients who have an acl repair. its reasonable to expect an elite athlete to be more likely to get this sooner and at a greater severity. Of course every patient is different and it's clear Gurley is on the wrong end of the bell curve.

a recent study showed 75% of regular folks getting arthritis within 10-15 years. If Lindsay was a regular guy we would expect him to have arthritis within the next 3 years. Hes an elite athlete...  so I would imagine this could happen sooner than expected. This could have been a factor in him going undrafted (not the sole factor)
Gurley’s knee was raising red flags 2 years after the repair. His situation is unique, relative to other professional athletes. My only point was that we don’t need to change the way we view ACL tears because of Todd Gurley. And we don’t even know how he will be impacted moving forward.

 
Gurley’s knee was raising red flags 2 years after the repair. His situation is unique, relative to other professional athletes. My only point was that we don’t need to change the way we view ACL tears because of Todd Gurley. And we don’t even know how he will be impacted moving forward.
Yes, 2 years is unusual, we agree on that. And this is why I am high on Henderson; Gurleys knee condition is significant evidence that he had cartilaginous/meniscus damage along with his acl. 

Lindsay seems to be following a more typical pathway for post OP acl. If I owned I'd sell while I could

 
Gotta love the chip on his shoulder but buyer beware.  You can't discount a previous injury like that, you just can't.  He runs hard too, and is a smaller back.  Not sure how you can't factor that and his injury history into the equation.  Might get decent value as a result of the roll of your dice, though.  Definitely have a backup plan in place.

 
Gotta love the chip on his shoulder but buyer beware.  You can't discount a previous injury like that, you just can't.  He runs hard too, and is a smaller back.  Not sure how you can't factor that and his injury history into the equation.  Might get decent value as a result of the roll of your dice, though.  Definitely have a backup plan in place.
The problem is nobody is willing to pay close to full value for Lindsay.  I have him and have shopped him to some really RB needy teams and nobody wants him.  I think at this point he has more value in keeping him that giving him up for pennies on the dollar. Now you may find someone willing to spend but I haven't seen that in any of my leagues. 

 
The problem is nobody is willing to pay close to full value for Lindsay.  I have him and have shopped him to some really RB needy teams and nobody wants him.  I think at this point he has more value in keeping him that giving him up for pennies on the dollar. Now you may find someone willing to spend but I haven't seen that in any of my leagues. 
What are you calling "full value" here?  He returned me a future 1st round pick leading into the fantasy playoffs last year, and the combination of injury, coaching change and reports that Freeman has been killing it have affected his value ever since.

You may like him more than specific guys or draft picks, but his value is what you can sell him for, the same as any other player.

 
Gotta love the chip on his shoulder but buyer beware.  You can't discount a previous injury like that, you just can't.  He runs hard too, and is a smaller back.  Not sure how you can't factor that and his injury history into the equation.  Might get decent value as a result of the roll of your dice, though.  Definitely have a backup plan in place.
I think it depends on how far out we’re taking. I love Lindsay’s talent, but am only viewing him as a 3 year asset. Anything I get above and beyond that is icing, anything less and I’m taking a hit. I’m not discounting him for the ACL. Unlike Gurley and Ajayi, we haven’t heard degenerative/chronic whispers. In that sense, Lindsay carries no more risk than Chubb, Cook, Guice, Watson, H. Henry, K. Allen, etc. 

 
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What are you calling "full value" here?  He returned me a future 1st round pick leading into the fantasy playoffs last year, and the combination of injury, coaching change and reports that Freeman has been killing it have affected his value ever since.

You may like him more than specific guys or draft picks, but his value is what you can sell him for, the same as any other player.
I think he will provide more value in my lineup than what I can get in return.  I have Chubb, Aaron Jones, Kerryon, and Lindsay in my dynasty league (keep 15) and I would like to move one of those RB's prior to freeze time.  I have put him on the block and nobody has any interest in him.  I am fine keeping him but would rather move him to open up one of my 15 roster spots.  I just cannot even get a nibble. 

 
I think he will provide more value in my lineup than what I can get in return.  I have Chubb, Aaron Jones, Kerryon, and Lindsay in my dynasty league (keep 15) and I would like to move one of those RB's prior to freeze time.  I have put him on the block and nobody has any interest in him.  I am fine keeping him but would rather move him to open up one of my 15 roster spots.  I just cannot even get a nibble. 
Only a fool would pay your asking price today.  I'd be willing to take a flyer on him at steep discount, but in the places where I own him, I'm resigned to just riding it out and hoping for the best.  Odds are we saw his career best year already.

 
Only a fool would pay your asking price today.  I'd be willing to take a flyer on him at steep discount, but in the places where I own him, I'm resigned to just riding it out and hoping for the best.  Odds are we saw his career best year already.
He didn’t even tell us what his asking price was.

 
Only a fool would pay your asking price today.  I'd be willing to take a flyer on him at steep discount, but in the places where I own him, I'm resigned to just riding it out and hoping for the best.  Odds are we saw his career best year already.
I never provided an asking price so I am not sure what you are basing this on.  I actually said nobody has any interest in him at all whether it is a steep discount or not. 

He showed much better than Freeman and Booker last year.  It was night and day difference when they were on the field.  There is a decent chance he is in a time share and loses touches but if he gets 15-18 touches a game he will be similar to what he did last year.    His only risk is playing time and the RBBC possibility.  If he were to be guaranteed the touches he would be an easy RB1 (top 12 RB). 

 
I never provided an asking price so I am not sure what you are basing this on.  I actually said nobody has any interest in him at all whether it is a steep discount or not. 

He showed much better than Freeman and Booker last year.  It was night and day difference when they were on the field.  There is a decent chance he is in a time share and loses touches but if he gets 15-18 touches a game he will be similar to what he did last year.    His only risk is playing time and the RBBC possibility.  If he were to be guaranteed the touches he would be an easy RB1 (top 12 RB). 
I would say being more than 2 months behind schedule for recovery from a broken wrist is a pretty big ####### risk.

 
they're forecast to be one of the worst teams in the NFL this season. I own PL in a dynasty league, I'm trying to sell for many of the reasons posted here - health, one year flash in the pan potential - Freeman, etc.

and from Dr Dan's post +  last seasons debacle re: Gurley,  I think it's pretty clear the Rams will have a new guy toting the rock this season - D. Henderson. Reminds me of LJ behind Priest Holmes you knew he was going to pass him by at some point.

 
they're forecast to be one of the worst teams in the NFL this season. I own PL in a dynasty league, I'm trying to sell for many of the reasons posted here - health, one year flash in the pan potential - Freeman, etc.

and from Dr Dan's post +  last seasons debacle re: Gurley,  I think it's pretty clear the Rams will have a new guy toting the rock this season - D. Henderson. Reminds me of LJ behind Priest Holmes you knew he was going to pass him by at some point.
Agreed.  My gut says in 20 years, they will make a movie titled Invincible 2.  Perhaps they can get Mark Wahlberg's son to play the part of Lindsay.  I will take my chances on Royce 4 rounds later.

 
they're forecast to be one of the worst teams in the NFL this season. I own PL in a dynasty league, I'm trying to sell for many of the reasons posted here - health, one year flash in the pan potential - Freeman, etc.
I really don't get why people are sleeping on Denver. This is a team with potentially the NFL's best defense, and a solid, and potentially very good, running game. I think they could win the AFC West if a thing or two break right. Think last season's Ravens or Bears. 

Lindsay is the most dynamic player they have on offense, Freeman isn't going to just go away, but he brings a lot less to the offense. There is likely room for both to be useful. Lindsay as an RB2, and Freeman as an RB3. Like 1,000-10 for Lindsay and 700-5 for Freeman.

 
I don't think the OP understands this concept.
Incorrect.  I was talking big picture and stating that there was zero interest in Lindsay in any of my leagues on the trade market.  Nobody was willing to even make a low ball offer let alone a current full value offer (whatever that may be).  My point is that he is more valuable to just keep than accept any pennies on the dollar low ball interest. 

 
I would say being more than 2 months behind schedule for recovery from a broken wrist is a pretty big ####### risk.
It has always been said he would be ready for training camp.  Training camp hasn't started so not sure why you say he is 2 months behind schedule.  Also, I am not worried about a wrist injury from a guy that is build on speed.  Nothing wrong with legs at this point.  The wrist doesn't prevent conditioning. 

 
Gally said:
It has always been said he would be ready for training camp.  Training camp hasn't started so not sure why you say he is 2 months behind schedule.  Also, I am not worried about a wrist injury from a guy that is build on speed.  Nothing wrong with legs at this point.  The wrist doesn't prevent conditioning. 
My skepticism is based on Dr Gene and Cecil. It was supposed to be a 4-6 month recovery. He’s past 6 months now and still isn’t cleared to hold/catch a football. They also said it was considered a very extreme form of the injury and one that he likely won’t every make a full recovery in strength or range of motion from. Also I’m skeptical because he’s small and has to compete with a very talented RB on an unimpressive offense. 

 
Phillip Lindsay (wrist) said he will be "100 percent" for the start of Broncos training camp on Thursday.

"In my mind I'm ready," Lindsay said. The sophomore back did allow that he could be eased in slowly. Speaking early last month, coach Vic Fangio said he expected Lindsay to be ready. Lindsay is atop the depth chart, but he could face a stronger challenge from fellow sophomore Royce Freeman than he did as a rookie.

SOURCE: Mike Klis on Twitter

Jul 15, 2019, 1:58 PM ET
 
In this century, only 27 rookies have run for 1,000 yards. only two of those players (Adrian Peterson, Clinton Portis) averaged more yards per carry. 

Broncos have M. Munchak as Oline coach, he's from the Steelers, been there since 2014. They've had a DOMINANT line the past few years under him. scary to think, but Lindsay could be even MORE effective and more productive than last year.

for every can't miss guy like S. Barkley, there's a highway littered with guys like Trent Richardson. Where does Royce freeman fit? I don't think just because he was a prolific college RB that it will spill over to the NFL. It's going to be hard as heck for him to beat out Lindsay at this point.

 

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